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Vapourware That Which Sleeps - Vaporware Strategy RP

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Kem0sabe, Aug 4, 2014.

  1. col2071 Novice

    col2071
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    Hey quick question for alpha testers - in the last KS update Josh promised he's now implemented at least 6 different underground soil types which have meaningful impact on gameplay; I'm just wondering if you could clarify which soils made it into the alpha or at least whether he's using the USGS or UNESCO Soil Map classification systems for balancing?

    I mean I've pulled the following from Joe's original design doc and can see where they're heading, but it all depends on which soils have been implemented for an alpha to even be worth it. We need to make sure at least Spodosols and Aridisols are in the game with a GUI overlay for Clay, Silt, and Loam content on the 3D map before rushing into anything unwarranted like, say, any actual gameplay videos or playtesting.

    Besides for us savvy "mod tier" backers the Mod Tools release is only 30 months behind schedule, so when it comes out I am totally modding in everything on the USGS soil texture grid above 40% silt separates.

    https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb1044818.pdf

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Lithium Flower Arcane

    Lithium Flower
    Joined:
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    As far as I know sand, loam, and clay are present but I have no idea about the classification systems. Do you have an autism or something? Because let's be honest, content is far from the priority issue in an alpha. Yeah there are only three out of the six planned soils (with a dozen more promised after released) and yeah, that is pretty sparse for my tastes, but its not like there aren't major technical and balancing issues to consider. For example, actually using the underground map and its mechanics. Really only Moloch is going to be getting much use out of it, the rest of the ancient evils can safely ignore it (in fact, wasting time in the underground seems to be really costly for them with little to no gains). That is an entire complicated system that is only relevant to one character - a massive balancing problem, that. No wonder Josh took his sweet time. Its like he coded a whole new different game for each character.

    Can anyone shine some light on the game's metaplot? After beating the North Burns map twice as Belial I got a splashscreen before getting kicked to the main menu. It was just a big bold "THE WRETCH RETURNS" text and a series of signs (couldn't recognize any, a lot of inverted triangles and hieroglyphics-looking symbols) on a plain black background. Is there some sort of narrative that is meant to tie the individual playthroughs together? Or is it this game's way of letting me know I've unlocked an achievement or something?

    Oh, a note to the skeptics - the lack of gameplay videos is due to the NDA. This is a closed alpha, after all.
     
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  3. Space Satan Arcane

    Space Satan
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    Good news we are out of alpha and in full beta testing. Music and art being added and game mechanics finalized.
     
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  4. kazgar Arcane

    kazgar
    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Errrrrr

    Show Spoiler

    Update
    2 Comments
    "" data-evaluation="true">
    "" data-evaluation="true">
    3 likes
    I'll have some release information for everyone soon, but in the meantime let's take a look at some screenshots of the latest build - there's been a variety of tweaks to the main map interface that, while each is fairly minor, adds up to a different experience when playing the game.

    First a comparison between the three non-strategic levels of zoom.

    [​IMG]




    The closest level of zoom hides dynamic connections, displays roads, and can show Activities in full detail. It also prioritizes tooltips for Modifiers.

    [​IMG]




    The second level of zoom prioritizes highlights, quests, and other map elements that exist above modifiers.

    [​IMG]




    The third level expands military information and conceals any display elements that may interfere with strategic planning.

    As for what you're seeing on the map you have the locations themselves which now display two radial progress bars: the left side for Crises, the right for the highest priority activity. The bottom bar is for Resolve, which I'll talk about later (and is the last replacement element for the old AI system), and also represents Siege strength during a siege.

    Armies now have a colored radial selector beneath them - green indicates an army you have no control over, yellow indicates you may be able to influence them, and red is an army you have direct control over.

    Infiltration is now shown via a simple red orb above the Location strength if infiltration is present, and that orb is used consistently on all displays to indicate the presence of infiltration. Infiltration is no longer color coded but instead there are icons that will represent what assets you have gained through infiltration, and they are displayed on the quick location display (the upper right) in a list at the bottom of the display. In the images above the Location's Religious Organizations and Institutions have been infiltrated.

    Clues are shown on the Location display, with colors for each - they are displayed the upper right of the main Location strength display. They do not change to reflect amount or strength, just the presence of a clue type.

    Crises are more definitively graphically split so that their effects layer better on the map without obscuring other details, on the map above you can see a red inner circle on the Locations with Unrest > 150, as well as sparse lightning in the region where Wild Magic is > 150. The red rippling in the wake of combat indicate Lost Spirits > 150 - intensity for each crisis increases as they approach the critical value of 300.

