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[Kingston]

Kingcomrade stop trolling, you know Finland fucking rules.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Norway's cultural diversity has blossomed in recent years, and public policies are aimed at integrating various ethnic groups and promoting tolerance.

I guess they are talking about this: http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local ... 190268.ece

Multiculturalism and diversity - the great humanist cause! Yeah..

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/649

Support multiculturalism and boycott Israel now!

 

[DefJam101]

Just study the worst American serial killers to cheer you up ! BTW LS, they are nearly all white !

2. Ed Gein

Why the fuck is Ed Gein on that list?

Ed Gein killed, like, 3 people?

 

[Trash]

They always have their mouths full of moral values, but in the end they want to return to the straightjacket that our society was in the 50's.

Butthurt immoral hedonist detected.

I'm as drunk as fuck after celebrating our freedom day, else I wouldn't have even responded to your childish shit remark. So let this immoral butthurt hedonist surmise your wonderfull expression of freedom. Some fucking idiot (you) that knows not the slightest about dutch politics and political parties and even less on how the 50's were in the Calvinist Netherlands throws in a cheap shot on how he percieves me. You obviously feel morally superior, which I find amazing. All I see from you is a deep disdain to woman, combined with some pseudo fascist views on how things should be. One could argue that most of the nazi leadership consisted of closeted perverted fags like you, but in the end one would be hard pressed to call them morally superior. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is to go and find some fag to fuck you in the ass. A wannabe shitpusher like you should like it. But it would be scary to give in to all these strange urges and feelings, now wouldn't it?

 

[Krancor]

Columbia doesn't count (in this comparative context), it's not a 1st world, western, industrialized nation.



Your country has problems. But they are more fixable than the severe ones in North America. That should bring about optimism.

Just study the worst American serial killers to cheer you up ! BTW LS, they are nearly all white !


1. Richard Speck

2. Ed Gein

3. John Wayne Gacey

4. Richard Ramirez (The Nightstalker)

5. Ted Bundy

6. Jeff Dahmer

7. David Berkowitz (Son of Sam)

8. Gary Leon Ridgway (Green River Killer)

9. Henry Lee Lucas & Otis Toole (duo w/over 200 kills)

10. Pee Wee Gaskins

11. Richard "Iceman" Kuklinski

12. Gerald Stano

13. Dean Corll

14. Wayne Williams


After that, picture *several million* dead Vietnamese and Iraqis, killed by white American militarists.

Most blacks are too stupid and/or lazy to kill more than a couple people without getting caught. :D

 

[Keldorn]

"Bush is the most right wing President ever? What? This the same Bush who expanded Medicare with the costly Part D prescription coverage? There's no way you can argue he's more right wing than Herbert Hoover or Ronald Reagan given Bush's expansion of medicare alone."

Most right wing ever. Under him, poverty has grown drastically , while the rich have benefitted to the extreme. Rich capitalists thriving off the backs of the poor : study medical bankruptcies and the mortage crisis - not NEARLY enough socialization and regulations. Then, Blackwater & Halliburtion rampaging & pillaging the middle east to exorbitant profits. Record corporate profits, record CEO bonus checks. The number of working poor increased, and domestic manufacturing shipped oversees to reduce corporate overhead. The rampaging corporations whose only principle is greed, just LOVE cheap labor, and they HATE high minimum wages, fines and regulations. they've been given that atmosphere under Republican party domination. They also hate Unions. Under Bush, union power has been decreased. Big business has been given the green light to gouge the poor and middle class.

But you like to be in the Neo-Con bus, heading towards the precipice at 80mph, while cheering them to just go faster ! Yep, your solution is MORE corporate power and MORE militarism. MORE concentrated wealth for the rich and LESS safety net for the poor. Let the megarich be free to become trillionaires, and let the poor be free to fall through the cracks.




"As for the millions of illegals coming up here to work, there's a really simple solution to that. You end welfare. Mexicans will take jobs Americans won't do because they're living off the teet of the government dole. It also doesn't hurt that we have programs like WIC set up to feed Mexican families with kids who come up here. Oh, and the free health care they get. "

You are out of touch with reality. You have to drastically raise the minimum wage and enact stiff penalties for greedy capitalists thriving via cheap foreign labor. Bush opened the immigration floodgates for the benefit of the rampaging capitalists. That's why there are record profits for big business.



"Most likely he's got a personal incorporation as a tax shelter. I think we've covered that already."

