Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[Lacrymas]

I have a question related to dual-classing. Can I dual-class a Berserker into Druid and dual-wield scimitars with Grand Mastery? Seems like a pretty cool concept.

 

[nobre]

I have a question related to dual-classing. Can I dual-class a Berserker into Druid and dual-wield scimitars with Grand Mastery? Seems like a pretty cool concept.

Yes you can. But you know what's awesome? Kensai -> Druid, with your Iron Skin spell compensating for the lack of armor.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yes you can. But you know what's awesome? Kensai -> Druid, with your Iron Skin spell compensating for the lack of armor.

I thought about that too, but is it worth losing immunity to all sorts of things and ability to use armor/helms/bracers for Kai? It also depends when you dual-class, as a level 7 Kensai will get the same bonuses as the Berserker rage, while a lvl 9 Kensai will get +1 more, but Helm of Balduran already negates that advantage. And you can use Iron Skins when wearing plate armor, sooo.

 

[Theldaran]

They say plain Kensai is a good character either way.

Kensai isn't a tank. It's a killing machine. Just make them drop dead before they do the same to you.

 

[nikolokolus]

Kensai is a decent kit if you are starting out in BG2, but can be kind of squishy because of the armor, helm and shield restrictions if you are playing BGT and start out in BG1 (at least until you can get the Shield Amulet and a decent pair of bracers). In the past , whenever I took a fighter kit for the first class of a dual-class character that's only going to level 9 (usually) it's tough to beat the immunities of the berserker's rage ability for things like fighting undead or casters. Spec daggers or axes and the ranged weapon restrictions don't matter too much either. That said, just about any dual-class zerker/kensai combo can be ridiculously overpowered at high level.

 

[Lacrymas]

Kensai can't use bracers either. I decided I'll go with the zerker combo when I'm itching to play BG again.

 

[Cael]

Kensai can't use bracers either. I decided I'll go with the zerker combo when I'm itching to play BG again.

Zerkers mesh better with Cleric due to both being able to wear heavy armour.

I believe that Kensai can wear mage robes once you dual over, but that is a long way away.

If you want to play a multiclass Kensai/mage from level 1 just make a fighter/mage and put in the kit via EEKeeper or something like that.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm going Zerker/Druid for the coolness factor, not any sort of mage.

 

[Cael]

I'm going Zerker/Druid for the coolness factor, not any sort of mage.

That works, too. Hilariously, the fighter component allows you to use any armour but not weapons in BG, which is the complete opposite of how it should be (use any weapon but restricted armour).

 

[Apostle Hand]

if you make multi kensai mage through ee keeper you lose kai ability.

i would suggest playing blackguard kit, it is often overlooked and has some powerful abilities.

 

[Lacrymas]

Paladins can't dual-class and are usually pretty boring to play as an MC in the IE games.

 

[Cael]

Paladins can't dual-class and are usually pretty boring to play as an MC in the IE games.

Mainly because whatever the Paladin can do, the Fighter/Cleric can do far better.

 

[McPlusle]

I think I've rendered Waukeen's Promenade completely inaccessible. My rep is 9 so I don't think it's because I broke the law or something, and no guards in other districts attack me. For some reason every time I travel to WP I come in from the same angle (northeast entrance) and there's a mage and like three guys in full-plate that attack on sight, and if I defend myself (without using magic) Cowled Wizards show up and attack me too. Did I fuck up somewhere? This didn't happen last time I played BG2.

 

[Lilura]

Five new posts on BG reactivity:

• Reactivity in Baldur's Gate, Part I: Infiltration of the Bandit Camp

• Reactivity in Baldur's Gate, Part II: Reputational Reactivity

• Reactivity in Baldur's Gate, Part III: Reaction-based Reactivity

• Reactivity in Baldur's Gate, Part IV: Companion-based reactivity: Factional Rivalry

• Reactivity in Baldur's Gate, Part V: Companion-based reactivity: Personality Clashes

Enjoy.

 

[zapotec]

I can't find nothing on google, but why most of the female portrait in Baldur's gate 2 had that dreadlock hair thing?

 

[MajorMace]

- you stewpid dwarf
- no you
- i hate your guts, you good dwarf
- i can't bear your sight, you evil dwarf

10/10

 

[Cael]

I can't find nothing on google, but why most of the female portrait in Baldur's gate 2 had that dreadlock hair thing?

