Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[Null Null]

One really good module is 'The Sect', by Ben Jockisch. You really feel like you're playing an old GB game, IMHO, but you have to be able to use hacks.

 

[octavius]

Older (I haven't played all the newest ones) FRUA modules I can recommend:
Paladin
Paladin 2: The Merchant League
City of Gold
Heart of Darkness
Magic of the Savage Frontier (kind of an unoffical sequel to Treasures of the Savage Frontier)

Any modules by Ben ProphetSword Sanderfer made after 1994 (his earliest modules are good too, but due to being made by an older version of FRUA they are now buggy) and by Ray Dyer should be worth playing.

You can find them all at http://frua.rosedragon.org/modulelist/file.php

 

[Jaesun]

One really good module is 'The Sect', by Ben Jockisch. You really feel like you're playing an old GB game, IMHO, but you have to be able to use hacks.

Yeah. I played a little of that. It was actually quite good. I liked what I did play of it.

 

[octavius]

BROS.... WE HAD THOT THIS WAS GOIN TO BE A ROTINE MISSON, GARDING A CARAVAN OF MYTHRLA TRAVLING FROM CITADEL ADBAR IN TEH FAR NORTH. BUT NO SOONER DID WE BROS SIGN ON TO PRVIDE PROTECTION TEHN THE DORF'S KING HAARBROM HIMSELF CALLED US TO THE TOP OF THE TALLEST TOWER IN TEH FORT. LOL!

For a moment I thought BLOBERT had wriggled his way out of my Ignore list.

 

[Jagged Appliance]

BROS.... WE HAD THOT THIS WAS GOIN TO BE A ROTINE MISSON, GARDING A CARAVAN OF MYTHRLA TRAVLING FROM CITADEL ADBAR IN TEH FAR NORTH. BUT NO SOONER DID WE BROS SIGN ON TO PRVIDE PROTECTION TEHN THE DORF'S KING HAARBROM HIMSELF CALLED US TO THE TOP OF THE TALLEST TOWER IN TEH FORT. LOL!

For a moment I thought BLOBERT had wriggled his way out of my Ignore list.

 

[Jaesun]

BLOBERT's my BRO. <3

 

[Jaesun]

FFS! How many platinum pieces equal gold pieces? I hate this multiple currency crap. And 1000GP to train? Ouch.

 

[octavius]

5 Gold = 1 Platinum

 

[Deuce Traveler]

5 Gold = 1 Platinum

And 10 Silver = 1 Gold
2 Electrum = 1 Gold
10 Copper = 1 Silver

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Time for some party planning now that I'm nearing the end of Curse of the Azure Bonds (which has been surprisingly good; far better than I remembered).

I'm currently rolling with a party composed of:

Human Fighter
Human Ranger
Dwarven Fighter/Thief
Human Cleric
Elven Fighter/Mage
Human Mage

Obviously, the Fighter/Mage is out when it's time to move onto Secret, as she's pretty much hit both her level caps and thus has little room for advancement, but the fate of the rest of the crew is less clear.

I definitely want to dual-class the Fighter and Ranger, probably to a spellcasting class, but I'm not certain when to do so. Dualing the Fighter to a Mage in Secret of the Silver Blades would be cool, but given my lack of knowledge about Pools I don't know if a 13/X Fighter/Mage is the way to roll. Said build seems adequete, as it has all of the Fighter's d10 hit dice rolls, two attacks-per-round, and is possible to achieve within Secret. But this may not be enough for PoD's ridiculous encounters balanced for extreme powergaming, in which the additional 40-60 HP from Fighter level ups past name-level could be crucial.

The Ranger is a bit more tricky, because he only recieves 2 APR at level 15; the cap for all classes in SotSB besides Thieves and I'm not certain I want a Thief.

Not certain what to do with the Cleric and Mage; Dualing from a casting class to a non-casting class is almost always a bad move, especially in epic levels where casters benefit the most from additional level ups. Perhaps keep them around for a little bit in Secret, than phase them out and replace them with Fighters/Rangers/Paladins made to dual-class into casters?

