Tales of Maj'Eyal

[Sykar]

In the sense of that I do not get a quest leading me on to other quests. My journal is just the quest I finished on Rel island and nothing else. Guess you are supposed to go through that halfling complex instead of just recalling out.

 

[Lacrymas]

You can't kill subject z or whatever letter he was with the vast majority of classes, perhaps even all of them. Recalling out was the intended way to go. You just then go to whatever dungeon you want and the journal will update at one point.

 

[TwoEdge]

Yep, just go do the T1 dungeons and come back afterwards.

 

[xuerebx]

So I found this perfect game for my current needs (no time to play, and since I'm crap I die easily and start over in a 2 hour gaming burst). Got as far as level 14, my favourite (and strongest) character is an archer. I find that I can clear the first 2 levels of a dungeon, but then in the 3rd level there's a boss (and sometimes minions) who are too hard for my character. I leave and try a new dungeon but same thing happens (I can think of the slaver compound as an example).

Anyway, any quick general tips? And other than an archer, is there another character which makes the game easier? I think it would have to be a long-range character like an archer.

 

[lukaszek]

Anyway, any quick general tips? And other than an archer, is there another character which makes the game easier? I think it would have to be a long-range character like an archer.

i think its better to larp and just find out which class you enjoy playing most. For me it was rogue. Even single class can offer many play styles.
My tip would be to raid shops for tier 3 weapon early, even before doing your first location.

In general, here is progression order:
https://te4.org/wiki/Recommended_Zone_Order_Progression

 

[Serus]

So I found this perfect game for my current needs (no time to play, and since I'm crap I die easily and start over in a 2 hour gaming burst). Got as far as level 14, my favourite (and strongest) character is an archer. I find that I can clear the first 2 levels of a dungeon, but then in the 3rd level there's a boss (and sometimes minions) who are too hard for my character. I leave and try a new dungeon but same thing happens (I can think of the slaver compound as an example).

Anyway, any quick general tips? And other than an archer, is there another character which makes the game easier? I think it would have to be a long-range character like an archer.

As lukaszek said. The zone order progression is important. Of curse you can find it yourself but it will be painful and require additional games. What i can propose is this: did you consider using the game mode that gives you more than one life? It still requires playing carefully because number of lives is limited and still gives the perma-death/roguelike vibe but allows to get somewhere in the game without constant restarting. Also, iirc, allows additional classes and races unlocks. Change to normal roguelike mode later as you get more experience with the game.
As to classes - i can't help, i haven't played for a very long time and they probably went through some major balance changes, possibly more than once.

 

[Lacrymas]

Anyway, any quick general tips? And other than an archer, is there another character which makes the game easier? I think it would have to be a long-range character like an archer.

Make sure to do all T1 dungeons even if they are optional (the Heart of the Gloom is the hardest of all of them and I always do it last), this becomes even more crucial on higher difficulties. Technically, everything outside the Master is optional, so they being optional shouldn't phase you at all. Run away if things get hairy and always think about ways to get out of any situation. Vaults (the game always asks you if you want to open their doors, so there is no confusion what a vault is) are dangerous and always higher level than the dungeon they are in, so I'd skip them for now until you get more experience. Don't forget to pick up your free general points from the arena in the halfling town. While you are in the halfling town, check the accessories vendor to see whether he sells a +Health and +Healing received lantern, that's the best you can do for almost any class this early in the game (the one exception I can think of right now is the Necromancer). Try out different builds to see what works for you if you don't want to look up ready-made builds on the ToME forums. I usually concoct my own builds when I first start playing a new class and only look up builds if I keep struggling to beat the game with them. The easiest character to play by far is the Summoner imo, but Alchemist is up there as well.

 

[xuerebx]

Anyway, any quick general tips? And other than an archer, is there another character which makes the game easier? I think it would have to be a long-range character like an archer.

i think its better to larp and just find out which class you enjoy playing most. For me it was rogue. Even single class can offer many play styles.
My tip would be to raid shops for tier 3 weapon early, even before doing your first location.

In general, here is progression order:
https://te4.org/wiki/Recommended_Zone_Order_Progression

Thanks for the order progression guide! I went into Tier 2 areas at level 14 so maybe that's why I got pulverised.

