KickStarter System Shock 1 Remake by Nightdive Studios

[vean]

Unity runs Cities Skylines doesn't it? So it's probably not the problem here.

 

[DraQ]

The biggest issue was the lack of balance between skills. Exotic, energy and maybe also heavy weapons (apart from the grenade launcher) were all useless, compared to a good assault rifle (a weapon that you could find early on, also, and which used the most common type of bullets), and half or more of the PSI powers were absolutely crap.

I love System Shock 2 (more than SS1), but if you want to play well you need at least to read a guide to prepare your build properly (since the guy who plays it for the first time can't know that in the boring "standard weapons" class there are all the useful weapons of the game, while in the super cool "exotic weapon" class there are only shitty ones), and that's not a good thing.

Well I can conclusively say that energy weapons rock, having finished an impossible LP with just a laser pistol. By the end I carried around 7 laser pistols and had essentially infinite ammo.

I don't know about the other categories though, but heavy has the granade launcher, and exotic has the shard, which I know are also good weapons.

Well, laser pistol, shard and GL are all practical weapons - laser is great for lasting cheap firepower, shard is great melee weapon and GL is multipurpose nuke, however, they are all level 1 weapons meaning you don't need to specialize in them and dump tons of cyber modules into their respective skills to be able to use them (and with GL it's actually completely pointless to do so) while the higher level, more demanding weapons are mostly garbage - unlike standard weapons with god-tier AR.

With energy weapons you get laser pistol which is great for shooting cameras and hybrids, but overall doesn't have much stopping power and sucks against better organics.
Then there is rapier, which is nice, but does reduced damage to stuff you'd like to use it on, extra damage to stuff that explodes in your face when meleed, gains little bonus damage from skill (due to not being tier 1 weapon), is rather expensive skill wise and most of the time is inferior to shard (at least you can use it to stab you-know-who in the face). Then you get EMP rifle which is like laser pistol only even more cripplingly overspecialized, as it won't hurt anything that's not at least partially mechanical at all.

With exotics you first get even more extra cost due to research requirements. Then you get shard, which is actually great apart from not hurting robots as much (but they explode in your face when destroyed, so it's not much of a problem) and you-know-who at all. Then you get two weapons that outright refuse to hurt anything mechanical, degrade like stupid and are problematic to use.

With heavy you get GL which is superb and versatile, although ammo constrained. It also deals so much baseline damage, that it doesn't get any better with increasing skill - just mod it and 1hk everything. Then you get stasis field generator which, as non-damaging, but rather ammo hungry weapon is fairly pointless. Then you get insanely disappointing fusion cannon which deals paltry damage for a supposed portable nuke-spewer, reduced damage to anything organic and fires excruciatingly slow projectiles that mean anything mechanical it would deal good damage to will fry you ten times over with lazorz before your shots even reach it.

Meanwhile with standard weapons you get pistol which is weak, but versatile and bullshit free, shotgun, which is very easy to amass ammo for and a great workhorse weapon and finally AR which displaces pistol fires accurate rounds that reach your targets instantly, deals tons of damage with each shot, has abundant ammo, features specialized ammo against all enemy types that deals more damage than pretty much everything apart from grenade launcher, and can fire full auto in the unlikely case you'll ever need more firepower. And pumping standard weapon skill improves your wrench damage.



Systemically SS2 is one huge bad joke.

 

[Average Manatee]

EW1 + HW1 is still one of the most OP and efficient combinations in the game, up there with an assault rifle. In fact early EW is the only way to play the whole game entirely without melee due to the insane efficiency of the Laser Pistol. It's actually quite enjoyable to just run through the first few decks with a stack of laser pistols calmly one-shotting virtually everything and only rarely needing to stop for a recharge. Completely destroys any tension that would exist from needing to sneak around with a wrench.

EMP rifle is indeed a piece of crap, but boosting EW already gives such great returns on the laser pistol anyway. It's worth noting that while the AR is OP, a standard pistol with +75% damage from SW6 is already quite close to the AR in damage, so you can see why its worth raising EW just for laser pistol damage.

The Fusion cannon becomes ridiculously efficient with the mod that reduces ammo consumption and makes it good for clearing a room of multiple weak enemies that aren't spiders. It's surely not worth taking HW6 for (you could just take EW1), but its decently useful.