Are Thieves even useful in SotSB or PoD? I know all the Gold Box games have some amount of scripted interactions for thieving characters but, as far as I recall, SotSB and PoD have a paucity of enemies vulnerable to backstabs; I don't think Pools has anything besides Drow, because everything else is either larger than man-sized or one of the undead.

Any advice from the Gold Box long-run mastermen?

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I'm probably not remembering this correctly, but I think that a lot of armor restricts spellcasting, so unless you are going to have a fighter/magic-user with elven chain the entire time, dual-classing in this manner may not be the way to go, especially when you find some great bracers later that are equivalent in protection to elven chain. I suggest the following at the start of SoTSB:

Human Paladin
Human Fighter/Thief
- Thief at start, immediately dual-classed to Fighter. This is so you can backstab later, which can be useful when pulled off correctly. Pick Locks can be replaced by the magic-users later via the Knock spell
Human Ranger/Cleric
- Cleric at start, dual-class to Ranger once your Fighter/Thief and Cleric/Fighter have enough levels to survive. Now you have a ranger with back-up cleric spells that can help support the team with buffs and healing
Human Cleric/Fighter (consider starting this one at Curse)
- Fighter at start and switch over to Cleric right away. Now you have a cleric that can shoot bows and wield swords
2x Human Magic-User
- Some people like to start the Magic-Users as fighters so that later they can wear armor and wield swords, but that's up to how much dorking around you feel like doing

 

[octavius]

I wouldn't bother with those extra Hit Points, but dual class as soon as you get 2 APR, and then get as high Mage levels as possible. This way you'll get Delayed Blast Fireball sooner and it will pack more punch in the final battles where you definitely want to open the first battle with two DBFs. I played with less than 18 CON and no save scumming and low HP was not much of a problem; what is crucial is Iniative in the really hard battles. High CON is mostly a life saver against Dragon breath, but otherwise running out of HP in one battle is rarely a problem. And as long as you keep your Cleric safe you'll always have Resurrection spells at hand. And the Heal spell of course works wonder on someone who is down to less than 10 HP, and can change the tide of a hard battle.
THAC0 and Saving Throws max out at around lvl 17-18, so that may be another consideration, but personally I think getting high mage levels ASAP should be a priority.

I'd definitely keep the Fighter/Thief, as their backstabs are very useful against Drow and Rakshasa. And with 1.5 APR they are not that much weaker than a single class Fighter type when not backstabbing (EDIT: although weaker THAC0 may hurt in the late game).

The single class Cleric will be mostly useless in combat, though, but you can always use him to set up backstabs for your F/T. Also Dispel Evil can be quite effective at insta killing certain enemies, like those accursed Blue Meanies Minions. It works with missiles weapons, so Dispel Evil + Staff Sling +3-5 is a nice combo.

The single class Mage I'd definitely keep as he is. He'll be the main weapon of mass destruction, and what you gain from dualing him will be useless in comparison. EDIT: and the higher the level the more effective his spells will be at penetrating the magic resistance of enemies, like Drow.

 

[octavius]

I'm probably not remembering this correctly, but I think that a lot of armor restricts spellcasting, so unless you are going to have a fighter/magic-user with elven chain the entire time, dual-classing in this manner may not be the way to go, especially when you find some great bracers later that are equivalent in protection to elven chain.

Dual classed Rangers can use any armour and still cast spells. Fighters must use Elfin Chain or Bracers. Bracers + Magic Rings and Cloaks are better than armour, though, so it's not really a problem. By that stage of the game you should have found enough magic gear for a Fighter/Mage.

Human Fighter/Thief
- Thief at start, immediately dual-classed to Fighter. This is so you can backstab later, which can be useful when pulled off correctly. Pick Locks can be replaced by the magic-users later via the Knock spell

Problem is that you only get 1X backstab modifier, instead of a 6-7X modifier for a high level Thief.

- Fighter at start and switch over to Cleric right away. Now you have a cleric that can shoot bows and wield swords

Isn't the Cleric still limited to Cleric weapons only?