    Sprawl no longer creates along splines, there was a variety of reasons for this but now it not only represents the locations better but also makes it easier to make more important objects well defined on the map. The only objects that still form along the splines are fortifications. Sprawl more accurately reflects the makeup of the location and depicts institutions, temples, trade, and other mundane buildings as well as Major Highlights.

    Dynamic connections use only one material (dotted line) instead of the various others used prior, this is for optimization purposes and I don't really feel that using just one type and several colors detracts from reading the map.

    Naval Routes are only displayed when selecting the Location to avoid clutter on the map, though the trade ships traveling between them run always. Major Naval Routes are still always, but are no longer defined by value of trade but instead connecting two Markets.

    Quest markers are standardized into four pulsating objects representing Martial, Culture, Lore, and Political - you can see the Martial Quest marker on the map in red to the left.

    Most significantly is the new method of visualizing Creature Modifiers - the colored orbs around the map are any creature with strength > 150. As they get closer to 300 the orbs will pulsate. Creature Modifiers are shown in one of four colors representing what type of action they take when they reach 300 - Red for Martial, Blue for Lore, Green for Passive, Purple for "other." This allows the player to keep track of opportunities emerging passively without it overwhelming the map. You can still enable the more traditional Icon and Strength look by clicking on the map options buttons.

    [​IMG]


    Highlights like Major Ruins in the picture above have been given more illustrative mouseover windows in order to keep players "on the map" as much as possible without having to dig through the menus. All Highlight windows will show Adventuring Groups (if detected by you) present at the location.

    Not the crossed swords icon on the map, that represents an "Adventuring Group" or "Expedition" on the map. Also note the twisted tentacle along the edge of several of the locations, this indicates that an Overlord controls this location.

    [​IMG]


    While major ruins are generally static on the map, many Highlights are not - like the Gathering type shown above. This particular gathering is an attempt to raise the intervention and resolve of the Elves by the Seven. In most meetings of this sort (Peace Summits being by far the most common) the blue bar represents the positive result and the red represents "Discord" raised by participants disliking one another. There are many methods to either raise discord or simply cause havoc with your agents.

    Also on this map you can see a Node (Site of Power) which emanates the Veins of Limos. They are the primary means of accumulating Primal Power.

    [​IMG]


    Here's a shot with all of the optional menus enabled, as well as a Modifier Mouseover Window. Note the sword in the Modifier window, this signifies that this Creature Modifier has a leader, which can either be left to increase the Creature Modifier's performance or can be recruited as a minion or elite unit (depending on the Creature).

    In the upper left is the Army display, which hasn't changed much - it allows you to filter through the nations in which you have direct control over at least one army. In the lower left is the "Lurking" window which tracks Characters, Locations, and Modifiers that you have selected. For Locations and Modifier it just helps you keep track of them, but for Characters you can select to have your assets either Impede or Harm these Characters if able, though both options come with a large profile cost to your assets generally leading to their loss.

    In the upper right is the news tab, works generally as you might expect - each word in bold is a link the relevant character/location/object.

    Also worth mentioning on this image is the camps surrounding the Orc Horde - Hordes cannot Levee or raise large armies as other Army Types, but they can "Call Hordes" over time to their Location, and then launch a massive Horde far over their base army size. These armies must be in near constant combat or face massive attrition.

    [​IMG]




    The final image I wanted to show today was of a Resolve Event, called an Opportunity (the events that occur during your challenges are now called "Encounters"). With the loss of the metadata based AI system I've been working hard to preserve the functionality and flow of the game, and one of the final elements was handling the "Exceptional" actions that leaders could take - where prior they were limited by the nature of the system they now required a more traditional method of allowing access to and restriction from overuse.

    I didn't want to create another currency for their use, and draining willpower is already an integral part of the process - instead I wanted it to still tie in somewhat to how the world was "flowing" as the previous system did. To do this I added in Resolve/Spirit, which reflects the "passion" of the culture - some cultures respond well to militaristic campaigns and will have their resolve rise significantly, others may responds to scientific developments or the threat of an unknown evil. Resolve/Spirit adds its value to each Location every turn and when they reach 300 the Location triggers an Opportunity based on the Culture - it then allows a Character determined by the particular Opportunity Type to take advantage of the opportunity, expending willpower to shape it into an event of their choice. If they decline it then asks the next down if they want to, etc - their are also several mechanics to usurp this option if certain conditions are met, such as in the picture above where Firebrand allows a Character to usurp a Political opportunity if Unrest is > 150.

