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DramaticPopcorn

Guest
I take everything I've said back. Any tips for playing as Belial? I keep getting steamrolled when the Chosen One shows up on the North Burns map.
It's a general scenario that happens by turn 130 or after your omnipotence rises to a certain level.

I usually turtle and use allies to wear his armies down, but you gotta have a LOT of influence built up. Some people say it's possible to manfight him with Belial's Blackguards or Moloch's Sorcerers (which is only available for gold patrons, btw) but I've yet to try it.

Can't wait for someone to mod this event out. It's kinda bullshit tbh.
 

hivemind

Guest
Only plebs can't deal with Chosen One.

I like to cheese it by stacking corruption bonuses before he spawns and then just taking him for myself
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,427
Location
Space Hell
What's your build order? Level several elite units or zerg rush the villages and then rush for infiltrating towns? I find missions to secretly open the gates have a very little success rate and swarming them is musch eaier
 

DramaticPopcorn

Guest
What's your build order? Level several elite units or zerg rush the villages and then rush for infiltrating towns? I find missions to secretly open the gates have a very little success rate and swarming them is musch eaier
Corrupting lords is much better in the long run, you eventually get all income and manpower but you gotta be prepared for inquisition events.

That said, if I have to take a settlement, I incite crimewaves first and then convert convicts to weaken the defenses. Took over a major human city once that way.

Btw, there's a cool starting perk that passively boosts strategic spells for every floor of Black Library, but disables mana points regeneration. How viable is it to take it and sacrifice zealots for mana? Will I make it to late game?

BTW, anyone managed to corrupt/destroy Holy Grail yet? Is it one of the hidden victory conditions?
 

hivemind

Guest
Black Library is shit with or without the perk

you can really get fucked if Questing Heroes raid it
 

col2071

Novice
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
7
Sadly at this point making up elaborate fake stories about a nonexistent TWS is the only game there is :cry: Looks like Josh understood that long ago..
 

hivemind

Guest
Where to get on the alpha? Looked around the site nothing and forum access is completely blocked off?
email josh for the file then put in one of the codes

but I'm not sure if they weren't all taken already
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
1,832
Wait a moment, this actually exists? And you guys are playing some alpha? Wow.

Yeah, Josh is circulating an alpha privately among select backers. He is trying to keep it a closed alpha since he is really gun shy after the scandals that plagued this game's dev cycle.

BTW, anyone managed to corrupt/destroy Holy Grail yet? Is it one of the hidden victory conditions?

I think that has to do with the whole worship/gods/planes mechanic (as explained by the second half of this update). Apparently if you do enough dream quests in the correct planes and summon enough avatars of various deities you can manipulate the Grail, but seeing as how that part of the game is half-finished, I don't even know if that is possible to do yet.

Only plebs can't deal with Chosen One.

I like to cheese it by stacking corruption bonuses before he spawns and then just taking him for myself

Well that is exactly the problem, right? Chosen One event either forces you to 1. concentrate on stacking corruption for 100 turns 2. lose 3. play Sisyphus, who can corrupt the Chosen One (which can be done pretty reliably if you can pay attention to CO's traits) and then you get a giant army stack with overpowered elites to win the rest of the game with. It really bottlenecks the playstyles and makes the end game pretty repetitive.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
30,035
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I just bombard the chosen one with orc hordes. Wears his morale down so bad he needs cheering up. At which point you toss the Courtesan at him for a stab in the dark. It's easy if you support the orc hordes. RIP courtesan though.
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
1,832
seriously cut this shit out
In the absence of a TWS beta, posting to this thread is the only way that backers can accurately simulate Belial's power to spread insanity through manipulation and deceit

The biggest joke of all is that Josh had been doing this all along. Now that we know that he never had a working game for most of the dev cycle, we can safely assume that all of the updates he wrote were equivalent to make belief or roleplaying or Codex shitposting.

I gotta say though, he is really atoning for his mistakes with this great closed alpha .
:troll:
 

col2071

Novice
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
7
Hey quick question for alpha testers - in the last KS update Josh promised he's now implemented at least 6 different underground soil types which have meaningful impact on gameplay; I'm just wondering if you could clarify which soils made it into the alpha or at least whether he's using the USGS or UNESCO Soil Map classification systems for balancing?

I mean I've pulled the following from Joe's original design doc and can see where they're heading, but it all depends on which soils have been implemented for an alpha to even be worth it. We need to make sure at least Spodosols and Aridisols are in the game with a GUI overlay for Clay, Silt, and Loam content on the 3D map before rushing into anything unwarranted like, say, any actual gameplay videos or playtesting.

