Vapourware That Which Sleeps - Vaporware Strategy RP

[Hobo Elf]

Just a reminder that it has been over a month since we last saw an update. So much for new screenshots being released each saturday. Is there anyone left who still thinks that this isn't vaporware?

 

[tindrli]

me

 

[MoLAoS]

And what's even more confusing for a non-programmer - on a small team you need a different skill set from your programmers than on large team. Programmer skill is not a single axis, and productivity, responsibility and a generalist mindset is much more valuable if you only have a single programmer.

A lot of programmers are completely incapable of working without technical supervision - I've worked with incredibly gifted people, who if left to their own devices would never finish anything, and be completely unaware of this fact. However, if managed well, their gifts can be a tremendous asset to a project.

There's also the tendency among many programmers to choose the interesting and risky solution over the boring and safe solution. That's good for keeping motivation up, but can also lead to a buggy, delayed mess.

Programmers are wizards in a way - but with an unknown level and class. A programmer might be a necromancer, piecing together code golems from scraps found on the internet; a wild mage who can deliver code faster than anyone, at the cost of random weirdness popping up all the time; a scholarly sort more apt at talking about code than actually writing it - or even an illusionist, whose creations are phantasms and have no real effect. And what's worse, these wizards have no idea how much mana they have and how much mana their spells cost.

Working with a wizard you have seen in action previously is a lot safer than venturing into the depths with some guy you hired for cheap at the inn because he had the wizard look down and did some flashy pyrotechnics to impress you.

Great post.

Its so true. I'd love to hear stories about programmers who were amazing with supervision but sucked solo. Would make a great industry blog.

 

[Ludovic]

Its so true. I'd love to hear stories about programmers who were amazing with supervision but sucked solo. Would make a great industry blog.

Framework Obsessions Syndrome is a common failing among developers, mostly unrelated to skill level. For some reason, these of programmers derive much greater pleasure from creating frameworks, engines, plugin systems and modularity, than product/feature-related work. These are the people who will spend months early on in a project lovingly crafting the scaffolding for the project, arguing with great passion why this initial development is incredibly important. Without supervision, they will run out of time to implement the actual product, which will often be rushed and shoddy, as huge chunks of development time was basically wasted.

The reverse is the ubiquitous Cowboy Coder, who will dazzle management with early prototypes that look almost fully functional on the surface, incredibly fast turn-around time on feature requests and a seemingly very high productive. On closer inspection, these astounding results are made possible by a complete disregard for accumulation of technical debt and not just a willingness to use hacks and kludges, but a strong preference to taking the easy way out. Without supervision, they will leave behind code that is impossible to maintain or extend by others, and management will be left confused as they are told what they thought was an incredible piece of innovative engineering is massive hack job and a ticking bomb under the project.

 

[MoLAoS]

I've heard of those, I meant stories of specific people and projects. But yeah, I'm sorta the first one. I just love math and systems and shit and you can get quite a bit of emotional uplift from mathematical fiddling instead of shipping projects.

 

[Ludovic]

One example would be a developer I worked with - not a "rockstar", but with solid skills and quite productive. However, I watched him lie straight to the face of our management several times when asked whether implementing a specific feature was possible. Because he thought it would be a boring task and/or a dumb feature. He then went happily back to spending a few weeks implementing a plug-in system, which no-one asked for and no-one ever used.

Most of the stories/examples aren't really that exciting, just people who spend hours writing unnecessary code because they think it's interesting, don't test their code, write hacks, etc. In general a lot of programmers need to know someone will give their code a critical eye before it gets into the project main/release/production/whatever branch.

I do have some genuinely absurd stories, but I can't tell those without breaching confidentiality. I think every programmer with some experience has those really. The only crappy programmers don't come to realize how much unnecessary, even detrimental, code is written, because of out-of-control senior programmers. The bad ones imitate their seniors and pick up the crazy habits without the skill to offset it. There's a lot of cargo cults and "emperor's new clothes" in software development, in my opinion.

