Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[ProphetSword]

I've also heard rumors that Pool of Radiance might have been using some rules from 2nd Edition, but I can't confirm that. Would that have changed the formula in any way?

 

[mindx2]

Jaesun how are you mapping this run through? I'm using Grid Cartographer and loving it.

 

[Servo]

Rats. This is why I wish RPG Codex had an edit button. Thanks for catching that.

There is an edit button that hides after 1/2 hr. If you stick around for a year you can edit your posts indefinitely. Not sure the logic behind that. Guess you shouldn't have changed alts

Thanks for all the help Null Null and ProphetSword. I'm still pretty confused but at least now I see the fighter to-hit table on pg. 14.

 

[Null Null]

Rats. This is why I wish RPG Codex had an edit button. Thanks for catching that.

There is an edit button that hides after 1/2 hr. If you stick around for a year you can edit your posts indefinitely. Not sure the logic behind that. Guess you shouldn't have changed alts

Thanks for all the help Null Null and ProphetSword. I'm still pretty confused but at least now I see the fighter to-hit table on pg. 14.

You're welcome!

Let me see if this clears things up:

THAC0=level - Strength bonus - weapon plus for hand-to-hand
THAC0=level - Dexterity bonus - weapon plus - missile plus for missile

You have to roll THAC0-AC to hit on a 20-sided die. The computer simulates generating a number from 1 to 20, and if the number is higher than THAC0-AC, you hit. In real life tabletop games combat involves rolling large numbers of dice and hoping they come up the way you like. It's like craps, but you don't lose your life savings.

I'm convinced D&D would never have been invented anywhere but the Upper Midwest, with its cold winters. 10 hours indoors to kill on a Sunday and this is the kind of thing you come up with.

 

[Telengard]

Ok one more question (for now). My dwarf has STR 18/99 and a THAC0 of 17. He has a two-handed sword. He gets +2 to hit because of his STR, but where's the extra +1 to hit coming from? Also he's not blessed.

OSRIC pg. 3 says (when describing dwarves):

+1 to hit against goblins, half-orcs, hobgoblins, and orcs

Do the GB games just give you this bonus all the time because programming is hard or what?

Edit: dammit my other fighter (STR 17) has THAC0 18 with and without the short bow +1 equipped. So foncusing.

The Gold Box games use a form of THAC0 that was adopted later. So your THAC0 goes down as follows:

• Warrior 1 every level
• Wizard 1 every 3 levels
• Priest 2 every 3 levels
• Rogue 1 every 2 levels

 

[Null Null]

Ok one more question (for now). My dwarf has STR 18/99 and a THAC0 of 17. He has a two-handed sword. He gets +2 to hit because of his STR, but where's the extra +1 to hit coming from? Also he's not blessed.

OSRIC pg. 3 says (when describing dwarves):

+1 to hit against goblins, half-orcs, hobgoblins, and orcs

Do the GB games just give you this bonus all the time because programming is hard or what?

Edit: dammit my other fighter (STR 17) has THAC0 18 with and without the short bow +1 equipped. So foncusing.

The Gold Box games use a form of THAC0 that was adopted later. So your THAC0 goes down as follows:

• Warrior 1 every level
• Wizard 1 every 3 levels
• Priest 2 every 3 levels
• Rogue 1 every 2 levels

I think those are the 2e rules.

This is mildly more annoying because we're talking about Pool of Radiance instead of FRUA where I could just generate characters of any level, but loading up old saves:

Warriors go up 1 every level, clerics go up 2 every 3 levels, thieves go up 2 every 4, mages go up 2 every 5. I.E., the D&D 1e tables are followed for THAC0, with the +1 for even-numbered fighters rule I mentioned. Also note that mages start at THAC0 21 (technically they can hit AC0 on a 20 but the rest of the tables work out with them having a THAC0 of 21), whereas the other classes start at THAC0 20. They don't seem to have quite followed this in Pool, where 1st through 5th level mages have THAC0 20, but they do only go up to 19. Can anyone confirm?