But you can't claim that they all avoid all income tax. In fact, the rule is they (the Euro-Scandinavian rich) pay HIGHER taxes than North American ones who pay 15%. That's how they fund their welfare states.



"No, they don't. The Bush tax cuts which Hillary and Obama bitch about as being tax cuts for the rich actually raised the income limit for the lowest tax bracket, which means the lowest end of the pool, $0 - $30k per year, pays no taxes at all. The next gap got their taxes cut by 50%, and the percentage dwindles down from there. In other words, while everyone got a reduction in income taxes under his tax cut, the poorest got the most percentage of a cut if they even have to pay income taxes at all.

The highest bracket of income tax, i.e. THE RICH, starts incredibly low, around $200k per year, and it's at 31% under the Bush tax cuts. It used to be 40%.

The big problem with the entire idea of brackets is that you can actually get a pay raise, get bumped up to the next bracket, and actually make LESS money that due to taxes. It's a stupid idea to have tax rates based on income."

Obama is proposing cutting taxes for the middle class and elderly, while RAISING them for those who earn $100,000+/yr. Bottom line is, you support a Bushian tax system which has billionaires paying 15% tax rates and their middle class secretaries paying double that.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=us ... ires&meta=

In Europe & Scandinavia, they make the rich pay higher rates than the poor, which is why they have lower poverty rates, and a very sound welfare state, while allowing the rich to still be rich.



"Actually, the rise of corporations in the United States is directly due to the amount of regulations we have on businesses. Up until the 1980s, nearly all gas stations were privately owned mom and pop franchise operations. Due to the EPA regulations on fuel tanks and other fun things, they started going out of business. Who took their place? Larger corporations like Thorton's and SuperAmerica who can afford to eat the costs of those regulations because they have dozens of outlets throughout the regions. You can't make money with a gas station if you own just one these days. As close as you get to the mom and pop stations of old are the guys you'll never see working in them who own 5-10 gas stations in an area. "


That's capitalism. The US has 15% unionization compared with 85% in Scandinavia. The US has FAR less regulations for big business. They have FAR more influence in Washington. In Capitalism, the biggest will survive, and swallow up / buy out the small and medium sized businesses. Microsoft could only occur in a more Capitalist scenario, and the US has the most Capitalist system.

But you like to be in the Neo-Con bus, heading towards the precipice at 80mph, while cheering them to just go faster ! Yep, your solution is MORE corporate power and MORE militarism. MORE concentrated wealth for the rich and LESS safety net for the poor. Let the megarich be free to become trillionaires, and let the poor be free to fall through the cracks.




"Yeah, 23% of Norway's GDP is oil. Only 9% is manufactured goods. The majority of the rest of it is service industry. Given that Norway is in the top five oil exporters in the world, that's a heck of a lot of service industry right there with very little manufacturing as a fall back. A good chunk of that manufacturing is also tied to oil, such as oil platform fabrication and tanker construction. Right now, Norway is booming due to oil. Without oil, Norway is hurting. We'll see how much socialism they can take on without having the oil market here in the next half century."

Denmark, Sweden and Finland do NOT have the oil based Economy, and they are just as sound as Norway, due to a 50-50 mixed economy, a capitalist-socialist fusion. Denmark, has the lowest child poverty rates on earth, 5 times less than those in the US. The Scandinavian model is supreme, oil based or not. study the socio-economic statistics for Sweden, Denmark and Finland. they are superior to the US in :

-Life expectancy
-Lower infant mortality

(socialized medicine)

-Education standards and performance

(socialized education)

-Much lower poverty rates
-Lower crime
-Lower incarceration

And many other indicators. When you create a semi-socialist / semi-capitalist state, you raise the standard of living for all. Communism and Capitalism don't work in their undiluted form, empirical evidence proves this, so a 50-50 mixture must be attained.


But you simply hate sharing of record profits. you want the poor to be free to fall through the cracks, and the rich to be free to gouge them on their way down.


"Meanwhile, the United States has gobs of oil. We leave it in the ground untouched because of environmentalists, who are typically our left wingers. Our left wing actually holds our GDP back."

The US has consistently had the most amount of capitalism and subsequently resulting corporatism. Stop blaming the negatives in the US system on socialism or semi-socialism. the US has NO leftwing parties, only right leaning neo-liberals and right-wing neo-cons. Obama is trying to change that by fragmenting the Clintonian monopoly.

