KickStarter System Shock 1 Remake by Nightdive Studios

[Average Manatee]

You seem to think there is way more ammo in the game than there actually is. You'd need hundreds more bullets to be able to use that much per target. Where does this ammo come from?

I checked and there are two replicators in game that sell AP rounds even without hacking.
And then there are standard rounds.

Are you aware of how incredibly expensive they are?

WEak against mech is still better than useless. And yes, 4 overspecialized weapon types are better than 3 overspecialized weapon types and one that's IWIN button.

No, the solution is to make standard weapons not an IWIN button. Which is easy to do.

Last time it was 20 rounds. For assault bot that has 2x the HP of a maintenance one.

Pistol does 4 damage. @50% damage that would mean it would take 50 AP rounds to down a single maintenance bot. There are, like, 12 AP rounds in MedSci and IIRC AP rounds cost around 30 nanites each from a hacked replicator, so you're looking at needing around 1.1k of nanites to buy the rounds to kill a single bot that is intended to be destroyed (and I don't think you can even purchase AP rounds to begin with). With a regular pistol you'd need to circle strafe while unloading 100 bullets at 1 point of damage each.

Let's also not forget that you'd need 24 AP pistol bullets for every single turret. There are 3 turrets on the way to the shuttle bays, and unlike the robot you can't just duck past them. That's 72 AP bullets for a total cost of 2,160 nanites to get past a critical progression blocker. Or you could use normal bullets. With a hack replicator you'd need to spend 1.8k nanites on 144 bullets.

I'm sorry, the numbers simply don't work. All you're doing is spouting bullshit that if implemented would make the game unplayable without an incredibly specific build.

Massive gameplay advantage of sensaround over any form of motion tracker is that it doesn't tokenize information and requires player's actual attention.
In case anyone here didn't pick that up yet,

I don't disagree, hence why I said "if I had to change it".

 

[Infinitron]

 

[DraQ]

Pistol does 4 damage. @50% damage that would mean it would take 50 AP rounds to down a single maintenance bot. There are, like, 12 AP rounds in MedSci and IIRC AP rounds cost around 30 nanites each from a hacked replicator, so you're looking at needing around 1.1k of nanites to buy the rounds to kill a single bot that is intended to be destroyed (and I don't think you can even purchase AP rounds to begin with). With a regular pistol you'd need to circle strafe while unloading 100 bullets at 1 point of damage each.

Let's also not forget that you'd need 24 AP pistol bullets for every single turret. There are 3 turrets on the way to the shuttle bays, and unlike the robot you can't just duck past them. That's 72 AP bullets for a total cost of 2,160 nanites to get past a critical progression blocker. Or you could use normal bullets. With a hack replicator you'd need to spend 1.8k nanites on 144 bullets.

I'm sorry, the numbers simply don't work. All you're doing is spouting bullshit that if implemented would make the game unplayable without an incredibly specific build.

Ok, I see.

But this means that SS2 is not only fucking broken mechanically, but it's so broken there seems to be no good way to repair it.

 

[Ash]

But this means that SS2 is not only fucking broken mechanically, but it's so broken there seems to be no good way to repair it.

How in the hell did you come to that conclusion, aside from short-sightedness? There's many possible approaches you could take.

SS1 had certain labyrinth with continuously spawning autobombs where sensaround simply saved your ass even in SSportable with its mouselook (amusingly it was also the one place where terribad railgun shone). In other places it wasn't terribly useful even without mouselook.

Yeah, that's true, but for sensaround to be relevant here in the remake the autobombs would have to be near silent. And for a feature to only be actually useful in one location, well it's not really a very meaningful feature in that case is it.

If the game is filled with sneaky autobombs, deadly cyborg assassins that hide and try and get you from behind, AI with good senses and are persistent in hunting you down, as well as good general placement of enemies then sensaround may actually be useful. That's not likely to be the case though.

 

[Average Manatee]

Yeah, I remember that part. Wouldn't call it a labyrinth but it was annoying to go through (as with most in SS1, simply sprinting through at mach 3 was a good option).

The general problem with the sensaround though was that it was only really useful to begin with against melee enemies. Most of the hit-scanners took off health fast enough that even with shield and sensaround you were likely dead if they snuck up behind you. Plus enemies weren't terribly active in patrolling for you anyway, in most areas they mostly sat still until you wandered into them. Sometimes you'd have an enemy to your side that you didn't expect, but almost never directly behind you. An extendable camera or something to look around corners without getting shot would be far more useful.

