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[Lyric Suite]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9BA7i3sgCU

Alan Keyes owns both these morons balls deep whilst barely even trying. He was probably going over his shopping list on the way home while he was making his point here.

Wow, that's some fucking pwnage right there.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Hmm.. to whom it was a ''pwnage'' may i ask? Without going into argument whether gays should be alowed to adopt children or not, that Alan Keys guy made quite a dumbass of himself there.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Hmm.. to whom it was a ''pwnage'' may i ask? Without going into argument whether gays should be alowed to adopt children or not, that Alan Keys guy made quite a dumbass of himself there.

No he didn't. It's Obama who made a complete ass out of himself.

Whether you agree with Keys or not, he's making a perfectly logical argument regarding the basic principle of marriage as an institution, which centers around procreation, not only in biological terms but also in a broader social sense. The union between a man and a woman is the basic foundation around which civilization is possible in the first place. Not only it guarantees the entry of new members of society, but through the combination of masculine authority and feminine nurturing it assures that those individuals are properly reared in the modes of civilized living. Brake the institution and society is going to revert back into barbarism very damn quick.

Now, take this basic principle away and the whole institution ceases to have any meaning. Why bother? Do people really need to be married in order to live their life together, if they so wish? Does it serve any real useful function?

The whole thing about gay marriage it's just another way for the feel-good brigade to further the cause of equality, an emotionally charged impulse which has no logical foundation, and that is demonstrated by the fact those who are in favor of gay marriage also happen to believe marriage isn't really that important and that it could be just easily set aside in favor of single parent households. How full of shit can you get?

Of course, Obama could have easily countered this argument pointing out whatever logical flaw he may have found (if any), instead, he decides to bring a completely irrelevant event in order to 'prove' that Keys is incapable of logic. That alone tells you that he's full of bullshit. Now, admittedly, the idea that adoption among homosexuals leads to incest may be extremely far fetched, however, from a logical point of view, the argument is sound (besides, we don't know the original context, Keys was merely defending the logic behind it, which was pertinent to the argument raised by Obama). The fact the same discourse applies to adoption between Heterosexual couples it's irrelevant. For all intended purposes Keys may be against all forms of adoption. What's relevant is that Obama failed to prove that Keys is incapable of logic, which in itself was just a red herring in the first place.

Keys may be perfectly right, he may be a raving lunatic, doesn't matter. If you are going to argue with somebody, then argue. Playing around with logical fallacies makes you look like an asshole.

 

[dagorkan]

How much did Alan Keyes get in the end? 35 percent? How did that happen - do Illinois conservatives not like voting for a black man and stay home?

 

[Gnidrologist]

snip

No arguing about the family as an institution mainly aroused for mentaining procreational process (which i don't care about anyway, but that's different story), but he's claim that adoption among homosexual couples somehow makes the adopted person more prone to incest due to inability to know the identity of his/her biological parent is exactly this:

Playing around with logical fallacies makes you look like an asshole.

 

[Krancor]

Keyes didn't win anything, though he defended his position as well as it could be defended - but marriage is not at al about just pocreation. If that were true no guy would ever get married unless he had already knocked a girl up. And then if it were, he would still need to explain all the people who have non intent or ability to marry who do, which he failed to do.

There was nothing here for obama to refute, logocally speaking, since Keyes didn't prove anything. Pointing out his earlier seemingly vivious attack was no doubt consrtrutive. If you want to complain it's 'dirty', well, just watch any reublican debating. That is their main tact. What logic ever shows up i political debates any more? If it does, itis murdered out of hand.

 

[kris]

Does your family live with you in the shelter, Cleve?

The shelter system is behind a modern, comfortable two story house that was constructed at the same time. Nobody lives in the shelter. It's a shelter, for emergencies.

If I didn't get this wrong the shelter seemed awfully small. I assume that means it is a temporary protection shelter for a nuclear attack. If you bury it in loads of concrete. so spill it out, what will that ting really be used for. (nonwithstanding my belief this will be just be a hobby project that you never will have use off)

If I was "Not Sure," I'd have escaped into the mountains and allowed that entire society to starve to death. Hey, come to think of it, that's exactly what I did.

Except we ain't exactly starving to death.

 

[kris]

Whether you agree with Keys or not, he's making a perfectly logical argument regarding the basic principle of marriage as an institution, which centers around procreation, not only in biological terms but also in a broader social sense. The union between a man and a woman is the basic foundation around which civilization is possible in the first place.