But you like to be in the Neo-Con bus, heading towards the precipice at 80mph, while cheering them to just go faster ! Yep, your solution is MORE corporate power and MORE militarism. MORE concentrated wealth for the rich and LESS safety net for the poor. Let the megarich be free to become trillionaires, and let the poor be free to fall through the cracks.




"The left wingers have killed FAR more people than right wingers have. Hilter killed 7-8 million, Stalin was around 50 million, Pol Pot killed around 2-3 million, Mao Se Tung killed around 60 million, and so on.

So, let's not toss in which side of the political spectrum kills the most people. You'll lose that one every time."

No, YOU have lost the argument.

Tally up the deaths induced by Scandinavian policy. I'm not arguing for your authoritarian, radical leftist, militaristic, communist scarecrow. I'm advocating a perfect 50-50 mixture, a hybrid fusion of non-authoritarian, semi-capitalist / semi-socialist policies, as being implemented on the ground in Denmark, Finland, Sweden and Norway. That's the center / center-left / pacifist model. Something your radical capitalist pea-brain will NEVER comprehend.


Under US Republican policy domination (yep, the insane Republicans have won the vast majority of elections), millions of Chileans, Central Americans, Vietnamese and Middle Easterners have been slaughtered. And you LIKE that and want exponentially MORE of it.

Kill ALL of the dark skinned poor in the 2nd & 3rd world, as long as the military-industrial-prison-pharmaceutical complex SAYS so.

 

[Keldorn]

Then picture Keldorn, jacking off to them.

You have a juvenile mind which envisions things in a delusional manner.... that is YOUR imagination... YOUR impulsively immature stupidity and shallowness. Just like a 13 year old with a pea-brained mind only capable of uttering aggressive insults.

That's ALL you have... that is the TOTALITY of your 'intellect'.

 

[Keldorn]

Just study the worst American serial killers to cheer you up ! BTW LS, they are nearly all white !

2. Ed Gein

Why the fuck is Ed Gein on that list?

Ed Gein killed, like, 3 people?

Well, then sub in a more malicious white skinned maniac.

 

[Keldorn]

Freedom day ?

In the more tolerant and left-leaning Netherlands ?


Does that mean I can buy Blueberry Cannabis in a licensed/regulated coffeeshop ? Watch nudity on prime time TV without a fuss ? Licensed and regulated prostitution too ?


Maybe if the US Republican maniacs looked closer at the FREEDOMS in The Netherlands, they and Americans would realize the lies told by the dogmatic, religious, right-wing incarcerators which fill up the (private) US prison industry with non-violent offenders, is an insanely totalitarian and puritanical form of moral enslavement and dictatorial fascism. The US, and it's Republican dominated behavioural clampdown, is now the world's leading jailer AND torturer.

 

[Krancor]

Bush is hardly right wing at all, except on religious and military matters.

You could make a good argument he is the worst president ever, but he is fiscally not a conservative, and well, really just not a conservative. He's more like a corporate sock puppet, I guess. I'd say that Nixon was ten times more conservative, and also a very good president in spit of the whole watergate thing.

 

[Keldorn]

Bush is hardly right wing at all, except on religious and military matters.

You could make a good argument he is the worst president ever, but he is fiscally not a conservative, and well, really just not a conservative. He's more like a corporate sock puppet, I guess. I'd say that Nixon was ten times more conservative, and also a very good president in spit of the whole watergate thing.

He is certainly the most right wing ever. He has overspent to the extreme in order to bloat the power of corporate capitalists, and give them unfettered power and wealth. His 8 years has been all about tax cuts for the rich, free markets, and allowing greedy mega-capitalists to do whatever they want to hoard wealth, including hyper-exploitation of cheap foreign labor. He is constantly championing free trade environments for the benefit of CEOs. The gap between rich and poor has NEVER been higher in the US : the gap between worker pay and CEO pay has never been higher. That is CAPITALISM in it's most extreme form : CORPORATISM. If you were to take what little regulations the US has (compared to Europe and Scandinavia, they are minimalist) to protect the workers and consumers, and eliminate all taxes, limits and fines on big business activity, the US situation would only get WORSE...... MORE poverty, MORE violent crime, MORE incarceration, LESS union power, MORE record profits for big business.

Fiscal conservatives are usually more moderate. Canada's Stephen Harper for example. Conservatives in Europe and Scandinavia for example.