Exotics... yeah. They are just way too overpriced with the research requirement. But the final weapon would be one of the best in the game if not for the GL bug that makes the modded GL so OP. At least its pretty easy to have a massive stockpile of ammo for them by the time you get them, and with psionics you have a limitless supply. You also need research 3 for enemy organs anyway, which is enough to get the 2nd tier weapon. Never tried an Energy/Exotics run, could work alright.


In general I like the weapons of SS2, it just feels like it was intended that the game be played with Easy/Normal levels of cyber modules that assumed you would be able to unlock basically everything. The higher-tier weapons are just too specialized to be worth the cost on impossible unless you are specifically going for a gimmick, while the AR's specialized ammo is too powerful (x4 multiplier? wtf?)

 

[Destroid]

I don't get how this is summoning such huge piles of cash.

 

[Melan]

SS is an industry darling that everyone likes to namedrop, but relatively few people have actually played.* It is getting good hype.
__________
* When people say they like System Shock, they are almost always thinking of SS2. This has definitely influenced how this remake is being made and how it is being sold.

 

[Spectacle]

http://www.pcgamer.com/the-system-shock-remake-delivers-a-haunting-return-to-citadel-station/

The System Shock remake delivers a haunting return to Citadel station
The classic cyberpunk horror game is back, and it's been seriously upgraded.

What is this bullshit? System Shock isn't a horror game, it's a straight dungeon crawler in an unconventional setting.

 

[Zombra]

I don't get how this is summoning such huge piles of cash.

What the actual christ. I turn my back for a day and half a million dollars appears.

 

[LESS T_T]

Stephen Kick interview: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-01-how-will-system-shocks-reboot-differ-from-the-original

Remaking a classic video game is an intimidating prospect. Stick too close to the original and you run the risk of releasing an archaic project that maybe doesn't hold up as well in modern times as it did in its day (see Doom 3: BFG Edition). Change too much, however, and purists will complain that the feel or tone is too far afield from what they remember (see Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes). Heck, even the best remakes still fall shy of their source material in at least some minor way. Wind Waker HD is a more vibrant spectacle than its 2003 GameCube forbear, but its new bloom lighting occasionally robs Link of some of his charm. Likewise, Resident Evil's remake (and ReRemake) are easy on the eyes, but the "better" voice acting is bad in a generic, boring way, whereas it used to be indescribably bad in a hilarious way.

The Vancouver, Washington-based Nightdive Studios is currently walking this tightrope on its remake of cult classic sci-fi horror game System Shock. We liked the demo, and the game's Kickstarter is off to a rousing start, nearly meeting its $900k goal in three days, but there's still a lot of questions about how Nightdive will approach a 2017 version of a 1994 PC game from an era where you could only look along the X axis.

To find out more about this, I caught up with Nightdive founder Stephen Kick at an industry event in sunny Portland, Oregon to discuss the developer's vision for a new System Shock.

When asked about how much of the game's level design and mechanics would stay true to the original, Kick says "We're maintaining the original vision and the original aesthetic and narrative as close as we can. But obviously the UI and player movement and just the way the player interacts with the game is getting a complete overhaul." To wit: there's now mouse-look and a handful of Kickstarter backers will make cameos with their simulated corpse and accompanying audio log offering new vignettes about the horrors that proceeded the player's awakening on Citadel Station.

When pressed for more specifics, Kick explains that most of the new system added will be cribbed from the game's bigger, better and more badass sequel, System Shock 2. "A more robust RPG levelling system is something we'd like to do - and what was successfully done in System Shock 2. I guess you could say that we're going to keep the narrative and level design pretty much one to one," he says. "We'll have some freedoms involved, but the overall game is going to play more like a hybrid between System Shock 1 and System Shock 2."

"We all really love System Shock 2. We felt it was such a wonderful progression from the first game when it first came out. By implementing those systems we're going to have kind of like the penultimate System Shock experience."

Yet even System Shock 2 is pretty archaic by today's standards. It is 17 years old, after all. Is there anything new to the series Nightdive would like to implement? Kick says there's a "very light crafting system where you'll be able to find components for different things and be able to assemble them in your inventor to create a health pack or some other useful consumable items." He also suggests weapon upgrades as a possible feature, depending on how things go.

That's the thing about remakes: it's not always clear which more modern systems will be welcome and which will break the game. Remember when Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes let players aim in first-person, making many of its originally isometric encounters a joke?

