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Vapourware System Shock 3 by OtherSide Entertainment - taken over by Tencent!

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,305
SS2 is not survival horror just because items aren't overly abundant from the outset.
Counter-point: it's very close to survival horror because unless you are a veteran player, it's easy to end up in the situation where you are low on supplies, your weapons are close to breaking down, and the game's foes are searching for you after you made a noise and barking threats
SS2 is an action game through and through and every nook and cranny is filled with cyber modules or other goodies as well as enemies dropping ammo/nanites. A noob might have to sneak around in Cargo Bay but by Hydroponics you should have your shit together. Compare it to a proper survival horror like RE1 Remake for scarcity and you REALLY need to conserve ammo.

It just doesn't work that way unless you wrench every single weaker enemy to death like a pro, completely side-stepping both ammo drain and weapon breakage.
The game isn't really balanced around that playstyle, and seeing noobs adopt it even if they end up reloading often because they need to melee hybrids even with decent ammo stocks is sad.
That said it's obviously not quite RE, but far from an action game like Bioshock.
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
The interview: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/system-shock-3-has-a-clear-vision-playstyle-matter/1100-6470158/

There will be Deus Ex-ish (or SS1-ish) character progression (body mods, "you develop a character is through your inventory"); emphasis on level design in terms of verticality and spatial challenge, and environmental storytelling (a la Bioshock).

System Shock 3 Has A Clear Vision: Playstyle Matters

The original System Shock is one of the early progenitors of what we know now as the immersive sim--games like Dishonored, Prey, and Deus Ex all share similar DNA, and even a few key developers. The original 1994 game and the 1999 sequel, System Shock 2, gave players a terrifying first-person sci-fi adventure that combined RPG elements with the freedom to solve problems and overcome enemies however you saw fit with the tools and abilities given. Development on System Shock 3 is now well underway, and when the first gameplay trailer was revealed recently, it came with a wave of nostalgia and excitement. To see the series live on is one thing, but anticipating a sequel to a beloved game that's 20 years old at this point is another.

One of the original creators of the series (and genre) is at the helm, too: Warren Spector. Best known for leading the charge on the early immersive sims, particularly Deus Ex (2000), he and his team are looking to meet expectations while pushing a fairly niche genre forward. GameSpot producer Mike Mahardy had a chance to catch up with him and talk about the history of the games he's touched, the modern gaming landscape, and how all of that is feeding into his team's work on System Shock 3.

System Shock 3 is still early in development; the recent trailer being pre-alpha footage. OtherSide Entertainment is currently only 14 members deep, including Spector, but the team is looking to expand as development ramps up. OtherSide Entertainment's's first game, Underworld Ascendant, may not have gone the way they'd hoped, but it seems that Spector and company are aware of what needs to be done to make a worthy successor for System Shock.

The following interview has been edited for clarity and readability.

GameSpot: You were there with the early immersive sims and wrote a few Ultima games, then with Epic Mickey you were trying to go in that vein with a Disney property. But what's that pressure like now? Do you feel any pressure to hold up this legacy of these early iconic PC role-playing games?

Warren Spector: I feel more pressure on this project than I think I have on any other. Even working with Mickey Mouse, I knew we could do the job, and I knew we had the budget and the team to live up to people's expectations. Here, we really are in this sort of "AA" space, not the AAA space. Paul Neurath, my partner, and I made a conscious decision that we'd already been down that road of AAA, many times and wanted to do something smaller. But I think the AAA expectations are still there.

And so I think if you ask my team, I think you'd hear that I'm pushing them pretty hard for AAA quality at the AA price tag. There are expectations with the scope of the game and the legacy of the original games. So yeah, there's some pressure. You bet.

Before we dig more into System Shock, what's your take on the current state of immersive sims, which I know is now a nebulous term. Working on the sequel to one of the more iconic immersive sims ever, what's your take on other studios that are making similar games in the modern space?