The fact that Bush has used taxpayer money to bloat greedy corporatists and the military, only shows that he is an authoritarian capitalist of the most authoritarian right-wing variety. The fact that billionaires pay HALF the income tax rate of the middle class also proves this. The fact that gov't funds are used to create a rampaging military-industrial complex which abides by the principle 'greed is good', simply proves that they are in the business of poor-gouging, for the benefit of the big business elite. They rob from the poor and give to the rich - AFTER the rich businessmen get to profit via poisoning the earth, and providing scams in the form of predatory loans and private medical costs. If you think that Hallibuton, Blackwater and other private military contractors haven't seen the Iraq smashing as a lucritive and profitable venture, then you are blindly oblivious.

The private US prison industry, the private health care, the woefully underregulated mortgage system, the free trade environment for gun manufacturers, are all manifestations of a predominantly capitalist system based on greed. Acquisition of capital : profits before people. If it were any more capitalist, the rich would simply get even RICHER, and the poor would simply get even POORER.

33% poverty rates in Detroit are not enough ? CEOs writing themselves multi-million dollar bonus checks (by gouging and exploiting the poor and middle class via a free trader environment) are not enough ?

Under Bush, the top 10% of wealth earners have TRIUMPHED. Wealth is being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, as Capitalism demands. It is their RIGHT to become trillionaires and the RIGHT of the poor to suffer natural law poverty penalties for being inadequately productive in a Capitalist system.

 

[Keldorn]

Columbia doesn't count (in this comparative context), it's not a 1st world, western, industrialized nation.



Your country has problems. But they are more fixable than the severe ones in North America. That should bring about optimism.

Just study the worst American serial killers to cheer you up ! BTW LS, they are nearly all white !


1. Richard Speck

2. Ed Gein

3. John Wayne Gacey

4. Richard Ramirez (The Nightstalker)

5. Ted Bundy

6. Jeff Dahmer

7. David Berkowitz (Son of Sam)

8. Gary Leon Ridgway (Green River Killer)

9. Henry Lee Lucas & Otis Toole (duo w/over 200 kills)

10. Pee Wee Gaskins

11. Richard "Iceman" Kuklinski

12. Gerald Stano

13. Dean Corll

14. Wayne Williams


After that, picture *several million* dead Vietnamese and Iraqis, killed by white American militarists.

Most blacks are too stupid and/or lazy to kill more than a couple people without getting caught. :D

That is simply a rationalization of yours. You are incapable of judging people based on individual merit, so you look for racist scapegoatism to explain things. Given the same socio-economic environment and upbringing, Whites are in general as maliciously insane as Blacks and Asians, and equally stupid.

You could kill off all the non-whites on earth. It would simply prove you to be a Hitler, a Dahmer, a racist tyrant. What you'd be left with is a truly malicious and enslaved white cesspool of Neo-Nazi maniacs.

 

[kris]

You name one anecdote, and I provide proof that Norway, a semi-socialist state, has the greatest number of millionaires per capita in the world. They SHARE their oil revenue (oil revenue is 50% gov't owned / 50% privately owned - a perfect mix), giving each person an account of $40,000 of dollars, and they have a strong social safety net / welfare state, which is why they have MUCH lower poverty rates, MUCH lower crime rates and MUCH lower incarceration rates than the US.

What do you expect if you inject oil billions in a western country with a low population? Norway have some serious economic doping, is like fishing with dynamite. without the oil they would never be able to afford their social welfare net. They can with that money "import" doctors and well educated people from Sweden and other countries.

Yeah, it is good that they share that oil revenue, but don't think for a second that they are some kind of miracle.

The CEOs in Scandinavia (like the one for Nokia), usually stick around and pay MUCH higher income tax rates than greedy American CEOs. They know it creates a better society than one based exclusively on corporate greed, military mayhem and a massive incarceration machine.

Monaco don't have a military.

And even though Sweden outperforms the US in many socio-economic indicators, it doesn't quite match the quality level of social democracy in Finland, Norway or Denmark.

LOL. Sweden INVENTED this. We could maintain it with some great private companies we had and still have. The bubble burst and only Norway can keep it up, due to oil.

 

[Keldorn]

The success of Scandinavian social democracy isn't entirely oil based, or even predominantly oil based. And no, the economies of Finland and Denmark are not collapsing - they have 2 of the most educated and competitive workforces/economies on earth, and have very healthy populations and very VERY low general poverty and child poverty rates.

