Stellaris - Paradox new sci-fi grand strategy game

[Xamenos]

From the little I've seen, those mods just add stuff. Which is fine for sure, but the game's main problems are in the core mechanics. It needs a complete overhaul, and I'm not sure there's a mod for that.

 

[thesecret1]

What are some mods that make the game more fun? All the ones I knew are no longer being updated. I'm especially interested in something that makes the AI less retarded and more capable of putting up a fight

 

[Dayyālu]

It needs a complete overhaul, and I'm not sure there's a mod for that.

I don't know if ever a complete overhaul can save Stellaris if we want it to be a "real" 4x.

Let me sperg a little: I'm now playing Stellaris in MP with some pals and it's the best game ever to play with friends while talking about stuff. It's the most graphic-heavy party game I've ever played. I'd be bored to death if I didn't have people to play with, and most of the time is larping and bullshitting. You don't need brainpower to play Stellaris.

As a 4x game it's downright puzzling. It feels like it's developed by people that don't have the foggiest idea how a 4x is supposed to work, and all the DLCs add merely ... flavour and busywork, and of course endless *descriptions* that Paradox had to put into the game because everything is a boring number calculator. Why the fuck Stellaris has a billion events an' stuff to find? Because the game is boring as mud and you need to reward players with CK2esque funny events to keep even basic attention up. Development and colonization is a travesty gated by Influence and starlanes (because Paradox can't develop a working AI so the entire system is built to let the AI fake empire-building), combat is embarrassing, research is boring, exploration and random events are vignettes.... everything added in the DLCs that looks "cool" is rapidly revealed as nothing but flavour and % changes, and everything plays roughly the same.

What puzzles me, it's the success. Do people truly ignore the fuckhuge variety of space 4x that do everything better than Stellaris? Even lite options like Sword of the Stars 1 completely obliterate it in variety and gameplay , and let's not talk serious (or retrogaming) opposition.

Has Paradox managed to brainfog everyone?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Because the game is boring as mud and you need to reward players with CK2esque funny events to keep even basic attention up.

And that only helps with the early exploration phase. Late game is still boring as fuck, even with the apocalyptic events which they've added.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

What puzzles me, it's the success.

larper power.
stellaris is the only modern 4x which truly lets you create your own race from the ground up and larp to your heart's content. if you throw mods into the mix, the degree of customization is unbelievable.
also planetary bombardments and ethnic cleansings.

 

[Preben]

What puzzles me, it's the success.

larper power.
stellaris is the only modern 4x which truly lets you create your own race from the ground up and larp to your heart's content. if you throw mods into the mix, the degree of customization is unbelievable.
also planetary bombardments and ethnic cleansings.

Larp is the main answer. No other game lets you larp as an actual evil empire. One that actively genocides undesirables.

 

[Xamenos]

Larp is the main answer. No other game lets you larp as an actual evil empire. One that actively genocides undesirables.

I see you haven't played Master of Orion 2, or any of all the other 4x games that allow you to bomb planets until nothing alive remains on the surface.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Larp is the main answer. No other game lets you larp as an actual evil empire. One that actively genocides undesirables.

I see you haven't played Master of Orion 2, or any of all the other 4x games that allow you to bomb planets until nothing alive remains on the surface.

Stellaris is much more overt and detailed about it (e.g. having alien processing factories to serve as food or being able to biologically engineer slave races suitable for particular jobs).

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

Larp is the main answer. No other game lets you larp as an actual evil empire. One that actively genocides undesirables.

I see you haven't played Master of Orion 2, or any of all the other 4x games that allow you to bomb planets until nothing alive remains on the surface.

in stellaris i can bombard paradise planets until no living thing can exist on them anymore, perhaps raid them and kidnap people, or i can conquer them and make all its inhabitants slaves, maybe turn them into cattle instead, or have them exterminated and processed into soylent green.
nigga please, you picked the wrongest example.

 

[Xamenos]

Oh, please, spare me the nitpicking. Yes, Stellaris is a more detailed atrocity simulator. But it's far from the only game that "lets you larp as an actual evil empire. One that actively genocides undesirables." In fact, I challenge you to name space 4x games that do NOT let you genocide undesirables. Does a single one even exit?