So I found this perfect game for my current needs (no time to play, and since I'm crap I die easily and start over in a 2 hour gaming burst). Got as far as level 14, my favourite (and strongest) character is an archer. I find that I can clear the first 2 levels of a dungeon, but then in the 3rd level there's a boss (and sometimes minions) who are too hard for my character. I leave and try a new dungeon but same thing happens (I can think of the slaver compound as an example).

Anyway, any quick general tips? And other than an archer, is there another character which makes the game easier? I think it would have to be a long-range character like an archer.

As lukaszek said. The zone order progression is important. Of curse you can find it yourself but it will be painful and require additional games. What i can propose is this: did you consider using the game mode that gives you more than one life? It still requires playing carefully because number of lives is limited and still gives the perma-death/roguelike vibe but allows to get somewhere in the game without constant restarting. Also, iirc, allows additional classes and races unlocks. Change to normal roguelike mode later as you get more experience with the game.
As to classes - i can't help, i haven't played for a very long time and they probably went through some major balance changes, possibly more than once.

Anyway, any quick general tips? And other than an archer, is there another character which makes the game easier? I think it would have to be a long-range character like an archer.

Make sure to do all T1 dungeons even if they are optional (the Heart of the Gloom is the hardest of all of them and I always do it last), this becomes even more crucial on higher difficulties. Technically, everything outside the Master is optional, so they being optional shouldn't phase you at all. Run away if things get hairy and always think about ways to get out of any situation. Vaults (the game always asks you if you want to open their doors, so there is no confusion what a vault is) are dangerous and always higher level than the dungeon they are in, so I'd skip them for now until you get more experience. Don't forget to pick up your free general points from the arena in the halfling town. While you are in the halfling town, check the accessories vendor to see whether he sells a +Health and +Healing received lantern, that's the best you can do for almost any class this early in the game (the one exception I can think of right now is the Necromancer). Try out different builds to see what works for you if you don't want to look up ready-made builds on the ToME forums. I usually concoct my own builds when I first start playing a new class and only look up builds if I keep struggling to beat the game with them. The easiest character to play by far is the Summoner imo, but Alchemist is up there as well.

Thanks for your input! I am using the mode where you get a few lives. I don't like using ready-made build guides that's why I asked for pointers, but I now had a cursory view of the wiki to understand the game mechanics more.

I might have a few more questions later on.

 

[lukaszek]

I might have a few more questions later on.

fyi there is a mod which allows you to pick esscort quests.

You will die way less once you get a bunch of escape skills. Watch out for those on items/your class. Esscorts might have some too, cant remember

 

[Serus]

Anyway, any quick general tips? And other than an archer, is there another character which makes the game easier? I think it would have to be a long-range character like an archer.

Run away if things get hairy and always think about ways to get out of any situation.

That's just any and every(?) rogulike basics you need to learn. I'd add - run away even BEFORE things get hairy - as soon as you see that they can get potentially dangerous, not when they already did.

 

[Lacrymas]

Anyway, any quick general tips? And other than an archer, is there another character which makes the game easier? I think it would have to be a long-range character like an archer.

Run away if things get hairy and always think about ways to get out of any situation.

That's just any and every(?) rogulike basics you need to learn. I'd add - run away even BEFORE things get hairy - as soon as you see that they can get potentially dangerous, not when they already did.

Of course, but you can't intuit a coming bad situation before you have at least some experience with roguelikes ;d Some common bad situations in ToME - thinking you are safe and getting cornered with no way out, not checking randbosses' classes for particularly nasty class combinations, overestimating the power of your character and willfully going into unknown zones (the forbidden tomes are a highlight), not paying attention to your debuffs and getting bogged down by them (especially those that increase the cooldown of your abilities).

 

[Dhaze]

And other than an archer, is there another character which makes the game easier? I think it would have to be a long-range character like an archer.

I always like to nudge new players towards a Dwarf Berzerker. If ever you're inclined to try it, you'll likely find it's a no-nonsense, relatively straightforward type of character with remarkable survivability.

Aside from that I'll re-emphasise what others have already noted: familiarising yourself with the intended progression order for dungeons will probably save you quite a bit of frustration. But keep in mind that some dungeons can be notably more difficult than others within the same tier (or indeed outright painful depending on your build), so don't be surprised when you stab your foot onto the occasionnal difficulty spike here and there.