Also, just because a given source supposedly invented it, doesn't mean they produced the most effective, pragmatic, adaptive and successful *recent* form. There is initiation of an idea, and there is also refinement and tweaking of idea. Variations on a theme...

 

[Trash]

Freedom day ?

In the more tolerant and left-leaning Netherlands ?

Actually it's liberation day. Like I said, I was pretty drunk as I wrote it.

Does that mean I can buy Blueberry Cannabis in a licensed/regulated coffeeshop ?

If that strikes your fancy and they got that stuff. They aren't licensed or regulated though. It's more like they are being tolerated. Though that tolerance seems to be lessening by the day.

Watch nudity on prime time TV without a fuss ?

Sure, as soon as rome or the sopranos is on again. Funnily enough most shows or movies I see that contain nudity are from the states. Though when it's late at night, you get the horrible sex ads on the commercial channels.

Licensed and regulated prostitution too ?

Yup. though there is still a lot of nasty stuff going on. Illegal immigrant woman used as sex slaves, young girls being the victims of loverboys and such. Still, there is a union these days so things are looking up.

Maybe if the US Republican maniacs looked closer at the FREEDOMS in The Netherlands

They are too brainwashed by their media to be anything but scared by these freedoms. Look at the incredible idiotic comments that saint and the like make. I bet they actually believe that half of the nonsense they spout actually has a point. Saints comment on having a private corporate army actually being a good thing was a goddamn eye opener for me. No matter how frighteningly short sighted it is, he probably has it utterly rationalised for himself. It's most likely a cultural thing, but I bet that shit they call the media in the states has a lot to do with it.

 

[kingcomrade]

Then picture Keldorn, jacking off to them.

You have a juvenile mind which envisions things in a delusional manner.... that is YOUR imagination... YOUR impulsively immature stupidity and shallowness. Just like a 13 year old with a pea-brained mind only capable of uttering aggressive insults.

That's ALL you have... that is the TOTALITY of your 'intellect'.

Guys look at this. Keldorn just called me stupid, immature, and guilty of throwing insults.

edit-

They are too brainwashed by their media to be anything but scared by these freedoms.

Shows how much you know. If you are basing your ideas of what "they" think and feel on your own self-serving character analysis of Saint you've got bigger problems than redneck America coming to get you.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Most right wing ever. Under him, poverty has grown drastically , while the rich have benefitted to the extreme.

This is a [http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/poverty06/state.html]myth[/url].

Rich capitalists thriving off the backs of the poor : study medical bankruptcies and the mortage crisis - not NEARLY enough socialization and regulations.

The mortgage crisis stems from congress telling bankers they would regulate them if they didn't start giving more loans to poor people, minorities and people with bad credit. Thus the sub prime mortgage boom was born. The demand for property went up, so there was a housing bubble. All bubbles burst.

Now there's good and bad to everything. The bubble bursting is fantastic for people looking to buy houses now because property values are down. During the housing bubble, there were gobs of news pieces about house property values were too expensive for people. That's a Seller's Market, now it's a Buyer's Market. You can make money on either market.

The number of working poor increased, and domestic manufacturing shipped oversees to reduce corporate overhead.

Except that the manufacturing productivity in the United States has increased since the 1980s. It's grown by a steady 3-4% per year in the United States since the 1980s. We lose more jobs to technology than we do to outsourcing. We also insource more jobs than are outsourced in the United States. One nice thing about the value of the United States dollar dropping is that insourcing actually becomes are attractive to foreign companies, so that trend is likely to go up further.

But you like to be in the Neo-Con bus, heading towards the precipice at 80mph, while cheering them to just go faster ! Yep, your solution is MORE corporate power and MORE militarism. MORE concentrated wealth for the rich and LESS safety net for the poor. Let the megarich be free to become trillionaires, and let the poor be free to fall through the cracks.

You'd have a point.. Except none of that is happening!

You are out of touch with reality. You have to drastically raise the minimum wage and enact stiff penalties for greedy capitalists thriving via cheap foreign labor. Bush opened the immigration floodgates for the benefit of the rampaging capitalists. That's why there are record profits for big business.

Actually, the floodgates have been open long, LONG before George W. Bush took office.

