Vapourware System Shock 3 by OtherSide Entertainment - taken over by Tencent!

[Unkillable Cat]

To be more precise...SS2 doesn't give you a choice in the matter. Do, or die.

I've read interviews and chatlogs from SS2 devs (talking about a theoretical SS3) about what they wanted in their games, and in a perfect world you would have had more choices, like helping both factions to accomplish their goals, but still leaving them with no edge over their adversary. BUT, as we all know...a narrative had to be constructed, a story to be told, a game to be made within an acceptable timeframe, and it to sell copies to recoup expenses. You can't have everything.

Being able to surrender to The Many, or telling SHODAN to fuck off, was apparentely deemed to be impossible without the standard "GAME OVER" screen creeping in, or a huge cash injection.

Remember, most games are made on a budget - it's rare when you can have everything you want.

 

[Ash]

To be more precise...SS2 doesn't give you a choice in the matter. Do, or die.

I've read interviews and chatlogs from SS2 devs (talking about a theoretical SS3) about what they wanted in their games, and in a perfect world you would have had more choices, like helping both factions to accomplish their goals, but still leaving them with no edge over their adversary. BUT, as we all know...a narrative had to be constructed, a story to be told, a game to be made within an acceptable timeframe, and it to sell copies to recoup expenses. You can't have everything.

Being able to surrender to The Many, or telling SHODAN to fuck off, was apparentely deemed to be impossible without the standard "GAME OVER" screen creeping in, or a huge cash injection.

Remember, most games are made on a budget - it's rare when you can have everything you want.

Yep. System Shock 2 is one of the most restrictive Immersive Sims yet also one of the best. Choice for choice's sake is not always a good thing. The relevance of each choice is more important than the number of them (but being an RPG fan, I still want there to be loads, of course).

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Wanna hear something truly hilarious? SS2 is loved and adorned by many Codexers, yet a game that offers tons of Choice & Consequence (which Codexers worship, but SS2 doesn't offer) is universally loathed and reviled by Codexers.

*hums Undertale theme*

 

[Athelas]

I wouldn't be surprised if the option to side with the Many was something that was planned but cut due to time/budget constraints, considering how heavily the game teases allying with them against Shodan.

Wanna hear something truly hilarious? SS2 is loved and adorned by many Codexers, yet a game that offers tons of Choice & Consequence (which Codexers worship, but SS2 doesn't offer) is universally loathed and reviled by Codexers.

*hums Undertale theme*

That isn't exactly some grand revelation. You could have replaced 'C&C' with 'turn-based combat' and replaced 'Undertale' with 'thousands of jRPG's' and arrived at the same conclusion.

 

[LESS T_T]

Spector hinted themes he'd like to explore in SS3: http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/vi...ose-in-his-virtual-worlds/Content?oid=5018594

Both Deus Ex and System Shock were influenced by dystopian ideas. Do you think any of that will wind its way into System Shock 3?

I don't want to give away too much about the new System Shock game, but I will say I don't see conspiracy theories playing too big a role. I'm more interested these days in things like corporate power and influence, and the seemingly inevitable singularity—when machines become as smart or smarter than humans. I'm pretty sure we'll be exploring those things.

 

[Infinitron]

Spector hinted themes he'd like to explore in SS3: http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/vi...ose-in-his-virtual-worlds/Content?oid=5018594

Both Deus Ex and System Shock were influenced by dystopian ideas. Do you think any of that will wind its way into System Shock 3?

I don't want to give away too much about the new System Shock game, but I will say I don't see conspiracy theories playing too big a role. I'm more interested these days in things like corporate power and influence, and the seemingly inevitable singularity—when machines become as smart or smarter than humans. I'm pretty sure we'll be exploring those things.

Well, that's the kind of thing you explore in cyberpunk. Once again, SS2 causes some trouble in that it seemed to be set in a kind of transitional point between cyberpunk and classic Star Trek-ish "Terran Alliance" sci-fi, with the rise of the UNN. Post-cyberpunk, if you will. And now it sounds like Warren wants to de-emphasize that.

 

[Ruhfuss]

The concept of cyber modules was great,

It was an OK abstraction for XP in RPGs.

only it wasn't explained how they improve both attributes and skills,

Which I think is also OK, because...

that's all that was needed imo, just some flimsy explanation of the software enhancement.

...there's truely no need for another case of "Midi-chlorians".

 

[ColCol]

We all know that there will be no real stats in this game. I calling it now. Bioschock complexity. I'm still hopeful.

 

[tindrli]

and im not

 

[Infinitum]

You know what I'd truly like? To get to play one of these games -during- the shipwide extinction event rather than arriving at the scene an undisclosed amount of time later. Having the layer repeatedly try (and fail miserably) to investigate, eradicate, contain, damage-control or understand whatever the monster of the week is as society and ship systems slowly breaks down around him seems more inherently interesting than the "everyone's dead Dave; now go listen to several dozen audiologs" approach everyone ends up with.

