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Vapourware That Which Sleeps - Vaporware Strategy RP
- Thread starter Kem0sabe
- Start date
I'm confident we'll be accurate with our estimations, we both have a long history of budgeting massive projects and dealing with contractors, although less so inside the Game Industry. That being said, we will be erring on the side of ++dollars because anything pledged, like you said, must get done. Nothing would stop us from completing it, but we need to ensure that sufficient money exists for all of the necessary art assets.
We spent some time earlier POCing the procedural generation component because it seems people overwhelmingly are in favor of it (so far, I'm hoping for a rally from the Religion component), and the Tile Generation for a map is, as expected, straightforward - assigning POIs by geographical importance is more iffy, definitely a "repeat until perfect" affair which I absolutely hate. What worked shockingly well was the Genealogical Generation itself, at Game Start we assigned a Culture to random POIs with a primitive government type, it also has values based on the geography where it started. Every turn each "culture group" (proto-nation structure) does one thing at random "Expand one square" or "develop new cultural trait." If it is large enough it has a chance to "upgrade to new government type" or "have a civil war" which then creates an associated subculture. So we just put all those things at a percentage and let it go, actually made reasonably believable map structures. Would still require weeks of work to generate "logical" leaders, heroes, and make sure the map generation was "perfect" but it was interesting and has somewhat sold me on the idea whereas before I was 100% committed to the static maps we had developed.
Of course, we may not even pass our KS so it's all pie in the sky at this point. Mmm, pie.
Can we pledge pie on kickstarter? What tier would a blueberry pie get me?
Blueberry? Not much - now if we're talking Banana Cream... you've got my attention
An ebb in the force stirred my lurking on the 'Dex (As to say, "yay, first post"). I would like to ask something about art...
When you say "summon powerful minion" are you referring to human/humanoid minions? Are there more summonable eldritch oddities? I'm thinking more "Shoggoth" than "Hellhound/Dead raven" here.
One of the things I love in the minimalist 2D approach of Dominions 4 graphic is how those little sprites convey a sense of asimmetry and otherworldness...
Since the game is shaping up with at least what looks like a good amount of LoveCraft-ing thrown in, I'm in one of those odd position in wich I'm actually waiting for this hyping about... immershun...
(I may as well admit it now, since I'm a newfag... so in before
)
Also, what is your take on madness in game? Are there large scale mechanics for it? Is it a generic debuff on enemy kingdoms or I can tailor it up for my needs (eg mass paranoia vs hysteria for different strategic effect)?
When you say "summon powerful minion" are you referring to human/humanoid minions? Are there more summonable eldritch oddities? I'm thinking more "Shoggoth" than "Hellhound/Dead raven" here.
One of the things I love in the minimalist 2D approach of Dominions 4 graphic is how those little sprites convey a sense of asimmetry and otherworldness...
Since the game is shaping up with at least what looks like a good amount of LoveCraft-ing thrown in, I'm in one of those odd position in wich I'm actually waiting for this hyping about... immershun...
(I may as well admit it now, since I'm a newfag... so in before
)Also, what is your take on madness in game? Are there large scale mechanics for it? Is it a generic debuff on enemy kingdoms or I can tailor it up for my needs (eg mass paranoia vs hysteria for different strategic effect)?
Powerful minions range from elite humans to monstrous aberrations - you'll have Shoggoths you'll have your more mundane fantasy types. However, we accomplish this wide variety by, sadly, not having any graphics for minions. Minions are recruited to Agents and appear on their character sheet and during combat as simplified cards with statistics and abilities. We are "art poor" and didn't want to sacrifice variety to get a few illustrated minions.
Madness depends on if it's applied to a person (leader, champion, hero) or a POI (city, village). Madness on a person is a part of their personality, so you can through some mechanisms make a person insanely jealous, paranoid, delusional etc and it impacts the actions they take. Madness as a condition on a POI is more along the line of riots, bloodshed and general carnage.
Madness depends on if it's applied to a person (leader, champion, hero) or a POI (city, village). Madness on a person is a part of their personality, so you can through some mechanisms make a person insanely jealous, paranoid, delusional etc and it impacts the actions they take. Madness as a condition on a POI is more along the line of riots, bloodshed and general carnage.