But you can't claim that they all avoid all income tax. In fact, the rule is they (the Euro-Scandinavian rich) pay HIGHER taxes than North American ones who pay 15%. That's how they fund their welfare states.

Do you not understand the difference between income tax and Capital Gains tax? You really don't seem to, since you're constantly throwing out the 15% figure in the context of income tax. The income tax rate on the highest bracket is 31% in the United States. All brackets pay 15% Capital Gains tax if they have Capital Gains.

Obama is proposing cutting taxes for the middle class and elderly, while RAISING them for those who earn $100,000+/yr. Bottom line is, you support a Bushian tax system which has billionaires paying 15% tax rates and their middle class secretaries paying double that.

Okay, I see. You don't have any idea what the difference is between Capital Gains tax and income tax.

In Europe & Scandinavia, they make the rich pay higher rates than the poor, which is why they have lower poverty rates, and a very sound welfare state, while allowing the rich to still be rich.

Yeah, in America, we do the exact same thing! And it's stupid for the reason I pointed out. Someone making $196,000 actually gets more money on their check than someone making $200,000 because they end up in the next higher bracket. The same thing goes for someone making $29,000 vs $30,000, or $49,000 vs $50,000, and so on. It's stupid.

That's capitalism. The US has 15% unionization compared with 85% in Scandinavia. The US has FAR less regulations for big business. They have FAR more influence in Washington. In Capitalism, the biggest will survive, and swallow up / buy out the small and medium sized businesses. Microsoft could only occur in a more Capitalist scenario, and the US has the most Capitalist system.

The EPA regulations driving mom and pop gas stations out of business isn't capitalism. The smoking bans driving local taverns out of business only to be replaced by chain stores isn't capitalism either. There's gobs of examples of the government making policies which interfere with business which only kills off the small businesses, and none of that is capitalism.

You can't bitch about corporations out of one side of your mouth and preach about regulations out of the other, because regulations only kill off the smaller businesses. They might impact the larger ones, but they're the death nail for the small ones. If all you want are large corporations, by all means, keep on regulating.

Denmark, Sweden and Finland do NOT have the oil based Economy, and they are just as sound as Norway, due to a 50-50 mixed economy, a capitalist-socialist fusion. Denmark, has the lowest child poverty rates on earth, 5 times less than those in the US. The Scandinavian model is supreme, oil based or not. study the socio-economic statistics for Sweden, Denmark and Finland. they are superior to the US in :

Again, the corporate tax rates in those countries are at least 25% lower(40% in the US versus 30% in Scandinavian countries). Your pal Obama wants to raise the corporate tax rate more here in the United States. The United States already has the highest corporate tax rate in the Western industrialized world, and Obama and Hillary want to raise it higher. You want to talk about outsourcing then?

-Life expectancy
-Lower infant mortality

These two go hand in hand.

(socialized medicine)

Socialized medicine is great for infants, pretty shitty for elderly. The number of prostrate cancer survivors in the United States is around 80%, in the UK and other places with socialized medicine, it's 50%.

-Education standards and performance

(socialized education)

Yeah, great example when talking about the United States. Our education is socialized, our teachers are all unionized, and the results of our education system are pretty shitastic.

But you simply hate sharing of record profits. you want the poor to be free to fall through the cracks, and the rich to be free to gouge them on their way down.

Do you know what a publically traded company is? The stock market? Ever heard of dividends? I LOVE sharing corporate profits. That's why I buy stock!

The US has consistently had the most amount of capitalism and subsequently resulting corporatism. Stop blaming the negatives in the US system on socialism or semi-socialism. the US has NO leftwing parties, only right leaning neo-liberals and right-wing neo-cons. Obama is trying to change that by fragmenting the Clintonian monopoly.

Both our parties are left wing, hince the 40% corporate tax rate and all the silly regulations.

Tally up the deaths induced by Scandinavian policy.

What side of World War 2 was Finland on? Remind me again.

Saints comment on having a private corporate army actually being a good thing was a goddamn eye opener for me. No matter how frighteningly short sighted it is, he probably has it utterly rationalised for himself. It's most likely a cultural thing, but I bet that shit they call the media in the states has a lot to do with it.

My comment was about if you were a soldier, which one would you rather work under? Blackwater people make 3 to 6 times as much as United States Army soldiers. They're better outfitted and they don't have to deal with politically correct bullshit RoEs like having to call up a superior officer to return fire when fired upon. In other words, would you rather have the equipment, be allowed to defend yourself in a fire fight, and make gobs and gobs of money doing it if you were a soldier?

