Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

if you scream even louder maybe they'll understand you

Unlikely.

Your mom was memorable.

Your mom wasn't.

 

[NecroLord]

Equalizer - that was the troll weapon...

The alignment sword?
Also provides immunity to charm and confusion.
Pretty good offhand weapon, I think it provides that bonus damage even to your main weapon!

 

[jackofshadows]

Guys it seems to me you're comparing playing it while you were still dumb kids. I too thought once Fallout is difficult. The more you play these games the better you know where to look for shit.

Depends. In the original game, there was no key to highlight searchable items. You had to pixel hunt the whole map or figure it out from one NPC's hint if you wanted to find the Ring of Wizardry.

But AGAIN: Memorable. That's the standard. Read the post were I was talking about getting your first +2 sword (before the mines). It's not loot drops from trash mobs. That's all I'm saying.

Memorable for kids, yes. That's indeed my point. As for items, the same for Fallout. Some people still have no idea Vault 15 has hunting rifle for example. Why? Because they're playing that as kids. The last time I was playing, I just had to check "hidden" walls etc. Easy. Then again, Fallout is a mere example, it's all about patterns and thinking about the way devs were thinking.

I agree with you of course it is a better way to place loot instead of putting it in a drop tables like it's a fucking MMO we're talking about here.

 

[Cael]

I needed to read a guide back then.

Yes, if you look up a guide, you can find the cheese ring that lets mages cast double spells, and you can use a summoning wand to cheese Drizzt (and half the fights in the game) and het his magic armor and swords. You can look up where to find the stat tomes.

But that's you metagaming and ruining an already easy game by making it easier with external knowledge. It's not the same as trash mobs dropping magic weapons like at the start of NWN OC.

But the magic items are there, and in the first parts of the game.

They aren't dropping like candy from every other enemy. That's my point.

Memorable. That's the standard. Read the post were I was talking about getting your first +2 sword (before the mines). It's not loot drops from trash mobs. That's all I'm saying.

The cursed berserker sword is +3, and you can get that before the mines too. But where do you get it? How? We all remember because it's from a memorable quest.

You know what I don't remember? What my first magic sword in NWN was. Or even the first magic weapon I found in BG3. It all blends together, since it was so common and it dropped from so many no name NPCs.

And once you come out of the mines, you can get even more +1 gear (and some +2) thrown at you. That's not even half way through the game.

The fight when you come out of the mines has dialog and named NPCs attached to it. It was also after what might have been a hard fight for new players. It was designed to be a bit of a tougher encounter and rewarded the player for it.

See, I remember that fight and most of the loot I got from it. I don't remember it because the items were so good. I remember it because of the situation, because of the dialog with the NPCs, and because I wasn't bombarded with magic items from the 100 kobolds, gibberlings, gnolls, orcs and ogres I'd killed before then.

If you play the NWN OC as it is intended (i.e., start at level 1), the first +1 weapon you get is one of the minibosses at the end of one of the four sections. That was how I remembered it as I was looking for +1 weapons to complete the blacksmith recipe.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

It's probably been close to 20 years since I've picked it up. I just remember seeing a lot of them early on and being disappointed.

 

[Krivol]

I think it provides that bonus damage even to your main weapon!

Sounds like a bug to me, yet I have never tried it...

Anyway, there were a billion better options for off/main hand.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

If the player sticks to the plot, their first opportunity for a significant magical weapon will be Varscona if they dare fight Greywolf. For a party of L2 characters, this has a great chance of TPK unless they found some of the pixel hunt stashes. Otherwise, magical items of the +1 variety really only show up at the end of chapter 2 when Mulahey is defeated.

Most players on their first run will have this kind of experience. There are some other items that can be found sooner, but they're minor and require thr player to risk deadly encounters far from the plot path. Searching for the bandit camp in Chapter 3 is when all of that is supposed to happen.

 

[Hydro]

If the player sticks to the plot, their first opportunity for a significant magical weapon will be Varscona if they dare fight Greywolf. For a party of L2 characters, this has a great chance of TPK unless they found some of the pixel hunt stashes. Otherwise, magical items of the +1 variety really only show up at the end of chapter 2 when Mulahey is defeated.

Most players on their first run will have this kind of experience. There are some other items that can be found sooner, but they're minor and require thr player to risk deadly encounters far from the plot path. Searching for the bandit camp in Chapter 3 is when all of that is supposed to happen.

iirc there’s also another encounter at the Firewine bridge with a swordmaster who has the +2 longsword and some other pretty cool stuff

 

[Krivol]

Firewine bridge with a swordmaster who has the +2 longsword

His sword is just +1, but yes, other stuff is decent.

 

[Melcar]

Firewine bridge with a swordmaster who has the +2 longsword

His sword is just +1, but yes, other stuff is decent.

+1 long sword, but he has some really powerful gauntlets for warriors.

You can lockpick the chest in the Beregost smithy for a +1 bastard sword. You can pickpocket Algernon's cloak also in Beregost.

 

[Krivol]

1st +1 2H sword can be found southeast of Beregost (ambush of a few half-orcs between two rocks, location with Xvarts attacking a cow).