 

[A user named cat]

You know what I'd truly like? To get to play one of these games -during- the shipwide extinction event rather than arriving at the scene an undisclosed amount of time later. Having the layer repeatedly try (and fail miserably) to investigate, eradicate, contain, damage-control or understand whatever the monster of the week is as society and ship systems slowly breaks down around him seems more inherently interesting than the "everyone's dead Dave; now go listen to several dozen audiologs" approach everyone ends up with.

But the audiologs were so damn good in SS2. Just listening to much of the crew becoming part of The Many and sharing their experiences was an absolute thrill, really pulled you in. After a while, I personally wanted to join The Many myself.

 

[Latro]

You know what I'd truly like? To get to play one of these games -during- the shipwide extinction event rather than arriving at the scene an undisclosed amount of time later. Having the layer repeatedly try (and fail miserably) to investigate, eradicate, contain, damage-control or understand whatever the monster of the week is as society and ship systems slowly breaks down around him seems more inherently interesting than the "everyone's dead Dave; now go listen to several dozen audiologs" approach everyone ends up with.

sounds cool, but in practical terms that would mean just a shit ton of scripted scenes

 

[Zombra]

But the audiologs were so damn good in SS2. Just listening to much of the crew becoming part of The Many and sharing their experiences was an absolute thrill, really pulled you in. After a while, I personally wanted to join The Many myself.

They were great in SS2, but Infinitum* is right ... the "empty game filled with only enemies and 2000 convenient audio diaries" has been done to death. There's no good reason for it to set the standard nowadays.

[I'd like] to get to play one of these games -during- the shipwide extinction event rather than arriving at the scene an undisclosed amount of time later. Having the layer repeatedly try (and fail miserably) to investigate, eradicate, contain, damage-control or understand whatever the monster of the week is as society and ship systems slowly breaks down around him seems more inherently interesting than the "everyone's dead Dave; now go listen to several dozen audiologs" approach everyone ends up with.

sounds cool, but in practical terms that would mean just a shit ton of scripted scenes

Strongly disagree. A systemic approach to handling an ongoing disaster in a game of this type would be amazing. Think of Dead Rising for example, but with no safe room, and every survivor with only one hit point instead of laughing off attacks because you're "supposed" to be saving people. Folks would be dying all around you throughout the disaster. We know that Otherside is all about emergence and systems over scripted stuff. Every encounter could start scripted, so we get a little bit of each person's story and role, and then go into survival mode (hint: no one but the player survives very long).

*Fuck, is that an alt? Fuck. And here I am agreeing with him.

 

[A user named cat]

But the audiologs were so damn good in SS2. Just listening to much of the crew becoming part of The Many and sharing their experiences was an absolute thrill, really pulled you in. After a while, I personally wanted to join The Many myself.

They were great in SS2, but Infinitum* is right ... the "empty game filled with only enemies and 2000 convenient audio diaries" has been done to death. There's no good reason for it to set the standard nowadays.

When it's done as well as SS2, I really don't see the problem. Most game mechanics and plot devices have been done to death regardless. I can't think of a single other game that even uses this convention nearly as well or effectively as SS2.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

That's because LGS pioneered it and like a lot if their games, nothing has advanced the genre in many areas. So you have the real deal and then years of knock-offs.

 

[Melan]

It is, unfortunately, also a matter of budget. It is much cheaper to write and record an audiolog than implement scripted or non-scripted action. With Otherside's tight finances, we can expect some kind of innovation, but we can't expect miracles.

 

[LESS T_T]

Heh, OtherSide is one of gaming partners for Google's new Android-based VR platform, Daydream VR.

 

[LESS T_T]

Well, it's an Underworld game: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-vr-action-strategy-game-by-otherside.108877/

 

[LESS T_T]

Spector is full-time Studio Director now.

Wonder how many former-Origin/Looking Glass/Ion Storm Austin/Irrational Games and other immersive sim-ist developers he could bring.

(Especially given that Arcane Austin and Irrational Games both rumored to be making System Shock-like games now.)

 

[Nekot-The-Brave]

I wonder if he's heading the Underworld Overlord project.

 

[Jaesun]

I wonder if he's heading the Underworld Overlord project.

No, he is specifically working on System Shock 3.

 

[Nekot-The-Brave]

I wonder if he's heading the Underworld Overlord project.

No, he is specifically working on System Shock 3.

Okay, I was just wondering because in the OS forums they were saying something about Overlord not taking up too many resources because it was being developed by a different studio/branch, and that only one of the devs was heavily involved in it.

Its our property, which we added team members locally and partnered with another company for some of the heavy lifting. This doesn't effect UA at all other than some advisory stuff. We did bring in one 'inhouse' designer, another old LGS hand to help lead the design, and a producer who is pretty awesome too.

Probably just misread what he meant.

 

[Azazel]

My interest in this game cratered when they brought Spector on board. Fuck that guy.

 

[LESS T_T]

 

[Infinitron]

Is that second one an Invisible War reference or am I overthinking it?