"We understand how highly regarded the franchise is and how guarded a lot of people are about it as well, so we're going to use the utmost discretion," Kick says. "If we introduce something in early prototypes and it just seems off or it totally rebalances the core foundation of the game, we won't use it. We're not at that point, but there's going to be a lot of iteration and prototyping involved with some of these systems until we find the best fit."

While System Shock's remake will generously implement additions from its sequel, Nightdive won't stray too far from the path forged by Looking Glass 22 years ago. In fact, one of the reasons Nightdive is developing a remake rather than an all new title in the saga is because this will be the studio's first time developing a full commercial game from the ground up (even if it's based on an already existing title). Prior to this, Nightdive was a tiny studio that made a living restoring lost gems after their licensing had lapsed. It made a name for itself resurrecting the earlier System Shock titles along with other cult classics like the first Turok game and Harlan Ellison's horrific graphic adventure I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream.

"We would not be ready to make System Shock 3 as our first internal project. The pressure behind that would just be so considerably high," Kick says. "We felt the only ones who could truly deliver that experience would be the original creators." Thankfully, said original creators - including Looking Glass co-founder Paul Neurath and System Shock producer Warren Spector - have reunited at OtherSide Entertainment where they've worked out a licensing deal with Nightdive to continue the saga.

Kick is adamant that OtherSide Entertainment will have complete freedom in developing the first brand new System Shock adventure in nearly two decades, though the two studios are going to be consulting with one another for quality control and brand consistency.

This is a win-win for Kick and co. as it allows the cyberpunk fan the ability to remake one of his favourite games while also having the power to pass the baton on to his heroes to make more. "How much more could you ask for for System Shock 3? Having the original creators do it themselves!" he beams.

It's an enviable position for Kick, a System Shock super fan who approaches the series with the same reverence as he did in his early teenage years and is still seemingly in disbelief that he owns the IP. Yet for however excited Kick is, it's the player who stands to gain the most. After nearly 20 years, we have not one but two System Shock games coming out: a remake by fans and a new adventure by the series' creators. Who could have seen that one coming?

 

[Infinitron]

Nobody has written about how utterly bizarre it is that the System Shock IP ended up in the hands of a random fratboy. It was up for grabs, anybody could have gotten it! They just had to ask, but not one major publisher cared! Crazy.

Maybe it's like, they thought if they tried buying it, then so would another publisher and it would result in a bidding war?

 

[Melan]

most of the new system added will be cribbed from the game's bigger, better and more badass seque

Fuck yourselves, game journalists.

the penultimate System Shock experience

Yet even System Shock 2 is pretty archaic by today's standards.

You goddamn cunts.

 

[Darth Roxor]

system shock is great

we love system shock

especially the first one for its horror atmosphere and rpg elements

 

[tormund]

That Eurogamer guy was the biggest fan of System Shock, influential horror RPG series, ever since he played that first game he managed to find on wikipedia.

He is right though, they should stop living in the past (TM) or looking at those old games through nostalgia googles (TM), and they should implement suitable innovations and modern conventions (TM). Beloved RPG Bioshock Infinite was a major step forward for this classic series, but can this remake push the envelope (TM) even further? Innovative Games such as Gone Home present a major improvement on the essence of classic "Shock" games, innovating on their innovative storytelling innovations while redefining archaic concept of "gameplay" that limited those classic RPGs from reaching their true potential (TM).

 

[Carrion]

Yet even System Shock 2 is pretty archaic by today's standards.

You goddamn cunts.

It's true, SS2 is hopelessly dated. However, if you just simplify the mechanics a bit, add a new coat of paint and replace one word in the title, you suddenly get a Citizen Kane of gaming that everyone will eat up like it was the most innovative thing ever.

Gaming journalism at its finest.

 

[Ash]

Brofists all around when I get that access to that functionality.

 

[Melan]

(stuff)

You forgot "preserving the DNA of the series", but I give you a BINGO nevertheless because you mentioned "essence".

 

[Riskbreaker]

I imagine that it would be possible to influence them on the entire "horror" atmosphere and soundtrack thing. Leveling and crafting tho, those are parts of standard checklist for every other modern AAA, and I reckon they probably imagine such things to be major draw in for this latest batch of gamers.

 

[mindx2]

At almost $700k this seems certain to get funded. The real test will be how their updates draw in new pledgers or make existing ones go higher. They have gotten quite a bit of mainstream media coverage that helped but let's see if that coverage continues.

 

[---]

PS4 version incoming?

