Tales of Maj'Eyal

[Covenant]

On top of that, you got killed in a non-mandatory zone, which is always a gamble on roguelike mode.

If they don't want me to go to Elven Ruins they shouldn't put the best music in the game there.

 

[Dhaze]

I think ToME's very good, but at the same time I dislike it quite a bit for reasons exemplified by the above; it's very all or nothing.

I'm conflicted on that topic.

On one hand I think it's not very all or nothing, because all in all there are not that many swings in difficulty, not that many times when you encounter something that poses mortal danger. Yet on the other hand I think it is very all or nothing, because when there is a swing in difficulty, it's often one hell of a fucking swing and you can't do much—if indeed anything—to counter it.

If they don't want me to go to Elven Ruins they shouldn't put the best music in the game there.

And lo! the truest of truths has been spoken.



(though I'm quite partial to Woods Of Eremae)

 

[anvi]

I don't usually like roguelikes but I understand why indie devs do it. I think it makes sense sometimes, like when you can showcase some really good gameplay but you haven't got the budget to make a big game out of it so you make a mini game that you repeat over and over. I wouldn't want to play most of those games though, but I liked TOME4 because of all those classes and plenty of unique spells and abilities.

I would love for some of these good 1 man devs to be able to grow in the future to a small team and make some killer games. Or combine forces with another company. Like imagine if the Noita peeps and TOME4 teamed up.

 

[Lacrymas]

I wouldn't say ToME is a small game, let me tell you.

 

[Rafidur]

I wouldn't say ToME is a small game, let me tell you.

Afaik it's made by about 1 dude and a few testers.

https://git.net-core.org/tome/t-engine4/activity

 

[Tombo]

Wet dream that probably wouldn't work out in practice: Exile III remade using Tome4's character/enemy system (still 6 party members).

 

[TwoEdge]

I wouldn't say ToME is a small game, let me tell you.

Afaik it's made by about 1 dude and a few testers.

https://git.net-core.org/tome/t-engine4/activity

Although Darkgod oversees it all and is responsible for the massive codebase, most content is created by several categories of contributors that come and go. Classes, races, and balance, nowadays, tend to be heavy collaborative efforts, usually starting as mods, most of the principal art is drawn by Rexorcorum and the project was enriched by diverse talent over the years. It also began life as Tales of Middle Earth in (I think) 2004 and had to be massively revamped to expunge all Tolkien references and create an identity of its own. It's definitely no tiny indie.

 

[Lacrymas]

I wouldn't say ToME is a small game, let me tell you.

Afaik it's made by about 1 dude and a few testers.

https://git.net-core.org/tome/t-engine4/activity

I meant that it has a lot of content and isn't small by any means.

 

[xuerebx]

I wouldn't say ToME is a small game, let me tell you.

Afaik it's made by about 1 dude and a few testers.

https://git.net-core.org/tome/t-engine4/activity

It also began life as Tales of Middle Earth in (I think) 2004 and had to be massively revamped to expunge all Tolkien references and create an identity of its own. It's definitely no tiny indie.

Ah, so that's where the name came from. I thought "Maj'Eyal" was a strange name, and I keep saying "Taj Mahal" in my head.

 

[Dhaze]

It also began life as Tales of Middle Earth in (I think) 2004 and had to be massively revamped to expunge all Tolkien references and create an identity of its own. It's definitely no tiny indie.

Ah, so that's where the name came from. I thought "Maj'Eyal" was a strange name, and I keep saying "Taj Mahal" in my head.

And it's still thoroughly suffused with Tolkien-isms. Hell, at one point in the game your objective sits literally under the title 'There And Back Again'.

(it's my dream that one day, an equivalent to DarkGod will create an equivalent to Tales Of Maj'Eyal, based not on Middle Earth but rather on Clark Ashton Smith's Averoigne; then I'll know happiness)

 

[Sykar]

It also began life as Tales of Middle Earth in (I think) 2004 and had to be massively revamped to expunge all Tolkien references and create an identity of its own. It's definitely no tiny indie.

Ah, so that's where the name came from. I thought "Maj'Eyal" was a strange name, and I keep saying "Taj Mahal" in my head.

And it's still thoroughly suffused with Tolkien-isms. Hell, at one point in the game your objective sits literally under the title 'There And Back Again'.

(it's my dream that one day, an equivalent to DarkGod will create an equivalent to Tales Of Maj'Eyal, based not on Middle Earth but rather on Clark Ashton Smith's Averoigne; then I'll know happiness)

What is the difference?

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

The easiest class that I ever played is the hellfire archmage.

Archmage, if I recall properly, starts locked but it's a very easy unlock, you have to give an artifact to that traveling mage guy on the map, he's right near where you start.
Hellfire was a little trickier, you have to deal X amount of fire damage to unlock that particular talent tree I think.