The Gold Box games were pretty solidly 1e, though some 2e bits started creeping in at the end--Pools of Darkness has 2e stats for the tanar'ri (and calls them that rather than demons). If you look carefully at the XP values for FRUA monsters, some have 1e calculations and some have 2e calculations.

 

[ProphetSword]

This just makes it more authentic. Most of us played AD&D as a mish-mash of 1st & 2nd Edition combined anyway, which caused all kinds of weird problems from time to time, even though the games were compatible. The Gold-Box games capture that nightmare with 100% accuracy.

 

[Jaesun]

Jaesun how are you mapping this run through? I'm using Grid Cartographer and loving it.

I like using pen and paper..... I'm Olde School....

 

[mindx2]

Jaesun how are you mapping this run through? I'm using Grid Cartographer and loving it.

I like using pen and paper..... I'm Olde School....

Yeah, I guess I've begun my slide into modern pop-a-mole territory by forsaking p&p and going digital!!!

 

[Jaesun]

You know, I keep forgetting about that program. Maybe I'll give it a try.

 

[mindx2]

You know, I keep forgetting about that program. Maybe I'll give it a try.

You really should give it a try. Wonderful, full featured and easy to use program.

 

[Jaesun]

Yeah I just tried that out (the free version). That is damn sweet! Sadly, I play in full screen mode, so I would need a second monitor to use it when I play (of which I don't have). That program does make really nice maps, and very easy to use. <3

 

[Jaesun]

Holy shit. That fucking battle in Loudwater. This HUGE fucking legion attacks the party. My gawd, it was EPIC! 3 people down to 3-5 HP. If I knew there was going to be huge fucking battle there, I could have easily planned for it spell wise and OWNED all (but I'm not LAME and using a clue book). Not sure why people don't give this game (Gateway to the Savage Frontier) more credit. So far this is really an enjoyable Gold Box Game.

 

[octavius]

Holy shit. That fucking battle in Loudwater. This HUGE fucking legion attacks the party. My gawd, it was EPIC! 3 people down to 3-5 HP. If I knew there was going to be huge fucking battle there, I could have easily planned for it spell wise and OWNED all (but I'm not LAME and using a clue book). Not sure why people don't give this game (Gateway to the Savage Frontier) more credit. So far this is really an enjoyable Gold Box Game.

Epixc battle in Loudwater doesn't ring any bells. Do you have any screenshots?
Anyway, I'm glad you're enjoying it more than I did. It's not bad, but I felt it was rather subpar compared to the Pools and Krynn series. But Treasures is much better IMO, and Gateway does have a very good and unique final fight which I think you'll like.

 

[Jaesun]

Epixc battle in Loudwater doesn't ring any bells. Do you have any screenshots?

Of course it is difficult to center this right to show all the combatants. But holy fucking shit. All those ranged weapons (and the ranged Manticore's barbs).

 

[octavius]

Ah, that one.
IIRC the main fight is much more managable if you take out the patrols and guard towers first. But one fight against the amassed Zhentil forces at Loudwater should be lots more fun than several small skirmishes.

 

[mondblut]

If I knew there was going to be huge fucking battle there, I could have easily planned for it spell wise

Uh, you don't need a cluebook to stuff yourself with fireballs, ice storms and hold persons. This "plan" works for the entire duration of any game. You need a cluebook to plan for that one combat when those spells don't work, and this isn't the case

 

[octavius]

You need a cluebook only to check if you missed something.

 

[Jaesun]

Well when you are fighting over 20 combatants with ranged weapons, guess who they all target.

(I would do the same though....) heh

 

[mondblut]

Well when you are fighting over 20 combatants with ranged weapons, guess who they all target.

(I would do the same though....) heh

2nd level is for mirror image, and 1st level always has a spare slot for shield. You normally don't need to sacrifice a fireball for a protection from normal missiles.

