Decline Sword Coast Legends Pre-Release Thread

[Luzur]

Well bro i kinda had to go from memory since i wasnt sure where Luskan was located, its been a while since i played a AD&D game.

Someone posted this map on their forums. I've no idea if this is still accurate, as it's also been many years since I read anything about the FR, but I guess it should be roughly correct at least.

It is accurate. It's from the great map of Faerûn in 3rd ed's Campaign Setting.

But, isnt the Sword Coast just the bit of coastline up to Waterdeep?

 

[Grunker]

Well bro i kinda had to go from memory since i wasnt sure where Luskan was located, its been a while since i played a AD&D game.

Someone posted this map on their forums. I've no idea if this is still accurate, as it's also been many years since I read anything about the FR, but I guess it should be roughly correct at least.

It is accurate. It's from the great map of Faerûn in 3rd ed's Campaign Setting.

But, isnt the Sword Coast just the bit of coastline up to Waterdeep?

The definition varies, but I've never heard one that excludes Neverwinter I think?

 

[Infinitron]

Full map:

From North to South: Icewind Dale 1 & 2, Neverwinter Nights OC & Neverwinter Nights 2 OC + Storm of Zehir, Hordes of the Underdark, Baldur's Gate 1, Baldur's Gate 2, Throne of Bhaal

 

[Grunker]

Bonus points for posting the excellent 2nd Ed. boxed map, though you probably ripped it from their forums, right?

 

[Shannow]

Concerning Grunker's comment (who seems to be bent on shitting on this game, long before we can be sure it deserves all the shit):

Give me one good reason to be optimistic, like I said. If this is actually a legit 5E RTwP PC-RPG, I will take back every negative comment and start softly stroking my schlong.

What might point into a shitty direction: Skills have cool-downs. Now I'm not as bothered by CDs as many others on the codex. In fact, I'd even see "actions per turn" as CDs in a RTwP game. However, the difference lies in the player being able to activate several CDs next to each other, wheras special attacks in a TB game would prohibit each other. At least in D&D-style TB you could only use one per turn. This (and Mordekainen's Sword mk II, etc.) suggests that LotSC will move further away from D&D than simply implementing turns RT-style like in IE games. :/
Whether it takes as little from D&D as Neverwinter Online remains to be seen.

I don't mind cooldowns that much either. Christ, I think DA:O is a p. good fucking game. My alarm bells are going off due to three things:

1) Co-op seems to be a focus.
2) Maps look like co-op corridors.
3) Cooldowns signify that 5E is solely "inspirational."

There are smaller things that point to negatives as well. While I see all these small indications that the game is not anything remotely like IE/DAO (jesus, are we at the point where "like DA:O" is the new "might be decent"?), I see no indication of the opposite: that there is reason to hope. You give me a reason to hope, I will hope.

1. Where did you get the butthurt from? Serious question. I've written before that I don't understand why anybody'd get emotional about this game at this stage.
2. You've been given the reasons. By several people. For me it boils down to "Looks like a mixture between NWN and BG. Will adapt 5th ed rules in "some way". Might be an ok/cool game. Probably not, but too early to dismiss." (Which again boils down to: I'll be interested in any D&D game until it's proven shit ) If you disagree, fine. But don't keep asking for reasons to be optimistic. It sounds needy.
3. I'd add "depends on DLCs for money-grabbing" at the top of the red-flag list. In fact I put that list in my first concrete comment.

 

[Grunker]

1. Where did you get the butthurt from? Serious question. I've written before that I don't understand why anybody'd get emotional about this game at this stage.

Why else fabricate something like this:

Concerning Grunker's comment (who seems to be bent on shitting on this game

if not out of butthurt? All I've done is been pessimistic and saying there's little reason to be hopeful so far. How is that "shitting on this game"?