Besides for us savvy "mod tier" backers the Mod Tools release is only 30 months behind schedule, so when it comes out I am totally modding in everything on the USGS soil texture grid above 40% silt separates.

https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb1044818.pdf

SoilTextureTriangle.jpg

soil.classification.map.jpg

mo-ta-phau-dien-dat-theo-usda-2012-version-30-41-638.jpg
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
1,832
As far as I know sand, loam, and clay are present but I have no idea about the classification systems. Do you have an autism or something? Because let's be honest, content is far from the priority issue in an alpha. Yeah there are only three out of the six planned soils (with a dozen more promised after released) and yeah, that is pretty sparse for my tastes, but its not like there aren't major technical and balancing issues to consider. For example, actually using the underground map and its mechanics. Really only Moloch is going to be getting much use out of it, the rest of the ancient evils can safely ignore it (in fact, wasting time in the underground seems to be really costly for them with little to no gains). That is an entire complicated system that is only relevant to one character - a massive balancing problem, that. No wonder Josh took his sweet time. Its like he coded a whole new different game for each character.

Can anyone shine some light on the game's metaplot? After beating the North Burns map twice as Belial I got a splashscreen before getting kicked to the main menu. It was just a big bold "THE WRETCH RETURNS" text and a series of signs (couldn't recognize any, a lot of inverted triangles and hieroglyphics-looking symbols) on a plain black background. Is there some sort of narrative that is meant to tie the individual playthroughs together? Or is it this game's way of letting me know I've unlocked an achievement or something?

Oh, a note to the skeptics - the lack of gameplay videos is due to the NDA. This is a closed alpha, after all.
 

kazgar

Arcane
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
2,164
Location
Upside Down
Errrrrr

Update
2 Comments
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3 likes
I'll have some release information for everyone soon, but in the meantime let's take a look at some screenshots of the latest build - there's been a variety of tweaks to the main map interface that, while each is fairly minor, adds up to a different experience when playing the game.

First a comparison between the three non-strategic levels of zoom.






The closest level of zoom hides dynamic connections, displays roads, and can show Activities in full detail. It also prioritizes tooltips for Modifiers.






The second level of zoom prioritizes highlights, quests, and other map elements that exist above modifiers.






The third level expands military information and conceals any display elements that may interfere with strategic planning.

As for what you're seeing on the map you have the locations themselves which now display two radial progress bars: the left side for Crises, the right for the highest priority activity. The bottom bar is for Resolve, which I'll talk about later (and is the last replacement element for the old AI system), and also represents Siege strength during a siege.

Armies now have a colored radial selector beneath them - green indicates an army you have no control over, yellow indicates you may be able to influence them, and red is an army you have direct control over.

Infiltration is now shown via a simple red orb above the Location strength if infiltration is present, and that orb is used consistently on all displays to indicate the presence of infiltration. Infiltration is no longer color coded but instead there are icons that will represent what assets you have gained through infiltration, and they are displayed on the quick location display (the upper right) in a list at the bottom of the display. In the images above the Location's Religious Organizations and Institutions have been infiltrated.

Clues are shown on the Location display, with colors for each - they are displayed the upper right of the main Location strength display. They do not change to reflect amount or strength, just the presence of a clue type.

Crises are more definitively graphically split so that their effects layer better on the map without obscuring other details, on the map above you can see a red inner circle on the Locations with Unrest > 150, as well as sparse lightning in the region where Wild Magic is > 150. The red rippling in the wake of combat indicate Lost Spirits > 150 - intensity for each crisis increases as they approach the critical value of 300.

Sprawl no longer creates along splines, there was a variety of reasons for this but now it not only represents the locations better but also makes it easier to make more important objects well defined on the map. The only objects that still form along the splines are fortifications. Sprawl more accurately reflects the makeup of the location and depicts institutions, temples, trade, and other mundane buildings as well as Major Highlights.

Dynamic connections use only one material (dotted line) instead of the various others used prior, this is for optimization purposes and I don't really feel that using just one type and several colors detracts from reading the map.

Naval Routes are only displayed when selecting the Location to avoid clutter on the map, though the trade ships traveling between them run always. Major Naval Routes are still always, but are no longer defined by value of trade but instead connecting two Markets.