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Higher level thieves have a tendency not to survive very long due to the leather armor restriction and lower hit points compared to other melee classes. Perhaps start a character as a low level fighter, then dual-class to thief to get the better backstab abilities at high levels while being able to use two-handed weapons and heavy armor, but the character's THACO and hit points will be low in comparison to rangers, fighters, and paladins.

I thought a dual-classed character has the advantages of both classes once the second class becomes equal in level to the first, and so a fighter/cleric could use swords and bows, but perhaps I'm wrong. It's been awhile and I'm not near my old character files in order to check.

Also, check this thread on Sorcerers.Net:

http://www.sorcerers.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-52412.html

 

[octavius]

Higher level thieves have a tendency not to survive very long due to the leather armor restriction.

Fighter/Thieves also tend to have lower HP, so they need good equipment. So I tend to give my F/T the best Bracers, Shields, Rings, Cloaks and Boots of Speed, so he always ends up with the best AC. The mages don't need good AC that much, since they don't melee, so I give them the left overs.
Bracers AC 2 is the best arnour you can get, since unlike magic armour you can use Rings and Cloaks or Protection with it, getting the best possible AC. Also, it doesn't reduce your movement the way armour does. (EDIT: and a further benefit of the Bracers + Rings and Cloaks combo is the improved Saving Throws from the Protection items)
Also, if I find a Ring of Invisibilty I give it to my Fighter/Thief. Then he can move freely between most enemies without provoking any opportunity attacks.

 

[Null Null]

Logically, a Cleric is still bound by the restrictions of his order and shouldn't be able to use edged weapons.

In Gold Box games, no. Dual your cleric to a fighter and he gets to use edged weapons; dual your fighter to a cleric and he can use edged weapons once he's surpassed his old level.

Human Fighter
Human Ranger
Dwarven Fighter/Thief
Human Cleric
Elven Fighter/Mage
Human Mage

Sounds like you're aiming for Pools, so: once you get to Secret, drop the fighter/mage and replace with a fighter/mage/thief; whether you want to go elf or half-elf depends on how much you want to stress about getting them killed versus how much you want a few 5th level spells (Hold Monster is surprisingly handy, it works on Dracoliches and Bits o' Moander).

If you've got your Fighter, you can hold on to him or replace him with a Paladin; the extra turning is quite useful in Pools of Darkness, especially in the Palace of Gothmenes (yes, you can turn undead in the Palace of Gothmenes but you can't in Dark Phlan. Ooops!)

I would keep your mage through Secret. Once you get to Pools, you can keep him (a very high-level mage will overcome Drow magic resistance and make that section of the game much easier) or replace him with a cleric you quickly dual to a mage.

It's instructive to study the default Secret and Pools parties.

The default Secret party is: paladin, cleric, ranger, fighter, fighter/thief, mage.
The default Pools party is: paladin, ranger, fighter/thief, cleric, ranger dualed to mage, cleric dualed to mage. Notably, the fighter/thief, cleric, paladin, and ranger dualed to mage have the same names as those characters in the Secret party(with the ranger dualed to mage being Secret's ranger)...suggesting that they dualed their ranger at 9th level in Secret (when he can cast spells in armor) and transferred him to Pools.

 

[Null Null]

Logically, a Cleric is still bound by the restrictions of his order and shouldn't be able to use edged weapons.

In Gold Box games, no. Dual your cleric to a fighter and he gets to use edged weapons; dual your fighter to a cleric and he can use edged weapons once he's surpassed his old level.

Human Fighter
Human Ranger
Dwarven Fighter/Thief
Human Cleric
Elven Fighter/Mage
Human Mage

Sounds like you're aiming for Pools, so: once you get to Secret, drop the fighter/mage and replace with a fighter/mage/thief; whether you want to go elf or half-elf depends on how much you want to stress about getting them killed versus how much you want a few 5th level spells (Hold Monster is surprisingly handy, it works on Dracoliches and Bits o' Moander).