 

[Dayyālu]

Larp is the main answer. No other game lets you larp as an actual evil empire. One that actively genocides undesirables.

Larper power explains it: but again, it's all so clumsily done. Let's keep Sword of the Stars 1 as an example: the Zuul, a race of evil marsupials, entirely works on slavery and stripmining planets and its economy is built on looting planets with specialized ships. Ah, everyone in the game gets genociding. Nuclear bombing. Bio bombing. USING MASS DRIVERS.

Have I told you that during the fully simulated tactical battles in SoTS1 your orbital bombardment ships are under your direct control and the UI has a fuckhuge button to let you fire when you want the death cannon? And it's a "light" 4x, with pre-done races and limited strategic overlay.

Stellaris has some very nice %s tho.

I'm not saying that Stellaris theoretically does not allow such stuff, but it's all boring % and all in your brain, with almost no meaningful gameplay impact (you don't have to get your slaver ships on planet and organize the raids!). it's pushing a button and the usual PARADOX PERCENTAGES change a bit.

It's like no one realizes there's a billion 4x that let you do the same. Just better and without PARADOX MARKETING POWER. Maybe it's merely that, marketing (people see Paradox and believe they know what they are doing).

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

Oh, please, spare me the nitpicking. Yes, Stellaris is a more detailed atrocity simulator. But it's far from the only game that "lets you larp as an actual evil empire. One that actively genocides undesirables." In fact, I challenge you to name space 4x games that do NOT let you genocide undesirables. Does a single one even exit?

endless space. both of them. here's two then, not just one. you failed again, this time doubly. wow.

 

[thesecret1]

Larp is the main answer. No other game lets you larp as an actual evil empire. One that actively genocides undesirables.

Larper power explains it: but again, it's all so clumsily done. Let's keep Sword of the Stars 1 as an example: the Zuul, a race of evil marsupials, entirely works on slavery and stripmining planets and its economy is built on looting planets with specialized ships. Ah, everyone in the game gets genociding. Nuclear bombing. Bio bombing. USING MASS DRIVERS.

Have I told you that during the fully simulated tactical battles in SoTS1 your orbital bombardment ships are under your direct control and the UI has a fuckhuge button to let you fire when you want the death cannon? And it's a "light" 4x, with pre-done races and limited strategic overlay.

Stellaris has some very nice %s tho.

I'm not saying that Stellaris theoretically does not allow such stuff, but it's all boring % and all in your brain, with almost no meaningful gameplay impact (you don't have to get your slaver ships on planet and organize the raids!). it's pushing a button and the usual PARADOX PERCENTAGES change a bit.

It's like no one realizes there's a billion 4x that let you do the same. Just better and without PARADOX MARKETING POWER. Maybe it's merely that, marketing (people see Paradox and believe they know what they are doing).

I don't think you understand just how LARP-driven stellaris is. LARPing is literally the only appeal it has, and it is the only thing that the developers focus on. Gameplay and such are secondary. You pick the ethics you want and then get appropriately flavoured interactions with everyone, everywhere. You constantly get events that serve as something interesting to read and perhaps choose a flavour-appropriate decision. You get a wide array of policies to enact that contain next to no gameplay benefit, yet give you a lot to LARP about (really, who really NEEDS soylent green? Having a surplus of food is so easy you never really have to convert aliens to food, but you do it anyway because it's fun).

This is the Paradox formula, to be honest. Take CK2 for example: all the mechanics are simple and conquering the game world is child's play – the gameplay is trash by any and all accounts. Yet people still love it because it lets them LARP.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Oh, please, spare me the nitpicking. Yes, Stellaris is a more detailed atrocity simulator. But it's far from the only game that "lets you larp as an actual evil empire. One that actively genocides undesirables." In fact, I challenge you to name space 4x games that do NOT let you genocide undesirables. Does a single one even exit?

endless space. both of them. here's two then, not just one. you failed again, this time doubly. wow.