That's perfectly fine... I'm talking more about the feel of the thing than graphics. Actually I had the same exact tought while writing but decided to make the Dominion comparison anyway. What I'm interested in is impersonating a non fantasy, alien kind of horror. My mind can fill the blanks (At least some flavourful descriptions? Pretty please?!?)
Madness: Sounds really good. Thanks!
Madness: Sounds really good. Thanks!
Minion portraits sound perfect for a minor stretch goal. I think even little thumbnails (like Arkham Horror) would be good to include if you can, although something good enough quality to blow up to magic card size would be ideal.
Hmm, you know that's a good idea that we had just completely tossed out - let me POC it with a stock image and see how it looks - we'll price it out and see where it fits in the overarching stretch goals. We have a fantastic portrait artist that we're hoping to use for most of the art and we'll see if he'd have bandwith and what the cost would be, and if so that might make a great first stretch goal. Depends on screen real estate as well, but I'll keep you informed.
So what's the pledge tier to add a monster to the world? I smell a codex fundraiser for multi-headed dicks 
On a more srs note -- your previous video that showcased character generation had the world map being preconfigured and you mentioning it was moddable. Are there any plans to make the player traits moddable as well? Something along the lines of adding new starting choices that gives specific bonuses or penalties could be neat. Even if you're limited to something simple like +x bonus when attempting a specific action with a faction.
On a more srs note -- your previous video that showcased character generation had the world map being preconfigured and you mentioning it was moddable. Are there any plans to make the player traits moddable as well? Something along the lines of adding new starting choices that gives specific bonuses or penalties could be neat. Even if you're limited to something simple like +x bonus when attempting a specific action with a faction.
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The game pretty much revolves around multi-headed dicks already, so any more would just be in poor taste.
Absolutely, there's THREE ways to mod the game - one is the Scenario, which also lets you modify those starting choices which could accomplish what you were asking about (Those who supported the Old One were of a certain culture, gives you a big bonus with them), a second is the Global folder, where you can override global settings and modifiers - changing the entire game regardless of scenario, and the third is "Game Mode" mods which can be used for ANY scenario and are chosen from the same screen where you pick the tutorial/basic/hardcore mode. These give generic style bonuses or penalties to the world to change it up, for instance we have a "Horde" mode where Army Recruit Time is -50% and Unit Generation is +100%.
What we wanted was to make it so ANYTHING ANYONE wanted to add could be put in. If we hit roadblocks when the game goes to Early Access with modders then it will be our priority to remove those roadblocks.
Absolutely, there's THREE ways to mod the game - one is the Scenario, which also lets you modify those starting choices which could accomplish what you were asking about (Those who supported the Old One were of a certain culture, gives you a big bonus with them), a second is the Global folder, where you can override global settings and modifiers - changing the entire game regardless of scenario, and the third is "Game Mode" mods which can be used for ANY scenario and are chosen from the same screen where you pick the tutorial/basic/hardcore mode. These give generic style bonuses or penalties to the world to change it up, for instance we have a "Horde" mode where Army Recruit Time is -50% and Unit Generation is +100%.
What we wanted was to make it so ANYTHING ANYONE wanted to add could be put in. If we hit roadblocks when the game goes to Early Access with modders then it will be our priority to remove those roadblocks.
For the curious and the otherwise bored - Dev Log #2
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2009
- Messages
- 10,092
Looks cool. I like the tooltips
Nice!
I also approve of the UAC colored coat of arms for the village in the left corner. A nice and subtle way to underline that something scheming and machiavellian is lurking there, waiting to take control...
I also approve of the UAC colored coat of arms for the village in the left corner. A nice and subtle way to underline that something scheming and machiavellian is lurking there, waiting to take control...
I love tooltips - they make me happy
So we will be going over Army control in Video 5, but in general you have a "Command" role to play. Military battles play out over multiple turns, it isn't simply A vs B and one side wins and the other retreats. Instead they both stand in the POI and duke it out, and you can decide if you want to try and Stall, fight for Attrition, throw Everything at the Enemy, withhold or deploy your elite units, etc etc. This mechanic reinforces that the military component is an ELEMENT of the overall strategy not necessarily an end into itself (though you can play that way.) It also reinforces the need to plan in advance, if the enemy's Elite Knights are still ready to fight when you go to war you better have a method of handling them.