I don't know what you are talking about, good sir. These are some of the female portraits I have in my copy of BG/BG2:

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I can't find nothing on google, but why most of the female portrait in Baldur's gate 2 had that dreadlock hair thing?

Bg2 portraits in general were horrendous

 

[MajorMace]

How could I be butthurt Lilura, this piece of dialog is hilarious.
Tolkien dwarf vs Greedy dwarf go at each other because they both can't stand how the other one's a walking cliché.

Now if I had to criticize your article -
This "gameplay reactivity" you talk about "doesn't actually amount to anything" as you write it yourself.
People who play this game are perfectly aware it doesn't actually feature several ways to complete quests - the bandit camp being an exception, and not a shining one since it ends up in a bloodshed in the tent anyway...
As you put it, BG's reactivity is "gameplay reactivity". But what does that actually entail ? BG is a party-based hack n slash. The point of the game is to murder stuff and accumulate riches and renown.
In this regard, having your party desintegrated because you didn't pay attention to the fact that Ajantis doesn't like Evil, is quite annoying. Also I don't believe for a second that anyone wouldn't realise that this fucking paladin is a fucking paladin.
Now I demand to see. I demand to see anyone who encounters such a situation without specifically pushing for it, for the sole purpose of tinkering with party banters. Which as you put it, are pretty bland anyway.

This piece of dialog between both dwarves - I had never seen it after 10-ish playthroughs. For the simple reason that I perfectly know they don't get along.
Why on earth would anyone experience these infighting moments past the first one they encounter in the game (either Jaheira/Montaro or Minsc/Edwin). These moments mean your party is to be rebuilt, the stuff of the dead picked up (if you have the strength for it) and a replacement found. None of this is good gameplay.
Nobody does that. People plan ahead now, and build a party that works - and they do this, specifically because it's a chore to have to rebuild a dismantled party. So, even if I love the idea on paper - these extreme situations where members of the group don't get along don't actually strike me as particularly good reactivity. But moreover, you never really witness it past the first "mistake" you make.

Last critic : you missed the opportunity to outline the best interaction in the game, Edwin and Alora. Which also finds echo in BG2 with Edwin and Mazzy.

At the end of the day - BG's "reactivity" is extremely scarce and, most of the time, unefficient.
It DOES showcase a certain attention to details - that I can appreciate - but it's a one-time thing, and doesn't actually have any impact on the actual gameplay. Which is why, in my book, this can't be flagged as good "gameplay reactivity".

 

[Lacrymas]

Well, the reputation-based Bhaalspawn abilities you get directly influence the gameplay. The rivalries also affect gameplay, you yourself are saying you plan ahead what your party is going to be because there's going to be infighting. That means it directly pertains to the classes of the characters you bring along and their stats. That's a direct gameplay benefit without being overt or easily recognized, yet it vastly changed the experience. Evil companions are usually (with the exception of Coran and maybe Imoen as Thief/Mage) more powerful than the good ones, this is a great choice Bioware have made, while they didn't make the reactions to various reputations and party-compositions extreme enough and made them too easy to game (killing innocents, donating to temples), it's still a good idea that should've been picked up by future games. You get less rewards and quests from people, thus less xp, but you are compensated by the OPness of the evil companions. They just shouldn't have included the temples and losing rep by killing innocents, even if it makes sense. They also should've barred a bunch of quests (or substituted them) for evil parties, I sure wouldn't give a trivial quest to a party of a lunatic, a sketchy looking halfling, a drow and a red wizard of Thay.

Has any other game done this? I don't think so, especially not nu-Bioware.

 

[Lilura]

1. Never said BG's reactivity was top-tier or mind-blowingly awesome. Just because I cover something, doesn't mean I think it's the best.

2. The friendly exchanges between Edwin and Alora are nothing special. Yeslick/Kagain, Edwin/Dynaheir, Harper/Zhent, these are all more notable and impacting than trivial flavor exchanges that go nowhere.

You're trying too hard to criticize my write-ups, typical of newfags. You and Xeon are just butthurt because you never thought of this stuff before you read it on my blog.

