StarCraft: Remastered

[Hoaxmetal]

I don't know about SC HD but this SC2 version is coming out today:

What's the point?

 

[rado907]

I thought StarCraft HD came out a few years ago and was called StarCraft II.
I'd love HD versions of Diablo 2 and WC3 tho. I'd pay $20 (for both not each...) and even maybe play them for a bit.

 

[thesheeep]

Yeah I get the feeling they will also mess with other stuff like the twelve units per group limit for the sake of what they will claim is convenience.

But having more than 12 selected units is for the sake of convenience. Or do you enjoyed that?

Enjoyability is such a subjective concept. Would you enjoy getting crushed in 10 minutes by zergs who make nothing but mutas?

'Cause that's what would happen if you removed the limit. Probably even if you just increased it to 20 or so.

Well, maybe they should have designed a system that won't fall apart if not held together by bullshit restrictions like limited unit selections. It's a plague in every game that has it.

And actually, that isn't even case here (the system not holding together without it, I mean)! This restriction really does not make any sense at all in SC.
The production capabilities are what limits the amount of units, not how many you got selected.

And if you got 20 mutas in one group, the other player might match up with 30 of whatever kind of unit is good against them. The restrictions are restricting everyone equally so lifting that nonsense frees everyone equally as well.

Besides, I can practically guarantee you the restriction is a result of technical limitations at some point and have just be kept alive because some people claim they got any use to them.

 

[Trodat]

I thought StarCraft HD came out a few years ago and was called StarCraft II.
I'd love HD versions of Diablo 2 and WC3 tho. I'd pay $20 (for both not each...) and even maybe play them for a bit.

Blizzard is making a HD version of Diablo 2, I'm pretty sure that was confirmed.

 

[ArchAngel]

Yeah I get the feeling they will also mess with other stuff like the twelve units per group limit for the sake of what they will claim is convenience.

But having more than 12 selected units is for the sake of convenience. Or do you enjoyed that?

Enjoyability is such a subjective concept. Would you enjoy getting crushed in 10 minutes by zergs who make nothing but mutas?

'Cause that's what would happen if you removed the limit. Probably even if you just increased it to 20 or so.

Well, maybe they should have designed a system that won't fall apart if not held together by bullshit restrictions like limited unit selections. It's a plague in every game that has it.

And actually, that isn't even case here (the system not holding together without it, I mean)! This restriction really does not make any sense at all in SC.
The production capabilities are what limits the amount of units, not how many you got selected.

And if you got 20 mutas in one group, the other player might match up with 30 of whatever kind of unit is good against them. The restrictions are restricting everyone equally so lifting that nonsense frees everyone equally as well.

Besides, I can practically guarantee you the restriction is a result of technical limitations at some point and have just be kept alive because some people claim they got any use to them.

In Sc1BW, limited unit selection was a design choice.

 

[thesheeep]

How do you know?
Not that I wouldn't believe it - the power of habit is a strong one -, but that is quite a statement.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

I thought StarCraft HD came out a few years ago and was called StarCraft II.
I'd love HD versions of Diablo 2 and WC3 tho. I'd pay $20 (for both not each...) and even maybe play them for a bit.

Blizzard is making a HD version of Diablo 2, I'm pretty sure that was confirmed.

Just rumours.

 

[ArchAngel]

How do you know?
Not that I wouldn't believe it - the power of habit is a strong one -, but that is quite a statement.

I cba to find a source so you will have to believe me but I know because I am kind of deep into sc community (I have been visiting Team Liquid daily since 2010 when Sc2 was in beta) and I have read that there where they often have Sc2 vs Sc1BW discussions.

 

[Destroid]

Artificial difficulty.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

So, this is coming: actually never?

 

[Morgoth]

So, this is coming: actually never?

Just another rumor.

 

[bonescraper]

Not looking forward to this. They are too damn arrogant, I don't trust them to stay faithful... I can't imagine modern Blizzard doing this:



"StarCraft 1 is too dark and depressing, it needs more love stories and kahehameha battles."

You can't imagine them ripping off Coppola?

 

[Makabb]

There is no way the Blizzard of today would make a quality HD remake of Starcraft.

 

[RhodokMasterRaceOfficial]

Besides, I can practically guarantee you the restriction is a result of technical limitations at some point and have just be kept alive because some people claim they got any use to them.

It can't have been a technical limitation since a large number of the other RTSes of Brood War's time period started to drop the selection limit, and the selection limit was something that had effectively vanished from all non-Blizzard games by the time of Warcraft 3.
Removing the limit killed half of the complex mechanics and, as a result, the skill-cap that made Brood War's players at the highest level so different from eachother. Brood War's absurdly high skill cap is the primary thing which facilitated it being a fun Esport to watch (and play) without having to spice up the scene the way SC2 did with unprofessional bullshit out-of-game antics such as the nonsense idra was known for. Stop shilling for this faggotry and go play Command And Conquer or Age of Empires 2 if you want an easy (or as you prefer, "non-restrictive") RTS to play.