Certainly, you have to talk about Arkane [Studios]. Prey was a little System Shock-y, you could say. But all the games that team does are in the immersive-sim vein. With guys like Harvey Smith and Ricardo Bare and some other folks who've been there, Steve Powers and Mani Martinez and others, they're steeped in the history and have contributed to the genre. So no surprise there. The Hitman games; they're doing some of that, [letting you] solve problems the way you want and really be immersed in the world with all the other aspects of immersive sims people have come to expect.

A lot of people talk to me about the Bethesda games, which I kind of think of as kissing cousins! Not really in the same vein, but they're trying to simulate so much in worlds that are so big. I think what other immersive sims try to do is immerse you in a smaller world that's more deeply simulated. So they're similar but a little different. The coolest thing though recently was seeing Zelda: Breath Of The Wild actually incorporate some elements that I would say are immersive sim-like. I would never ever say there was any influence there, but it's cool to see people coming around to that sort of thing. Those are the ones that come to mind most for me right now.

Yeah, I think just two weeks ago in Zelda, someone figured out a new way you could mess with the physics in order to make that motorbike you can get like electric powered. It's fascinating.

Yeah, it's all about players picking a playstyle. I don't know if we've ever talked about it, but years ago, probably 15 years ago, I wrote up a manifesto and the first draft was 12 pages and no one would read it cause developers don't like to read I guess! And I did an eight-page version, and a four-page version. Anyway, to make a long story short, I eventually got it down to two words: "Playstyle matters." That is the most succinct version of what I like my games to be about and what I like other people's games to be about too. Just letting players decide how to interact with the world, not forcing them to interact with the world the way I want them to. And certainly the Zelda: Breath Of The Wild team accomplished that as well as anybody ever has.

I think we were at Arkane a month before Prey released, and on the wall, they have a sort of list of rules for making the game. I think it's 11 things and one of them was "ladders suck in games." It was funny seeing those, they use those rules in their games for the most part. Obviously, in Dishonored you don't need them because you can just teleport. But I'm reminded of that.

I did this on Deus Ex for the first time. I put together a list of commandments and I had--hey go figure--10 commandments and Harvey Smith added the adenda. I still use those basically unchanged...well that's not true! I changed them up a little bit based on the content, setting, and the specific genre. I put up little posters all over the office that probably drive people crazy. They're kind of like the motivational posters that everybody hates, but one of them says "Playstyle Matters." One of them says "Never judge your player." We never say "this is the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do."

Have you ever broken any of them?

Oh, constantly. Reality catches up with any kind of documentation very quickly in this business. You have to draw a line through some of them, when you can't live up to them, but sure, you never live up to all of them. They're aspirational more than anything else. If you aim for the moon, you might fall short, but at least you tried, right? Every game should do things that no one's ever done before.

If you know how to do it in advance, it's probably not worth doing or you're not trying hard enough. So you're always going to fall short. I hate everything I've ever done! I mean, if you're ever satisfied, you might as well hang it up. All I see is the flaws or what could have been!
When you say that every game should do something that other games haven't done before, can you talk about anything System Shock 3 is doing that you might consider that?

Sure, in about nine months! It's a little too early, but I will tell you that we have two things that I think are really going to set the game apart. I really hate to be coy, but I'm not ready to talk about them because they may not work in the way you want. You fall short a lot of the time, but we're trying two things. They're both kind of similar to what other people have done, but we're taking them much further and in some interesting directions. Next time we talk, we'll have lots of interesting things to talk about.

It seems like a unique situation to me that you're making the sequel to one of the games that established the genre. Where do you see System Shock 3 fitting into the modern immersive sim landscape?

Well, the simple answer is that it has to. I know that doesn't answer your question, but in terms of level design, depth of simulation, and storytelling technique, there's been so much advancement that we need to at least keep up. Early on we put together a list of things we were going to do to match the state of the art. And then we have a couple ways in which we want to push things further. Given the whole "playstyle matters" approach, I'll give you a couple of hints.

It's not like we're going to take first-person combat places that it's never been before. But there are some ways in which we need to push further; level design. In particular, the interconnectedness and the three-dimensionality of levels nowadays has changed. Games like Bioshock, which is again not exactly an immersive sim in my mind, but clearly a cousin, took environmental storytelling to a whole new level. You walked into a room and you know the room's purpose. You see writing on the wall and it advances the narrative.