Most of the time, something useful emerges despite the sheer insanity of collective development, but it's kind of sad how much better many products could be, with proper technical leadership. I think that's one of the big advantages of open-source software. If a contributor goes off on a weird tangent, it is completely visible to the other contributors, and they can try to steer the rogue developer back on a more reasonable track. In a corporate environment, that's actually a lot harder in most cases.

 

[Dim]

Once, long ago, the young wanted stories of hunting and war. Now they just want crazy programing.

 

[Barbarian]

Just a reminder that it has been over a month since we last saw an update. So much for new screenshots being released each saturday. Is there anyone left who still thinks that this isn't vaporware?

There is certainly a game here, we can see a pretty solid design and progress being made... but can I be honest? This seems like the kind of game that will take years to get made with the resources they got. KS devs, specially ones somewhat new to the business or getting back into development after years tend to be overoptmistic bout what they can do and how fast they can do it.

Look at Hero-U or Asylum. I'm still optmistic about getting great games out of my support for both, but in the end both will have a development cycle of over 5 years(and they were both promised to be delivered in less than 2).

 

[Lightsinthesky]

What resources, they're running on fumes and now they want to bring in VAs.

 

[Destroid]

Sadly, procgen maps was probably a big mistake for just that reason. Even though we all want them.

 

[almondblight]

There is certainly a game here, we can see a pretty solid design and progress being made

Eh, the one dev can't get the programmer to send him anything except screenshots. He keeps saying he'll send him a build, then stops answering his calls (for the past several months). That's a pretty huge warning sign.

 

[Lightsinthesky]

So Josh said he'd get Fenicks a build today before he gets on the road to move back to Boston or wherever it is Fenicks lives. Surprise surprise that didn't happen, but he says he'll have something in Fenick's hands when he gets there next week. I personally predict that the highway patrol will find him dead in a ditch somewhere given his previous track record.

 

[almondblight]

"Hey man, I had trouble getting out of town, my car is in the shop and won't be done until next week. Don't worry, when I get to Boston I'll have something great to show you, promise!"

 

[hivemind]

 

[thesheeep]

Oh, well.
Too bad, I guess.

But will we have time to complain the next 17 years about it?
Will it be a gift that keeps on giving?

 

[Got bored and left]

Only if we keep hearing reports of the ever diminishing number of issues and micro-issues left to be squashed.

 

[Polanski]

I have no idea if a game will come out of this in the end. Seems unlikely though.
But at least this serves a great example for aspiring developers, of how difficult a development can be if you are on your own and of how dangerous power creep be.

I just hope that people will not stop backing ideas they love and believe in, because of examples like this. I still got a lot of enjoyment out of discussing and thinking about this game, and I like to think that original and ambitious ideas like this still bring us forward and enhances the art form.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I'm done backing someone elses dreams with my money. From now on I only buy if the game is finished.

 

[Beowulf]

You were backing you own dream, that some strangers promised to realise for you.

 

[Hobo Elf]

You were backing you own dream, that some strangers promised to realise for you.

In this case you're right. This is the kind of game I've always wanted to play.

 

[Matalarata]

Yes, this is frankly one of the biggest letdown I've ever felt in my gaming history. I was probably being naive but it ringed so many bells...

Fortunately I never backed it, I suppose I'm not that naive

 

[Hobo Elf]

I feel worse about backing Shadow Run Returns and that game was released.

 

[almondblight]

"Hey man, I had trouble getting out of town, my car is in the shop and won't be done until next week. Don't worry, when I get to Boston I'll have something great to show you, promise!"

So...Fenicks just posted this:

No word yet from Josh so I have to suppose he's running behind schedule. I may not get in to meet him until the weekend.

 

[not an artichoke]

Oh well. I've spent $15 on worse things. At least failed Kickstarters can't give you an incurable disease.

 

[Ninjerk]

Yet.