You can kill pops in ES. Enslave, throw into blender to use their dna, it's just not as easy and always available as in other games. Didn't it also have planetary destruction before Stellaris?

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

only in a very very abstract way, as "spend 1 turn and pay 1 pop to earn 100 soldiers" which of course doesn't care for which pop you sacrifice, it's not like "fucking die already you xeno scum!".
only 1 race enslaves, and it's almost only a matter of a tag. actually, it's even pretty much against its own lore.
only 1 race blenders, and it's mostly a matter of moving a tag. actualy, it's heavily against its own lore.
and no, only one of the latest es2 expansions introduced planet killing and it's so deep into the tech tree by the time you build (let alone use) one of those the game has long finished.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

only in a very very abstract way, as "spend 1 turn and pay 1 pop to earn 100 soldiers" which of course doesn't care for which pop you sacrifice, it's not like "fucking die already you xeno scum!".
only 1 race enslaves, and it's almost only a matter of a tag. actually, it's even pretty much against its own lore.
only 1 race blenders, and it's mostly a matter of moving a tag. actualy, it's heavily against its own lore.
and no, only one of the latest es2 expansions introduced planet killing and it's so deep into the tech tree by the time you build (let alone use) one of those the game has long finished.

I'm not talking about the forced draft. I'm talking about enslaving and slowly draining planets of life and resource, outright eating pops, throwing them into blender, switching into your own, abducting pops to feed the lifeforce of your own or even a race that only accepts their own pops and outright deletes the others. Yes, it's available to some races, because unique races are like no1 shtick of the series and it's the same in every other strategy game - unless you micro every race when generating the map, you'll get a share of flower sniffing hippies. Still you have these options, also when creating your custom race.

I'm not sure what you mean about "a very very abstract way", it's a 4X game. Still, you get to see art of pops being abused, terrorized and fed upon which is way more explicit than anything you'll see in Stellaris.

Finally, you have said "both of them", ES1 allowed genociding planets from the orbit same as, for example, MoO2.

 

[thesecret1]

I think the first issue is that Stellaris' launch was frankly a mess. Game had to be overhauled like thrice, and even the over-hauled areas still feel they lack a lot.

It was a mess, but also charming in its own way. Consider the asymetry they tried to go through with the different FTL methods – you could see them being ambitious, at least, rather than trying to rehash something for the n-th time. Sadly, they weren't able to actually pull it off, and really, the entire development process of Stellaris speaks volumes about Paradox itself.

First of all, the constant, ever present performance issues. This means they either have very few experienced programmers, or that they have unreasonable deadlines. Seeing as how I can't imagine Stellaris being under extreme deadlines years after the launch, I suspect it's the first, but then again, maybe they only left some skeleton crew to chug out DLCs and don't give them time to go over and fix old code. In any case, it's a management failure. Paradox isn't so poor that it couldn't afford enough experienced manpower, so this falls squarely on their heads.

Second, their designers are bad. They are just bad. You do not need to overhaul the whole game several times unless your designers are shit. The % based mini modifiers are probably also a result of that, though it could also be a result of little time and/or resources (which would again fall on management) since it's very easy to tack on a small feature that just alters a couple numbers – basically the only thing you need is the GUI. What I think happened is that the designers were overly ambitious at the beginning, only to be either reigned in or replaced afterwards, their only job being fixing the game up and occassionally throwing in a new DLC. You can see it in the way that there weren't any really "big" things in any of the DLCs, mostly just polish or small features for things that were already there since launch, or some low effort % shit like the precursor artefacts and the like (and that was one of the "bigger" features they added).

Lastly, I believe Stellaris is on life support at this point, probably really only having some skeleton crew to address any major fires while pushing out a small DLC here and there, which may lead to a negative feedback loop of sorts. They don't get good crew and resources because they perform shittily, and they perform shittily because they don't have the people and resources to perform well.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

It was a mess, but also charming in its own way. Consider the asymetry they tried to go through with the different FTL methods – you could see them being ambitious, at least, rather than trying to rehash something for the n-th time. Sadly, they weren't able to actually pull it off, and really, the entire development process of Stellaris speaks volumes about Paradox itself.

they could have, but instead some retard pushed for the "muh multiplayeeeeh" and so everything fun has been axed one aspect after another.