There've been so many advances that we need to keep up with and we're going to do that, and then innovate in a couple of other areas where creativity and design coincide, and actually count for as much or more than budget and team size.

You mentioned level design. Can you expand more on what you mean by the interconnectedness of level design nowadays? Is that a result of having better technology than before or is it just how people think about level design differently?

I think it's more about how people think. In the first System Shock, if you look at the levels, they were huge, which encouraged exploration, but they were full of dead ends. There was virtually no verticality to it, which was ironic because it was one of the first games where you could look up and down. And yet we never really took advantage of that in any great way. One of the hallmarks of immersive sims has been that they're paced a little different. We don't force you to play the way we want, and you can go running and gunning through the typical immersive sim. But we don't force you to do that.

I think the way most people play is by seeing or hearing a challenge, noticing there's something around the corner and lean around the corner and see what it is without exposing themselves. Or by hearing a distinctive sound of a 'cortex reaver' and then stop or slow down. Then make a plan to deal with that challenge using my capabilities, both as a player and as a character with a build-out, the things I'm carrying with me, my tools. And then it's go, go, go, see the consequence of the execution of that plan and then see another challenge, make a plan, execute.

It's almost this kind of staccato rhythm, but that requires a specific kind of level design, right? To put it simply, you have to give them those corners and hiding spots where they can detect that next challenge and make a plan. Then you have to give them the tools, which is really level design-related. And we have to use lighting effectively, and use sound effectively in ways that we never did before. In System Shock, you could say [those elements] were there, but it was so primitive. Now people expect much more.

Some people today playing games may not have heard about or even played early System Shock games. Are you leaning more into bringing in a bigger audience? Especially now that the lines between console players and PC players are more blurred than they used to be. Are you trying to cater to both crowds?

Absolutely. We've been pitching the game for a while now to a variety of potential partners and the first slide in my deck is honoring VIP. SHODAN is so well loved by a surprisingly large fan base. We have a fairly large mailing list I've heard from fans over the years. Another company, Night Dive, released the original games a few years ago and they sold incredibly well. We know there's a fan base out there and we don't want to let those folks down. But we also know we need to grow the audience.

I don't remember the exact budget for the first System Shock game, but I guarantee you it was in the six figures. And now you've just got to sell to a larger audience. What qualified as a hit back then qualifies as a dismal failure now. So we have to grow the audience and it's a delicate balancing act. I feel like a gymnast on a balance beam, but we're confident we can do it and time will tell.

We're certainly building in little elements from the earlier games while not insisting that new players have any understanding of them because, as you say, the vast majority of gamers have not played those earlier games. And in a way I'm kind of glad. I replayed System Shock 1 not too long ago and was reminded, what were we thinking? I mean, we thought it was a good idea to use every key on the keyboard, it's insane! If you look at like the first screen that comes up, you can't even see the scene because all of the commands are up there in little boxes and it just covers the screen.

We're trying to cater to both crowds and I think even the existing fans will appreciate a better UI and user experience. I think everybody will appreciate that. And as you say, the console and PC audience, they're kind of the same audience now. So we've got to have controls that will work on controllers, all that stuff that's required in a modern game.

Another thing that has definitely changed in the last few decades is progression mechanics, which are in every single genre. And I feel like the vast majority of AAA games that come out today, even indie games have some sort of skill tree or progression mechanics. What's your take on that? How are you thinking about that in the actual progression mechanics in System Shock 3?

I don't want to say I'm not a fan. There are a lot of games where that kind of progression you're talking about make sense, skill trees and there are still people who think character classes are a great idea. Again, one of the hallmarks of the immersive sim is it's about you in the world. You the player, not your little 64-pixel-tall avatar or whatever. It's about you making the decisions that you feel are appropriate to the situation. So the most important thing to me is each player's individual playstyle driving the experience. Having said that, we do have, just like we had an in Deus Ex and in other games, body augmentation and fighting modifications.