 

[Ash]

Yeah. A simple and natural way we'll get snuck up on more in the reboot is if some types of enemies hear gunshots and come hunting. Then you'll get some nice surprises, though LG devs have always been persistent on extensive audio design (often that also telegraphs the NPC's intention) and the reboot seems no different so far in that regard so you'll likely always hear them coming anyway.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/1620508

Happy 4th of July! Jason here again. What an amazing week this has been! Thank you all so much for your continued support. Once again, you folks are great!

As most of you have seen, the volume of feedback we’ve been getting has been HUGE. We’ve all been reading through a lot of your questions and concerns, and we’re doing our best to keep up with all of it. In case we missed your question or comment, please go to our Reddit forums and post there if someone hasn’t already asked your question. That’s the best place for us to organize and respond to feedback right now: https://www.reddit.com/r/systemshock/

Common Questions
Before getting into patch stuff, I’d like to quickly answer the biggest questions I’ve been seeing:

• Pixelated / low-res textures - In the current demo, some textures look “pixelated” up close. This actually has nothing to do with their texture resolution. Before video cards became commonplace in the late 90s, textures did not get filtered. We’re doing the same thing to have a bit of a retro touch. In the next demo update, we’ve switched from no filtering to trilinear. Some screenshots are below in the patch preview section
• Orchestral vs. electronic music - We’re going to have an audio update written by Jonathan, our audio engineer and composer, to go over this stuff in more detail some time this week. Until then, the short answer is that the final score will definitely be more cyberpunk than just straight orchestral. Also, the full orchestra stretch goal will not change the music style. It will make all orchestral elements crisper while maintaining the electronic pieces.
• Story / plot changes - We won’t be deviating from the main story or plot from the original. We will be rewriting most of the text (well, when I say “we”, I actually mean my good friend, Mr. Chris Avellone). The overall story will be the same, but we might change some details/wording here and there for the sake of consistency and pacing.
• RPG elements - We understand this is a pretty vague term and has been confusing to backers. The original System Shock was ahead of its time and introduced a lot of new elements to gaming. We want to preserve that innovation and present a game we feel modern gamers will enjoy. Our goal is to have the gameplay somewhere between System Shock 1 and System Shock 2, with sprinkles of BioShock on top (rich melee attacks and ranged weapons, vending machines, upgrades, and damage types). If there’s enough of a demand, we’ll add a “Classic Mode” to one of the stretch goals that disables all RPG stuff as an option.
• Engine - Our pre-alpha demo is in Unity, and that is the technology the team has been using for the past several months. However, we are familiar with other engines and are open to exploring options that make sense. Changing engines during a project is a pretty big risk and not a choice to be taken lightly. At the end of the day, we will use the technology we feel is best suited to deliver the highest quality game with the resources we have.

Pre-Alpha Demo Patch #1 Preview
In a few days, we’ll have a patch out for the demo. Here are some things you can expect:

Trilinear-filtered textures

As mentioned above, the current version of the demo is using point-filtered textures. In the next patch, we’ve switched this over to trilinear to see what our backers think. Here are some before/after shots:

Before

After

Before

After
Here's an album with higher-res images.

Grenades and items

All consumable items should be usable in the next patch. The item that looks the most interesting to use is the grenade

Animated gif of grenades
We’ve also improved the responsiveness and feel of melee combat.

On top of that, we have lots of fixes and some performance improvements. We’re hoping to get the patch out within a few days. Once it’s out, we’ll post another update with some patch notes.

Kickstarter Launch Party
Stephen, Corey, and several other members of the team in the Portland area threw a Kickstarter Launch Party with our fans. They had the demo on a huge projector and even had a fan drawing contest! Here are some photos from the event.

I think that’s it for now! Let us know what you think about things. We’re always looking for feedback and want to make the best System Shock game for you folks!

 

[Athelas]

As appealing as the idea of an MCA-penned System Shock is, it might turn out to be like trying to get blood from a stone. The story in SS1 works great precisely because it's relatively minimal and unintrusive and supports the gameplay. Even the audio logs in SS1 are mostly there to provide clues on how to progress through the levels.