He is certainly the most right wing ever. He has overspent to the extreme in order to bloat the power of corporate capitalists, and give them unfettered power and wealth. His 8 years has been all about tax cuts for the rich.

Again, the lowest bracket of the income tax ladder got the majority of the cuts, that's if they pay income taxes at all. Stop listening to the bullshit in political ads and look it up.

 

[Trash]

Shows how much you know. If you are basing your ideas of what "they" think and feel on your own self-serving character analysis of Saint you've got bigger problems than redneck America coming to get you.

I used him as an example of a stereotypical right wing american. Tell me, am I wrong in assuming that?

My comment was about if you were a soldier, which one would you rather work under? Blackwater people make 3 to 6 times as much as United States Army soldiers. They're better outfitted and they don't have to deal with politically correct bullshit RoEs like having to call up a superior officer to return fire when fired upon. In other words, would you rather have the equipment, be allowed to defend yourself in a fire fight, and make gobs and gobs of money doing it if you were a soldier?

It would make me a merc, a dog of war for hire for the highest bidder. No, I wouldn't like that. Not at all.

And sorry, if you were only talking about private armies for the benefit of the ordinary soldier I really should work on my english.

Sorry, private armies actually work and work well. They're far more efficient, they pay their soldiers better and provide better care for their soldiers than the government can. If anything, they should be expanded. There's no sense in having our soldiers out in the field ill-equiped, under paid, and suck in the VA system when they'd be better off fighting the same battles under the administration of companies like Blackwater.

Other than you just saying, "Gosh, I don't like it!" there's really no rational reason why private militaries aren't good things.

 

[nomask7]

Neoconservatism is indeed a leftist movement, if real-world bolshevism can be called leftist (it's in fact capitalism disguised as socialism). It's the usurpation of traditional conservatism by Jews like Irving Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, Doug Feith, Richard Perle, Elliott Abrams, Dov Zakheim, Robert B. Zoellick, Eliot Cohen, William Kristol, Robert Kagan, David Wurmser, Joshua Muravchik, Meyrav Wurmser, Irwin Stelzer, Michael Ledeen, Daniel Pipes, Lawrence Kaplan, Marty Peretz, Charles Krauthammer, David Brooks, John Podhoretz, Neal Kozodoy, Norman Podhoretz, Lewis Libby, etc....

You want to understand neoconservatism? Read Professor MacDonald's article, 'Thinking About Neoconservatism':

http://www.vdare.com/macdonald/030918_n ... vatism.htm

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

But you like to be in the Neo-Con bus, heading towards the precipice at 80mph, while cheering them to just go faster ! Yep, your solution is MORE corporate power and MORE militarism. MORE concentrated wealth for the rich and LESS safety net for the poor. Let the megarich be free to become trillionaires, and let the poor be free to fall through the cracks.

You'd have a point.. Except none of that is happening!

... being allowed to choose from the false dichotomy and pretending to hate the officially sanctioned "bad guys" (evil capitalists in top hats) is the only ethical distinction permitted on the televitzing device for young firebrands with hard-ons for villifying some imaginary straw man opponent.

If modern consumer units were not encouraged to engage in the two minute hatred of the moustachioed Monopoly guy in his little lead car, they'd have only one remaining villain left to identify ... the sad, wretched little creep in the mirror whose only sense of right and wrong is the phony conscience created for him by media forces.

The mark of a declining society is an easily cultivated hatred of all things good. Our society is overqualified in this regard to a remarkable degree. The original founders of America would have never believed that someday the inhabitants would be so stupid they would circle their wagons around a primeval hatred of all organized business, profitability and successful entrepreneurship. Yet, there you have it.

I think it is fair to conclude any society that establishes these kinds of moral codes amidst an orgy of pornographic self-mutilation and self-defacement is utterly, absolutely doomed. It's the same kind of neurotic catalepsis that vets in zoos recognize as an excuse for euthanasia, except this zoo is circumnavigated by the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans on both sides.

 

[DefJam101]

Wait, since when did anti-capitalism become mainstream televitz?

 

[FrancoTAU]

Keldorn thinking that Bush and the neocons are economic conservatives just shows that he has no clue. We have two parties now that are pro state. One just panders with rhetoric to hardcore Christians and the other to the hippies. While Bush has kept taxes low, he's increased gov't spending across the board and increased regulations which are all very anti capitalistic.

