System Shock 1 vs 2 - Which is better and why?

[anvi]

Ss2 at least has actual inventory. Afaik ss1 has just a Fallout 3 and Mass Effect style list.

The first game is great, go play it. It is still an inventory.

This guy does a review that is pretty well observed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnh0l_Ecpx4

Codex should watch and learn.

 

[Master]

Please dont link to youtube hipsters anymore.
He doesnt even mention the inventory. I guess it was too beneath him or something, like with all these types...

 

[anvi]

You can see the inventory in the video dummy. It is like a list but no different to any other inventory. Instead of an icon it is text. And the guy is right with what he says. Hipster or not he knows why it is a special game and deserves credit, yet here you are on a specialist RPG site and you are completely clueless. You are like a million shitty redditors and now other codex losers who rave about a game you played and hate on another one you didn't play because you need to feel less shitty about missing out on it.

 

[DraQ]

Ss2 at least has actual inventory. Afaik ss1 has just a Fallout 3 and Mass Effect style list.

You know that the most frequently used meaning of the word 'inventory' is literally just a list of stuff, right?

 

[Master]

You can see the inventory in the video dummy. It is like a list but no different to any other inventory. Instead of an icon it is text. And the guy is right with what he says. Hipster or not he knows why it is a special game and deserves credit, yet here you are on a specialist RPG site and you are completely clueless. You are like a million shitty redditors and now other codex losers who rave about a game you played and hate on another one you didn't play because you need to feel less shitty about missing out on it.

You are right that i should finish the game. I did play for several hours. However, that guy doesnt know shit. He also thinks cyberspace sucks. And that the intro is "goofy". Fuck him.

Ss2 at least has actual inventory. Afaik ss1 has just a Fallout 3 and Mass Effect style list.

You know that the most frequently used meaning of the word 'inventory' is literally just a list of stuff, right?

Yes but still. Its the laziest way to do it.

 

[anvi]

Ok fuck him. But you get to see the game at least. The best game you never finished.

 

[Master]

I will finish it. But i doubt it will be as good as SS2, let alone better. It already has at least one flaw, while SS2 has none.

 

[anvi]

What flaw? The fact that you played 2 before 1 means you are a retard by the way. As well as the fact that you don't respect the older game that did everything first.

 

[Master]

You cant be serious with that atittude.

Its not a big flaw, but still. All that complexity and overdesigning, and when it came to the inventory they said "eh, whatever. just list all the items".
SS2 otoh, is perfect.

 

[Master]

Does anyone know which game first had a grid inventory?

 

[ciox]

Does anyone know which game first had a grid inventory?

I don't know about grid but Julian Gollop was simulating inventories with both weight and size limits and encumbrance as early as 1986-1988 with the tactical sci-fi games Rebel Star and Laser Squad.

You probably had that even earlier in something like Ultima, but combined with stuff like setting explosives to customizable timers, managing your loadout and ammo for all your weapons, set off explosive chain reactions, throw any item, search bodies, open/close/lock/unlock/destroy doors... these games offer a really strong simulation experience that makes you feel like you're playing some kind of proto System Shock / Thief game albeit from above...and in turns.
It's definitely where I first ever encountered the "formula" for this type of game.

 

[anvi]

You cant be serious with that atittude.

Its not a big flaw, but still. All that complexity and overdesigning, and when it came to the inventory they said "eh, whatever. just list all the items".
SS2 otoh, is perfect.

I am serious, you missed a huge reveal in the story because you played the games the wrong way round... You played them in the wrong order because you are a shitty kid who listened to other shitty kids on the internet about a great game that you missed, so you played it and didn't think about it being a sequel. Now you spoiled the game you chose and you missed the more impressive game, all by being a shitty kid. Also the inventory thing makes no sense. It is no different at all to the sequel. In SS2 the items are little pictures in little boxes. In SS1 the items are little words in little boxes. Also don't call it perfect, you don't get to judge perfection when you haven't even played its nearest game to compare. Go back to r/gaming where you belong.

 

[Master]

The difference is items can have different size in SS2 while in SS1 its all the same.

And i didnt care about the reveal as im not a storyfag so...

Spoiler

 

[anvi]

But there is barely any story in the game, the little that there is in the game is worth experiencing. And the different size items means nothing, how does that affect anything? You really need to be on reddit.

 

[Master]

And the different size items means nothing, how does that affect anything?

 

[anvi]

You don't even know the answer. Ask on reddit.

 

[Master]

I presume if the item is too big, it cant fit inside..?

 

[Katana1000S]

Well, the poll was a close call and that's how i would put it if i had to choose and vote.

SS1 I loved, then when SS2 was announced I hoped for the best, and damn it was good too.

I fear the worst for SS3 though

 

[Psquit]

I will finish it. But i doubt it will be as good as SS2, let alone better. It already has at least one flaw, while SS2 has none.

The end game content, after you kill the many the final battle feels like they run out of money, and rushed the whole cyberspace old school ss1 crap.

 

[Master]

Its not a problem. Youve done everything, seen everything, its time for the game to end. What more do you want?
The ss1 cyberspace look is a nice icing on the cake.