 

[Infinitron]

There were a few "hero" survivors on Citadel Station whose story is told via the audio logs. Abe Ghiran (who actually makes it all the way to level 8, pretty badass for a guy without cybernetics) and Bianca Schuler. Chris could have some fun with those.

Then there are the characters from Earth, like Morris Brocail, SHODAN's original programmer who helps you a bit at the very end of the game. I know Chris could do something interesting with that concept.

 

[MuscleSpark]

Filtered textures look pretty bad. If I wanted everything blurry I'd buy shitty glasses.

 

[Average Manatee]

MCA is rewriting "most" of the text? If so then this would be a first in how long?

I imagine that being given a fairly wide-ranging mandate would make him very happy.

 

[Zombra]

What? Vending machines?

 

[Kz3r0]

I am the only one getting Doom 3 vibes?

 

[Average Manatee]

AFAIK they are committed to a 1:1 architecture translation and something very close to that in terms of the story progression, so it won't be linear or be based entirely on "surprise" set pieces.

In any case Doom 3 took a lot of inspiration from SS1/2 anyway, so there's going to be some overlap.

 

[Shaewaroz]

It seems they want to pander to the SS2/Bioshock fanbase rather than make a truly faithful remake. RPG elements, orchestral score - next thing we know they're taking out cyberspace. Not a surprise, but disappointing nonetheless. Feeling less enthusiastic about this already.

 

[Melan]

They have already taken out cyberspace, and will be "extensively redesigning it".

 

[Darth Roxor]

They have already taken out cyberspace, and will be "extensively redesigning it".

exclusive early prototype screenshot of nu cyberspace

Spoiler

 

[Shaewaroz]

They have already taken out cyberspace, and will be "extensively redesigning it".

 

[Spectacle]

Doesn't seem like there's anything in this remake for me, who loved System Shock but never could get into no. 2 because it deviated so much from the original.

 

[Durandal]

I swear that the AoE of the grenades used to be way bigger in SS1. Then again, the second largest cause of my death in SS1 is a grenade thrown in my face when I tried to throw it while leaning past a wall.

 

[jcd]

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[tormund]

So, they are still avoiding to even mention their earlier promise about releasing SS's source code to public? Modern source port with modding potential could negate this remake's possible failure to deliver...

 

[DraQ]

'Nades look nice.
They should make filtering mode a toggle.

But this means that SS2 is not only fucking broken mechanically, but it's so broken there seems to be no good way to repair it.

How in the hell did you come to that conclusion, aside from short-sightedness?

The former or the latter?

The former is due to my keen perception that allows me to notice the obvious.
The latter is because SS2 is an awful tangle of bad mechanics where it seems impossible to fix one thing without hopelessly breaking two others.

There's many possible approaches you could take.

What would you do?

Yeah. A simple and natural way we'll get snuck up on more in the reboot is if some types of enemies hear gunshots and come hunting. Then you'll get some nice surprises, though LG devs have always been persistent on extensive audio design (often that also telegraphs the NPC's intention) and the reboot seems no different so far in that regard so you'll likely always hear them coming anyway.

You can always set up situation where you hear the enemies without being able to tell when they come and from which direction or where the background noise drowns out audio cues. Both could signalize to the player that now is a good moment to activate sensaround.

Also, the main drawback of sensaround in SS1 was that it blocked most of your HUD, a modern, high-res game could get around that.

They have already taken out cyberspace, and will be "extensively redesigning it".

If I had to name two SS1 elements not even mother could love they would be cyberspace and railgun.

No matter how they redesign it (as long as it isn't some fucked up minigame like Hanoi Towers) will probably be better than how it played in the original.

Orchestral soundtrack is bad because it just doesn't fit the game, but I muted the original soundtrack anyway because it was just a cacophony of beeps sounding as if played on PC-speaker. If they manage to redo the original soundtrack so that it doesn't sound like having forks jammed into eardrums, I'll be ok with that. If they stick with orchestral shit, I'll just mute it this time around as well.

 

[pippin]

Removing cyberspace could be good, it really is the shittiest part of an otherwise excellent game. Idon't know what they are going to do, but making it so being able to hack certain computers is tied to the security levels on one floor could be a nice touch.

 

[thesoup]

Honestly, no music is probably the best. The demo had no music, and it was more eerie for it. Ambient yes, music no.