If you've got your Fighter, you can hold on to him or replace him with a Paladin; the extra turning is quite useful in Pools of Darkness, especially in the Palace of Gothmenes (yes, you can turn undead in the Palace of Gothmenes but you can't in Dark Phlan. Ooops!)

I would keep your mage through Secret. Once you get to Pools, you can keep him (a very high-level mage will overcome Drow magic resistance and make that section of the game much easier) or replace him with a cleric you quickly dual to a mage.

It's instructive to study the default Secret and Pools parties.

The default Secret party is: paladin, cleric, ranger, fighter, fighter/thief, mage.
The default Pools party is: paladin, ranger, fighter/thief, cleric, ranger dualed to mage, cleric dualed to mage. Notably, the fighter/thief, cleric, paladin, and ranger dualed to mage have the same names as those characters in the Secret party(with the ranger dualed to mage being Secret's ranger)...suggesting that they dualed their ranger at 9th level in Secret (when he can cast spells in armor) and transferred him to Pools.

ADDENDUM:
I should clarify: you really should make sure you dual that ranger to a mage. Basically, IMHO, to complete Pools of Darkness you need two high-level mages. While you can get away with one for most of the game, for the first round of the final battle you will need to wipe out as many Blue Bane Minions and Pets of Kalistes as possible in the first round before they can breathe on and disintegrate you.

It's also useful to have a few extra Haste spells around, because in the very final battle you will also want to be able to hit the Blue Bane Minions enough times with your bows to be able to damage them, and to kill Gothmenes from afar (his Vorpal Long Sword make melee very dangerous). There's a reason the designers left all those arrows lying around the Dark Dimension. So you should have extra Haste spells in reserve on your mages, then cast them after beating the beholders at the end of round 2 (they slow you, remember). Fire Touch is also a useful spell.

OK, when? You have a few options. Note that you should NOT dual a ranger to a mage before level 9, or the whole point is gone; that's when they get mage spells, and you will be able to cast mage spells in armor. The tradeoff is as follows: earlier dual-classing means you will have higher mage levels, but fewer hitpoints. I'd say the game gives about 7,000,000 experience points without additional grinding.
Level 9 (ie Secret): Allows you to pick up the most mage experience. I actually don't think this is the best idea as your hitpoints will be relatively low and you will only have 1.5 attacks per round.
Level 15: When rangers get two attacks per round. This is probably the earliest you can do this.
Level 22: Probably the latest you can do this without additional grinding being necessary to get your character above his old level. Keep in mind you will effectively have a very high-hit-point single-class mage for much of the game.
Level 39: The latest you can do this. You will have the most hitpoints, but have to do extensive grinding to get your character to 40th level and be able to use real weapons again.

 

[octavius]

Grinding to lvl 39 would be silly. All you get is about 50 extra HP.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Grinding to lvl 39 would be silly. All you get is about 50 extra HP.

Grinding for a higher level (39 or 40) is worth the saving throw bonuses for when your party has to fight the mass of beholders at the end.

 

[kmonster]

Grinding to lvl 39 would be silly. All you get is about 50 extra HP.

Grinding for a higher level (39 or 40) is worth the saving throw bonuses for when your party has to fight the mass of beholders at the end.

Pointless. There's no saving throw improvement after level 17(warrior), 19(cleirc), 21(thief,mage) any more.

 

[kmonster]

Time for some party planning now that I'm nearing the end of Curse of the Azure Bonds (which has been surprisingly good; far better than I remembered).

I'm currently rolling with a party composed of:

Human Fighter
Human Ranger
Dwarven Fighter/Thief
Human Cleric
Elven Fighter/Mage
Human Mage

Obviously, the Fighter/Mage is out when it's time to move onto Secret, as she's pretty much hit both her level caps and thus has little room for advancement, but the fate of the rest of the crew is less clear.