That was part of the first System Shock. We're going to give you a bunch of body mods and you can only install a handful of them. So there will be some augmentation and character modification. But what we want is for that to be in the service of your playstyle. Hypothetically, if you're a character that likes to sneak around and avoid combat, a cloaking device might be a useful tool for you. So everything is about supporting your playstyle.

In this game, and in other games like it, you develop a character is through your inventory. You're going to be acquiring things throughout the game. The tools you create will allow you to interact with our world simulation and our enemies in unique ways that, again, serve your playstyle.

So, I take it you don't think character classes fit into that?

I don't understand why video game developers use character classes. I guess it's simple for people to understand "I'm a fighter, I'm a healer, I'm a mage." It's probably sensible and there's a reason why I'm kind of the "King of the Cult Classics," and haven't sold 100 million copies of a game ever. But character classes and all those secret di roles were the best simulation tools that Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson had at their disposal when they created this whole role-playing thing. And we have better tools now. I don't get it. As a player, sure, I'll play a game that has character classes, but I'm not a huge fan.

Not to seem reductive, it seems like there are two sides to this for you. One side where you're making a modern game trying to live up to the standards of this legacy. But on the other side it seems like it might be a nostalgia trip, especially with the 25 year anniversary of System Shock.

Yeah, it is definitely both. There is a feeling of nostalgia for sure. And that's part of where the pressure comes from. But it actually blows my mind that anybody cares about the 25-year-old game. For years, I wanted to replay it. We did so many crazy things back in the early PC days, I couldn't even get it running. And I asked some of the programmers who worked on it, "Hey, can you get this running so I can play it again?" And they were going, "No way man, I'm not even going to try." So bless Night Dive for getting it running.

Like with Deus Ex, I think I got more requests for interviews and more fan mail for Dues Ex on its 15th anniversary than I did when the game came out. It's kind of the same thing with System Shock. How many 25 year old games do people still care about? You could probably count on the fingers of one hand. So yeah, there's definitely a feeling of nostalgia about it.

It's crazy going back to that world; there are things about it and the narratives in both System Shock 1 and 2 that were either unanswered or, in retrospect, didn't make a lot of sense. It's nice being able to go back and fill in some of those gaps and answer some of the unanswered questions, and occasionally retcon some of the gaping holes and silliness of those earlier games.

On a more personal note, is this the closest you've been to actual development since Epic Mickey 2? You were at the University of Texas, Austin and still worked with games, but is this the first one you're hands-on with again?

Yeah, this is it. Epic Mickey: The Power of Two came out in 2013 and just to be frank, Disney shutting down Junction Point [Studios] as part of their larger "we don't want to do development anymore" effort, it was pretty devastating. I sat on a couch with a remote control staring at a television for about nine months. So there was that period of mourning.

Then I always thought I would end up teaching at some point. I was working on my doctorate and dropped out of the Ph.D program to make games. And it was a great experience helping to build a video game development program at the University of Texas but about halfway through I realized that there were still games I wanted to make. I'm going to date myself here but there was no box, real or digital, at the end of it. No product. And I missed that. Molding young minds was great, but there were still things to make. So, Paul Neurath asked if I wanted to join him in doing this startup and I just said, yeah. I did three years of teaching and got back into game development.

You're working with Paul Neurath again, and you two go very far back. What's that like?

It's funny, we're both control freaks. So, we had some pretty good knockdown-drag-outs, but we're really good friends and so we always end up in a good place and the right place for whatever game we're working on. Paul has a wealth of knowledge about immersive sims. He was the founder of Blue Sky, which became Looking Glass and knows this kind of game as well as anybody. He plays all of our builds and writes up pages of notes. I mean, I do that for my team too, But if Paul's sending [notes in], they're always right on the money. He's a smart guy. So it's been a good experience. It's always good to work with friends.

We've kind of been talking about it on and off, but why do you think System Shock resonates so much? Why is it one of those games you can count on one hand?