So we will be going over Army control in Video 5, but in general you have a "Command" role to play. Military battles play out over multiple turns, it isn't simply A vs B and one side wins and the other retreats. Instead they both stand in the POI and duke it out, and you can decide if you want to try and Stall, fight for Attrition, throw Everything at the Enemy, withhold or deploy your elite units, etc etc. This mechanic reinforces that the military component is an ELEMENT of the overall strategy not necessarily an end into itself (though you can play that way.) It also reinforces the need to plan in advance, if the enemy's Elite Knights are still ready to fight when you go to war you better have a method of handling them.
tabacila
Augur
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2011
- Messages
- 326
Sounds cool. You mentioned giving specific orders to elite units. Does this mean you have some form of tactical control over individual units or is it just a stay in reserve/move to the front line kind of thing?
How are armies led? Do they all have a general/leader, or do you have to assign agents to lead them and the rest are just leaderless from your perspective?
LOVE to hear about the multiple turns battle.
Will this allow you (or the enemy) to bring up reinforcements to a battle site or even maneuver an army and attack the enemy from behind?
I think in the dev log you mentioned something about cities supporting units (it was late at night and may have imagined it). Does this mean that armies have lines of supplies and if you cut them they get penalties? Could be awesome to attract the Alliance of Good (TM) army through a choke-point with a lesser force, then use your elite orcs and otherworldly horrors to cut their only line of retreat and supply and watch them starve to death.
Very nice to hear for the need to do recon and then plan accordingly! Will there be a tier system for units like levies/regulars/elites/etc. ?
How many questions can I ask you about armies and combat before you get pissed and unleash the Kraken?
How are armies led? Do they all have a general/leader, or do you have to assign agents to lead them and the rest are just leaderless from your perspective?
LOVE to hear about the multiple turns battle.
Will this allow you (or the enemy) to bring up reinforcements to a battle site or even maneuver an army and attack the enemy from behind?
I think in the dev log you mentioned something about cities supporting units (it was late at night and may have imagined it). Does this mean that armies have lines of supplies and if you cut them they get penalties? Could be awesome to attract the Alliance of Good (TM) army through a choke-point with a lesser force, then use your elite orcs and otherworldly horrors to cut their only line of retreat and supply and watch them starve to death.
Very nice to hear for the need to do recon and then plan accordingly! Will there be a tier system for units like levies/regulars/elites/etc. ?
How many questions can I ask you about armies and combat before you get pissed and unleash the Kraken?
It's not quite tactical control, it is more along the lines of setting a front line but also initiating cavalry charges, maintaining archer fire, flanking, false retreats and similar overarching tactics. It's a simple system in that we relegate regulars to automatic assignment and actions, but let you control what to do with your special units as a means of dictating strategy. We wanted the military part of the game to be strategic but still quick to play.
Armies CAN be lead by agents, but otherwise you can recruit generic commanders from any nation you control. Each army requires a food supply and a commander requires gold so there are some limiting factors.
Absolutely, you can bring reinforcements, you can flank, you can cut enemies out of supply - pinning the enemy army down and then taking out their supply line is a pretty common strategy with our playtesters. Still working on making sure the AI properly handles that threat.
Units do gain experience, but also can be equipped better/worse which will augment their statistics. Don't expect too many levies to become elites, but it can happen - more likely though a war that lasts long enough to see this happen will leave a nation with a much smaller, but more elite, army.
Infinite questions, INFINITEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Armies CAN be lead by agents, but otherwise you can recruit generic commanders from any nation you control. Each army requires a food supply and a commander requires gold so there are some limiting factors.
Absolutely, you can bring reinforcements, you can flank, you can cut enemies out of supply - pinning the enemy army down and then taking out their supply line is a pretty common strategy with our playtesters. Still working on making sure the AI properly handles that threat.
Units do gain experience, but also can be equipped better/worse which will augment their statistics. Don't expect too many levies to become elites, but it can happen - more likely though a war that lasts long enough to see this happen will leave a nation with a much smaller, but more elite, army.
Infinite questions, INFINITEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I first read that as Neuromancer DLC, and as ridiculous it seems, I think there could be something there.
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