KickStarter Songs of Syx - City Builder/Grand Strategy game with Emphasis on Scale

[Tweed]

I'd totally forgotten about this game, now I want it since it's still alive.

 

[Humbaba]

So how does this compare to DF? Is it less complex? More complete? Will it ever be complete? What about the bugs? Are there cats?

 

[covr]

Apples and oranges. SoS is an actual game, not some set of random complex systems glued together like DF. It's a pleasant mix of old Sierra strategies like Caesar or Pharaoh with Total War, Civilization + a lot of individual & original flavour. It is more complete than DF in terms of actual gameplay, but the UI an balancing still needs some love. Very fun an difficult game already, with more content than every citybuilder released in last decade.

No cats, but you can play as pig-people and enslave elves, keep them in labour camps and feed cannibals with elven meat.

If you are looking for more DF related game Odd Realm might be also something for you. It is cheap, fun and under rapid development.

 

[covr]

Oh, SoS should hit 1.0 version in 2024/2025 with some future full blown expansion, as dev is against releasing small DLCs

 

[Axioms]

Apples and oranges. SoS is an actual game, not some set of random complex systems glued together like DF. It's a pleasant mix of old Sierra strategies like Caesar or Pharaoh with Total War, Civilization + a lot of individual & original flavour. It is more complete than DF in terms of actual gameplay, but the UI an balancing still needs some love. Very fun an difficult game already, with more content than every citybuilder released in last decade.

No cats, but you can play as pig-people and enslave elves, keep them in labour camps and feed cannibals with elven meat.

If you are looking for more DF related game Odd Realm might be also something for you. It is cheap, fun and under rapid development.

They'd only be cannibals if the ones eating elves were also elves.

 

[covr]

That's even better.

 

[SimTrY]

This is a fantastic city builder game but my whole game concept changed after hitting 500 pops since at that point you can start ruling provinces and taxing them. This means I had to shift more into bureaucracy and less into collecting resources. Also the bug men while reproducing fast are not really good for intellectual work so I may have to reconsider who the master race is in my Mushroom Kingdom.

well i think the game is designed forr you to not be able to gather every resource and produce every single type of good. its designed that way to enable trade and tributes from the towns of your region. i tried to do exactly that (mine every resource, produce every good) and my city started to fail and production of necessary items started to plumet. now i just import stuff i don't make (bread, drink, paper) and get tributes for resources i need (ore, coal. stone).

 

[Joggerino]

This is a fantastic city builder game but my whole game concept changed after hitting 500 pops since at that point you can start ruling provinces and taxing them. This means I had to shift more into bureaucracy and less into collecting resources. Also the bug men while reproducing fast are not really good for intellectual work so I may have to reconsider who the master race is in my Mushroom Kingdom.

well i think the game is designed forr you to not be able to gather every resource and produce every single type of good. its designed that way to enable trade and tributes from the towns of your region. i tried to do exactly that (mine every resource, produce every good) and my city started to fail and production of necessary items started to plumet. now i just import stuff i don't make (bread, drink, paper) and get tributes for resources i need (ore, coal. stone).

Yep. More particularly you need to use every bonus you can and especially the racial bonuses for maximum productivity. When we're talking about having to upkeep thousands of people (food, furniture, clothing) it can really add up. You kinda get railroaded with the admin generation too, since you'll need a ton of it.

 

[None]

A new era dawns. The greatest gaming event of 1999 is here. Song of Syx has a new patch.

Oh, where to begin, it's been so long, and I've forgotten what I've done, and lost the patch-notes in a game of poker. But basically, it's been all about the world map, and adding a sort of 4X experience to go along with the city builder. We now have proper generation, proper factions that are alive, proper everything world related on steroids!
No video this time, my mic broke. But here's the thumbnail:

Here's a neighbouring king, and his heirs. He will like you differently depending on his characteristics, and your history together. You can interact with him through diplomacy.

You can also send emissaries to keep him and his heirs happy. If he makes a fuss, assassination is an option.

You now have much greater control over your realm, with proper buildings, shamelessly ripped from the total war franchise (before they had the good sense of streamlining it).

I've also added a few things to the city building experience, features, fixes and quality of life. Orchards for instance.