I think partly it was ahead of its time. We had a saying at Origin, which kind of leaked over to Looking Glass, where we didn't want to make the best game that ran on the current hardware. We used to say the best game that ran on a 386--talk about dating somebody--we wanted to make the best game and eventually the hardware would catch up with us. And so System Shock, it stressed out the hardware pretty good.

From a design standpoint it really did point in a new direction. The earlier days at Origin, and the Ultima games were kind of hinting at what became immersive sims, and the original Underworld hinted at what these games could be. But System Shock was the first one where you could really say, "Yeah, I'm in that world. I believe it. There's nothing that drags me out of the experience and I really can explore this world that feels not real, but believable."

Then there's SHODAN. I mean SHODAN was such an amazing character and Terri Brosius did such an amazing job of voice acting, and Greg LoPiccolo and Eric Burgess did such an amazing job of making her sound strange and scary. I think that was a large part of it. And then you have to give credit, not just to the team as a whole, which bought into the vision, but Doug Church, one of the unsung heroes of video games. His vision was so clear that everybody was kind of swept along, including me. I think one of the things that's required to make a memorable game is to have a clear vision. Doug did and I supported it, and I helped him wherever I could and the end result was something that was pretty memorable and ahead of its time.
 
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ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,305
If he considers a corridor shooter as a good example of environmental storytelling then he is fucked.
Probably just lip service, System Shock 2 already had 100% of the environmental storytelling of Bioshock, and Half-Life 1 had 90% of it. But people don't associate those games with muh environmental storytelling anywhere near as much as Bioshock, so it's just not neurotypical to mention them.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
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May 29, 2010
Messages
35,835
SS2 is an action game through and through and every nook and cranny is filled with cyber modules or other goodies as well as enemies dropping ammo/nanites. A noob might have to sneak around in Cargo Bay but by Hydroponics you should have your shit together. Compare it to a proper survival horror like RE1 Remake for scarcity and you REALLY need to conserve ammo.

Modify the difficulty to make it harder.
 

Maggot

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 31, 2016
Messages
1,243
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
SS2 is an action game through and through and every nook and cranny is filled with cyber modules or other goodies as well as enemies dropping ammo/nanites. A noob might have to sneak around in Cargo Bay but by Hydroponics you should have your shit together. Compare it to a proper survival horror like RE1 Remake for scarcity and you REALLY need to conserve ammo.

Modify the difficulty to make it harder.
Even on Impossible difficulty without Standard weapons I was rolling in hypos by the end and killed Shodan without hacking any of the terminals.
 
Joined
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Codex Year of the Donut

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Another interview: https://www.escapistmagazine.com/v2...spector-paul-neurath-otherside-entertainment/

Nothing particularity new. (UA fans will have fun reading answers about it.) Also that Ryan Lesser is art director on SS3 is probably an error from the writer.

Warren Spector and Paul Neurath Discuss Modernizing System Shock While Honoring the IP

At the end of the ’90s, Y2K panic gripped the world. Fearmongers and tech-illiterates convinced people that computer networks were going to freak out, crash and end civilization when the calendar flipped from ’99 to ’00. The most enduring pop culture of that era reflected this paranoid technophobia. Office Space satirized it, The Matrix rode it to total cultural dominance, and System Shock 2 gave it a face with SHODAN. Reappearing after her apparent destruction in 1994’s System Shock, SHODAN was the ultimate 1999 villain: a faulty computer program that turned on and slaughtered its creators.

Y2K fever was a long time ago, but today online disinformation campaigns are tipping the scales of elections, extremist groups are turning YouTube into a radicalization pipeline, and mass murders are being livestreamed on social media. Tech anxiety is at an all-time high. Not coincidentally, SHODAN is back.

Paul Neurath, the co-founder of System Shock and System Shock 2 studio Looking Glass, and System Shock producer Warren Spector think the current media landscape makes it the perfect time for another story about the malevolent artificial intelligence they first unleashed 25 years ago. They’re working together at Neurath’s new studio, OtherSide Entertainment, to bring their technophobic nightmare to a new generation.