2. You've been given the reasons. By several people.

Kindly quote the posts you're refering to. I've read every single direct response to me and they've all been either "I hope just because" or "it looks/sounds like NWN". The latter is definetely not a reason for anything remotely in the realm of optimism in my book.

If you disagree, fine. But don't keep asking for reasons to be optimistic. It sounds needy.

"Keep asking", lol. This is what is happening:

Person X: "It might be cool for this reason."

Me: "Well, that could just as easily mean XYZ."

Person X: "Why are you negative?"

Me: "Give me a reason not to be."

Basically, my entire point is that there is 0 reason to give a fuck before someone gives us a reason to give a fuck. I'm not kidding when I say that the slightest indication that this might be an IE-like will make me turn around.

No one will be happier than me, probably the biggest resident IE-fanboy, if it turns out I'm wrong.

 

[Havoc]

I'm sorry... but that map is not, anymore, accurate. It's before SPELLFUCK.

I don't know what they did to 5th and I better I'm off not knowing, but after they spellfucked the continent, for example, Neverwinter is not a port city anymore.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

Prob too early for this, but is anyone else thinking that the mini-map indicates that the game world may be a railroad?

 

[Telengard]

Grunker is the one who's going to turn out to be right about this. Because:

• "inspired by" is slang for "cherry-picked elements from". Like so: "Fallout 3 was inspired by its ancestors, but made its own radical way.", Eurogamer

So, 5e is out. No need to go any further. But I will:

• The existence of Ray of Frost II means no d&d spell progression, but instead a small list of powers which are leveled up/unlocked.
• The existence of cooldowns means its not going to have d&d spell use limitations, will instead have cooldown cycles as its limiter.
• The existence of cooldowns and Ray of Frost II implies access to all unlocked powers all the time, not a limited # chosen by the day.
  
• The focus on co-op implies some kind of drop-in/drop-out system and enforced character balance.

Now, put all that together. You've got this co-op focused game where the spellcasters don't have the traditional d&d number-of-uses limitations, but instead have cooldowns. Normally, the spellcasters are the big guns with limited ammunition. With cooldowns implemented, though, that ain't happening. And since I don't see a mana bar, those spellcasters are going to be using their powers infinitely, limited by the cooldown cycle. Which implies that the fighters are going to have "special powers" too, with every class being roughly equal in damage output (very likely balanced around dps, healer, tank), so that the drop-in/drop-out co-op partners aren't put out that their chosen class is weaker than the others. So, everyone is going to be throwing around their "special" attacks of Whirlwind Strike II and Flurry of Blows III and Fireball IV on cooldown cycles.

Until and unless something is shown different, this is going to be an online action game with RPG elements and Biowarian story set in the Forgotten Realms.

 

[Xenich]

Grunker is the one who's going to turn out to be right about this. Because:

• "inspired by" is slang for "cherry-picked elements from". Like so: "Fallout 3 was inspired by its ancestors, but made its own radical way.", Eurogamer

So, 5e is out. No need to go any further. But I will:

• The existence of Ray of Frost II means no d&d spell progression, but instead a small list of powers which are leveled up/unlocked.
• The existence of cooldowns means its not going to have d&d spell use limitations, will instead have cooldown cycles as its limiter.
• The existence of cooldowns and Ray of Frost II implies access to all unlocked powers all the time, not a limited # chosen by the day.
  
• The focus on co-op implies some kind of drop-in/drop-out system and enforced character balance.

Now, put all that together. You've got this co-op focused game where the spellcasters don't have the traditional d&d number-of-uses limitations, but instead have cooldowns. Normally, the spellcasters are the big guns with limited ammunition. With cooldowns implemented, though, that ain't happening. And since I don't see a mana bar, those spellcasters are going to be using their powers infinitely, limited by the cooldown cycle. Which implies that the fighters are going to have "special powers" too, with every class being roughly equal in damage output (very likely balanced around dps, healer, tank), so that the drop-in/drop-out co-op partners aren't put out that their chosen class is weaker than the others. So, everyone is going to be throwing around their "special" attacks of Whirlwind Strike II and Flurry of Blows III and Fireball IV on cooldown cycles.