Of course, you can also just edit the unlock file to unlock whatever you want. I did that, because I wanted to try different classes, but I get why some people wouldn't want to.

Personally I think DCSS is a "better" roguelike, but obviously it's a matter of opinion. DCSS is a tighter game (Maybe too tight, especially as they keep removing content). Sorting through the garbage items I picked up on every map gets old quick.

Also I hate the way traveling bands on the overmap can randomly be ridiculously powerful. It's one thing in vaults, where you have to purposely go in there, but you have to walk over the world map! Still, they're fairly easy to avoid if you're mindful.

I also feel, partially due to the previously mentioned lists of items, that TOME quickly mentally fatigues you from paying full attention at all times. You're autoexploring, killing things, reacting to what happens in fights, and suddenly you're on the verge of death from some random enemy. I know you can use various skills to "scout" on some classes, but that gets really boring really fast.

 

[Covenant]

Also I hate the way traveling bands on the overmap can randomly be ridiculously powerful. It's one thing in vaults, where you have to purposely go in there, but you have to walk over the world map! Still, they're fairly easy to avoid if you're mindful.

In older versions the wandering patrols used to be twice as fast (i.e. the same speed as you). It was even more annoying than it is now. I don't understand what they add to the game other than to perpetuate that feeling you describe of 'Need to constantly pay full attention', even on the world map.

 

[lukaszek]

I know you can use various skills to "scout" on some classes, but that gets really boring really fast.

I had that item which would give me a lot of energy shield if enemy would remove big chunk of my health bar. Made auto exporing a lot easier. If it would proc then I would escape and proceed again with caution.

 

[Dhaze]

It also began life as Tales of Middle Earth in (I think) 2004 and had to be massively revamped to expunge all Tolkien references and create an identity of its own. It's definitely no tiny indie.

Ah, so that's where the name came from. I thought "Maj'Eyal" was a strange name, and I keep saying "Taj Mahal" in my head.

And it's still thoroughly suffused with Tolkien-isms. Hell, at one point in the game your objective sits literally under the title 'There And Back Again'.

(it's my dream that one day, an equivalent to DarkGod will create an equivalent to Tales Of Maj'Eyal, based not on Middle Earth but rather on Clark Ashton Smith's Averoigne; then I'll know happiness)

What is the difference?

Between Tolkien/Middle Earth and Smith/Averoigne (or Smith at large)? Well, a few major aspects really.

Tolkien's Middle Earth stories mostly paint grand tales, beginnings and endings (or the beginnings of an end), great historical upheavals, and the swirling continental motions of powerful forces; whereas Smith's stories, while often set against the background of some bizarre antiquity, are mostly about one rather small, specific event that is quite inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. Tolkien talks about momentous feats of heroism, and recounts bard tales anent the great son of a great man who himself was progeny to a great man, and how in their lineage ever shines the golden stuff of grandeur; whereas Smith will more readily talk, for a few pages at most, about a Pit-born, midden-reeking sorcerer who seeks to satisfy a petty want just for the sake of it.

I think any good game heavily inspired by Tolkien will invariably carry this feeling of greatness and breadth, of worthwile struggle, of light shining needle-like through darkness. But whenas Smith is concerned, I think he would inspire smaller stories, weirder and darker and overall deeply crooked.

Er, I don't know. There's a lot of grand fantasy in video games, a lot of 'end of the world' stuff, and races warring because they've warred for centuries, and of course everything sort of collides to create this once-in-a-millenium conflagration of events. I would love more small-scale stuff, short stories wherein my character remains at a low level of power; and I think Smith's body of work could inspire that. Unfortunately he's been a bit forgotten, supplanted in a way by other writers of weird fiction. (I wonder what Lovecraft—who frequently called Smith a genius—would think were he to learn he's become much more famous than Smith)

I also feel, partially due to the previously mentioned lists of items, that TOME quickly mentally fatigues you from paying full attention at all times. You're autoexploring, killing things, reacting to what happens in fights, and suddenly you're on the verge of death from some random enemy. I know you can use various skills to "scout" on some classes, but that gets really boring really fast.

That's very, very true. And in fact it's the reason why I can never play ToME as much as I'd like; after I manage to bring a character to the end I can't immediately start with another one, I have to take a break from the game because my mind has become a bit foggy so to speak.

And regarding DCSS being a better roguelike, I'm also inclined to agree. My great liking of ToME comes in part because I consider it a lot less roguelike-ish than many other roguelikes—but I'm hard put to pinpoint why exactly that is.

 

[Lacrymas]

ToME is a bite-sized RPG, the roguelike elements are just icing on the cake.

