Terraria

[20 Eyes]

I don't see how anyone could possibly feel ripped off by Terraria. Most people probably paid 5 dollars for the game, and got a fuck ton of content (a great deal of which came after release). After the items added in 1.1, it would take a lot of work to expand on the game without just adding (more) grindy 'Chainsaw + 4' shit. Maybe the developer's ambitions were too lofty, but they still delivered a quality game with a lot of content and didn't charge more than 10 dollars for it. Can anyone be legitimately butthurt over buying Terraria?

However, the Dredmor developers have actually offered to take over the 'stewardship' of Terraria.

That sounds cool, but doesn't make much sense. Why would they offer to support/update a game they wouldn't be getting money from? You'd think they'd rather work on Dredmor 2 or something.

This could be interesting. I'd like to see the direction the Dredmor guys take the game (hopefully more RPG elements). There is definitely more money to be made with Terraria, I'm sure reasonably priced DLC/expansions would sell at least tens of thousands of units.

 

[potatojohn]

Haven't they earned enough money? They should just open source it and let people do whatever with it.

 

[20 Eyes]

Haven't they earned enough money? They should just open source it and let people do whatever with it.

I don't know why people expect indie studios to open source their games. How often does anyone that creates anything in any medium just hand their work over to the public and say, "Ok, you guys can take it from here"? People seem to get offended when people like Toady of Dwarf Fortress refuse to hand their projects over to the general public, as though they are somehow entitled to the work and the hundreds/thousands of hours of labor that go into games like Terraria and Dwarf Fortress.

If anyone wants to make "Terraria, but deeper and better: The Game", they should get to work coding it and not expect a free piggyback ride courtesy of Re-Logic.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yeah, it's so much better when potentially awesome games go untouched and rot for a dozen years


Never mind the fact that the same people that say the devs are walking gods and can do no wrong will want any competition to their game to die in a fire for being a knockoff, rather than supporting it like they would a mod.

 

[20 Eyes]

Yeah, it's so much better when potentially awesome games go untouched and rot for a dozen years

If you spent a significant portion of your life developing a successful intellectual property, why would you give it to the masses so they can mutate it with uneven quality assets, unbalanced items/skills, fanfic writing, furry and pedo mods, ect? Nobody would ever expect anyone in any other medium to ever surrender their work to the public, yet it's expected of indie studios as though they're committing a crime against gaming by retaining their work.

It's a rare mod that doesn't feel like a mod. If anyone is so talented that they could continue development of a game with consistent (or even improved) quality on every level, they should be making their own game and universe instead of piggy-backing off of someone else's work.

tl;dr - If anyone feels they can make a better Terraria, go make a better Terraria and don't bitch if Re-Logic doesn't release the source code.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Because paying twice for something is totally awesome! And then when the 10th MoM Terraria clone turns out to be crap the devs lied about too, we can use the same fucking excuse to not fix that game either!

The point is that people who've already bought this game should benefit for doing so, not be screwed over for wasting their money on a subpar game by having a far better version released with a new pricetag a year later. The fact that building on an existing work is easier is a good thing. It means you can achieve higher levels of quality more quickly. Harder is not better when it comes to development.

Seriously, why shouldn't they release the code? It's simply what the game is made of. It's akin to releasing the script for a movie. What they originally made doesn't vanish when people add to it. And if the original seems like shit in comparison, well, they should have done it better themselves.

As for why I'd release the source code if I were in their shoes? Because I have some fucking pride in my work and would like to see it carry on as far as possible, not die in obscurity ASAP. If I can't give people the changes they want why would I be all butthurt over letting them make those changes themselves? If Tolkien had been as much of a draconic tool regarding his IP as you seem to be the fantasy genre pretty much wouldn't exist right now. Say goodbye to elves, dwarves, orcs, goblins and every game that follows those tropes. Why should he have let people build on his works? Because that's why he's fucking famous. Nobody remembers the shit someone put up on Rule34. Everyone remembers the good stuff and to a lesser extent, where that good stuff was derived from, the more closely the better.

 

[20 Eyes]

Because paying twice for something is totally awesome! And then when the 10th MoM Terraria clone turns out to be crap the devs lied about too, we can use the same fucking excuse to not fix that game either!

Yeah, because you should be given any game for free as long as you've previously purchased a game that is similar.

The point is that people who've already bought this game should benefit for doing so, not be screwed over for wasting their money on a subpar game by having a far better version released with a new pricetag a year later. The fact that building on an existing work is easier is a good thing. It means you can achieve higher levels of quality more quickly. Harder is not better when it comes to development.