 

[MajorMace]

Lacrymas
I didn't write it doesn't affect the gameplay, I wrote it doesn't affect it in a meaningful or satisfying way.
Whether I get cure wounds or larloch's drain, I don't care - I built a fighter. I'm to smack things down. Why doesn't the game acknowledge that instead ?

The fact i have to plan ahead doesn't really qualify as a good thing. It's a mere step before character creation.
It'd be interesting if it had gameplat implications : it doesn't, I'm still gonna build a frontliner or two, a thief, a healer and a caster or two. *shrug emote*

BG handles the good/evil path well - if we deliberately forget that the flaming fist scripted to smack you down whenever you get too low a reputation - for whatever reason - is dogshit.
And if we're to consider that a game designed around "good" and "evil" is any good to begin with. D&D gets a pass, because it's D&D.. huh...
Now let's be serious a second, Lacrymas : the good way to handle good/evil paths in BG would have been to - you know - include some... hum how is that called again... oh yeah some reactivity to this in the main questline.

If you'd show the same tolerance to stupid design choices today, you'd be amazed every year.
Deadfire offers companion relationships which depend on choices made in the first game, which can decide if a companion is pro or anti-somthing, and completely redefine his relationship with another dude, ranging from cordial relation to sheer hatred.
WOW® NOBODY HAS EVER DONE THAT !
NOBODY HAS EVER DONE THAT IN THE HISTORY OF DOTA CRPGS !

Anybody who played deadfire knows it's actually bland and uninteresting, and it doesn't affect the gameplay in any meaningful way.
At least I don't have to check who wants to murder whom there, people just leave at the end if you don't pick their faction - who would have known deadfire had so much "gameplay reactivity" ?

typical of newfags

hehe oh wow

The friendly exchanges between Edwin and Alora are nothing special. Yeslick/Kagain, Edwin/Dynaheir, Harper/Zhent, these are all more notable and impacting than two exchanges that amount to seven lines of dialogue that go nowhere.

Way to prove you're talking out of your ass then. You had the occasion to show that the game features other relationships but obvious and cliché ones. Well, whatever.
It only matters if they fight to death hurr. Why, just reload and go for another party. It's dumb.

ps : you never said bg's reactivity was mind blowing indeed. You merely wrote a 5-part piece about it.

 

[Lacrymas]

Except you are thinking of narrative reactivity, while BG offers gameplay such. It doesn't matter when the decision is made, it's still a wildly different experience depending on your party composition, both in terms of "atmosphere" and gameplay. You *are* making a choice due to the reactivity of the game, a pretty big one. It also affects the difficulty, as playing with a good party is harder due to them being shittier in terms of stats. Deadfire's companions are all terrible and their writing is mediocre at best, making whatever complicated relationship systems they have trivial. So, yes, BG's rivalries/reactivity do affect gameplay in a meaningful way, perhaps the most meaningful in an RPG ever.

 

[Lilura]

It only matters if they fight to death hurr. Why, just reload and go for another party. It's dumb.

God, you're such a dickhead.

ps : you never said bg's reactivity was mind blowing indeed. You merely wrote a 5-part piece about it.

Yes, because I'm the leading commentator for Infinity. I also offered criticism. That's declared in 1st paragraph. Lrn2read. Also, it's projected to 10 write-ups.

 

[MajorMace]

Except you are thinking of narrative reactivity, while BG offers gameplay such. It doesn't matter when the decision is made, it's still a wildly different experience depending on your party composition, both in terms of "atmosphere" and gameplay. You *are* making a choice due to the reactivity of the game, a pretty big one. It also affects the difficulty, as playing with a good party is harder due to them being shittier in terms of stats.

Yeah...
Actually no. It has no implication at all, and the gameplay doesn't change one bit. And you know it.
Viconia and Edwin don't make the game easier, at the end of the day I'll just equip the gauntlets *shrug*

Lilura Do you want feedback or not ?

So, yes, BG's rivalries/reactivity do affect gameplay in a meaningful way, perhaps the most meaningful in an RPG ever.

Alright i'm out of here, that's just nonsense.
About a game everybody has played. Which means everybody perfectly knows that's bullshit.
That's embarassing.

You're starting to make me dislike my favourite ie game out of sheer association process with your bullshit. I hate you.

ps : deadfire having shit writing doesn't change the fact that it has more "gameplay reactivity" intricacies than BG. Cheers.