Starfield Thread - now with Shattered Space horror expansion

[Jarmaro]

Not feeling like reading every page of this thread, so it might have been already discussed, but...what do you guys think about the post-Creation Kit release state of Starfield?

Let's take a step back and try to see the things from a Bethesda's perspective, possibly a bit more positively than it should be seen: Starfield has currently low reputation and is lambasted left and right, but so was Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 4 and Fallout 76. Nowhere to the same degree, but still. They are used to this. Bethesda made this game with a long-term plan of support, not in any positive "constant content updates", but with a vision of harnessing the power of the community through the creation club.

Except the Creation Kit is late, way too late compared to their other titles. For Fallout 4 it took around 5 months. We are approaching almost a year without modding tools for Starfield, and the less said about the DLCs released so far the better. Starfield is not looking too well right now.

But. Buuuut. Everything Bethesda has done over the years and Todd's various statements in the showcases and interviews shows a certain belief in modding community that goes further along than just 'modders will fix that'. The community has been ready to start modding since the release and is literally begging Bethesda to do the job for them. This is where that strange vision comes into play. I think everyone knows of Bethesda's attempts at monetizing modding by now, and like every big game company they are relentless in the pursuit of money.

What I've heard lately on Reddit and Discord is very interesting. Bethesda has been in contact with major modders for Skyrim and Fallout 4 for some time, giving them beta releases of the Creation Kit for Starfield, working with them to gain feedback and brainstorm over the approach to the engine and the tools. Allegedly some changes made modders rather upset, but that's beside the point, other than showing Bethesda is taking it seriously. Just recently they had some modders literally flought to bethesda's studio for a tour:


To my knowledge, the people who have access to the beta Creation Kit are people like EnaiSiaion - the creator of the most popular gameplay overhaul for Skyrim, Ordinator - or Kinggath, the creator of Sim Settlements, a great mod for Fallout 4 that pushed its settlement building system to the limit while also providing several chapters of story alongside it, very well received to my knowledge. Todd Howard himself cited Sim Settlements as an example of great modding.

Bethesda wasn't blind to Kinggath achievements in particular and semi-hired him for leading a team of modders making Creation Club content, which resulted in East Empire Expansion Creation Club mod, decent from what I've heard. Except now you pay for it, not download it for free. Well, the guy mods well, so good for him to be recognized and making a bank from working by modding full-time.

However, this shows the sinister approach of Bethesda to modding and the probable future for Starfield. You know that the modders weren't just sitting idly and giving random feedback to Bethesda, they've been making mods the entire time they had the tools in early access. They probably already cooked a lot of content, big or small. Bethesda's goals for Starfield are long-term and founded on belief the community will make the effort to enrich the game, and by using the big modders and giving them the tools months ahead they can ensure that there are some big mods being released right away alongside the Creation Kit.


Now, there are three futures that I see:

Good Ending: Great modders have worked tirelessly to make competent gameplay overhauls, new story content (not main story, obviously) and improve base building into something useful and fun. These mods are getting dropped for free at the same time Creation Kit is released or soon after, either on Nexus Mods or as free Creation Club content with the blessing of Todd Howard himself. The community is happy, as at this point getting anything is like being granted water on a desert.

Bad Ending: Great modders have worked tirelessly and after Creation Kit is released you will be able to enjoy their wonderful mods that make Starfield vastly better experience...right after you pay the price for those mods on the Creation Club website. Nothing's free, the community melts down and the money flows. The greed wins. That would be shortsighted and not work in favour of long-term Starfield support, but a corporation wouldn't kneecap a project's long-term earnings by focusing on short-term money benefits, right...?

No-Hope-Left Ending: Modders have done nothing substantial as the mooding tools were half-baked so far. Vastly delayed Creation Kit launches after a year from release with nothing to show for it. The mods are being make from scratch once the tools are released, so it will be another year or two before we see anything worth looking at. The modding community for Starfield never reaches its potential and remains a shadow to Fallout and Skyrim's. The Starfield slowly dies, disappearing from sight of everyone.

 

[ind33d]

Starfield just needs an FCOM-style rebalance and better loot tables. A few dungeons and additional POIs thrown into the planet generation would solve most of the issues. All the tilesets are already made. Just copy Star Explorers, give the NPCs bigger titties, 10/10 IGN

 

[markec]

The issue is that not many people find Starfield interesting. Even if the modding tools are great and mods completely free it will not matter if there are not many modders willing to invest time on it.