    These events are powerful, giving immediate results as well as adding a permanent modifier that lasts until this location next triggers that same type of opportunity. In addition if that area is a Cultural Center it applies a Cultural modifier to the entire culture.

    This allows the player to have much more flexibility in "playing against the cultures," and creates a natural way for these displaced activities to be added back into the game meaningfully. Hand in hand with crises I'm confident that the majority of the lost functionality is retained.

    Once again, I am sorry a thousand times over for how long this process has gone on for. While it is has been a very rough experience for me, I am proud of what the game has become and I'll do my best to make amends through continued support and development post release.

    Any backer content submitted prior to this year has been added (with the exception of two of the backer agents), and I'll be engaging with the rest of the backers after this release to begin a next phase of backer content additions.



    From 20 minutes ago.
     
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  5. Rahdulan Arcane Patron

    Rahdulan
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    4,357
    This game. This fucking game.
     
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  6. thesheeep Arcane Patron

    thesheeep
    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Jaedar Arcane Patron

    Jaedar
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    6,659
    Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Only 17 kiloissues left.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  8. Beowulf Arcane

    Beowulf
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1,498
  9. Galdred Studio Draconis Patron Developer

    Galdred
    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Messages:
    3,215
    Location:
    Middle Empire
    you'd need a zombie horse for this one!
     
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  10. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
    Joined:
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    Location:
    Ingrija
    That should convince the unbelievers.
     
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  11. thesheeep Arcane Patron

    thesheeep
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    Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    A zombie horse would actually be doing something. Maybe a poltergeist?
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
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  12. Space Satan Arcane

    Space Satan
    Joined:
    May 13, 2013
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    Space Hell
    Which is better, Turn-based zombie horse or Real-Time with Pause zombie horse?
     
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  13. Space Satan Arcane

    Space Satan
    Joined:
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    Location:
    Space Hell
    With recent Grimoire microissues TWS is pushed back and Cleve once again takes the lead. Godspeed, Cleve, godspeed!
     
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  14. Space Satan Arcane

    Space Satan
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    Cleve won
    :hero:
     
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  15. hivemind Guest

    hivemind
    don't worry the alpha testing is going forward very well

    just got a patch that fixed a shitload of bugs and added some fun new experimental features, this is gonna be a legendary game once it is released while grimoire is already pretty much forgotten
     
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  16. LESS T_T Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    LESS T_T
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    12,156
    Codex 2014
    Chinese indie swoops in, making a casual version of elder god simulator, Elder Chaos:



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    (Yeah, they make mobile games.)

    It doesn't look sexy as TWS seemed to be, but hey, it's coming this month!

    They even got this on store page in case you don't know how to use its complex UI:

     
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  17. thesheeep Arcane Patron

    thesheeep
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    Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    That's more than just rubbing a little salt into the wound :lol:

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. kazgar Arcane

    kazgar
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,163
    Location:
    Upside Down
    That Which Sleeps



    Going forward I will be posting a video every week until release, please keep your eyes on the YouTube channel for updates as I move forward. I understand the healthy skepticism you may feel towards that statement and respect it.

    I apologize for the silence - I haven't dealt with the defects both in development and in design in a respectful or professional manner. I've essentially put four years of my life into this game and the setbacks that recur have felt crippling at times and I turn inward as a coping method.

    The game is in a good state - it's complex, polished, and rich with content. I'll be working hard to get it out to you as soon as possible.

    Design wise obviously a lot of things have changed. The major changes have been gating challenges behind Local Assets and with Profile being fluid. I'll write up a full description of the mechanics and the implications they create/solve in the next update.
     
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  19. D_X Arcane Patron

    D_X
    Joined:
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    Messages:
    3,287
    Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Will the game ship with a bridge included? Asking for a friend.
     
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  20. Lithium Flower Arcane

    Lithium Flower
    Joined:
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    I don't understand.
     
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  21. D_X Arcane Patron

    D_X
    Joined:
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    3,287
    Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    It's the next Grimoire, fool. Better start on that life prolonging lifestyle because the beta is coming out Thursday 2050.
     
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  22. Jimmious Arcane Patron

    Jimmious
    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
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    I love how casually the update was presented, like nothing ever happened
     
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  23. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,411
    I thought this was a prank. Isn't this just someone photoshopping shit together as a joke?
     
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  24. Jinn Arcane

    Jinn
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,051
    He's playing it, that's for sure. And it looks good. Such a cock-tease.
     
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  25. Ninjerk Arcane

    Ninjerk
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Messages:
    13,064
    Will it release with a cloth map?
     
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