Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[Monstrous Bat]

Why does the Codex love PoR so much? I know there's a few good fights (rope guild, graveyard, final boss) but overall I found it too repetitive. There's about 4 enemy spellcasters in the entire game, and all they do is casting Magic Missile on your fighters. I can't deny that there's monsters with interesting abilities, but they're rare and for the most part of the game you're justing fighting hordes after hordes of generic grunts. Playing PoR actually discouraged me from trying other goldbox games since I assumed that they all play like this.

Recently, however, I decided to try out Champions of Krynn, and so far I'm having a blast with it. The encounters are smaller, but the improved AI, the abundance of enemy spellcasters and special abilities made them much more fun and deadly. PoR and CoK are the only goldbox games I've played so far, but I found CoK much more enjoyable than PoR.

 

[octavius]

I think PoR is mainly loved because of the quest design and unlinearity.

It also has many memorable encounters. In addition to the ones you mentioned there's the epic three part fight against the kobolds and their allies, the bar brawls and the armies of orcs. I miss those huge fights in later games.

 

[Jaesun]

So I wasn't aware there was ROMANCE™ in Treasures of the Savage Frontier (LOL BioWare ripping off 1992 games), and since I did NOT want that girl romancing Jaesun, I re-rolled my charters and am taking them through Gateway (Jaesun is now a Female cleric, so I can romance that guy) heh

Human Paladin
Human Cleric
Half-Elf Cleric/Magic User (SERIOUSLY NINE Hit Points max at level 2?) Ouch.....
Dwarf Fighter/Thief
Elf Magic User
Human Ranger

Since NOW I know what to do, I can run through this pretty fast...

EDIT: Has anyone seen a GOOD scan of the Adventurers Journal for Treasures of the Savage Frontier? The one on Replacementdocs is a horrible blurry shitty scan.

 

[octavius]

So I wasn't aware there was ROMANCE™ in Treasures of the Savage Frontier (LOL BioWare ripping off 1992 games), and since I did NOT want that girl romancing Jaesun, I re-rolled my charters and am taking them through Gateway (Jaesun is now a Female cleric, so I can romance that guy) heh

 

[Servo]

Is there no way to add a class to a character, like my elf mage? cuz creating a new character means level 1

Also would a fighter/mage be a good combo? That way they could use a bow instead of shitty darts.

 

[Jaesun]

What do you mean adding a class to your character?

 

[Servo]

What do you mean adding a class to your character?

Well I have a level 2 mage. Can I add a fighter class, making her mage 2/fighter 1?

Also, I don't really understand how backstabbing works:

In a combat, the first and second attackers strike at the defender's front. The third attacker strikes at the defender's rear, unless all the attackers are adjacent. The fourth and any additional attackers strike at the defender's rear. The defender's AC is substantially reduced against rear attacks.

A thief forms the only exception to the automatic facing rules. If the thief attacks from exactly the opposite the first attacker, he can backstab.

So it depends on party order? Or initiative order? i.e. he has to be third in the initiative roll to get a backstab? Or he has to be standing in position 3? What does "exactly opposite the first attacker" mean?

 

[kmonster]

Is there no way to add a class to a character, like my elf mage? cuz creating a new character means level 1

Also would a fighter/mage be a good combo? That way they could use a bow instead of shitty darts.

Stop worrying about your party, it's fine. You would have an easy time with 6 half-elf fighter/cleric/mage multiclasses with maxed stats but your party is balanced.
You can even take it through Curse if you want, only the dwarf is limited to fighter level 9 instead of 11 there but still gets the maximum number of attacks.

 

[Servo]

Is there no way to add a class to a character, like my elf mage? cuz creating a new character means level 1

Also would a fighter/mage be a good combo? That way they could use a bow instead of shitty darts.

Stop worrying about your party, it's fine. You would have an easy time with 6 half-elf fighter/cleric/mage multiclasses with maxed stats but your party is balanced.
You can even take it through Curse if you want, only the dwarf is limited to fighter level 9 instead of 11 there but still gets the maximum number of attacks.

I hear ya. I started to make a multiclass character but then realized that if I was playing this in 1988 I wouldn't have the internet to tell me what to do and would probably be ok.