 

[Late Bloomer]

Not feeling like reading every page of this thread, so it might have been already discussed, but...what do you guys think about the post-Creation Kit release state of Starfield?

I read your entire post. To answer your question though, I don't think Starfield will ever have a redemption arc. The Creation Kit will not help Starfield become a good game. Modders with interest and the skill to manifest that interest (heh autism) will not help. Starfield released and died with a whimper and will stay that way. Sure, the DLC will bring eyes, people trying to justify the money, hoping and praying that Bethesda will be able to channel some of that old magic (yeah yeah laugh it up) that made them special, but it wont work. Starfield is not what anyone wanted nor asked for. ES6 / F5 (whichever comes first as that shit for brains tv show might change things) will be their last hurrah. I don't think they have the skill, the leadership, nor the will to make a good game. It's over.

 

[Gargaune]

Starfield is not what anyone wanted nor asked for.

This is the most bizarre part of it for me - why Todd Inc. went for this thing in the first place. I can understand a creative's yearning for novelty, but let's face it, big subsidiary studios don't operate on concern over staff boredom. Bethesda already had two healthy IPs to leapfrog in the Elder Scrolls and Fallout, so I can only imagine the impetus for Starfield (the fiction and the IP) was driven by a design aspiration, maybe the idea that they were on to some procedural tech that needed a space setting to be fully leveraged... Except that was clearly not the case in retrospect, and what they got was a lacklustre fiction, a boring random map generator, and a disjointed rendition of their "classic" Bethesda experience that even modders can't and won't try to fix.

So it was just a plain ol' mistake? Okay, sure, but it just seems like a very expensive mistake from an otherwise veteran outfit in the industry. It's just weird seeing authors get things so wrong about their own creations, though it's no uncommon.

 

[Hammer Of The Heretics]

I got to watch the Fire Phone debacle from the inside. Sometimes otherwise decent organizations do make really expensive mistakes.

 

[ind33d]

Starfield is not what anyone wanted nor asked for.

This is the most bizarre part of it for me - why Todd Inc. went for this thing in the first place. I can understand a creative's yearning for novelty, but let's face it, big subsidiary studios don't operate on concern over staff boredom. Bethesda already had two healthy IPs to leapfrog in the Elder Scrolls and Fallout, so I can only imagine the impetus for Starfield (the fiction and the IP) was driven by a design aspiration, maybe the idea that they were on to some procedural tech that needed a space setting to be fully leveraged... Except that was clearly not the case in retrospect, and what they got was a lacklustre fiction, a boring random map generator, and a disjointed rendition of their "classic" Bethesda experience that even modders can't and won't try to fix.

So it was just a plain ol' mistake? Okay, sure, but it just seems like a very expensive mistake from an otherwise veteran outfit in the industry. It's just weird seeing authors get things so wrong about their own creations, though it's no uncommon.

because in development it was simulationist. what do you think happened? some 75 IQ grugs playtested Starfield, ran out of Helium, got stranded on Arrakis, and died of dysentery, so daddy government sanded off all the sharp edges so nobody's feelings got hurt. it's like that fucking Half-Life 2 hallway where some retard kept going left for three hours

 

[markec]

Starfield is not what anyone wanted nor asked for.

This is the most bizarre part of it for me - why Todd Inc. went for this thing in the first place. I can understand a creative's yearning for novelty, but let's face it, big subsidiary studios don't operate on concern over staff boredom. Bethesda already had two healthy IPs to leapfrog in the Elder Scrolls and Fallout, so I can only imagine the impetus for Starfield (the fiction and the IP) was driven by a design aspiration, maybe the idea that they were on to some procedural tech that needed a space setting to be fully leveraged... Except that was clearly not the case in retrospect, and what they got was a lacklustre fiction, a boring random map generator, and a disjointed rendition of their "classic" Bethesda experience that even modders can't and won't try to fix.

So it was just a plain ol' mistake? Okay, sure, but it just seems like a very expensive mistake from an otherwise veteran outfit in the industry. It's just weird seeing authors get things so wrong about their own creations, though it's no uncommon.