“I’ve always said trying to convince people to be interested in something is a losing proposition, so I always look for things that people are already interested in,” said Spector, who is serving as creative director on the upcoming System Shock 3. “AI is very much on people’s minds. What role is it going to play in our future? Is it a boon to mankind or a danger? People are asking those questions now, and I think it’s important that games deal with those issues.”

“Today AI is much more present in all of our lives,” agreed Neurath. “It’s on our smart phones, figuring out what we’re thinking, trying to predict our behavior, and doing an astonishingly good job at it in a lot of cases. So maybe the fact that we took a two decade hiatus for System Shock 3 is… yeah, the timing worked.”

In my talons, I shape clay
There may not have been an official System Shock title in 20 years, but the series sent shockwaves through the games industry that are still being felt today. Ken Levine’s BioShock and the 2017 reboot of Prey were both direct homages to the series, and EA’s sci-fi horror game Dead Space began production as a System Shock sequel. The series’ John Carpenter-in-space aesthetic has informed everything from Doom 3 to Alien: Isolation, and the immersive sim genre it helped codify has been explored by games as disparate as Dishonored and Gone Home.

Coming back to a series that was so formative for the entire medium has the usually unflappable Spector feeling a little nervous.

“My usual answer when I’m asked about pressure is, ‘No, I’m not really feeling a lot of pressure.’ Even working with Mickey Mouse a few years ago (on Epic Mickey), I didn’t feel much pressure. But this time I really do,” he said. “We’re making a game that has to live up to people’s memories of these games, not the reality. They were great games — there’s no question. But people have embellished them in their minds to the point where it’s a little scary.”

OtherSide wants to retain the original games’ core identities but filter them through modern conveniences and sensibilities. Spector concedes that the series needs to be updated to appeal to modern audiences, but he’s still taking inspiration primarily from the incredibly dense original System Shock.

“The most important thing to me is the pacing,” he said. “It’s not just a straightforward shooter pacing where you run and gun, and move forward like a shark, and inevitably succeed if you keep saving all the time. What System Shock had was pacing more along the lines of stop, see a challenge, or hear a challenge, make a plan, and then execute that plan.”

Neurath remembers the original System Shock‘s impenetrable control scheme with some fondness. “The team would brag that we used every key on the keyboard,” he reminisced. But he thinks the series can be made less convoluted without sacrificing any of its complexity.

“There’s a difference between making the user interface more accessible and lowering the learning curve,” he said. “We never want to dumb down our games. We want to make them challenging. We want to make you really have to think about what you’re doing.”

Your flesh is an insult to the perfection of the digital
The simulation-level difficulty of the original titles may be getting scaled back, but the team is balancing that out by bringing in more survival horror elements.

“One of our litmus tests for success, which we learned from System Shock 2, is we would get fans telling us they could not play the game at night, or in the dark,” Neurath said. “It was too scary. We’re hoping for the same on System Shock 3.”

The game’s pre-alpha gameplay teaser certainly backs up their claims. The footage features the return of several classic System Shock nasties and prominently features a human body being dissolved in acid. Cortex Reavers, the half-machine, half-screaming dismembered corpse enemies from the original System Shock are back and they’ve grown much more grotesque after two decades of advances in rendering technology.

Spector said System Shock concept artist Robb Waters was disappointed that the Cortex Reavers’ design had to be compromised to work within the original game’s primitive graphics engine. Now Waters is returning for both System Shock 3 and Nightdive Studios’ System Shock remake, and his original vision is finally being achieved. He’s not the only key member of the System Shock family to be back in action.

Spector and Neurath promise that several familiar names are either working on the new title directly or have been consulted about the return of the series, including designers Tim Stellmach and Austin Grossman and director Doug Church. Voice actor Terri Brosius will return as SHODAN with the help of Greg LoPiccolo and Eric Brosius, who did her voice modulation and modifications. Ryan Lesser, who gave SHODAN her iconic gray-and-green sequel makeover, is also serving as an art director on the project.