There's still a bit missing that I didn't have time to add to the World. Most notably anything regarding armies. That's on the to-do list for the next version.

Next up, I want to do another polish update, focusing on the city map. I have a lot of plans, you can see them here: Trello

Overall, I'm exited, we're closing in on 1.0. I have only nobles left as a major feature, and of course a mountain of polish and balance.

EA 64 has to be checked out manually in steam for now, as a “beta”. I'm very curious about the balance late game, and how the AI conducts diplomacy and decides to take you on, so let me know, I'll be here, and on the Discord

The previous version is now available as the demo, for those of you who are still waiting for a sale or whatnot, so have a look at that.

Now go forth and conquer the world!

New update, currently as a beta. Mostly world map stuff.

 

[deama]

Does anyone know of a mod that allows you to expand the current map/kingdom without having to create a seperate one on a different map?
Maybe something like stitch 2 maps into 1 big one, and then 3, 4, etc... as you get bigger.

 

[Latelistener]

Road to 1.0
What's coming in V65 and the road to 1.0 release

My dear despots. Apologies for the radio silence. I have not checked the steam boards for a month, because I've been spending all my time on programming, and while doing so I've become more and more anxious about coming here. Of course I've been available on email and on the discord.

I'm now half-way through the next update V65, code name “water”. In reality it is more about polish, getting as many mechanics into a 1.0 state as possible.

So far each update has been about adding some new mechanics, while trying to maintain the game in some kind of playable state, but spending as little time as possible on balance and polish. Now, focus has shifted to refinement and making the mechanics that are in, good as a whole. I am happy with the raw potential the game now has.

I have now finished up the overworld mechanics into a state that I wished would have been in V64. But there was no time, (and it's always good to let things mature and collect feedback). UI reconstruction has been the focus, so that you can truly use all the mechanics present regarding AI faction management and building your realm. Manual trade agreements have been re-added. Trade in general has been the secret to expansion for very long, mostly because it's a semi-exploit. I'm now deferring trade to a later stage, and the game will play like a classic colony sim for the first part. I've completely remade the world buildings to make it more interesting and have a sense of progression. There are now many more “Special” buildings that upgrade your kingdom as a whole, meaning the more regions you have, the more specialization, and the greater the kingdom as a whole. The AI aggressiveness will of course scale according to that.

The AI also communicates with you. From time to time they will send proposals, such as trade agreements, but also requests and gifts. For instance, a disgruntled king might demand of you to give up a region or face their armies.

As for the city-builder, I'm now getting started on that part, and I have big changes in mind. For instance, I will separate services such as wells and baths, so that they will use both. Wells will have a small radius while the bath will have a huge one. That will force you to build a city centre as the city grows, and allow final results to look more organic. I will also separate the entertainment building such as the arena into “fighting pits” and Colosseum. Fighting pits you will have to spread out everywhere in your city, while a single Colosseum covers mostly your whole city. Similar to this, I'm planning shrines vs temples. Food stalls (replacing eatery) vs restaurants (replacing canteen). I also want a new building “bazaar” with all equipment and furniture for you citizens. Housing will have more precise settings, allowing you to easily set up districts that do not burn down in brawls.

As for the balance, I want a streamlined experience that lets you set your own pace and difficulty. If you want a cosy little city-builder, then you can have it by expanding carefully and slowly, and if you want a challenge worthy of 100s of hours, then you must expand and face the challenges.

As for the water, I'll keep it simple. A bridge will be needed to clear deep water. You will be able to remove/add shallow water around the natural bodies of water. For irrigation, you will need a water pump, and connect canals to it. It will in other words cost you some manpower. Water table will be scrapped, but settling close to water will be equally important.

Visually, I'm happy to announce that I've gotten help from a very talented artist, and all the icons of the game have ben redrawn to perfection.