Until and unless something is shown different, this is going to be an online action game with RPG elements and Biowarian story set in the Forgotten Realms.

That is what I am thinking as well, which is why this game really stinks of yet another console tard system for idiots who love to play with their face on the keyboard.

Time will tell, but unless this game is everything BG/BG2 was in systems and story, but BETTER (because they should have learned something from the past), then all I can say is they are a bunch of fucking idiots who deserve to be flipping burgers, not making games.

They can prove me wrong and honestly I hope they will, but... well... I don't think they will.

 

[getter77]

There'll surely have to be more concrete details announced within the next several weeks considering the relatively near ship date they are targeting---though they really should have more prepared to tide folks over with by the end of next week as opposed to adding some needless artificial intrigue and mystery to the lot of it when it comes to the fundamentals.

 

[Tigranes]

Grunker is the one who's going to turn out to be right about this. Because:

• "inspired by" is slang for "cherry-picked elements from". Like so: "Fallout 3 was inspired by its ancestors, but made its own radical way.", Eurogamer

So, 5e is out. No need to go any further. But I will:

• The existence of Ray of Frost II means no d&d spell progression, but instead a small list of powers which are leveled up/unlocked.
• The existence of cooldowns means its not going to have d&d spell use limitations, will instead have cooldown cycles as its limiter.
• The existence of cooldowns and Ray of Frost II implies access to all unlocked powers all the time, not a limited # chosen by the day.
  
• The focus on co-op implies some kind of drop-in/drop-out system and enforced character balance.

Now, put all that together. You've got this co-op focused game where the spellcasters don't have the traditional d&d number-of-uses limitations, but instead have cooldowns. Normally, the spellcasters are the big guns with limited ammunition. With cooldowns implemented, though, that ain't happening. And since I don't see a mana bar, those spellcasters are going to be using their powers infinitely, limited by the cooldown cycle. Which implies that the fighters are going to have "special powers" too, with every class being roughly equal in damage output (very likely balanced around dps, healer, tank), so that the drop-in/drop-out co-op partners aren't put out that their chosen class is weaker than the others. So, everyone is going to be throwing around their "special" attacks of Whirlwind Strike II and Flurry of Blows III and Fireball IV on cooldown cycles.

Until and unless something is shown different, this is going to be an online action game with RPG elements and Biowarian story set in the Forgotten Realms.

Good points, you've made me go back and actually watch the video carefully.

In addition, I'll point out; (1) The casting of fireball and call lightning in the second combat segment seems to show near-instantaneous casting; (2) a lot of the times things seem to get damaged very quickly, e.g. three "11" damage floaters on a 'nest' thing in the first combat segment, around 0.19, though this could be due to damage over time things so there's no conclusive proof that 6-turn rounds are gone.

 

[Seari]

The biggest red flag that's been pointed out before is "collect 10 ooze samples".

 

[imweasel]

The existence of Ray of Frost II means no d&d spell progression, but instead a small list of powers which are leveled up/unlocked.

Many spells in D&D, like Ray of Frost or Magic Missle, do actually level up. That isn't a very conclusive statement.

Ray of Frost

A frigid beam of blue-white light streaks toward a creature within range. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, it takes 1d8 cold damage, and its speed is reduced by 10 feet until the start of your next turn.

The spell’s damage increases by 1d8 when you reach 5th level (2d8), 11th level (3d8), and 17th level (4d8).
​

The existence of cooldowns means its not going to have d&d spell use limitations, will instead have cooldown cycles as its limiter.

Unclear, but possible. If true, then that would mean that the game will be about as shitty as "cool down bonanza" D:OS.

 

[tuluse]

The existence of Ray of Frost II means no d&d spell progression, but instead a small list of powers which are leveled up/unlocked.