Not bad… for a pathetic insect
The return of so many original team members will certainly help Spector and Neurath keep their promise to stay in touch with their old school bona fides. System Shock 3 will be Neurath’s second project in a row drawn from his ’90s roots, the first being last year’s troubled Underworld Ascendant. An attempted return to the world of 1992’s Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss, Ascendant was riddled with bugs, lacked polish, and struck several reviewers as blatantly unfinished. Neurath described the project as one of the most challenging of his 30-year career.

“We all make mistakes, and one hopes you learn from those mistakes,” Neurath said. One lesson he said the team learned was that fans expect a certain amount of reverence when beloved IPs are restored to life. The team is actively listening to fan desires and expectations, while being careful not to let the project descend into design by committee. “There are people who want this element of the first game, or they want that element of the second game,” Spector said. “We have to be careful not to let the audience design the game, but to be aware of what they expect, and hopefully live up to those expectations.”

“We’ll be listening a lot more carefully, and just honoring the IP,” said Neurath. “That’s one of our design pillars, in fact, honoring the IP.”

You travel within the glory of my memories, insect
Honoring System Shock 3 doesn’t just mean creating a respectful mechanical followup to the ’90s originals. For Spector especially, it means insightfully revisiting the themes he’s spent his entire career fixating on. “People who create things tend to tell the same stories over and over again, because they’re embedded in our brains,” he explained. “It’s hard for me to imagine making a game that isn’t about what it means to be human. It’s just the theme I enjoy coming back to.”

“In a game like this you can test boundaries by having creatures and characters that are hybrids between machines and humans, or AIs and human intelligence,” Neurath continued. “You can play those what-ifs and see the outcomes. And players directly participate in that. They’re not reading about it or watching a movie — they’re experiencing it. To me that’s fascinating.”

As for the moment-to-moment gameplay, Spector promised that he and Neurath fully intend to return to the genre they helped pioneer with titles like Ultima Underworld, Thief, and Deus Ex. “Of course it’s going to be an immersive sim,” he said. The team intends for System Shock 3 to inherit many of the features of the first two games including a voiceless protagonist and the possibility of dealing with enemy encounters in numerous violent and non-violent ways. “I can’t speak for anybody else, but I personally have no interest in making any other kind of game,” Spector said. “I guess actually that’s not true. I would love to make a basketball game some day.”

“What about an immersive sim basketball game?” Neurath suggested.

“Yeah, let me think about that! That might work!”

System Shock 3 does not have an announced release date or platforms yet.
 

HoboForEternity

sunset tequila
Patron
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Messages
9,211
Location
Disco Elysium
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Don't you dare touch Thief. Go away. Shoo.
Killer Queen Decline already touched that game!!

thief-4-10.jpg
 

Max Heap

Arcane
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
617
No matter how this will turn out, considering the UA thread, SS3 will provide a ton of entertainment, one way or the other.

I just hope it will run at an acceptable framerate at release.
It probably won't :negative:


The thing is: If they fuck this one up, it's finally over for them. Not even talking finances here, but from a marketing perspective. Nobody gave a rat's ass about UA (Codex was literally one of the very few places that even had a discussion thread on it). So they could probably dive under any wave of negative PR that hits them, once people on the SS3 forums start pointing out Othersides connection to UA. UA's community was just too small to really make a difference there.

But System Shock is different. It's fan crowd is way larger. I think if you piss those guys off, you won't get away that easily.
 
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Glic2000

Educated
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
80
So people said the SS3 team was "totally different" from the team that worked on UA. Except, Paul Neurath, Tim Stellmach and (sort of) Warren Spector apparently worked on both games.
 

Max Heap

Arcane
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
617
So people said the SS3 team was "totally different" from the team that worked on UA. Except, Paul Neurath, Tim Stellmach and (sort of) Warren Spector apparently worked on both games.

In their "defense", they practically vanished from the project after the first few kickstarter videos.
Not to say this can't happen again, but Spector seems more at the core of the project with this one though.
 

Nifft Batuff

Prophet
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
3,209
So people said the SS3 team was "totally different" from the team that worked on UA. Except, Paul Neurath, Tim Stellmach and (sort of) Warren Spector apparently worked on both games.