Marriage ain't needed for procreation and hardly is a foundation for civilization. It is there to provide safety.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Well, it's all true, but if we analyse the institutes of marriage and family from historical point of view, the most common thing one would put as a defining factor for both would be procreation. That not only includes mear child-bearing, but also securing a social unit purpose of which is to provide a shelter for continuation of generation.

I don't think arguing about this well accepted perception is needed. It's like some tes tards came here and start their tantrum about how rpg is any game in which you play a role and yada yada. There are some common aspects, that alowes us to define, if vaguely, what is and what is not rpg.

Anyway, that nigga's atempt to somhow corelate gay adoptions to incest is so inane that it isn't even funny, when considering it was said in public debate that was aired on tv.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Marriage licenses are bullshit to begin with, at least in the US. We didn't even have a state sponsor marriages until the south wanted to prevent white people from marrying minorities in the 20s. Than all of the sudden you needed a gov't contract to get hitched. Now the state is using this newfound power to keep gays from being married.

I could give a fuck if gays want to marry, let them if they really want it. I'd rather we got rid of state sponsored marriages altogether rather than regulating gays also. I'm not sure why they'd even want to buy into the system. I don't think the tax breaks are significant, and you'd probably get somewhere quicker if you put pressure on medical insurance company's to let your significant other be covered.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

The truth is, after thirty years of watching television, almost any biologically normal human being will have been permanently ruined for any kind of useful thinking about any subject. Trying to reason with such men is purely a waste of time. I could produce a thousand parallels to the current decay cycle and it would go straight in one ear and right out the other, just as Keyes affected his listeners in that debate.

For example, trying to bring up a dozen societies that allowed the hetero marital contract to be replaced with other arbitrary arrangements (like allowing two women to marry a swan) invariably results in the same outcome - within ten years, all the people in that civilization will die screaming, usually horribly ass-reamed and facialized by invaders who run over top of them as if they weren't even there. Which, in a biological sense, they aren't. A nation of strong hetero families and clans like the barbarians who overran Rome versus a bunch of toga-wearing queers and lesbian swan-rearing couples was a no-contest default match. Inside of about ten minutes of breaching the gates, you just had a lot of fruits running around screeching until they were cleanly decapitated by the Visigoths entering the streets. The entire social fabric of Rome had literally collapsed at that point and all the resistance they met with was a lot of confused dweebs yelling, grown men who spent their entire days in the harpsichordium jerking off and eating grapes. Strong hetero nation units VS Queer Companion Units = Genocidal Massacre in Five Minutes.

It's about to take place between the U.S. and China and for all their bluster, I predict that Amerikwa will make an even bigger crater than the Romans when their diversity wagon train of chronic masturbators/porn addicts makes contact with the brick wall of Chinese nuclear tipped cruise missiles. It will go down in history as the shortest war ever between to superpowers.

In six months the Chinese will sweep up and get the street lights back on, whereas Amerikwa will remain a bleached radioactive plain of debris for centuries afterwards. Future historians will read about the last days in which the legitimacy of poo-punchers forming mock families and adopting orphans to raise them as fellow goo-guzzlers ... and they'll shrug. It's just the same story of rise and decline, repeated over and over again through the centuries.

Guys like Alan Keyes are swimming against the tsunami. Anybody born with that kind of intelligence who spends it trying to explain the simplest ideas to the decadent sheeple is absolutely wasting his time and throwing his pearls before swine.

Future historians will record that Alan Keyes and Ron Paul were the last chance gas stations for the United States. The Oprah-watching halfwits drove right past the station in their packed VW Bug and headed straight out into the desert with a quarter tank, a juicebox and a pack of candy corn. They'll have a guy like Barack Obama reading the map and giving the driver directions and he will promptly steer that entire nation of fools off the nearest 300 foot cliff.

 

[Shannow]

In fact A.K. doesn't make a case against gay marriage but against children not knowing the identities of both their parents.
Now you can simply live with that threat to the gene pool or
[irony] you can only allow couples to have children if the would-be parents are members of different ethnic grooups. Of course this would only work for a few generations until there are no different ethnic groups are left. Another solution would be a genetical analysis of every newborn. It would then get a chip implanted in its hand. As an adult it would get an unpleasant tingling in its hand whenever it touched hands with somebody who has an incompatible gene code. You'd not only prevent incest but also make sure that people don't connect if their DNA shows risks of producing retards/cripples. Another great possibility would be monitoring the citizens through these chips. Every crime could be solved, people would only get adds that are really of interest to them and the authorities would have a better idea of developing public infrastructure.[/irony]

 

[Gnidrologist]

Also, it could be implemented that those chips would electroshock every time you think gay thoughts.