If this forum was called RTSCodex instead, these people would be our fucking bethesdrones.

 

[Morgoth]

There is no way the Blizzard of today would make a quality HD remake of Starcraft.

Precicely, and they even admitted it. Their artists simply don't know how to make 2D/sprite art anymore.

 

[thesheeep]

Besides, I can practically guarantee you the restriction is a result of technical limitations at some point and have just be kept alive because some people claim they got any use to them.

It can't have been a technical limitation since a large number of the other RTSes of Brood War's time period started to drop the selection limit, and the selection limit was something that had effectively vanished from all non-Blizzard games by the time of Warcraft 3.
Removing the limit killed half of the complex mechanics and, as a result, the skill-cap that made Brood War's players at the highest level so different from eachother. Brood War's absurdly high skill cap is the primary thing which facilitated it being a fun Esport to watch (and play) without having to spice up the scene the way SC2 did with unprofessional bullshit out-of-game antics such as the nonsense idra was known for.

Did you even read the sentence you were quoting?
"at some point" does not mean when they decided on it for Brood War or even the first Starcraft. This "mechanic" goes waaay back.
And when it started, the reason was likely "well, we can fit X portraits in here, so let's just make that a limit".

After a while, people started imagining this required some kind of skill.
The skill of pressing Ctrl+[0-9] and remembering a handful of things at once. Wow. Are you fucking kidding me?

If this forum was called RTSCodex instead, these people would be our fucking bethesdrones.

Talking about Ifs...
if RTS developers started to actually create games that could be played by a majority of players instead of just catering to the same handful that probably make up the (extremely sparse) population of every "great" RTS out there, the genre could get out of its niche and we might even get some interesting games instead of just endless copies of StarCraft or C&C. The actually interesting and original RTS releases in the last 10 years can probably be counted on one hand.

Imagine every single RPG out there being a repainted copy of Wizardry. That is the RTS scene today for the most part. Good only for those very few digging exactly that and not even looking for some variety.

 

[Average Manatee]

if RTS developers started to actually create games that could be played by a majority of players instead of just catering to the same handful that probably make up the (extremely sparse) population of every "great" RTS out there, the genre could get out of its niche and we might even get some interesting games instead of just endless copies of StarCraft or C&C. The actually interesting and original RTS releases in the last 10 years can probably be counted on one hand.

The majority of people are unable to play SC1 or WC3? Seems you are actually upset that newbies with 20 hours in SC1 can't play in the same league as pros with 2000 hours.

 

[RhodokMasterRaceOfficial]

After a while, people started imagining this required some kind of skill.
The skill of pressing Ctrl+[0-9] and remembering a handful of things at once. Wow. Are you fucking kidding me?

t. a cuck and/or shill who has never really watched or played Brood War at any respectable level of skill.

You are so ignorant that nothing you could possibly say on this subject is worth reading.

 

[thesheeep]

The majority of people are unable to play SC1 or WC3? Seems you are actually upset that newbies with 20 hours in SC1 can't play in the same league as pros with 2000 hours.

I am not at all upset about that. That is as it should be.

The problem is that the entry skill barrier (which is not skill cap) is so high that most gamers don't even bother firing up or buying these games.
You have to take care of so many things at once.
Even if these things come mostly natural to you and me due to growing up with it or just teaching yourself... the fact is that the majority of even actual gamers do not posses that kind of multitasking and staying-on-top-of-things skill.
Their train of thought is "RTS? Will never be able to play that. Ignored.", which cannot be a positive thing for a genre.

What fools like RhodokMasterRaceOfficial do not realize is that I am not at all arguing against a high skill cap.
That is a good thing. Not every game in a genre has to have that, of course, but at least the more competitively oriented games should have a high skill cap.

What I am arguing against is that a selection limit has anything to do with skill cap. It just doesn't.
Of course it makes sense to organize your army into certain groups and access them separately. I'm not saying that shouldn't be possible, I'd even say it is a must.
What I'm saying is by the time you reach a certain skill level in these games you have become so acquainted with the grouping mechanics and controls that the selection limit isn't even an issue any more. You simply wouldn't put all your soldiers into just one or two big blobs any more, even if you could.
So at the skill region near the skill cap, the limit has little to no influence any more.

But for those new to the genre, this selection limitation is yet another barrier put in front of them to overcome. They already struggle keeping a base running and at the same time managing even a single army. This is already more than enough for a new player to tackle and build up the skill set for the higher challenges like managing multiple armies, efficient economy, scouting, raiding, etc. etc.