Also, don't be disheartened when you very suddenly die then look at your screen, mouth slightly ajar and brow furrowed, thinking, "What happened? It was going so well!" I find that, some way into the game, ToME has a way of lulling you into a false sense of security; then you don't pay attention to a particular random boss who can wipe the floor with you in about three turns.

 

[Haba]

Also, don't be disheartened when you very suddenly die then look at your screen, mouth slightly ajar and brow furrowed, thinking, "What happened? It was going so well!" I find that, some way into the game, ToME has a way of lulling you into a false sense of security; then you don't pay attention to a particular random boss who can wipe the floor with you in about three turns.

The problem with TOME is that it is crazy big game. Some of the maps get boring. But even the most boring map can spawn a boss that can and will one-shot your character, no matter how powerful you are.

Winning in TOME is not just about getting lucky, it is also about endurance.

 

[Lacrymas]

ToME is one of the least luck-based roguelikes imo. The biggest luck factor begins and ends with what random bosses you will get, and iirc that was reined in a while ago by making sure no randboss can spawn with a combination that makes them immortal.

 

[Serus]

RLs, in general, aren't really luck based but are skill based. This is a common misconception - one that I shared with others for a very long time. Yes, you heard me - not luck based. At least most of the well designed ones aren't. If that wasn't the case no one could win a given RL on regular basis because luck is never constant. And there are definitely people who can do it with some RLs. And on the other hand, you would have noobs beating every RL. Which doesn't happen. It is about playing consistently and safely. Just like sex, i suppose.

 

[Lacrymas]

Stone Soup is very luck-based and one of the reasons why I don't play it. There is literally a god of random that can and will teleport you to the orb while you are still on the first floor of the dungeon. Yeah, sure, part of the process is playing around that RNG, but I really don't find that very appealing. But generally yes, good roguelikes don't rely too much on RNG and whatever is in there is with the express purpose of spicing things up and keeping them unpredictable enough so you don't end up going through the motions each time.

 

[luj1]

Do you guys suggest getting ToME on Steam or GOG

 

[Lacrymas]

Do you guys suggest getting ToME on Steam or GOG

GOG. ToME base game is open source though, so buying it anywhere only gets you an extra class and item transfer. The expansions are paid content, but I recommend them too.

 

[notpl]

So I found this perfect game for my current needs (no time to play, and since I'm crap I die easily and start over in a 2 hour gaming burst). Got as far as level 14, my favourite (and strongest) character is an archer. I find that I can clear the first 2 levels of a dungeon, but then in the 3rd level there's a boss (and sometimes minions) who are too hard for my character. I leave and try a new dungeon but same thing happens (I can think of the slaver compound as an example).

Anyway, any quick general tips? And other than an archer, is there another character which makes the game easier? I think it would have to be a long-range character like an archer.

As lukaszek said. The zone order progression is important. Of curse you can find it yourself but it will be painful and require additional games. What i can propose is this: did you consider using the game mode that gives you more than one life? It still requires playing carefully because number of lives is limited and still gives the perma-death/roguelike vibe but allows to get somewhere in the game without constant restarting. Also, iirc, allows additional classes and races unlocks. Change to normal roguelike mode later as you get more experience with the game.
As to classes - i can't help, i haven't played for a very long time and they probably went through some major balance changes, possibly more than once.

It's important to note that for TOME, the multiple-lives ("Adventure" mode, IIRC?) is the intended and default mode. DarkGod is aware of how bullshit some of the deaths in the game are due to the way the game generates random enemy templates and how spike damage-y everything is. Roguelike is an additional challenge for experienced players the same as the top difficulties are.

 

[Kabas]

Do you guys suggest getting ToME on Steam or GOG

GOG. ToME base game is open source though, so buying it anywhere only gets you an extra class and item transfer. The expansions are paid content, but I recommend them too.

The orcish campaign plays almost like a regular rpg rather than roguelike, can't pinpoint exactly why it made me feel this way.
It's also introduced one of few crafting mechanics i find acceptable.

 

[Lacrymas]

The orc expansion is the one I have the least experience with, but the couple of times I played the campaign I thought it was a bit easier than the main one (this isn't a criticism, just an observation). It's also shorter if that's what you are looking for in a roguelike. I've played almost all the content the other two expansions offer and I like them both. Two of the classes from there, Writhing One and Doombringer, are among my favorite. ToME has top-notch class design in general, I haven't played a class yet that I've found boring or uninspired.