 

[spacemoose]

Strong hetero nation units

I want to hear more about these

 

[kris]

I was almost was tricked into a discussion about history with Cleve there.

 

[Gragt]

It still had a good start.

 

[serch]

Yes, because the decline of Roman Empire was about sexual tendencies and not about general corruption. Ask Alexander and his merry boys about how being gay make you a worse warmonger. Also, best alt in teh interwebs.

 

[El Dee]

I sleep better at night knowing that when I wake up there will be new lulz in this thread for my viewing pleasure.

 

[Soulforged]

I could produce a thousand parallels to the current decay cycle and it would go straight in one ear and right out the other, just as Keyes affected his listeners in that debate.

I'm listening, please do.

(...) Strong hetero nation units VS Queer Companion Units = Genocidal Massacre in Five Minutes.

The Spartans, as many other hellenic people prefered male company, there were various reasons for that, but they weren't exactly "strongly heterosexual", and they conquered the athenians and defended Thermopeliae. The romans were the military nation per exelence of antiquity, they didn't allow homosexuality but they didn't forbid it either, the notion of centralized State was non-existent in ancient times, so this subjects remained private, many of the leaders probably liked to taste homosexual sex themselves so they couldn't realistically forbid it. There's no example in the whole history of what you say, and you can be sure that the barbarian nations had as much homosexuality as any other, the military strength that conquered the romans at the end of the classical age came from their sheer numbers, and also the Empire was debilitated by years of corruption, a mixed army of lesser quality and other attacks they suffered not so many years in the past. Also, it seems you really don't know any homosexual, being one doesn't make you a coward or unable to fight, avoiding it and wanting peace doesn't either.

It's about to take place between the U.S. and China and for all their bluster, I predict that Amerikwa will make an even bigger crater than the Romans when their diversity wagon train of chronic masturbators/porn addicts makes contact with the brick wall of Chinese nuclear tipped cruise missiles. It will go down in history as the shortest war ever between to superpowers.

Why would the chinese start a war that could last for years and cost them a lot of money and man power (not to mention political power over their own dominion) when they could simply develope their own business and penetrate the american economy?

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

Yes, because the decline of Roman Empire was about sexual tendencies and not about general corruption. Ask Alexander and his merry boys about how being gay make you a worse warmonger. Also, best alt in teh interwebs.

Classic historical revisionism.

Now, where's your proof?

I think Alexander was made gay over the past twenty years as part of the war on western culture. Actual evidence that Alexander was gay? Close to nil. If you repeat anything enough times, it will become gospel with mediocre minds.

 

[Krancor]

Yes, because the decline of Roman Empire was about sexual tendencies and not about general corruption. Ask Alexander and his merry boys about how being gay make you a worse warmonger. Also, best alt in teh interwebs.

Classic historical revisionism.

Now, where's your proof?

I think Alexander was made gay over the past twenty years as part of the war on western culture. Actual evidence that Alexander was gay? Close to nil. If you repeat anything enough times, it will become gospel with mediocre minds.

That's like asking where the proof that Jim J. Bullock was gay is, or that batman and robin in the 70s version were gay.

For the modern military, and I'll just come out and say most military through all history, there is a strong tendency to be gay. Just as there is in the catholic priesthood. Where would a gay guy want to be most of all? In a locker room full of manly young men? Islam is about as outwardly antigay as ay place on the planet...yet full of gays. FULL. OF. GAYS.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

I could produce a thousand parallels to the current decay cycle and it would go straight in one ear and right out the other, just as Keyes affected his listeners in that debate.

I'm listening, please do.

(...) Strong hetero nation units VS Queer Companion Units = Genocidal Massacre in Five Minutes.

The Spartans, as many other hellenic people prefered male company, there were various reasons for that, but they weren't exactly "strongly heterosexual", and they conquered the athenians and defended Thermopeliae. The romans were the military nation per exelence of antiquity, they didn't allow homosexuality but they didn't forbid it either, the notion of centralized State was non-existent in ancient times, so this subjects remained private, many of the leaders probably liked to taste homosexual sex themselves so they couldn't realistically forbid it. There's no example in the whole history of what you say, and you can be sure that the barbarian nations had as much homosexuality as any other, the military strength that conquered the romans at the end of the classical age came from their sheer numbers, and also the Empire was debilitated by years of corruption, a mixed army of lesser quality and other attacks they suffered not so many years in the past. Also, it seems you really don't know any homosexual, being one doesn't make you a coward or unable to fight, avoiding it and wanting peace doesn't either.

It's about to take place between the U.S. and China and for all their bluster, I predict that Amerikwa will make an even bigger crater than the Romans when their diversity wagon train of chronic masturbators/porn addicts makes contact with the brick wall of Chinese nuclear tipped cruise missiles. It will go down in history as the shortest war ever between to superpowers.