In their "defense", they practically vanished from the project after the first few kickstarter videos.
Not to say this can't happen again, but Spector seems more at the core of the project with this one though.
Still, Spector is not any added value to the project. Remember that it is was involved in Deus eX Infinity War too. I remember the interviews that he made at the time, he was saying basically the same things he is saying now. He said that he was "modernizing" the "old" DX, that in is opinion was completely outdated. Then DX-IW was the result.
 

Nano

Arcane
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Messages
4,650
Grab the Codex by the pussy Strap Yourselves In
“We all make mistakes, and one hopes you learn from those mistakes,” Neurath said. One lesson he said the team learned was that fans expect a certain amount of reverence when beloved IPs are restored to life. The team is actively listening to fan desires and expectations, while being careful not to let the project descend into design by committee. “There are people who want this element of the first game, or they want that element of the second game,” Spector said. “We have to be careful not to let the audience design the game, but to be aware of what they expect, and hopefully live up to those expectations.”

“We’ll be listening a lot more carefully, and just honoring the IP,” said Neurath. “That’s one of our design pillars, in fact, honoring the IP.”

This is infuriating. They pissed all over Ultima Underworld's legacy and all they have to say is "lol yeah we messed up but we'll do better this time". For the love of God go bankrupt already.
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Unity Spotlight developer explains a tool they made for this game:



Obviously the talk is mostly technical and not about SS3 itself, but there are some interesting things.
  • (1:49) He explains how Unity Spotlight teams support selected game developers including Otherside Austin (for free), and what they've been doing for SS3 (the first game that used HDRP, the rendering feature that was shown at GDC; deferred decals; sector and portal culling, system for render only what are necessary; cross scene reference system, which is the subject of this talk). They've been working with Otherside for a couple of years, and he says SS3 "helped Unity move forward in a lot of ways".
  • (7:21) Part of title screen for Gamescom demo, that probably was shown to potential publishers and investors. The demo was set in Hangar level. Some scene references there. (TramPlatforms, TramTunnel, HallSecurityCheckpoint, SHODANReveal, HallLobbyToSecurity, Lobby)
  • (8:04) Glimpse of some scenery, probably outside of the station or something.
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Sam shares her experience of playing SS3 on Discord:

I rather enjoy the SS3 soundtrack, from the audio i've heard so far. The title music (which i'm not sure is public yet...) feels like a "new" version of System Shock to me, at least, while building on the old motif

At the end of the day, the audio is only as good as the mixing that's done with it, of course!

I don't know yet if there are difficulty settings planned, but you can most likely expect that the "default" experience will be pretty challenging for players expecting to be able to run in and bash everything. I don't think I have ever won a head-on combat situation with just a bludgeoning object.

Every little advantage you can get will count. ie, getting the drop on enemies, freezing them, burning them, momentarily paralyzing them, sometimes just running away

I have definitely run away in creative (and desperate) ways while plotting out how I need to progress from there

health sponge as in, they have more health than usual but aren't very smart?

I'd say a part of the real danger is, yes, they are tankier than you, but more often than not (especially in the beginning when you're working with whatever you can find), you just want to avoid combat unless you're ready for it

For anyone still dissecting the teaser, I suppose I can emphasize that affecting enemies in ANY way you can will make a life or death difference. Those extra seconds that a mutant is stunned while you squeeze past them can allow you to lock them out of an area, for example. Or if you freeze them, it's much easier to break them apart with a melee weapon.

tldr; experimenting with survival tactics, figuring out the weaknesses of the creatures crawling around, and eventually becoming experienced will grow alongside your options

I hesitate to say that you NEED to experiment to survive. I think someone could get by without killing almost anything and avoiding nearly all encounters, but it would mean you would need to be a pretty cautious player who has a strong idea of the environment layout.

So it's more like... SS3 is designed so that your playstyle should be flexible to survive. But if you're deadset on playing a certain way, you can do it, with some more informed knowledge of the area, monsters and events that may happen
 

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