Maybe I am wrong but I remember reading somewhere that this was Todds dream project, something he always wanted to make. Imagine having a complete creative freedom, huge company and endless money on your disposal to make a game you want, that is a dream of any gamer.

Just to be informed that certain features needs to be cut, some elements scaled down. All due lack of talent capable of staying true to your vision, being forced to compromise just to make the game reality.

Only for the end product to be a soulless husk of a game that only people who want to justify money spent pretend to enjoy.

Fitting end for Todd, to have his dream hollowed out just like he did to TES and Fallout, two beloved franchises.

 

[Konjad]

Starfield is not what anyone wanted nor asked for.

This is the most bizarre part of it for me - why Todd Inc. went for this thing in the first place. I can understand a creative's yearning for novelty, but let's face it, big subsidiary studios don't operate on concern over staff boredom. Bethesda already had two healthy IPs to leapfrog in the Elder Scrolls and Fallout, so I can only imagine the impetus for Starfield (the fiction and the IP) was driven by a design aspiration, maybe the idea that they were on to some procedural tech that needed a space setting to be fully leveraged... Except that was clearly not the case in retrospect, and what they got was a lacklustre fiction, a boring random map generator, and a disjointed rendition of their "classic" Bethesda experience that even modders can't and won't try to fix.

So it was just a plain ol' mistake? Okay, sure, but it just seems like a very expensive mistake from an otherwise veteran outfit in the industry. It's just weird seeing authors get things so wrong about their own creations, though it's no uncommon.

Maybe I am wrong but I remember reading somewhere that this was Todds dream project, something he always wanted to make. Imagine having a complete creative freedom, huge company and endless money on your disposal to make a game you want, that is a dream of any gamer.

Just to be informed that certain features needs to be cut, some elements scaled down. All due lack of talent capable of staying true to your vision, being forced to compromise just to make the game reality.

Only for the end product to be a soulless husk of a game that only people who want to justify money spent pretend to enjoy.

Fitting end for Todd, to have his dream hollowed out just like he did to TES and Fallout, two beloved franchises.

And this is a good thing. Todd Low IQ "Who's laughing now" Howard ends up being proven a scamming retard, Gaider's masterpiece with his amazing writing gets a few hundred players tops, while Larian sells bagzillions of copies of a turn-based RPG.

Bethesda deserves this for what they made Fallout to become.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

And although Howard thinks that's "perfectly understandable," he says it's just not the experience Starfield sets out to provide. "I do think for us—particularly me—going into a science-fiction game, I want to be able to land on all the planets. I want the game to say 'Yes' to us, knowing that that content is gonna be different than you've seen from us in the past."

I like Todd but his head seems stuck in, like, 1990. He still seems to think Starflight is the pinnacle of gaming because you can "go anywhere" (which was also his favourite thing about Arena, apparently). Doesn't matter that there's nothing to actually do when you land, the appeal is simply that you can go anywhere.

If Starfield had released in 1990 - exact same game, but with older technology and released on DOS - it would definitely have been an all-time classic that people would still be playing/pretending to have played today, and would have been absolutely seismic and influenced games to this day. But it's not 1990, it's 2024, and I don't get how he can still think it's impressive to be able to click on a planet and be greeted with a giant empty procgen space with nothing in it. Even Mass Effect already did this with the shitty Mako maps. His "dream game" is shit that's already been done over and over again. He literally thinks, speaks and acts like someone who's been in a coma for three decades and has just woke up.

Next up he'll release a game that plays exactly like Wolfenstein 3D and enthuse that "it's my dream game because you're in first person, it's like you're really there".

I'm pretty sure he doesn't play non-Bethesda games that aren't sport games. He never did, and he is simply not interested in playing. That's why he's so out of touch that he has no idea 'you can travel anywhere' in hundreds of games by now - for him Starfield was the first game he could travel anywhere.

Starfield didn't even had proper maps on release, it's clearly not in the intended state. Covid fucked them over and they had to greatly scale down the game, like the removed fuel system. Since points of interest can be more easily added later it was probably the first thing to cut to be able to release it in time (which Todd and Cheng sold as "we could have more planets but we left it at 1000" and "not all will have life because it's more realistic that way")

https://fandomwire.com/starfield-cut-due-to-covid/

 

[Konjad]

Yeah, covid must've killed all the skilled developers at Bethesda.