 

[Null Null]

It was a pretty common design element: the really big battle that can be shrunken down by fighting lots of little battles around it. Other examples are Gheildarr's castle in Llorkh in TSF, the Kernen Gate battle in CoK, the undead beasts in DKK, and even arguably the ettins in PoR.

Oh, and it's a few messages back but I never got to it. Yes, there is a Fine Composite Long Bow in Pool of Radiance:

Spoiler

The Fine Composite Long Bow in Pool of Radiance can be bought for 25,000 gold in the silver shop.

 

[Jaesun]

Good job there Jaesun...

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

What gratitude:

We'll see if I ever save her ass again...

Anyway, knocking on the Dreadlord's castle now, so it's time to think about Pools of Darkness which I don't have much memory of.

-Are seventh level Cleric spells worthwhile enough to really build around in any way? I don't remember them being all that great, unlike in later D&D cRPGs. Restoration andResurrection have their uses, but I remember Destruction being yet another bad save-or-else spell that never works.

-On the topic of Clerical magic, is any of it worthwhile past Bless/Prayer, healing/dispels, and Hold Person? Bestow Curse, Cause Blindness/Disease, Sticks to Snakes, Silence, and whatnot haven't proven effective in my experience. In fact, Sticks to Snakes has never worked in the dozens of times I've used it; enemies always "smash them flat". Am I playing my Clerics wrong, or are their spell selections simply sub-par? Do some PoD enemies have critical weaknesses to certain Clerical spells that can be exploited? Did

-Did Pools have the feature in which a player character Paladin can permit the player to command recruited NPCs if the paladin has high charisma and is of a higher level than the NPC? I remember this in the latter Krynn games (this might have extended to Knights as well) which were about the same "generation" as PoD.

-Any items that are extremely important to transfer over from Secret? Obviously things like +5 weaponry/shields/armor/bracers as well as unique rings are coming along, but are there any things plentiful in SotSB that I'd regret leaving in New Verdigris' vault? Potions? Scrolls? All those wands I wasted on encounters in the mines/crevasses?

 

[octavius]

Bestow Curse, Cause Disease, Cause Blindness and Sticks to Snakes are worthless. Even if you Blind a monster it has no practical effect whatsoever. Spells casters can still target spells on the party. The Gold Box version of the lvl 8 mage spell Power Word: Blind is IMO the most useless spell in the history of CRPGs.

Dispel Evil can be good against certain evil monsters. They do get a saving throw, though, but it worked quite well for me against Minions in PoD.

Heal is an excellent spell, which will restore all but 1-4 HP to a character.

Blade Barrier can be excellent, especially against spell casters with various protections like Fire Shield or Prot Normal Missiles, and will damage them each turn until they die. Magic Resistance protects against it, though, which is a bit counter intuitive.

I never bother with Harm and Destruction since the monsters you want to use it on have too high chance to save. Better to memorize the spells you know will work, like Heal and Blade Barrier.

If you can find Scrolls with Restoration and Resurrection, lvl 7 spells are not vital for a Cleric. But I'd say lvl 6 spells are.

I'm pretty sure Paladins can lead NPCs in PoD. I know for a fact they do in FRUA.

You'll find that your hoard of magical items may not be that important in PoD.
Apart from that I can't remember details. Buying new stuff may become a problem in Pod, so you may want to stack up on magical arrows.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

Only really played 3 Gold Box games - POR, COK and BR:CTD - but they were pretty fun. POR had some seriously long battles where I had to reload several times but I never really grew bored. I remember a simple bar fight that had the entire male patronage trying to gib my little group's ass but we fought long & hardy, and persevered. Surprised to read here that COK is considered to have some of the tougher encounters in the series since I don't remember having much trouble with anything in that game, and instead of fighting a ridiculous number of foes onscreen at once like in POR, encounter numbers seemed small & quite reasonable. I'd like to try FRUA with some modules but I'm hearing that even the slowest monsters in that engine have first initiative in any encounter. *Mr. Rogers Voice* My Term Of The Day today: immeeershun-breaking. Carry on.