 

[kmonster]

What do you mean adding a class to your character?

Well I have a level 2 mage. Can I add a fighter class, making her mage 2/fighter 1?

No, you can't add classes later in PoR, the classes you choose at creation remain forever. In Curse humans can dualclass once, stop gaining levels in the first class and only get levels in the second class afterwards.

 

[kmonster]

So I wasn't aware there was ROMANCE™ in Treasures of the Savage Frontier (LOL BioWare ripping off 1992 games), and since I did NOT want that girl romancing Jaesun, I re-rolled my charters and am taking them through Gateway (Jaesun is now a Female cleric, so I can romance that guy) heh

Human Paladin
Human Cleric
Half-Elf Cleric/Magic User (SERIOUSLY NINE Hit Points max at level 2?) Ouch.....
Dwarf Fighter/Thief
Elf Magic User
Human Ranger

Since NOW I know what to do, I can run through this pretty fast...

I fear you will regret your third character, half-elves are limited to cleric 5 and mage 8 only.

 

[mondblut]

Well I have a level 2 mage. Can I add a fighter class, making her mage 2/fighter 1?

That's not 3rd edition. You can create a fighter, then dualclass him into mage. Doing it the other way around is a waste of opportunity.

Oh, and you're best doing it not earlier than level 13.

 

[Jaesun]

So I wasn't aware there was ROMANCE™ in Treasures of the Savage Frontier (LOL BioWare ripping off 1992 games), and since I did NOT want that girl romancing Jaesun, I re-rolled my charters and am taking them through Gateway (Jaesun is now a Female cleric, so I can romance that guy) heh

Human Paladin
Human Cleric
Half-Elf Cleric/Magic User (SERIOUSLY NINE Hit Points max at level 2?) Ouch.....
Dwarf Fighter/Thief
Elf Magic User
Human Ranger

Since NOW I know what to do, I can run through this pretty fast...

I fear you will regret your third character, half-elves are limited to cleric 5 and mage 8 only.

The Cleric 5 Magic User 8 is fine for Gateway/Treasure of the Savage Frontier.

IF I was playing Pools of Darkness... then no.

 

[Servo]

I'm afraid my question about backstabbing may have gotten buried. Also, is there any reason to not let monsters run away? My NPC seems to think they all need to die.

 

[Telengard]

So it depends on party order? Or initiative order? i.e. he has to be third in the initiative roll to get a backstab? Or he has to be standing in position 3? What does "exactly opposite the first attacker" mean?

Think in terms of a grid. If someone attacks an enemy, that enemy is now facing the attacker. So, if a thief attacks first in a round, the enemy will auto-turn and face the thief, and there will be no backstab. If however, someone - anyone - else attacks the enemy first, the enemy will now be facing him and will thus have an exposed back, ready for backstabbing. A thief character then can then move to the enemy's back, in the grid-point opposite the first attacker, allowing a backstab.

You can also get rear attacks/backstabs by piling on a single enemy, even if no one actually get to the enemy's back, by getting an overwhelming number of attackers on the enemy. In that case, if two attackers engage an enemy, what would otherwise be a flank attack becomes a rear attack, thus allowing a backstab from the flank.

 

[Jaesun]

You must also be using a weapon that thieves can use (like a sword, any sword. You can't back-stab with a morningstar.) AND you must ONLY be using leather armor.

 

[kmonster]

The Cleric 5 Magic User 8 is fine for Gateway/Treasure of the Savage Frontier.

IF I was playing Pools of Darkness... then no.

In later parts of Treasures of the Savage Frontier a level 5/8 character will feel underleveled among level 10-12 characters, with considerably less HP and worse thac0 than even a pure class mage. This character makes only sense if you want wimp in your party for roleplaying reasons.

 

[Null Null]

You must also be using a weapon that thieves can use (like a sword, any sword. You can't back-stab with a morningstar.) AND you must ONLY be using leather armor.

I believe elfin chain was supposed to do it as well, and you could pull the bracers-and-shield-and-helm trick--can anyone confirm?

 

[octavius]

You must also be using a weapon that thieves can use (like a sword, any sword. You can't back-stab with a morningstar.) AND you must ONLY be using leather armor.