We’ve been listening to your requests and have started discussions with Sony regarding a PS4 release – at this stage we can’t confirm System Shock on PS4, but we will follow up with an announcement in the near future with more details.

--- Stephen Kick, CEO of Nightdive Studios and Creative Director on System Shock​

Source: http://segmentnext.com/2016/07/01/system-shock-remake-might-playstation-4/

 

[DeepOcean]

Hope this doesn't affect the final Ui, if they go with the typical "Ohh, it is so much cheaper tro make only one Ui for PC and consoles." better they prepare their anus to be inserted a very sharp wooden object Vlad style.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Hope this doesn't affect the final Ui

you know it will

 

[Infinitron]

I guess you guys missed the fact that they're already commited to an Xbox One release.

 

[Astral Rag]

So a lot of people here have said good points and I'm mostly not gonna repeat them, so, closing words:

- Engines don't matter as much as the general gaming public think they do

 

[DraQ]

EW1 + HW1 is still one of the most OP and efficient combinations in the game, up there with an assault rifle. In fact early EW is the only way to play the whole game entirely without melee due to the insane efficiency of the Laser Pistol. It's actually quite enjoyable to just run through the first few decks with a stack of laser pistols calmly one-shotting virtually everything and only rarely needing to stop for a recharge. Completely destroys any tension that would exist from needing to sneak around with a wrench.

EMP rifle is indeed a piece of crap, but boosting EW already gives such great returns on the laser pistol anyway. It's worth noting that while the AR is OP, a standard pistol with +75% damage from SW6 is already quite close to the AR in damage, so you can see why its worth raising EW just for laser pistol damage.

The Fusion cannon becomes ridiculously efficient with the mod that reduces ammo consumption and makes it good for clearing a room of multiple weak enemies that aren't spiders. It's surely not worth taking HW6 for (you could just take EW1), but its decently useful.

Exotics... yeah. They are just way too overpriced with the research requirement. But the final weapon would be one of the best in the game if not for the GL bug that makes the modded GL so OP. At least its pretty easy to have a massive stockpile of ammo for them by the time you get them, and with psionics you have a limitless supply. You also need research 3 for enemy organs anyway, which is enough to get the 2nd tier weapon. Never tried an Energy/Exotics run, could work alright.


In general I like the weapons of SS2, it just feels like it was intended that the game be played with Easy/Normal levels of cyber modules that assumed you would be able to unlock basically everything. The higher-tier weapons are just too specialized to be worth the cost on impossible unless you are specifically going for a gimmick, while the AR's specialized ammo is too powerful (x4 multiplier? wtf?)

Does EW level have any influence over LP's NORM mode, or do most of the bonuses fall beneath rounding threshold?

Anyway, pumping any of the weapon skills other than standard is of questionable utility. Like you said, other weapons are highly specialized (EMP, exotics) and may have additional flaws (FC's slow projectiles creating huge fire-hit delay and rendering FC questionable as self-defense tool), while the AR is an all-purpose weapon that works no worse than highly specialized ones against specific threats and has no drawbacks like slow projectiles or bad rate of fire.

It's partly a fault of SS2 damage system - it doesn't try to represent enemies relative "hardness". A robotic enemy, is susceptible to different damage types but isn't any harder to damage using generic attacks than a fleshy hybrid. The result is that instead of having to overcome robot's physical armor, standard rounds and frag grenades deal the same amount of damage as they do against fleshies and AP rounds are actually super-effective instead of just being something that lets small arms be useful against heavy armor. It's all awfully bland and symmetrical.
If instead of that AP rounds did, say, 0.5x damage to everything, anti-personnel did no damage to robots (and maybe x0.25 to cyborgs) and standard did at most x0.25 damage to robots, standard weapons would no longer be OP faceroll machines, but small-arms that work the best for shooting people and have the expected difficulties dealing with heavy armor.
Same with GL which would require specialized ammo to be effective against armor.

There is also the issue of some damage types not really fitting weapons they're assigned to. Laser shouldn't deal nebulous energy damage. It should either burn or explode stuff (depending on setting). Rapier is outright STATED to burn stuff, but no, energy damage.
If they wanted energy damage they could have given you some sort of particle beam or something as a higher tier weapon. Maybe let it pass through enemies too.

Of course unlocking weapons via skill is also bull and exacerbates all the problems, because what might have been a great auxiliary weapon suddenly becomes a horrid waste of cybermodules.

 

[Infinitron]

We should try to get DraQ hired by Night Dive as a consultant if they hit that stretch goal.