 

[Mark.L.Joy]

Same multiplayer talk as main franchises, what's the percentage of people who even play multiplayer, isn't it super low? Why build your games around it.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

don't you know about the multi? everybody know that the multi is the word.

also multiplayer focused games require much much MUCH less effort and content.

 

[Delterius]

now now, stellaris is explicitly not balanced for multiplayer cof origins cof

MP is really just a multiplying agent for the Larp

friends summoning friends to larp and to become fun having gods

 

[lightbane]

They don't get good crew and resources because they perform shittily, and they perform shittily because they don't have the people and resources to perform well.

Don't forget the console editions which I still believe they're some sort of joke.
The SJW corruption of the company may have something to do with its decaying performance and lack of manpower.

 

[Xamenos]

Same multiplayer talk as main franchises, what's the percentage of people who even play multiplayer, isn't it super low? Why build your games around it.

I think I remember Johan admitting the % of the people who've played multi even once is in the single digits, but I can't be arsed to look for it. The number certainly sounds about right. As for why, MadMaxHellfire is absolutely right. No need to have a good AI when you're assuming your players will be playing only against other humans. And no need to have content and interesting mechanics when you assume they'll larp together and make things interesting for each other.

Don't forget the console editions which I still believe they're some sort of joke.
The SJW corruption of the company may have something to do with its decaying performance and lack of manpower.

Nice bogeyman, but I'm not convinced. SJW corruption is a symptom of upper management who have no idea what they're doing, not the cause. I blame the relentless pursuit for endless growth that happens with every publicly traded corporation. Paradox is simply doing what they think will maximize their profit while minimizing their costs.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

from the next dlc stellaris needs -a more fluid diplomacy, envoys are retarded, each one basically can turn anyone into an ally. anyone. of course not the -2000 people, but other than them, anyone, and it's idiotic.
-meaningful espionage, it has to be powerful, if well fueled i must be capable of make riots erupt everywhere in a whole empire, but considered how everything gets neutered and watered down in the name of multiplayer balance i have no hope in this at all. crime is a joke, a 100% crime planet only produces a little less while it should produce exactly 0 and be constantly rioting. hell, look at seattle and the 13% mostly peaceful protesters.
-internal affairs. i can't ask for ck degree of it but something can and should be done to shake the wait. maybe it's mods related but i had some leaders get called in duels at random or on being insulted. not much but it's something.

also a more interesting ground combat could help, and there are already mods to make space combat less predictable. a shame that both had great mods but they've been abandoned. i miss also planetary defenses in the form of system ships and ground cannons. there are the "at war" mods but they've been recently abandoned too.

 

[thesecret1]

CKIII has heavier reqs than both Stellaris and HOI 4, but it runs like a dream in comparison (althrough the temps do get a bit high in my comp and the game looks butt-ugly because I lack a dedicated card).
I don't remember EUIV having performance issues the last time I played it. Been a while tho.

Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis are Paradox's flagship titles, so of course they have all the manpower and resources they need. That's not the case for a game past its zenith like Stellaris though – there are many things hinting at it, but the fairly underwhelming DLCs are the biggest give away. Compare a flagship expansions that CK2 got, for example – you could see each one bringing something substantial to the table, something that really changed the game. But can anyone say that, for example, Lithoids really changed anything? I know the phase of development the lead of Stellaris is in – it's the phase where he needs to add content in order to draw in players again, yet doesn't have the resources to actually do that. So he starts thinking of how to make the most content and the smallest cost, and comes up with reskins and the like. Just throw in new species – it takes a bit of art, but not much, some code, but again, not much (plus, it'll be fairly modular, so no need to go deep into old code), and that's it – content is ready. It being zombies is just a marketing move since a lot of people will get drawn in with something this marketable (more than lithoids at least), and the saved time can be spent to fix bugs and tinker with balance.