Why would the chinese start a war that could last for years and cost them a lot of money and man power (not to mention political power over their own dominion) when they could simply develope their own business and penetrate the american economy?

See above post on the Spartans being gay.

Just like you, I have heard it said a thousand times over a thousand. Is it true yet? Was there any more incidence of pederasty amongst the Spartans than ordinary people? Maybe if you watch Spartacus enough times, you'd start to think so. Movie-reality would become more real for you than reality.

What about the movie "300?" Wasn't that reality? Weren't the Persians a bunch of gay tattooed circus freaks with nipple piercings? Edjumificated types concur. If you differ, go see the movie again.

I think the last 25 years of the 20th century were mainly occupied in completely rewriting the past 2000 years of history completely from scratch.

Yes, there were astonishing amounts of perversion in Rome near the end. The question is, what was Rome like during it's rise and ascension to empire? Did people snicker when you mentioned Romans because they were degenerate perverts? Or did they quake with fear at their ironman reputations and rumors they were a morally incorruptible people?

For example, if people in the future remember America as she has been only in the past 25 years, you would go through life thinking that Americans were a sick, diseased race of hideous mutant ejaculators who lived only for sexual gratification and drugs. Yet America for the prior 150 years was reknowned throughout the globe for the virtue, honesty and moral discipline and restraint of it's inhabitants. Another example - a citizen of the future viewing the United States on recorded tapes from 1980-2008 would get the impression they are a nation of dribbling illiterate morons. This is the same nation which was once fabled to have the grandest public education system in the history of mankind and the most intelligent, well informed and literate population ever.

Which of these things are true?

Was Spartan a nation of man-goo smoothie chuggers or was it in fact a nation of ass-bandits just in the last 30 years of it's existence before it was destroyed? See the connection there?

"Their emergence from shadows heralds the coming of demons and the destruction of correct speech and manners upon which the kingdom is raised." - Ancient Vedantic scripture on the influence of cornhole riders in civilizations ... our ancestors were seriously homophobic.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

I could produce a thousand parallels to the current decay cycle and it would go straight in one ear and right out the other, just as Keyes affected his listeners in that debate.

I'm listening, please do.

It's important to understand that biologically and then as an exercise in gene expression, you should not get the chicken before the egg. It's a symptom, just like the stink tells you your septic tank is busted.

It's not so much that homosexuals are initially the cause of the decline. They are absolutely, positively the last flag that goes up at the end of the descent phase in the curve. When you see them start to direct the apologetics of culture and generally have an influence completely unwarranted by what they have to contribute (nothing) then you know the final train wreck is right around the corner.

It's always a very brief period followed by forces either internal or external that will destroy it.

Civilizations are created and maintained solely for the protection of women and children. When parasites get so thick and numerous they begin to rewrite this primary foundation as merely incidental, trust me you need to pack your rice cuz' that society is about to crater.

People who have been reading my blog for the past ten years know that my biggest problem is not that I'm not right - it's that I'm too right for my own good. I'm so right that most lurkers have trouble understanding what they are reading.

This is one of those things you should not tax your brain about. Just trust me blindly the way you did all your other authority figures when you were growing up when I tell you ... this is the last flag before it all falls down.

If it doesn't come very, very soon, God will be obligated to issue a press release apologizing to Sodom and Gomorrah. Those nations were practically cub scout camps compared to the "modern" West. The whole western world is essentially one colossal neck-deep pool of scum and effluence.

You can't solve problems in these environments. That's why your bridges are falling down and your infrastructure looks like zimbabwe. Problems don't get solved. But it's much, much worse. Problems no longer even get identified. But it's much worse than that, too. People who can identify and solve problems (like Alan Keyes) get displaced for sociopaths and opportunists who do nothing but ride the whole wreck right down the greased rails into the ground only taking stuff out of it, never putting anything back in.

The United States today is a street riot where anything that can be dragged off or looted before it is all set ablaze is going quickly. Once it's stripped down, out will come the Molotovs. You better grab yours because it is rapidly approaching anarchy.

 

[TheLostOne]

Enlighten us with the way it really happened Cleve. We've all been brainwashed, but you've escaped this fate. Lead us to the light... but don't forget your citations.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Yes, because the decline of Roman Empire was about sexual tendencies and not about general corruption.

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/whatis/chap12.htm

Anybody remembers this? Why do you think a society becomes "corrupt", if not due the surge of wide spread matrism, of which tolerance for homosexuality is a visible symptom?