 

[Average Manatee]

Does EW level have any influence over LP's NORM mode, or do most of the bonuses fall beneath rounding threshold?

Anyway, pumping any of the weapon skills other than standard is of questionable utility. Like you said, other weapons are highly specialized (EMP, exotics) and may have additional flaws (FC's slow projectiles creating huge fire-hit delay and rendering FC questionable as self-defense tool), while the AR is an all-purpose weapon that works no worse than highly specialized ones against specific threats and has no drawbacks like slow projectiles or bad rate of fire.

It should (2 base damage *1.75 = 3.5, and modification or organ bonuses might get it to 4), but its fairly irrelevant as the best way to use the laser pistol is almost always overcharge. Just swap between multiple laser pistols as they cool down. Fully-modded and EW6 laser pistol does around 40 base damage, with 14ish-16 overcharge shots available per pistol. Bring a stack of 5 pistols to swap between and you're looking at enough shots to just blaze through everything but the body of the many or massive amounts of arachnids. All freely rechargable or costing about a single psi hypo with electron cascade. Rumblers die in 6 shots.

By comparison an Assault Rifle maxed takes around 17 shots to down a rumbler or 6 with Anti-Personnel rounds in SCP. I think they nerfed the base damage from 10 to 8 and the multiplier for specialized ammo from 4x to 3x, so the total damage from specialized rounds was almost cut in half. Also compare to the vanilla pistol which would do about 7 base damage with SW6 (though I think this was nerfed, now it does 5 or 6 damage at SW6). Still powerful because you just have tons of ammo and can shoot fast, but not gamebreaking.

To add some numbers to the Fusion Cannon: 3 shots on normal mode or 2 shots on death mode for the Rumbler. Takes only 3 or 2 prisms on a gun that can hold 50. FIFTY. And it has an AoE that can legitimately empty a medium sized room. About as damaging as the GL but a grenades come in packs of 3, not 20. Let's also not forget that Prisms are cheaper at replicators than specialized bullets, only standard bullets are cheaper. Downing a Rumbler takes 36 nanites of Prism ammo but 180 of Anti-Personnel ammo. As an efficient way to destroy ANYTHING, Fusion Cannon is pretty good so long as that anything isn't in your face. You can treat it as an AoE plasma rifle on normal mode and a mini-BFG on death mode.

It's partly a fault of SS2 damage system - it doesn't try to represent enemies relative "hardness". A robotic enemy, is susceptible to different damage types but isn't any harder to damage using generic attacks than a fleshy hybrid. The result is that instead of having to overcome robot's physical armor, standard rounds and frag grenades deal the same amount of damage as they do against fleshies and AP rounds are actually super-effective instead of just being something that lets small arms be useful against heavy armor. It's all awfully bland and symmetrical.
If instead of that AP rounds did, say, 0.5x damage to everything, anti-personnel did no damage to robots (and maybe x0.25 to cyborgs) and standard did at most x0.25 damage to robots, standard weapons would no longer be OP faceroll machines, but small-arms that work the best for shooting people and have the expected difficulties dealing with heavy armor.
Same with GL which would require specialized ammo to be effective against armor.

That's effectively no different from simply multiplying robot health by 4x*. Basically playing musical chairs with your HP/damage values. None of this does anything to represent "hardness", if you want to represent that then you'll want a separate armor system that has flat damage reduction rather than a % damage reduction. Basically do what New Vegas did.

*Actually, you are REDUCING the benefit of AP weapons with those exact numbers, since you want AP to only be a 100% bonus over standard while now its 200-300%

There is also the issue of some damage types not really fitting weapons they're assigned to. Laser shouldn't deal nebulous energy damage. It should either burn or explode stuff (depending on setting). Rapier is outright STATED to burn stuff, but no, energy damage.
If they wanted energy damage they could have given you some sort of particle beam or something as a higher tier weapon. Maybe let it pass through enemies too.

Yeah, well, I think its just that people expect high-tech weapons to be good vs. robots or something. Energy IS burning, and any energy/laser weapon in RL would excel against fleshy targets (hand-held laser weapons today can ignite clothing with a few seconds of sustained contact and flesh isn't too far beyond that) while shooting armored targets is completely useless if your laser isn't of the variety that is mounted on a nuclear-powered ship.

Imagine if the Laser Pistol was specialized vs. Flesh while the EMP rifle was still specialized vs. Armor. Energy weapons would totally rape everything.