I believe elfin chain was supposed to do it as well, and you could pull the bracers-and-shield-and-helm trick--can anyone confirm?

I can confirm that this definitely works in FRUA. Should work in the GB games as well, with the caveat that there always was small rules difference from game to game.

 

[octavius]

So it depends on party order? Or initiative order? i.e. he has to be third in the initiative roll to get a backstab? Or he has to be standing in position 3? What does "exactly opposite the first attacker" mean?

Think in terms of a grid. If someone attacks an enemy, that enemy is now facing the attacker. So, if a thief attacks first in a round, the enemy will auto-turn and face the thief, and there will be no backstab. If however, someone - anyone - else attacks the enemy first, the enemy will now be facing him and will thus have an exposed back, ready for backstabbing. A thief character then can then move to the enemy's back, in the grid-point opposite the first attacker, allowing a backstab.

You can also get rear attacks/backstabs by piling on a single enemy, even if no one actually get to the enemy's back, by getting an overwhelming number of attackers on the enemy. In that case, if two attackers engage an enemy, what would otherwise be a flank attack becomes a rear attack, thus allowing a backstab from the flank.

There are two differences between PoR and all the later GB games:
1. In PoR it's the third attack that is a backstab, not the second.
2. Backstabbing works on any enemy, even Dragons. In later games it only works on enemies that occupy one square.

Also note that the backstab won't work if the target moves between the first and second (third in PoR) attacks.

Bottom line: it's not that useful in PoR due to being hard to pull off, requiring half your party, and the damage being rather low due to low Thief levels which means low backstab modifier. In Curse backstabbing rules, though, especially against those magic resistant Drow.

 

[groundhog]

EDIT: Has anyone seen a GOOD scan of the Adventurers Journal for Treasures of the Savage Frontier? The one on Replacementdocs is a horrible blurry shitty scan.

You can find an excellent .pdf copy at:
http://www.mocagh.org/loadpage.php?getgame=treasure

For anyone who doesn't know the above site - it has good quality pdf's and jpg's of documentation and game boxes for hundreds of old games. Well worth taking a look.

 

[Monstrous Bat]

I think PoR is mainly loved because of the quest design and unlinearity.

It also has many memorable encounters. In addition to the ones you mentioned there's the epic three part fight against the kobolds and their allies, the bar brawls and the armies of orcs. I miss those huge fights in later games.

OK, I'll admit that PoR was pretty nonlinear. But quest design? You gotta be kidding me... There's nothing memorable about PoR's quest design. Except maybe the one associated with Cardona, but even that was fairly simplistic.

And no, I don't miss those "whack down 300 kobolds" fights, thank you.

More on my CoK playthrough: just beat a bunch of draconians in an ogre base. The aurak and his sivak buddies knocked out almost everyone in the party, and in the end I had to resort to the fireball wand to get the last bit of damage on the aurak. Everybody was unconscious at the end of the battle, except the party mage who literally survived the fight on her last hit point. I love this game.

 

[Servo]

Three questions:

1. Do the skeletons and zombies respawn? I feel like I've killed hundreds of these guys. Do they come back if I let them run away from a fight?
2. Turn undead is really annoying, because then I have to chase down all the baddies when they inevitably run into a wall. Can I simply end the combat at that point without having to kill them?
3. My dwarf fighter was doing a "sweep" there for a while where he would hit multiple enemies in a single swing. Now he stopped doing it. What is that all about?

 

[octavius]

1. Patrols in Sokol Keep? Yes, they respawn. Give them their password.
2. No. You either have to let them escape (which only happens if they are at least as fast as your fastest guy) or kill them.
3. Sweep only works against very weak enemies like Goblins, Kobolds and Rats.

 

[Jaesun]

1. Where specifically are you at? *Typically* an area you are in has a set number of Random Encounters. After you have fought them, there won't be any more encounter (unless you try to rest in an area that you cannot rest safely in, you will ALWAYS have an encounter).
2. That's one of the irritating AI bugs/feature of the gold box engine. You can either hunt down and kill it, or find and exit and have your party leave the battle map.
3. Sweep only works on Low Hit Dice monsters.