Many spells in D&D, like Ray of Frost or Magic Missle, do actually level up. That isn't a very conclusive statement.

Ray of Frost

A frigid beam of blue-white light streaks toward a creature within range. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, it takes 1d8 cold damage, and its speed is reduced by 10 feet until the start of your next turn.

The spell’s damage increases by 1d8 when you reach 5th level (2d8), 11th level (3d8), and 17th level (4d8).
​

The existence of cooldowns means its not going to have d&d spell use limitations, will instead have cooldown cycles as its limiter.

Unclear, but possible. If true, then that would mean that the game will be about as shitty as "cool down bonanza" D:OS.

He means you would pick Ray of Frost II or Magic Missile II as a higher level spell, not the spell itself scaling to higher levels.

Which means there are fewer and lamer spells in this game.

 

[Tigranes]

There is Mordekainen's Sword II in the video, too.

 

[imweasel]

He means you would pick Ray of Frost II or Magic Missile II as a higher level spell, not the spell itself scaling to higher levels.

Which means there are fewer and lamer spells in this game.

That is possible, but I am not convinced that this is the case, because i'm not so sure if it is reasonable to deduce that from the trailer.

We should be getting concrete details about the game systems soon though. We'll see that is all about.

 

[Shin]

Since my AD&D knowledge is quite limited to the 2nd/3rd editions, I was wondering if the outrageous spells like Time Stop or Wish are still a thing in the later editions? Same thing with the repertoire of (anti) spell protections.. do they still 'exist' in the (official) pen and paper versions?

 

[LeStryfe79]

Since my AD&D knowledge is quite limited to the 2nd/3rd editions, I was wondering if the outrageous spells like Time Stop or Wish are still a thing in the later editions? Same thing with the repertoire of (anti) spell protections.. do they still 'exist' in the (official) pen and paper versions?

A lot of that stuff was gone in 4ed and back in 5ed. Also, Grunker is probably right about SCL being an action oriented bastardized version of 5ed instead of a real D&D game. That said,spells scale in different ways in 5ed, so Ray of Frost 2 would be a higher level character casting a cantrip and Mordenkainen's Sword 2 would be cast from a higher level slot then its original. I doubt this will be the case though.

 

[Shannow]

snip

See, not a very helpful reaction, no? I'd respond, but it wouldn't lead to anywhere. Past experience and all. It'd be just as useful as if you simply re-read your own post. You might just see where you are plain stubborn. Try to think around that, and you might manage to see other people's perspective. I doubt that you have it in you though.



Let's play Angel's Advocat here, shall we:

Grunker is the one who's going to turn out to be right about this. Because:
"inspired by" is slang for "cherry-picked elements from". Like so: "Fallout 3 was inspired by its ancestors, but made its own radical way.", Eurogamer

A) It might just as well mean, that it's an adaption to RTwP. Mostly faithful.
B) It might just be bad wording that we're getting hung up on.
C) It might change the rules drasticaly, but the result might still be a good game/system.

So, 5e is out. No need to go any further. But I will:
The existence of Ray of Frost II means no d&d spell progression, but instead a small list of powers which are leveled up/unlocked.

A) The existence of Ray of Frost II just as well might show that the char reached higher levels and the spell is now more powerful.
B) Another explanation is that it's just a beta thing, so that the testers can see at a glance that the spell actually got more powerful on lvlup.
C) And I don't see how this by itself suggests a "small" list of powers.
/Angel's Advocate off: I'd be more worried about extra abilities and spells being put in DLCs while the base game is kept barebones.
/Angel's Advocate on

The existence of cooldowns means its not going to have d&d spell use limitations, will instead have cooldown cycles as its limiter.
The existence of cooldowns and Ray of Frost II implies access to all unlocked powers all the time, not a limited # chosen by the day.