 

[Dhaze]

Do you guys suggest getting ToME on Steam or GOG

GOG. ToME base game is open source though, so buying it anywhere only gets you an extra class and item transfer. The expansions are paid content, but I recommend them too.

Same, I also recommend the expansions, they add a lot of quality content. Though the base game is already quite susbtantial in size, so if money is a concern someone could refrain from buying the expansions until they know they want to spend more time with ToME.

The biggest luck factor begins and ends with what random bosses you will get, and iirc that was reined in a while ago by making sure no randboss can spawn with a combination that makes them immortal.

If I'm not mistaken that was around v1.6, when random bosses could no longer combine certain classes, nor could those with a fixed class roll the same class a second time.

The orcish campaign plays almost like a regular rpg rather than roguelike, can't pinpoint exactly why it made me feel this way.

I think it was a mix of different factors. The encounters seemed more carefully crafted from the get-go; the new classes were very powerful, owing in big part to injectors; there was a lot more guaranteed loot. In the end, it was a shorter, easier, tighter campaign, and for me as well it felt strangely less roguelike-ish (though that's not a criticism on my part).

 

[Covenant]

To offer an opposing point of view to the comments about ToME being less luck-based, I had a very good character close to winning this (on Insane/Roguelike, which I've beaten before but I'm not crazy enough to make a serious run at Madness) a little while back - a Cornac Corruptor who picked up the Stone/Gems and Chants trees from escorts, so I was stonetouching everything I came across and had chants ready to clear any bad conditions I got. Except that in the Elven Ruins a randboss got a stack of Fumble on me. Fumble, nearly alone out of negative status conditions, has no 'type' for whatever reason, so it's impossible to clear either with infusions, relentless pursuit, chants, etc (all of which I had available). Anyway, that 5% or so chance of talent failure inevitably struck on the very next turn, and between the damage from that and the randboss itself, I was instantly dead from max health.

I think ToME's very good, but at the same time I dislike it quite a bit for reasons exemplified by the above; it's very all or nothing. I slaughtered the last 50 or so randbosses before that with barely any challenge, and it'd probably have continued in that vein if not for the above. It's been similar on my other characters, winners included. You either completely obliterate enemies without them having chance to do a thing to you or you're slaughtered. Admittedly Corruptor is on the extreme end of that, but it's similar even for the tankier classes on higher difficulties. There are definitely fights that are the exception to this, but it certainly describes the majority of encounters.

I wouldn't say DC:SS is a better roguelike than ToME (certainly not since they started gutting chunks out of the former at every new release), but I do prefer how it evens out luck to some degree by the use of consumables. If you play well, a brief spate of bad luck (or a moment of inattention or bad play, which is even more likely in a game of ToME's extreme length) can be recovered through the use of the resources you've saved up until that point. ToME's systems don't really allow for that, and while the combat is generally a lot better it makes the experience swing more between frustrating and perfunctory without landing on the sweet spot.

It's important to note that for TOME, the multiple-lives ("Adventure" mode, IIRC?) is the intended and default mode. DarkGod is aware of how bullshit some of the deaths in the game are due to the way the game generates random enemy templates and how spike damage-y everything is. Roguelike is an additional challenge for experienced players the same as the top difficulties are.

This is a fair point and it does address the above issues significantly, but if it's calling itself a roguelike, you can't expect roguelike players not to play it on roguelike mode if it's available. It'd probably be a better game overall if roguelike mode wasn't actually implemented, but that spins off into a whole bunch of other discussions about difficulty and whether it's a mark against a game if it offers unfair challenges, even if those challenges are purely optional.

 

[Kabas]

the new classes were very powerful

Understatement!
Playing as Sawbutcher upon Embers of Rage release was a glorious experience. He dealt significant amount of damage by just walking around enemies and could run away from anything with that insane speed.
It's been awhile after i last played TOME, the current sawbutcher is likely a nerfed dissapointment.

 

[Lacrymas]

Covenant, roguelike mode is definitely possible, but some classes have it easier than others, I wouldn't say a Corruptor is one of them. On top of that, you got killed in a non-mandatory zone, which is always a gamble on roguelike mode. But yeah, what you are describing is semi-common when you reach the higher levels.