Your benefit is the dozens of hours of playtime you can get from Terraria. If anyone is a good enough programmer/artist that they can improve Terraria in any meaningful way, they probably don't want to spend countless hours working on free fan-projects when they could be doing their own thing. If they were that good and they did want to spend the significant time investment required for improving someone else's work for free, they should get in contact with Re-Digit.

Seriously, why shouldn't they release the code? It's simply what the game is made of. It's akin to releasing the script for a movie. What they originally made doesn't vanish when people add to it. And if the original seems like shit in comparison, well, they should have done it better themselves.

Because it's their work and their livelihood and people aren't done purchasing Terraria. It's the number 2 selling indie game on Steam right now. Giving the source code is more like inviting random people from the street to shoot in your studio with your equipment on your dollar than releasing the script for a movie (which can be obtained by anyone with functioning ears anyway). And I doubt they want people to know exactly how they do things because who knows, maybe they'll make a similar game in the future. Why would you reveal all your techniques and trade secrets to your potential competition?

As for why I'd release the source code if I were in their shoes? Because I have some fucking pride in my work and would like to see it carry on as far as possible, not die in obscurity ASAP. If I can't give people the changes they want why would I be all butthurt over letting them make those changes themselves? If Tolkien had been as much of a draconic tool regarding his IP as you seem to be the fantasy genre pretty much wouldn't exist right now. Say goodbye to elves, dwarves, orcs, goblins and every game that follows those tropes.

Have you ever spent 100's of hours developing an intellectual property and then just forfeited it to the masses? If you haven't, I can see why it would be easy to think that it wouldn't be a big deal. How many people have ever given away a multimillion dollar intellectual property for absolutely nothing? And I'm sure you could tell the Terraria guys a thing or two about what it means to take pride in your work

Most of Tolkien's stuff was just copy/pasted from mythology and thus he couldn't have claimed it was his anyway. And if he were somehow able, protecting his IP would have prevented the same derivative shit from being made over and over and over. Instead of interesting ideas, we get fucking elves all day everyday.

Generic fantasy is the shittiest of shit genres, partly because it's so overdone.

 

[potatojohn]

"Intellectual property"? Are you sure you're in the right place? This isn't americanempirepropaganda.com.

Open sourcing the engine wouldn't mean they couldn't sell the game because you would still have to buy the game to legally own the art assets. All it would mean is that the fans who've made the developers rich would be able to make the modifications they want but will never get since the developers have abandoned the game.

 

[RK47]

I don't get the butthurt over a $5 game. I bought 5 copies and enjoyed it. I didn't feel cheated at all.
"BUT IT COULD"VE BEEN SO MUCH BETTER" isn't that much of a big deal.

 

[20 Eyes]

"Intellectual property"? Are you sure you're in the right place? This isn't americanempirepropaganda.com.

Open sourcing the engine wouldn't mean they couldn't sell the game because you would still have to buy the game to legally own the art assets. All it would mean is that the fans who've made the developers rich would be able to make the modifications they want but will never get since the developers have abandoned the game.

I didn't realize that open sourcing is such a wonderful idea that leads to infinite content for the players while keeping the developers happy. That must explain why so many commercial games are made open source immediately after they're finished. rollingeyesemoticon

 

[potatojohn]

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, bro. Try again.

 

[Achilles]

I don't get the butthurt over a $5 game.

Same. Can anyone really claim that he didn't get his money's worth from Terraria?

 

[DwarvenFood]

I don't see how anyone could possibly feel ripped off by Terraria. Most people probably paid 5 dollars for the game, and got a fuck ton of content (a great deal of which came after release). After the items added in 1.1, it would take a lot of work to expand on the game without just adding (more) grindy 'Chainsaw + 4' shit. Maybe the developer's ambitions were too lofty, but they still delivered a quality game with a lot of content and didn't charge more than 10 dollars for it. Can anyone be legitimately butthurt over buying Terraria?

I wanted to make a post but you said it exactly. Most games in that price range do not have so much free add-ons after release and it's only natural to progress. Would one really have a non-free DLC to Terraria, or rather a new game ? All free content updates stop at a certain point.

 

[Gord]

"Intellectual property"? Are you sure you're in the right place? This isn't americanempirepropaganda.com.

Open sourcing the engine wouldn't mean they couldn't sell the game because you would still have to buy the game to legally own the art assets. All it would mean is that the fans who've made the developers rich would be able to make the modifications they want but will never get since the developers have abandoned the game.

Yeah, how dare people try to make a living from composing music, writing books, creating art or doing research. Filthy capitalists!

The problem isn't the concept per se, but the one-sided interpretation by the entertainment industry.

 

[20 Eyes]

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, bro. Try again.

