Vapourware That Which Sleeps - Vaporware Strategy RP

[Space Satan]

Dominions 5 have an AI? The more you know...

 

[thesheeep]

Dominions 5 AI

Shit.


AI in Dominions is akin to playing with bots in auld-school fps. You do it for training and testing your derp strategy of the week. Just join one of the various Decline games here in the playground. Best game ever!

Nobody would expect really good AI in a game as complex as Dominions.
It has only ever needed, and will likely never get, some basic diplomacy due to dev laziness.
That would make it good enough for some solo plays.

A potential game like That Which Vapours would require an AI that behaves more like a Game Master, analyzing the situation and "orchestrating" the world, a bit similar to how the AI behaves in Left 4 Dead or Vermintide.

 

[Matalarata]

Oh, I agree! Basic diplo would make Dominions AI so much better. It would still be shit though

You know it enough to understand, is all about creating an asymmetric environment that's impossible to predict with accuracy. Hell, I usually need about 12 turns just to have a vague idea of my closest neighbours build, in each new game.

Due to its nature, Dominions is not prone to algorithms. Imagine an enormous ball of chaff, ~2000 units or more, the AI would give it "weight" and consider it a sizeable force. A single mage (much lower weight) casting earthquake x 3 will erase them. But what happens if you teleport a thug specifically decked to deal with the mage? Magic movement is processed before normal movement, your thug would stop the mage and now those 2000 are effectively a sizeable force, maybe because they can lay siege and storm a castle in a single turn or whatever.

Programming an AI that could deal with the interaction between thousands of different units, hundreds of spells and almost as many different artifacts is simply beyond the scope of the game and probably beyond human possibilities atm. The AI is braindead in front of human creativity and rising the difficulty level only gives it humongous bonus to production, it even goes above recruitment limits per turn. You can deal with it if you know what you're doing but it's a chore and it will do little to prepare you for multiplayer.

 

[Space Satan]

TWS devs should go for Dominions developement approach. Release half-ased shit and grab money now, then promise to fix it later and in fact release a sequel. Repeat ad infinitum.

 

[Dayyālu]

TWS devs should go for Dominions developement approach. Release half-ased shit and grab money now, then promise to fix it later and in fact release a sequel. Repeat ad infinitum.

The fun thing is that the Dominions devs do it for fun. They have a Real Job and thingies, Dominions is on purpose made to fit their own view of "fun" (if you read their intros in the manuals, they had entire games that they built only for themselves, like Trade&Taint and some Space4x).

They never "promised to fix shit". If releasing a new nation of Black Greek DemiGods is more fun for them, they'll do that instead of trying to develop a semi-workable AI. I would be very curious about a Dominions AI: even for diplomatic purposes.

They are weirdos. I still like them.

 

[Matalarata]

Dominions is like a board game. A board game with such complexity you need cpu assistance to process everything. It stays in it's own category, comparing it to anything else is, quite frankly, pointless.

I challenge you to find anyone playing the game on a regular basis to confirm it's a cash grab or half-assed. Lots of people try it and decide it's not their thing, that's fine.

Asymetric? Sure. Unbalanced? As fuck. Caothic? Yep. And that's why Trump won we love it!

 

[Malakal]

There is no need for a great or even good AI as long as the gameplay is asymmetric. The player plays by different rules than the world and that simplifies things a lot.

 

[Iwannabearock]

I need this, where is my weekly video??? =(

 

[hivemind]

sorry with exams coming up it has been hard to keep up with proper playtesting so the devs have decided to ease up on the promotional content a bit

 

[Space Satan]

This week video was jolly good. Game is shaping pretty good!

 

[Agesilaus]

I wonder if they'll even manage to release the full version before Darghul 2 hits the market.

 

[hivemind]

before Darghul 2 hits the market.

Wait, you arent on the Darghul alpha newsletter?

 

[Shackleton]

I just love the way after all this time, there is still a 'maybe' in the thread title. Yeah, it might NOT be a scam, you never know!

 

[thesheeep]

I just love the way after all this time, there is still a 'maybe' in the thread title. Yeah, it might NOT be a scam, you never know!

Well, I think it isn't quite clear if a scam requires the intention to scam.
And if it does, if that was the intention all along or just the result of a delusional mind.

The biggest mystery is why the "developer" tried to uphold the facade as long as he did.
Granted, there are still a few complete idiots in the KS comments that still believe this will one day exist.
But there was no monetary incentive to keep on pretending, thus I believe this whole ordeal might simply be the result of madness. How very meta.

 

[barker_s]

thesheeep

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project? Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

So it basically boils down to this - if he openly admits that he is unable to complete the project he's toast. It only takes a fancy video or a few screenshots twice or thrice a year to keep his ass out of trouble and allow him to keep all that sweet backer money.

 

[thesheeep]

barker_s Considering that MANY KS projects did not fulfill their promises and that none of them have been hit with a large number of refunds - after all, KS doesn't support this in any way, they just say backers can take legal action - I really don't think that is the reason.
They also are not liable personally, but formed a legal entity in all likelyhood. So even if they got sued, they can say "all the money is gone, sorry!" and backers wouldn't gain anything.
You also have to consider that 90% of backers have probably forgotten entirely about it to begin with

Suing or refunding early after a campaign is somewhat realistic, but for this project we're years past that point.

 

[Turtle-Zone 3000]

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169949.0

Looks like the failure to release TWS has lead to this attempt at the concept.

 

[Dayyālu]

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169949.0

Looks like the failure to release TWS has lead to this attempt at the concept.

Isn't this the second attempt? There was another one, it had a peculiar art style.

Found it:

https://bobbytwohands.itch.io/shadows-behind-the-throne

 

[Iwannabearock]

Any one here knows how if there is a way to win with an orc horde? It's almost imposible to control after a few turns and also if it grows to much it leaves too many clues and the heroes discover immediately my existence.... they should patch that =(

 

[almondblight]

Any one here knows how if there is a way to win with an orc horde? It's almost imposible to control after a few turns and also if it grows to much it leaves too many clues and the heroes discover immediately my existence.... they should patch that =(

Which alpha are you using? In the recent ones bogs and fens have decent concealment scores (swamps too, but if you get a disease outbreak it can really mess up your horde). If you've corrupted the woodland elves, olde forest is even better.

 

[Iwannabearock]

My computer doesn't allow me to watch the weekly videos, how many have there been after the March one?
Can anyone describe what happened in the other videos?

 

[BrotherFrank]

I swear the only reason people still post here is so I can get a notification to remind me of my unwise financial investments and broken dreams.

 

[Space Satan]

Another year, another satisfied kickstarter investors.

 

[Viata]

I like the "maybe" in the thread name.

 

[Haba]

The latest build was pretty mind-blowing.