I will also dive into battle balance this time around, and make sure its well balanced. Speaking of which, I've added a very moddable equipment system with different kinds of damage and protection. I have added slash, blunt and pierce damage types, with equipment to go with it. I will leave “magic” to the modding community.

release of the game is approaching. Apart from the 1.0 quality of existing features, I still have the following to add:

• nobles (will include a whole set of posh buildings)
• military (fix AI issues on the battlefield) Perhaps add commanders to divisions, more training options, royal guard)
• Tutorial
• Campaign
• Zombies
• Atrifacts
• Sound overhaul

There are a pile of suggestions on top of this, and I know many of you might be waiting for this or for that. Boats and harbours for instance. Thing is, I do agree that the game would be better with boats, but the amount of work needed for this does not outweigh the benefit currently. Depending on how long I will work on the game, it might still make it into the pipeline.

With 1.0, I envision a certain degree of quality. It's not the end of the game at all, but it's a shift in my work, and I'll have to be more careful not to break things, and keep the balance of the game. Raw progress will be slower.

My plan on building and maintaining momentum for 1.0 release is you guys. I want to make the community come alive, have moderators, events, competitions, and most importantly modders. Taking advantage of you modders have been the plan from the start, as you create the best stuff. Vanilla will be as good as I can make it, but mods will make it excel. I hope to work more closely with you and guide you through the process, and hopefully present you with rewards and opportunities. I plan on opening up the entire code base for you to play around with, make changes, and finally release mods from it.

If you would be interested of helping me with the community, please let me know!


When the big 1.0 release might be, I do not know yet. It's always been 4 years now, but I do see the horizon within a year.

Apparently the release is on the horizon and considering that the author is going to raise the price to $30 it's probably the best time to buy it.

It will also most likely not receive discounts.

Will the game be priced differently during and after Early Access?​

“Yes, the game is currently $25 US, and this will most probably be increased to $30 US upon full release. There will be no sales of the game in EA, and most probably none after AE either.”

If you're in a country with reduced regional pricing, the price will go up twice since the author didn't upgrade to the new regional pricing introduced by Valve last year yet. So it will be a new equivalent of $30.

 

[Latelistener]

I have a very positive impression from the "unlimited demo", but I don't know what game I could compare SoS to. I'm not that experienced in colony sims or city builders, so I'm sure someone else will explain it better.

From my impressions though, it doesn't have the depth of colony sim elements of DF and also doesn't have the depth of some of the city builders like Farthest Frontier for example.

I didn't notice food being spoiled. In FF you have to preserve food. Agriculture is also done better in FF (I'd say it's one of the highlights of this game).

But FF is a classic city builder. It doesn't have the scale and I didn't notice much of colony sim elements. Also, the performance in FF is terrible once your city grows. I have 60fps in SoS with 5k citizens and it only drops on max (25x) speed.

There are also suppose to be massive Total War style battles, but I wasn't able to get to them yet.

 

[deama]

Godamnit he still hasn't added the kingdom expansion! I want to build even bigger cities ffs!

 

[covr]

What kingdom expansion? You can already have big fucking cities.

 

[deama]

What kingdom expansion? You can already have big fucking cities.

Like cities skylines, the more your city grows (level ups) you can end up unlocking extra tiles and have even more space to build.
Also, no, it's not big enough for me, I basically want the option to build on half the overworld map at least. I've been waiting for something like this for 15+ years at this point and this bastard dev is teasing so godamn hard.

 

[Joggerino]

Exciting news. When I played it few months ago my biggest issue was how bad the overland gameplay was (managing your "empire"). As a pure city builder it was fantastic.

 

[SimTrY]

Exciting news. When I played it few months ago my biggest issue was how bad the overland gameplay was (managing your "empire"). As a pure city builder it was fantastic.

Played the recent update and they've changed how taxation of your regions work. you can now buy regions from other kingdoms if you make enough money but then the diplomatic upkeep to keep the newly gained regions afloat costs quite a bit of manpower on your end. but that being said what the dev has added, despite being quite surface level diplomatic stuff (moreso busy work than anything really complex), overall adds another layer, albeit thin, of depth.

I have a very positive impression from the "unlimited demo", but I don't know what game I could compare SoS to. I'm not that experienced in colony sims or city builders, so I'm sure someone else will explain it better.

From my impressions though, it doesn't have the depth of colony sim elements of DF and also doesn't have the depth of some of the city builders like Farthest Frontier for example.

I didn't notice food being spoiled. In FF you have to preserve food. Agriculture is also done better in FF (I'd say it's one of the highlights of this game).