Keldorn keeps pointing to the Scandinavian model, but he doesn't realize that they have an insane amount of oil compared to their small population. Even given that , those countries were on the verge of an economic collapse until oil prices exploded with the growth of China/India.

The Western European countries who stick to the old ways will collapse, and the ones who continue moving toward a more capitalistic approach will be there with the US and Japan.

There's a big reason why the growing European economies are Ireland and some of the eastern European countries. They're using the old timey American model.

 

[Keldorn]

Does that mean I can buy Blueberry Cannabis in a licensed/regulated coffeeshop ?

If that strikes your fancy and they got that stuff. They aren't licensed or regulated though. It's more like they are being tolerated. Though that tolerance seems to be lessening by the day.

Watch nudity on prime time TV without a fuss ?

Sure, as soon as rome or the sopranos is on again. Funnily enough most shows or movies I see that contain nudity are from the states. Though when it's late at night, you get the horrible sex ads on the commercial channels.

Licensed and regulated prostitution too ?

Yup. though there is still a lot of nasty stuff going on. Illegal immigrant woman used as sex slaves, young girls being the victims of loverboys and such. Still, there is a union these days so things are looking up.

1) You are wrong about the coffeeshops not being regulated/licensed. They can't sell to those under 18, and are regularly scrutinized and tested for abiding by that. They can't allow hard drugs on their premises. They can only sell a certain amount and can only CARRY a certain amount in stock. They are regularly rested for that. Many coffeeshops have been found to be in violation of these regulations and have been fined or closed, a shop in Haarlem being the most recent example (for stocking over the X-gram limit). In the US and Canada, hundreds of thousands of people are imprisoned and criminalized, some for decades, for Cannabis offenses.

2) In the US, all prime time nudity on non-cable channels is illegal and harshly banned, including all swear words. Not so in some/most of Europe and Scandinavia. Janet's nipplegate doesn't happen in Europe/Scandinavia.

3) In BC - Canada, because prostitution is driven underground, the prostitutes are much less safe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pickton

The same sort of thing happened in Alberta - Canada. Do you have dozens of prostitutes being victimized by serial killers ? Maybe it's because prostitution is more in the open, and have some regulations and rights, but STILL not enough. Unions and more scrutiny would only validate and stabilize the prostitution industry, making it safer and more transparent.

 

[Keldorn]

Guys look at this. Keldorn just called me stupid, immature, and guilty of throwing insults.

A taste of your own medicine ? Justified intellectual retaliation.

 

[Calis]

1) You are wrong about the coffeeshops not being regulated/licensed. They can't sell to those under 18, and are regularly scrutinized and tested for abiding by that. They can't allow hard drugs on their premises. They can only sell a certain amount and can only CARRY a certain amount in stock. They are regularly rested for that. Many coffeeshops have been found to be in violation of these regulations and have been fined or closed, a shop in Haarlem being the most recent example (for stocking over the X-gram limit). In the US and Canada, hundreds of thousands of people are imprisoned and criminalized, some for decades, for Cannabis offenses.

I think Trash was referring to the exact legal construction. Technically, weed still falls under the opium law here, even though the policies under which sale & use are tolerated are defined & enforced. You're right though in that there's a fairly strict set of rules & policies nationwide under which you get to keep your coffeeshop (like the max 5 grams/person rule or the "you can grow your own, but max three plants and no artificial lighting" rule). The max stock volume isn't that strictly enforced in my experience, though, but the 18 year old / max amount sold per day to a single customer rule is. My favorite local shop got temporarily closed by the city a couple of times because of that, already. But I guess it depends on the city; Enschede, for instance, has a fairly proactive policy on enforcing those rules, but that's mainly because they're the easiest legal way to cut down on drug tourism (filthy germans). Arnhem, Nijmegen, Amsterdam, The Hague, on the other hand, seem fairly lax (I never have to show my ID there, while local shops always card me - my regular shop being the exception, since they know my face by now)
These days they no longer extend liquor licenses to coffeeshops, either.

2) In the US, all prime time nudity on non-cable channels is illegal and harshly banned, including all swear words. Not so in some/most of Europe and Scandinavia. Janet's nipplegate doesn't happen in Europe/Scandinavia.

Yeah, profanity, too. Try watching Pulp Fiction in the US, you'll laugh your ass off.