 

[Maggot]

SS1's final cyberspace area is worse if not just as bad as SS2's final area. At least in SS2 the final boss isn't a race to mash right mouse button before you hit the game over screen.

 

[RoSoDude]

SS1's final cyberspace maze is one of the few decent ones - while the underlying cyberspace mechanics are undeniably quite poor, the layout is at least more interesting to explore than the usual, with some loops and optional areas. Arguably the best cyberspace mazes on offer can be found in the System Shock: Rewired fan mission, as they're focused more on exploration and flying challenges (lots of mines to avoid in tight corridors) than the godawful combat.

In my opinion, SS2's cyberspace nostalgiagrab sequence is the only bad content in the entire game. I will gladly defend the Rickenbacker and the Body of the Many because I think they're genuinely great levels that put your skills and resources to the test, but SS1's Bridge level easily beats SS2's "Where Am I?". There's just nothing there in the latter -- seeing Medical again with flattened textures and lighting isn't cool, the enemies and floating hurt blocks are boring, and there's barely any actual level design to speak of. Given more time, they could have had a mind-bending sequence filled with combat, security systems, traps, and platforming sections, possibly mashing up redone bits and pieces of Citadel station floating in vectorized cyberspace as you complete some final objective to unlock SHODAN's hidden lair. The issue of the Many being dead presents a challenge for enemy variety, though perhaps some enemy models could have been retextured and repurposed as mutant creations from SHODAN's memory -- I certainly wouldn't have bat an eye if the overall encounter design were good, as the game has all but narratively jumped the shark by that point anyway.

Both SHODAN bossfights are pretty bad, though SS2's at least has a few solutions for different playstyles and requires more from the player than just battling your camera controls to mash RMB on a blue cone sprite with zero hit feedback (did I mention cyberspace combat is terrible?) until the game rather arbitrarily decides it's over.

The shitflinging contests about which System Shock is a perfect masterpiece and which one is overhyped garbage liked only by [insert generational pejorative]s who just don't get it, man are pretty idiotic. Granted, I'm happy to join in and dunk on SS1's braindead combat AI, poorly fleshed out mechanics, unbalanced resource economy and so on, but it's only because I prefer SS2 by a decent margin and many of the people in this thread are applying one critical lens to the game they love (which emphasizes the warm fuzzies it gave them) and a different critical lens to the other (which emphasizes the COLD HARD FACTS about its shortcomings). Guess what, both games were highly complex, hugely innovative, and also fairly flawed. The first game isn't trying to be as much of a survival horror FPS/RPG, and the second game isn't trying to be as much of a dungeon crawling Metroidvaniawhatchamacallit. Which game you prefer will depend on how much you value each type of experience and what you expect about its execution, and some less tangible stuff like atmosphere (as well as complaints about SS1's interface, I suppose, but quit being a baby and just go play the SSEE source port without hotkeys). I love both games, but SS2 is second only to Deus Ex as my favorite game.

You may now resume your tirades about boomers/zoomers who have the wrong opinions about two games that are four times as old as there are years between them -- it is certainly revealing of how little the medium has advanced in the meantime.

 

[anvi]

The shitflinging contests about which System Shock is a perfect masterpiece and which one is overhyped garbage liked only by [insert generational pejorative]s who just don't get it, man are pretty idiotic.

Both of them are miles from a perfect masterpiece. My point is that SS1 did it all first and a lot earlier, and was miles ahead of any competition at the time. None of that is true of the second game.

 

[Terenty]

Now that Prey exists, System Shocks are obsolete, close the poll

 

[Master]

SS1's final cyberspace maze is one of the few decent ones - while the underlying cyberspace mechanics are undeniably quite poor, the layout is at least more interesting to explore than the usual, with some loops and optional areas. Arguably the best cyberspace mazes on offer can be found in the System Shock: Rewired fan mission, as they're focused more on exploration and flying challenges (lots of mines to avoid in tight corridors) than the godawful combat.

In my opinion, SS2's cyberspace nostalgiagrab sequence is the only bad content in the entire game. I will gladly defend the Rickenbacker and the Body of the Many because I think they're genuinely great levels that put your skills and resources to the test, but SS1's Bridge level easily beats SS2's "Where Am I?". There's just nothing there in the latter -- seeing Medical again with flattened textures and lighting isn't cool, the enemies and floating hurt blocks are boring, and there's barely any actual level design to speak of. Given more time, they could have had a mind-bending sequence filled with combat, security systems, traps, and platforming sections, possibly mashing up redone bits and pieces of Citadel station floating in vectorized cyberspace as you complete some final objective to unlock SHODAN's hidden lair. The issue of the Many being dead presents a challenge for enemy variety, though perhaps some enemy models could have been retextured and repurposed as mutant creations from SHODAN's memory -- I certainly wouldn't have bat an eye if the overall encounter design were good, as the game has all but narratively jumped the shark by that point anyway.

That would be how Thief 2 did it - one giant ass mission at the end. Some people liked that, some didnt.
Frankly, it wouldve been nice but even if it ended by crashing to desktop at a random point i wouldnt care much either. As long as what came before was good.