Quest markers are standardized into four pulsating objects representing Martial, Culture, Lore, and Political - you can see the Martial Quest marker on the map in red to the left.

Most significantly is the new method of visualizing Creature Modifiers - the colored orbs around the map are any creature with strength > 150. As they get closer to 300 the orbs will pulsate. Creature Modifiers are shown in one of four colors representing what type of action they take when they reach 300 - Red for Martial, Blue for Lore, Green for Passive, Purple for "other." This allows the player to keep track of opportunities emerging passively without it overwhelming the map. You can still enable the more traditional Icon and Strength look by clicking on the map options buttons.




Highlights like Major Ruins in the picture above have been given more illustrative mouseover windows in order to keep players "on the map" as much as possible without having to dig through the menus. All Highlight windows will show Adventuring Groups (if detected by you) present at the location.

Not the crossed swords icon on the map, that represents an "Adventuring Group" or "Expedition" on the map. Also note the twisted tentacle along the edge of several of the locations, this indicates that an Overlord controls this location.




While major ruins are generally static on the map, many Highlights are not - like the Gathering type shown above. This particular gathering is an attempt to raise the intervention and resolve of the Elves by the Seven. In most meetings of this sort (Peace Summits being by far the most common) the blue bar represents the positive result and the red represents "Discord" raised by participants disliking one another. There are many methods to either raise discord or simply cause havoc with your agents.

Also on this map you can see a Node (Site of Power) which emanates the Veins of Limos. They are the primary means of accumulating Primal Power.




Here's a shot with all of the optional menus enabled, as well as a Modifier Mouseover Window. Note the sword in the Modifier window, this signifies that this Creature Modifier has a leader, which can either be left to increase the Creature Modifier's performance or can be recruited as a minion or elite unit (depending on the Creature).

In the upper left is the Army display, which hasn't changed much - it allows you to filter through the nations in which you have direct control over at least one army. In the lower left is the "Lurking" window which tracks Characters, Locations, and Modifiers that you have selected. For Locations and Modifier it just helps you keep track of them, but for Characters you can select to have your assets either Impede or Harm these Characters if able, though both options come with a large profile cost to your assets generally leading to their loss.

In the upper right is the news tab, works generally as you might expect - each word in bold is a link the relevant character/location/object.

Also worth mentioning on this image is the camps surrounding the Orc Horde - Hordes cannot Levee or raise large armies as other Army Types, but they can "Call Hordes" over time to their Location, and then launch a massive Horde far over their base army size. These armies must be in near constant combat or face massive attrition.






The final image I wanted to show today was of a Resolve Event, called an Opportunity (the events that occur during your challenges are now called "Encounters"). With the loss of the metadata based AI system I've been working hard to preserve the functionality and flow of the game, and one of the final elements was handling the "Exceptional" actions that leaders could take - where prior they were limited by the nature of the system they now required a more traditional method of allowing access to and restriction from overuse.

I didn't want to create another currency for their use, and draining willpower is already an integral part of the process - instead I wanted it to still tie in somewhat to how the world was "flowing" as the previous system did. To do this I added in Resolve/Spirit, which reflects the "passion" of the culture - some cultures respond well to militaristic campaigns and will have their resolve rise significantly, others may responds to scientific developments or the threat of an unknown evil. Resolve/Spirit adds its value to each Location every turn and when they reach 300 the Location triggers an Opportunity based on the Culture - it then allows a Character determined by the particular Opportunity Type to take advantage of the opportunity, expending willpower to shape it into an event of their choice. If they decline it then asks the next down if they want to, etc - their are also several mechanics to usurp this option if certain conditions are met, such as in the picture above where Firebrand allows a Character to usurp a Political opportunity if Unrest is > 150.

These events are powerful, giving immediate results as well as adding a permanent modifier that lasts until this location next triggers that same type of opportunity. In addition if that area is a Cultural Center it applies a Cultural modifier to the entire culture.

This allows the player to have much more flexibility in "playing against the cultures," and creates a natural way for these displaced activities to be added back into the game meaningfully. Hand in hand with crises I'm confident that the majority of the lost functionality is retained.

Once again, I am sorry a thousand times over for how long this process has gone on for. While it is has been a very rough experience for me, I am proud of what the game has become and I'll do my best to make amends through continued support and development post release.

Any backer content submitted prior to this year has been added (with the exception of two of the backer agents), and I'll be engaging with the rest of the backers after this release to begin a next phase of backer content additions.

From 20 minutes ago.
 

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