A) Not neccessarily bad. Given that most RTwP games have shitty or no "rest"-mechanics.
B) Being limited by a timer is still a limitation, just not the same kind.

The focus on co-op implies some kind of drop-in/drop-out system and enforced character balance.

Or it might just be very similar to NWN in those respects...

Now, put all that together. You've got this co-op focused game where the spellcasters don't have the traditional d&d number-of-uses limitations, but instead have cooldowns. Normally, the spellcasters are the big guns with limited ammunition. With cooldowns implemented, though, that ain't happening. And since I don't see a mana bar, those spellcasters are going to be using their powers infinitely, limited by the cooldown cycle. Which implies that the fighters are going to have "special powers" too, with every class being roughly equal in damage output (very likely balanced around dps, healer, tank), so that the drop-in/drop-out co-op partners aren't put out that their chosen class is weaker than the others. So, everyone is going to be throwing around their "special" attacks of Whirlwind Strike II and Flurry of Blows III and Fireball IV on cooldown cycles.

A) Not a given.
B) Pretty much what 4th ed did. (Dunno about 5th. But it might also have At-Will, per Encounter, per Day... So it just might be rather faithful.)
C) Much of which sounds like in PE. A game the majority here is anticipating.
D) Even if this should turn out to be accurate, it could still be a good game. (Hey, I am trying to be the Angel's Advocate.)

Until and unless something is shown different, this is going to be an online action game with RPG elements and Biowarian story set in the Forgotten Realms.

No. Plain no. Certainly not an action game. It's clear that it's RTwP. And I find it very doubtful that it'll have forced MP. Just think of 5 players constantly individually pausing...

/Angel's Advocate off
Even when I'm not forcing optimism, I feel like Telengard interpreted everything as negatively as possible. That's fine (and he'll probably end up closer to the truth than my forced optimism). But I don't see it as a foregone conclusion.
So I'll rather stay hopeful until they prove my fears correct.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Gotta love these codex 'discussions'

Seriously though, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a developer to prove themselves before writing off their new game as shit. Especially when the announcement is as slap-dash as this one feels to me. This reeks of a cash-grab on the publisher side of things. Just look at those pre-order tiers and you'll find sufficient evidence to infer that this project is about milking that nostalgia teat for all it's worth.

Does that necessarily mean it will be bad? No, absolutely not. Plenty of 'slam-dunks' have turned out to be pretty decent games (although I'm pressed to think of a single-one that I'd label a GREAT game). But it does entirely warrant skepticism about the developer's capabilities and intentions.

 

[Grunker]

I'm sorry... but that map is not, anymore, accurate. It's before SPELLFUCK.

I don't know what they did to 5th and I better I'm off not knowing, but after they spellfucked the continent, for example, Neverwinter is not a port city anymore.

That is some depressing-ass shit.

 

[Grunker]

Shannow:

Spoiler

I gotta go move into my new apartment. If I haven't replied by tomorrow it's because I've forgotten it.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Just look at those pre-order tiers and you'll find sufficient evidence to infer that this project is about milking that nostalgia teat for all it's worth.

Yes, there is some very dodgy stuff there. If you get the "Deluxe edition" ($60 instead of $35) there are the usual trinkets and badges, but also:
- Beholders for the DM to use.
- The "Tome of knowledge" which supposedly boosts some stats of the players. Seriously, what the fuck is this?

So basically looks like a combination of Day1 DLC and MMO-style pay-to-win.

That's why I look forward to them actually having to face questions and provide info at some point. I've seen lots of comments there from long-time DnD pnp fans and NWN modders who are expecting a proper 5e game and, while it's too early to know for certain, there are clues that it could be a big letdown in that regard. But they've been preordering already.

 

[Spectacle]

I wonder why they can't simply make a CRPG representation of 5E rules, since that seems like what most people want? Is it too hard for them to code a PnP ruleset into the game, or are they worried that casuals won't understand the rules?