Maybe, but not addressing the issues I raise and just replying with a cliched saying is even worse. If making a game open source is this magical thing you seem to think it is that has all these pros and absolutely no cons, why isn't every game made open source once the devs are done with it? Why do so few commercial games ever have their source code released? Think about it and get back to me.

 

[potatojohn]

I guess you're new to this whole logic thing, bro, so let me help you out a bit - saying "this is how it is therefore this is how it should be" is not a valid argument.

Try again.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I don't get the butthurt over a $5 game.

Same. Can anyone really claim that he didn't get his money's worth from Terraria?

It's not an issue of getting your money's worth. It's a matter of getting what you were being sold. If I pay for an apple and I get an orange instead, I got my money's worth- but I didn't get the fucking apple and I'm not going to try buying one again, regardless of how much I like oranges or value them.

 

[20 Eyes]

I guess you're new to this whole logic thing, bro, so let me help you out a bit - saying "this is how it is therefore this is how it should be" is not a valid argument.

Try again.

So basically you have no idea what you're talking about, it's ok to admit it. If your idea wasn't poorly thought out "This is how it is, now why should it be your way?" would be an easily answered question.

It's not an issue of getting your money's worth. It's a matter of getting what you were being sold. If I pay for an apple and I get an orange instead, I got my money's worth- but I didn't get the fucking apple and I'm not going to try buying one again, regardless of how much I like oranges or value them.

But you did get your apple. Just because you got an apple with a list of dreams and possible future additions attached to it doesn't mean the apple wasn't there.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I'm not going to argue semantics over how much someone gets to lie about what they're selling before it counts enough.

 

[potatojohn]

So basically you have no idea what you're talking about, it's ok to admit it. If your idea wasn't poorly thought out "This is how it is, now why should it be your way?" would be an easily answered question.

You said that terraria shouldn't be open-sourced because few games are open sourced. This is not a valid argument -- you cannot derive an "ought" from an "is". I know this must be very confusing to you because you've obviously have no background in argumentation or critical thinking, but try to understand my point.

If it helps, you can read the wiki page - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Is-ought_problem

 

[20 Eyes]

So basically you have no idea what you're talking about, it's ok to admit it. If your idea wasn't poorly thought out "This is how it is, now why should it be your way?" would be an easily answered question.

You said that terraria shouldn't be open-sourced because few games are open sourced. This is not a valid argument -- you cannot derive an "ought" from an "is". I know this must be very confusing to you because you've obviously have no background in argumentation or critical thinking, but try to understand my point.

If it helps, you can read the wiki page - https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Is-ought_problem

See, you're still dodging the question. You keep refusing to answer why you think open sourcing a game is a process that has no cons and several substantial pros, and you can't explain why few nobody (besides the Wesnoth guys and a few others) ever does it. These people make games for a living and are highly intelligent, yet you think they've completely ignored the marvelous benefits of open-sourcing that you insist exist and are readily available for free and with absolutely no cons. I guess they just don't know as much about programming and making games as you do.

Anyways, if you don't bother answering the question I'm not going to bother replying again. It's become clear to me that you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Metro]

potatojohn = baronjohn = obvious troll. Don't waste your time.

 

[potatojohn]

See, you're still dodging the question. You keep refusing to answer why you think open sourcing a game is a process that has no cons and several substantial pros, and you can't explain why few nobody (besides the Wesnoth guys and a few others) ever does it. These people make games for a living and are highly intelligent, yet you think they've completely ignored the marvelous benefits of open-sourcing that you insist exist and are readily available for free and with absolutely no cons. I guess they just don't know as much about programming and making games as you do.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We have to take one step at a time. You made the claim that Terraria shouldn't be open-sourced because few other games are open-sourced. I'm trying to explain to you why this isn't a valid argument. Do you agree that you were wrong? If so, we can continue to argue the benefits of open-sourcing abandoned games.

 

[Peter]

I'm not going to argue semantics over how much someone gets to lie about what they're selling before it counts enough.

Did the Terraria devs give any unfulfilled promises? I mean, I can understand getting butthurt over Minecraft, which really did turn out to be a piece of shit despite all of the stuff Notch promised to add, but the Terraria devs have actually put a lot more stuff into the game than I was expecting.

Or were you not talking about Terraria specifically in this post?

 

[Yeesh]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We have to take one step at a time. You made the claim that Terraria shouldn't be open-sourced because few other games are open-sourced. I'm trying to explain to you why this isn't a valid argument. Do you agree that you were wrong? If so, we can continue to argue the benefits of open-sourcing abandoned games.

I would anti-brofist this so hard, if only I could. Please shut up.