 

[xuerebx]

Welp, died level 17 in Daikara! But managed to kill Harkor'Zun at least, unlocked 2 classes (archmage and cursed(?)) and a bunch of achievements. So pretty happy with where I got to. Lost all my lives in the last hour, died in the sandworm area, got killed once by the lightning clouds which raided the village, once by Harkor'Zun, and a fluke death in Daikara when I lost my attention span for a moment (dammit!!).

I think TOME is my first roguelike where I put in more than a few hours of my time into it. Gotta say I'm loving it. Might try out an archmage although I think it's for more experienced palyers?

 

[Lacrymas]

Archmage has a lot of ability trees, but I wouldn't say it's particularly difficult playing one once you get to know the trees and what defensives you should be picking up. The more complex classes generally have more obscure ways of unlocking and have special resources/mechanics. How hard a class is to play isn't connected to how well it does in the campaign, mind you.

 

[xuerebx]

I went with summoner. Does it make sense to put points in melee offensive skills or should I focus on buffing summons? (Although to be honest I don't see any talents directly impacting the summons, apart from the summon talents themselves).

 

[Kabas]

Might be misremembering something, but there is augment summoning tree you can unlock later with a category point.
For melee and some defence you can unlock psi-blade tree. You're mindstar user anyway, getting lightsabers won't hurt.

 

[Lacrymas]

I went with summoner. Does it make sense to put points in melee offensive skills or should I focus on buffing summons? (Although to be honest I don't see any talents directly impacting the summons, apart from the summon talents themselves).

Both Summoning (augmentation) and (advanced) buff your summons in some way. You have to unlock them when you get category points (the first one is at lvl 10). I wouldn't put points into the melee offensive skills, especially since that category is locked, psiblades are enough.

 

[TwoEdge]

If you're talking about Combat Training, the only useful skills for a summoner are Thick Skin (which I think probably every single class in the game wants at some point, it's just that good, remember to keep a set of con-boosting gear if you do not intend to increase it), and Heavy Armor Training for massive armors (especially because fatigue does not affect equilibrium) and more armor hardiness. That's it, summoners should only bump attack if you're safe and bored, they have other stuff to do otherwise. If you're talking about Psiblades, I'd say get three points in the first skill (no rush) and hope you get some alchemist escorts to top it off, or do it later with leftover points. The other important skill in the tree is Leaves Tide, which I'd put 2 points ASAP for the miss chance (it applies to summons also), you probably don't need to increase it anymore, as your mindpower and mindstars will probably carry it the rest of the way. If you're talking about Combat Techniques, then just as Lacrymas said, skip it entirely.

 

[Lacrymas]

If you're talking about Combat Training, the only useful skills for a summoner are Thick Skin (which I think probably every single class in the game wants at some point, it's just that good, remember to keep a set of con-boosting gear if you do not intend to increase it), and Heavy Armor Training for massive armors (especially because fatigue does not affect equilibrium) and more armor hardiness. That's it, summoners should only bump attack if you're safe and bored, they have other stuff to do otherwise. If you're talking about Psiblades, I'd say get three points in the first skill (no rush) and hope you get some alchemist escorts to top it off, or do it later with leftover points. The other important skill in the tree is Leaves Tide, which I'd put 2 points ASAP for the miss chance (it applies to summons also), you probably don't need to increase it anymore, as your mindpower and mindstars will probably carry it the rest of the way.

He means Combat Techniques. I honestly don't know why Summoners even have this tree.

 

[TwoEdge]

If you're talking about Combat Training, the only useful skills for a summoner are Thick Skin (which I think probably every single class in the game wants at some point, it's just that good, remember to keep a set of con-boosting gear if you do not intend to increase it), and Heavy Armor Training for massive armors (especially because fatigue does not affect equilibrium) and more armor hardiness. That's it, summoners should only bump attack if you're safe and bored, they have other stuff to do otherwise. If you're talking about Psiblades, I'd say get three points in the first skill (no rush) and hope you get some alchemist escorts to top it off, or do it later with leftover points. The other important skill in the tree is Leaves Tide, which I'd put 2 points ASAP for the miss chance (it applies to summons also), you probably don't need to increase it anymore, as your mindpower and mindstars will probably carry it the rest of the way.

He means Combat Techniques. I honestly don't know why Summoners even have this tree.

I'd guess it's for Blinding Speed with Frantic Summoning for instant summons, maybe (much better to go Shalore or Yeek than do that)? Hell of an investment, but could be a great payoff. Also, Rush used to be able to target empty spaces, so it was an escape mechanism. Other than that I'd say it's an artifact of deprecated design philosophies ToME used to have.

 

[Lacrymas]

Definitely not worth it ;d I'd rather go Shalore or Yeek (my current Summoner is a Yeek actually), yeah. A lot of classes had updates over the years, yet Summoner retained this tree for some reason, perhaps DarkGod hasn't gone around to it yet.