 

[Odoryuk]

FF14 treatment anytime soon.

 

[Harthwain]

I think everyone knows of Bethesda's attempts at monetizing modding by now, and like every big game company they are relentless in the pursuit of money.

And I think this will be the final nail to the coffin, if they prioritize squeezing money over gaining more long-term support for their game via modding.

The first reason why modding worked was because Bethesda's games were easy to mod however people wanted. This isn't the case with Starfield and I wouldn't be surprised if there were limits to that still, even with Creation Kit. The second reason why modding worked was because mods were accessible for people for free. As far as I am aware, Skyrim Creation Club for "official" mods was ultimately a failure. I see no reason why a similar attempt in Starfield would yield better results, especially with the lack of free modding.

 

[Tyrr]

Bethesda must be shitting their pants with MS going on a rampage against useless game studios right now.

 

[Yosharian]

A mod like Ordinator or Sim Settlements presents itself as a value proposition: is it worth the time and hassle to install this thing, make sure it's working, then play it and risk it being utter trash that makes the game worse.

When you add a price tag to that, my response is that you can go fuck yourself.

Not to mention that most of these overhaul-style modders are morons who play with base Fallout 4/Skyrim, and so their mods are basically impossible to integrate into larger lists.

The vast majority of larger mods are utter trash quite honestly. The best mods are ones that modify existing game mechanics to make them much better, or improve vastly on what's already there in some way.

 

[ind33d]

Bethesda must be shitting their pants with MS going on a rampage against useless game studios right now.

if MS were serious about making video games they would pay a third party $20 an hour to shit out POIs for Starfield. if microsoft could just sell black women instead of entertainment products, they would. that's clearly all they care about. i'm actually convinced that every free market company is bankrupt and the entire "economy" runs on ESG bucks

 

[Cologno]

I think you're one of about 30 people who still think whatever this economic system the West calls a "freemarket" is actually that. Not knocking, revelations in recent years made quite astonishing how established the governments were in the tech industry from the beginning.

 

[Konjad]

Bethesda must be shitting their pants with MS going on a rampage against useless game studios right now.

 

[Robotigan]

Bethesda must be shitting their pants with MS going on a rampage against useless game studios right now.

if MS were serious about making video games they would pay a third party $20 an hour to shit out POIs for Starfield. if microsoft could just sell black women instead of entertainment products, they would. that's clearly all they care about. i'm actually convinced that every free market company is bankrupt and the entire "economy" runs on ESG bucks

Maybe you grognards should spend less time in fantasy economies and more time in the real world economy so you don't have to guess how stuff works based on the ramblings of unemployed youtubers.

 

[ind33d]

Bethesda must be shitting their pants with MS going on a rampage against useless game studios right now.

if MS were serious about making video games they would pay a third party $20 an hour to shit out POIs for Starfield. if microsoft could just sell black women instead of entertainment products, they would. that's clearly all they care about. i'm actually convinced that every free market company is bankrupt and the entire "economy" runs on ESG bucks

Maybe you grognards should spend less time in fantasy economies and more time in the real world economy so you don't have to guess how stuff works based on the ramblings of unemployed youtubers.

my IQ is so high whenever a girl gives me a blowjob and swallows she gets admitted into MENSA

 

[Infinitron]

Inspired by space itself, Bethesda Game Studios and composer Inon Zur collaborate on bringing Starfield’s universe to life.

From the moment the game starts with the main theme, “Into The Starfield,” to the closing notes of "A Home in the Galaxy," Starfield’s score embodies the notion of exploration, mystery and the wonder of space. Taking inspiration from the natural world and the synthetic, Inon Zur’s emotionally dynamic and epic score pushes the creative boundary of sci-fi themed orchestral music.

