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StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Angthoron

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Jul 13, 2007
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Even before that, RTSes were going shit places, though - every 2nd game was a clone of Starcraft, C&C or TA, basically, with shit AI, horrible campaigns, and shit arts. And then 3D came and made all the lovely-looking sprite-based armies look insanely bland and lacking any kind of personality.
 

Archibald

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Aug 26, 2010
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I don't think so, there were several years before the rise of MOBAs in which AFAIK the only RTS games released were Starcraft II and EA's shitty Command & Conquer sequels. I think that RTS, like cRPGs, were killed by consolization; they don't work on consoles at all (though it didn't stop EA from trying).

Can we blame global climate warming (or whatever they are calling that shit now) on consoles too?
 
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I thought Wings Of Liberty was simply mediocre and not too offensive right up until Zeratul brought uS TIDINGS OF DOOOOOOOM. Swarm just took a dive right off of the fucking bridge into Plot Hole River and I'm not the slightest damn bit optimistic about Legacy now that we've seen what the :decline: of Blizzard's :decline: looks like.

Liberty had its own problems, though, but nothing that made me outright hate it the way I did Heart Of The Swarm. The "love plot" with Kerrigan was something Blizzard just pulled directly out of their ass.
"I'M THE MAN WHO'S GONNA KILL YOU SOME DAY!" to "I MOVED HEAVEN AND EARTH FOR YOU!"
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
I think one of the unfortunate parts of HotS campaign is that Blizzard seemed scaled back the campaign. From the earlier presentations, I remember Blizzard allowing players to choose between making Kerrigan more infested/zerg-like and more human with the upgrades. Assuming I remember correctly, I really wish they kept that.

Although I will buy LotV at some point, I am cautious about the "RPG" elements of the campaign. In WoL, you customized your army, and in HotS you customized both the army and Kerrigan. I did enjoy those aspects of the campaigns. In contrast, LotV's mechanics do not seem as exciting with the army and the ship, which does not sound as exciting as HotS. For the moment, it reminds me of the faction powers in DoW1.
 
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I'm going to buy LotV because it's a Blizzard game and if it's a Starcraft or Diablo game I kinda just have to now, but I know it'll piss me off and not provide me with any closure what-so-ever.

To be honest I'm not even sure how I'd have approached Starcraft 2 if I was in charge of writing it.
The ending of Brood War (ignoring the secret mission) left you with an "Orcus On His Throne" cliffhanger (Queen Bitch Of The Universe On Her Throne?) that could've set the next game up to be epic. For Starcraft 2 they could've done the one campaign order that they hadn't done yet (Ep VII Zerg, Ep VIII Protoss, Ep IX Terran) and focused on ending plot threads from the original games rather than creating dozens of new loose ends with this not even very well written copy+paste of Warcraft 3 that they tried to pull.

The storyline of the originals wasn't incredible but it was competent and it got to the point.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

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Should've set it up so Raynor wanted to kill Kerrigan instead of fuck her for starters. And dropped the precursor thingie.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Should've set it up so Raynor wanted to kill Kerrigan instead of fuck her for starters.
This happened in Brood war even. Raynor starts out feeling guilty that kerrigan got abandoned, captured and zergified and tries to save her. However he gradually comes to realize she's evil and when she kills his protoss friend (fenix?) he vows to kill her.


But yes, after that he totally became an alcoholic dreaming about marrying her again.

Blizzard fucked up sc2's story so hard.
 
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The fact you can 1-hit Fenix by just tossing a broodling at him is pretty hilarious. Surely the playtester(s?) at Blizzard in 1998 thought about that, right?

The quick solutions to some of the campaign mission objectives were pretty damn amusing. Especially the one for the Trump Card when you d-matrix the SCV with the psi emitter and just run it straight through the enemy base. You can win the mission in just under two minutes with that.
 

Angthoron

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Jul 13, 2007
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All those hero deaths in BW were pretty sad at the time.

Fenix, Duke, Stukov, and that's just off the top of my head. Matriarch dies, some zerg stuff dies, a lot of stuff dies.

But that's the point, that way you have actual stakes. Important characters die, likeable characters die. As long as you don't go overboard and into ridiculous with it, it's a great way to motivate the player/reader/whatever.

Remind me how many important characters that we care about die in WoL and HotS.

Oh yeah and to make things better they even brought back a few characters from the dead.
 

Cowboy Moment

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Feb 8, 2011
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Honestly, doesn't really matter how good LotV is in any absolute sense (though I expect it to be average). The game is dying. They had one shot at resurrecting competitive RTS back during Wings of Liberty, and they blew it. It was just slow decline afterwards.

SC2 is not boring. It's pretty challenging and fun to play, even at lower levels of skillset. So that's an incorrect statement. Subjective oinions.. everywherreee

It's pretty much the opposite of fun to play. A lot of its fundamentals are flawed, and in their eagerness to make the MP more approachable, the developers made it into one of two extremes: either cheese fiesta build-order poker, or boring and passive turtling into maxed armies with a single game-ending battle. Since macro is much easier, there are much fewer microable units, and counters are harder, the result is that build orders and army compositions are more important than execution, which makes for a frustrating game to play and a mostly boring game to watch.

This isn't a particularly controversial opinion either - this was discussed on TL ever since WoL release (well, technically since tournaments started using non-horrible maps, but whatever), many times.

HS is casual? Okay, why aren't you the top #1 player in the world then, since it's so easy to be good at ? Sure, it's no MTG, but it doesn't need to be. HS is VERY successful, fun, fast and enganging. It's complex and innovative. A smash hit. You might not like the game, but saying is casual is also flat out wrong.

HS is casual by design. It has some amount of competitive depth, but this is in spite of the developers' efforts. It is literally a tablet game for people to play casually during their lunch breaks or while commuting. It's painfully boring to play when you actually try to devote your whole attention to it, "engaging" my ass. There's also nothing particularly complex or innovative about it. The reason it's successful is that it has great presentation, a polished client, is very easy to get into (aka casual), and because of the Blizzard brand.

By the way, the notion of a "#1 player in the world" is pretty dumb in a game with so much variance, and I say this as someone who sat in the Top100 of the EU ladder for most of a season at one point. Getting to Legend (less than top 1% of all players, if I remember correctly) in HS is much, much easier than a similar feat in proper competitive games like Starcraft, CS or even Dota. Hell, I reckon the annual Call of Duty has a much higher skillcap as well.
 
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Starcraft 2 was only fun to watch during the first beta with the HDH Invitational and stuff and also during early WoL where nobody really knew how to play the game yet and the "cheese fiesta build-order poker" (I like that description) hadn't quite settled in yet. Watching bronze league games (that was one of the only good cast series that Husky actually made) is actually more fun than watching the pro-tier shit nowadays precisely because of the build-order poker that pervades the entirety of the game, which is utterly depressing.

It was never really enjoyable to play for me. I still find Brood War to be fun, although I haven't played melee in years.
If Blizzard could add SC2's matchmaking to Brood War that'd actually be ideal for me. That's the one thing about SC2 that I thought was a good feature.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

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I have a hard time remembering anyone else from SC2, so she has to be the most important character.

Oh wait, there was that rastafarian dude.

 

Angthoron

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Jul 13, 2007
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13,056
Tychus is alive in HotS, ffs.
 

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