So what a selection limit actually does is increasing the entry skill barrier without having any significant influence on the skill cap. What would be the purpose of that? Growing some elitist prick community? Or do you really think removing the selection limit would suddenly bring pro players into trouble against players less good at managing various groups at the same time? Certainly not.
But if the entry skill barrier for those games was lower, that would mean more players, which would mean more and - IMO more importantly - more varied games.
It worked fine with shooters and RPGs, but RTS games are still all extremely similar.

t. a cuck and/or shill who has never really watched or played Brood War at any respectable level of skill.

Not Brood War, that is true. "Just" SC1 and 2 and WC3. Never in the very top leagues, sure, I just realized I didn't want to spend the time required to git that gud. Too many other games I want(ed) to play. I was always somewhere in the "medium" ranges. But I know more than enough to talk about it with knowledge.

But then again, you might be one of those people claiming you have to be a soccer player to understand the rules and discuss about it.

You are so ignorant that nothing you could possibly say on this subject is worth reading.

 

[GrainWetski]

There is no way the Blizzard of today would make a quality HD remake of Starcraft.

Obviously. They're too busy caring about "diversity" in their shitty shooter.

 

[AMG]

Limiting unit selection was a design choice since Warcraft 1, if this guy http://www.codeofhonor.com/blog/the-making-of-warcraft-part-1 is to be believed. I assume inability to select multiple buildings was done for the same reasons. The SC2 team was also reluctant to lift the restriction and in some interview Rob Pardo, who was lead at the time, said it took him half a year to convince them to do it.
As far as Stacraft goes, removing selection limit definitely would influence the game. Being able to have 30 mutas in your stack would probably warp the game on its own. Anyways who cares, there is no SC remake being done, neither Diablo.

 

[RhodokMasterRaceOfficial]

I am not at all arguing against a high skill cap.

That is exactly what you're doing. In fact it is all you have done. What you want is pretty much, for the RTS genre, the equivalent of "character classes are too restrictive" and "turn based combat is boring". I still stand by the factual statement that if this were RTSCodex you and everyone who agrees with you would be our bethesdrones.

blublublublu selection limits are bad for new players blublublbu
Fuck new players.

 

[Average Manatee]

We already have the dumbed down RTS games with a low skill cap that are inviting for new players that thesheeep wants. We call them MOBAs. You only have to focus on controlling 1 unit with 4 hotkeys and even if you lose you can just blame the other people on your team so your precious pre-school level ego isn't damaged.

 

[thesheeep]

I am not at all arguing against a high skill cap.

That is exactly what you're doing. In fact it is all you have done. What you want is pretty much, for the RTS genre, the equivalent of "character classes are too restrictive" and "turn based combat is boring".

You are 100% percent incapable of doing actual arguments, aren't you?
I mean, it is pretty obvious by now that you don't even try to read what I am saying. Or maybe you do not posses the capabilities of understanding it, instead just making up points that I was never even making just to argue against them.
Where the hell you pull that stuff out of your ass is completely beyond me, as it has 0 relation to anything I've said.

Okay, I'll make this easy for the likes of you:
How exactly would removing the selection limit influence skill cap (not entry skill barrier)?

Now you are supposed to bring an argument which I will then dismantle with ease.
Or you could just continue to do what you do best and spout raging bullshit without any content. The second might be more amusing.
Both will prove my point in the end.

blublublublu selection limits are bad for new players blublublbu
Fuck new players.

Thank god people like you have no say in game development or all we would be playing would be the 1000th iteration of Wizardry 1 and Commander Keen with 0 variation.
You are the plague of gaming community (more so than even consoletards) and thankfully, no developer with a brain in his head would listen to bullshit like that.
Fuck new players? Oh, wow

We already have the dumbed down RTS games with a low skill cap that are inviting for new players that thesheeep wants. We call them MOBAs.

Yes, that is exactly what I want.
Can you please come out of your ass and do something other than shitposting or do I have to waste another wall of text here like I seem to be forced for that other guy?

 

[Average Manatee]

Okay, I'll make this easy for the likes of you:
How exactly would removing the selection limit influence skill cap (not entry skill barrier)?

See SC2 vs. SC1. SC2 is boring to watch as everyone simply deathballs their army and runs into each other. Even after two expansions and a huge number of balance attempts Blizzard hasn't really been able to fix this issue.

Yes, that is exactly what I want.
Can you please come out of your ass and do something other than shitposting or do I have to waste another wall of text here like I seem to be forced for that other guy?

In case you didn't notice custom maps like DotA/AoS and others were the maps for casuals to screw around with on WC3/SC1 and were perfectly fine as a kind of easy mode RTS practice.