But FF is a classic city builder. It doesn't have the scale and I didn't notice much of colony sim elements. Also, the performance in FF is terrible once your city grows. I have 60fps in SoS with 5k citizens and it only drops on max (25x) speed.

There are also suppose to be massive Total War style battles, but I wasn't able to get to them yet.

The impressive thing about SoS is that its able to incorperate alot of mechanics what other city building, resource management, kingdom management games have. its ambitious in what its trying to achive and succeed somewhat. buy due to the sheer number of mechanics it implements from other games, it has to compromise on the mechanical depth of each of the element it incorporates into the game. take the total war style battles, as it is now there's not really much strategy involved in playing out the battles, but its a neat little distraction fro the constant management of your city and kingdom and its enough to keep things interesting.

all in all its a good foundation to be further expanded by the dev himself, or through community made mods.

 

[None]

What kingdom expansion? You can already have big fucking cities.

Like cities skylines, the more your city grows (level ups) you can end up unlocking extra tiles and have even more space to build.
Also, no, it's not big enough for me, I basically want the option to build on half the overworld map at least. I've been waiting for something like this for 15+ years at this point and this bastard dev is teasing so godamn hard.

SoS but you're also managing the intermediate transportation links between your cities, all on the same instance, would be so hyper-autistic I think it could be outlawed due to the deaths it would cause.

But I'd play that.

 

[deama]

Played the recent update and they've changed how taxation of your regions work. you can now buy regions from other kingdoms if you make enough money but then the diplomatic upkeep to keep the newly gained regions afloat costs quite a bit of manpower on your end. but that being said what the dev has added, despite being quite surface level diplomatic stuff (moreso busy work than anything really complex), overall adds another layer, albeit thin, of depth.

Are you able to build stuff yourself on the regions you buy? Like in your capitol normally?

 

[SimTrY]

Played the recent update and they've changed how taxation of your regions work. you can now buy regions from other kingdoms if you make enough money but then the diplomatic upkeep to keep the newly gained regions afloat costs quite a bit of manpower on your end. but that being said what the dev has added, despite being quite surface level diplomatic stuff (moreso busy work than anything really complex), overall adds another layer, albeit thin, of depth.

Are you able to build stuff yourself on the regions you buy? Like in your capitol normally?

you cannot build up the city like how you do on you capital. you can rather allocate points to build corresponding resources (farms, mines, orchards), and other buildings (military outpost, army recruitment offices, etc) on the capital of each region you own. what ever resource generator you build up will be sent to the capital of your empire (the city that you've buillt) as a form of tax for each region. its all done through menus on the overworld map.

 

[Latelistener]

The impressive thing about SoS is that its able to incorperate alot of mechanics what other city building, resource management, kingdom management games have. its ambitious in what its trying to achive and succeed somewhat. buy due to the sheer number of mechanics it implements from other games, it has to compromise on the mechanical depth of each of the element it incorporates into the game. take the total war style battles, as it is now there's not really much strategy involved in playing out the battles, but its a neat little distraction fro the constant management of your city and kingdom and its enough to keep things interesting.

all in all its a good foundation to be further expanded by the dev himself, or through community made mods.

That was my impression and I don't mind it. Dev took best elements from other games to create something of his own.

The important thing is that it runs good while having thousands of citizens. Means you can add a lot of stuff on top. Hopefully he'll just keep working on it after release.

 

[kris]

This is the kind of game I would have loved a couple of years ago when I could sit down a whole weekend playing. Now that I have a small child I just can't put in the effort needed to play it properly.

 

[SimTrY]

This is the kind of game I would have loved a couple of years ago when I could sit down a whole weekend playing. Now that I have a small child I just can't put in the effort needed to play it properly.

You can still play it anytime you want. get the demo oon steam and just dick around for a while.

Note on the Demo on Steam : Devman is a cool dude so the demobuild is just a previous version of the game. so its still the full game but instead of being the latest build, its one previous.

 

[Galdred]

How micro-heavy is the mid game? Doesn't it turn into a micro management hell?

 

[SimTrY]

How micro-heavy is the mid game? Doesn't it turn into a micro management hell?

Depends on what you mean by micro heavy. pretty much after you set up the buildings, it just runs it self.