I definitely want to dual-class the Fighter and Ranger, probably to a spellcasting class, but I'm not certain when to do so. Dualing the Fighter to a Mage in Secret of the Silver Blades would be cool, but given my lack of knowledge about Pools I don't know if a 13/X Fighter/Mage is the way to roll. Said build seems adequete, as it has all of the Fighter's d10 hit dice rolls, two attacks-per-round, and is possible to achieve within Secret. But this may not be enough for PoD's ridiculous encounters balanced for extreme powergaming, in which the additional 40-60 HP from Fighter level ups past name-level could be crucial.

The Ranger is a bit more tricky, because he only recieves 2 APR at level 15; the cap for all classes in SotSB besides Thieves and I'm not certain I want a Thief.

Not certain what to do with the Cleric and Mage; Dualing from a casting class to a non-casting class is almost always a bad move, especially in epic levels where casters benefit the most from additional level ups. Perhaps keep them around for a little bit in Secret, than phase them out and replace them with Fighters/Rangers/Paladins made to dual-class into casters?

Are Thieves even useful in SotSB or PoD? I know all the Gold Box games have some amount of scripted interactions for thieving characters but, as far as I recall, SotSB and PoD have a paucity of enemies vulnerable to backstabs; I don't think Pools has anything besides Drow, because everything else is either larger than man-sized or one of the undead.

Any advice from the Gold Box long-run mastermen?

If you want to dualclass your fighter or ranger to mage do it SotSB, unless you waste a lot of time grinding or use a character editor you won't reach enough XP for the highest mage levels in Pools, so the extra mage levels will make a big difference there.
If you want a ranger/mage with 2 attacks per round dual after reaching level 15 in secrets, you can fight the end battle there without completed dualclassing, but even ranger 10/mage dualed in curse is fine for Pools.
You could dual the fighter to cleric and the cleric to mage (can't cast level 7 spells but at least use scrolls) in Secret if you want to keep them, if you want to replace characters do it at the beginning of SotSB, you need the XP.

 

[Servo]

How come my fighter can sometimes shoot his bow twice?

 

[octavius]

How come my fighter can sometimes shoot his bow twice?

He's ambidextrous.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

How come my fighter can sometimes shoot his bow twice?

Ranged weapons have higher Attacks-Per-Round than melee weapons, most noticeable at lower levels. I know the IE games had 2 APR on most ranged weapons, but I think the Gold Box games have 3/2 APR, which means your Fighter may be entitled to a second attack every other round when wielding a bow.

Edit: Couple of questions for anyone lurking around.

-Any way to utilize the PoR/CotAB control schemes in Secret and beyond? I really miss the hotkeys in many of the menus, especially the training window and hate having to press an input to toggle movement.

-Is there a guide to hex-editing character stats anywhere out there? All I can find are Gold Box Companion links as well as a"e-z-mode" GUI editor that doesn't seem to work with Secret (the author's documentation said only PoR and Curse were considered fully supported; anything else may be glitch/bug prone).

My Ranger was transferred over from Curse and seems to have retained 24 Strength from the Girdle of Giant Strength without having to wear it (similar to the Gauntlets of Ogre Power transfer glitch, but a bit more malignant).

Double Edit: Servo, bro, it's also important to know that multiple attacks in the Gold Box games seem to be handled a bit strangely. Even if a character would be entitled to a second attack, they seemingly only receive the opportunity if their first attack actually lands. If they miss, the second/third attacks will not occur.

 

[Servo]

Double Edit: Servo, bro, it's also important to know that multiple attacks in the Gold Box games seem to be handled a bit strangely. Even if a character would be entitled to a second attack, they seemingly only receive the opportunity if their first attack actually lands. If they miss, the second/third attacks will not occur.

Yeah I noticed that.

As for hex editing save files, I use frhed. The left side of the window is the binary information, the right side is the character representation. You can use tab to edit the characters directly, which makes editing strings relatively easy. Basic character info seems to be in the .SAV files, which are named according to save slot and character number. So your first character if you saved in slot C would be CHRDATC1.SAV (I'm not sure if this is first character created or party order, but the name starts at 0x1 so it's hard to miss). Items are in .ITM files. So far I've only messed with the .SAV files to change a character's name.

Just make sure you back up yo sheeit first.