00:00:00 1 Into the Starfield (Main Theme)
00:02:49 2 Planetrise
00:04:49 3 Go Steady, Go Safe
00:07:48 4 Fleet Scum
00:11:29 5 First Flight
00:15:08 6 The Sol System
00:19:46 7 New Atlantis
00:23:43 8 Peaks and Valleys
00:28:11 9 Starlight Far from Home
00:32:47 10 Fine Work Under Pressure
00:34:02 11 Navigator Corps
00:36:26 12 The Safety of the Citizens
00:40:16 13 The Mountain Builders
00:44:47 14 Triumvirate
00:49:22 15 Ancient Forces
00:53:58 16 Exploration I – Home Planets
01:08:25 17 Constellations
01:13:16 18 Akila City
01:17:02 19 Freestar
01:20:35 20 The Red Land
01:24:49 21 You Make Your Cut, You Get Your Cut
01:29:12 22 Cutthroats
01:33:01 23 The Eye
01:37:30 24 Long Shadows
01:42:09 25 A Home Among the Stars
01:46:34 26 Field of Vision
01:50:56 27 Within the Walls
01:55:33 28 Deep Time
01:58:27 29 The New Old Frontier
02:01:54 30 The Rock
02:05:45 31 The World Machine
02:09:54 32 Exploration II – The Hills and the Mountains
02:18:41 33 Protector
02:19:27 34 The Last Explorers
02:23:48 35 Field Agent
02:27:17 36 In Silent Orbit
02:30:34 37 Cydonia
02:34:50 38 Trace
02:38:13 39 Tectonics
02:42:22 40 Dispatched
02:43:37 41 Sublevels
02:48:09 42 Hardness Scales
02:50:55 43 Heliosphere
02:55:48 44 Death and Crimson
02:58:49 45 Abandoned
03:02:35 46 Chamber
03:06:53 47 Supra Et Ultra
03:10:15 48 Echo Marker
03:14:05 49 Exploration III – Explorers Club
03:25:24 50 Defender
03:26:08 51 Weapons to Bear
03:28:34 52 The Ghosts of Science
03:31:27 53 Ecliptic
03:33:08 54 Decay Heat
03:37:38 55 Neon
03:41:25 56 Rook
03:42:35 57 Exploration IV – Vulcanism
03:51:57 58 Core Sample
03:55:47 59 Tenacity of Life
04:00:01 60 Wrecked Tech
04:02:55 61 Canopy
04:07:07 62 Spacers
04:08:25 63 Understory
04:12:38 64 Exploration V – Evergreen
04:23:02 65 Guardian
04:24:01 66 Stars and Sacrifice
04:27:07 67 Under a Distant Sun
04:31:43 68 Roughneck High-Tech
04:35:13 69 Badlanders
04:39:35 70 Exploration VI – Strange Sands
04:49:11 71 Moonbase
04:52:09 72 Boarded!
04:53:55 73 Snowball
04:56:55 74 Aurora
05:00:11 75 Deep Freeze
05:03:20 76 Exploration VII – The Ice Lands
05:13:48 77 Nobody’s Home
05:16:37 78 Exploration VIII – The Far Reaches
05:25:21 79 A Home in the Galaxy

 

[ind33d]

Inspired by space itself

It's empty and black?

 

[ind33d]

What the FUCK? I had 100 hours and didn't know you could make new LZs. How would anyone ever figure this out? No wonder reviewers didn't like the fucking game, none of the mechanics are even implied to exist in the first place. It's almost like you should have included a FUCKING MANUAL

 

[Robotigan]

What the FUCK? I had 100 hours and didn't know you could make new LZs. How would anyone ever figure this out? No wonder reviewers didn't like the fucking game, none of the mechanics are even implied to exist in the first place. It's almost like you should have included a FUCKING MANUAL

This is what everyone asked for. "The newer games are too casual and hand-holdy! Let me figure out the game systems on my own!" That's almost certainly why they didn't invest much into surface maps and why the story is very slow and self-directed. I think a lot of people need to get off their high horse and acknowledge they enjoy at least some convenience features.

 

[ind33d]

What the FUCK? I had 100 hours and didn't know you could make new LZs. How would anyone ever figure this out? No wonder reviewers didn't like the fucking game, none of the mechanics are even implied to exist in the first place. It's almost like you should have included a FUCKING MANUAL

This is what everyone asked for. "The newer games are too casual and hand-holdy! Let me figure out the game systems on my own!" That's almost certainly why they didn't invest much into surface maps and why the story is very slow and self-directed. I think a lot of people need to get off their high horse and acknowledge they enjoy at least some convenience features.

you can probably beat the entire game without realizing you can land ANYWHERE on a planet. the way the menus are structured, it seems like Daggerfall where you just pick a mission and automatically fast travel to the quest location. Oh my God, I guarantee zero people understand how even half of the mechanics work