Short Sword +2 and a hammer +2 are located south of High Hedge (area with Bassilus).

 

[Melcar]

One would most like not survive neither of those encounters (or even get close to their location) as a lvl1-2 character. Possible, but you had to have a good grasp of the game and mechanics. So maybe not on your first playthrough (one was more likely just to head straight to Nashkel).

 

[HumanTotemPole]

What I loved about BG1 and 2 were how relatively rare good items were in the early game. You would *remember* where you picked up a magic item in most of BG1 because every other NPC dropped junk. Even in BG2, it took a bit of time before you had a bag full of magic items.

MMO/NWN design, where you're picking up +1 and +2 items until they feel like garbage, ruins so many settings.

Agreed. One of the many reasons ToB feels so goofy compared to SoA is the glut of "plain" +2 and +3 gear in the hands of trash mobs or sold by the local barmen. Obviously necessary given the party's power level but it strains credulity given how unremarkable ToB's locations are without their resident Bhaalspawn. The mercenaries in Amkethran are particularly ridiculous.

 

[Average Manatee]

Agreed. One of the many reasons ToB feels so goofy compared to SoA is the glut of "plain" +2 and +3 gear in the hands of trash mobs or sold by the local barmen. Obviously necessary given the party's power level but it strains credulity given how unremarkable ToB's locations are without their resident Bhaalspawn. The mercenaries in Amkethran are particularly ridiculous.

I don't think that's really an issue. Most everyone you're fighting in ToB is part of the Five who are obviously extremely powerful and equipping their people well. You don't really run into trash mobs in ToB like you do in SoA. As for random barmen having +3 weapons, well when there are soldiers with +3 weapons around and someone has a big tab they can't pay, that's what they get? I don't think it really breaks immersion that much, if anything there should be random +2 and +3 weapons in BG1 just so absurdly overpriced that you could almost never afford them. To an extend it does seem silly that the barmen have a +2 and +3 for every single weapon type but that's kind of a needed gameplay concession to not screw players over.

On the other hand, unique magic equipment sold in random stores I find much more immersion breaking. Also super high level magic shops selling scrolls like Timestop. I'm not sure how you produce or obtain that stuff without some kind of expansive trade network to put together the materials and skills needed to make them. The only shop I can remember that gave me that impression was Ribald Barterman's.

 

[Arbiter]

One of the many reasons ToB feels so goofy compared to SoA is the glut of "plain" +2 and +3 gear in the hands of trash mobs or sold by the local barmen. Obviously necessary given the party's power level but it strains credulity given how unremarkable ToB's locations are without their resident Bhaalspawn. The mercenaries in Amkethran are particularly ridiculous.

Progression is a problem in many RPGs, for example FedEx quests in late game areas reward you with an order of magnitude more XP than similar simple quests in early game areas.

 

[Butter]

One of the many reasons ToB feels so goofy compared to SoA is the glut of "plain" +2 and +3 gear in the hands of trash mobs or sold by the local barmen. Obviously necessary given the party's power level but it strains credulity given how unremarkable ToB's locations are without their resident Bhaalspawn. The mercenaries in Amkethran are particularly ridiculous.

Progression is a problem in many RPGs, for example FedEx quests in late game areas reward you with an order of magnitude more XP than similar simple quests in early game areas.

Shit design if you're getting Fedex quests in the late game.

 

[HumanTotemPole]

Agreed. One of the many reasons ToB feels so goofy compared to SoA is the glut of "plain" +2 and +3 gear in the hands of trash mobs or sold by the local barmen. Obviously necessary given the party's power level but it strains credulity given how unremarkable ToB's locations are without their resident Bhaalspawn. The mercenaries in Amkethran are particularly ridiculous.

I don't think that's really an issue. Most everyone you're fighting in ToB is part of the Five who are obviously extremely powerful and equipping their people well. You don't really run into trash mobs in ToB like you do in SoA. As for random barmen having +3 weapons, well when there are soldiers with +3 weapons around and someone has a big tab they can't pay, that's what they get? I don't think it really breaks immersion that much, if anything there should be random +2 and +3 weapons in BG1 just so absurdly overpriced that you could almost never afford them. To an extend it does seem silly that the barmen have a +2 and +3 for every single weapon type but that's kind of a needed gameplay concession to not screw players over.

On the other hand, unique magic equipment sold in random stores I find much more immersion breaking. Also super high level magic shops selling scrolls like Timestop. I'm not sure how you produce or obtain that stuff without some kind of expansive trade network to put together the materials and skills needed to make them. The only shop I can remember that gave me that impression was Ribald Barterman's.

As stated I'm fine with it from a gameplay standpoint - encounter design remains king after all. Just a pity there wasn't enough time or money available to flesh out ToB a bit more. The overall presentation is underwhelming considering the world-shattering power of the beings involved.

Agree re uniques and high level scrolls in normal stores. That random dickhead in Saradush who manages a coincidental deus ex machina to Amkethran has a crazy spell selection. But I suppose needs must for that stage of the game.

Edit: You could argue Sendai's drow and Balthazar's mercenaries are trash mobs by ToB standards.

 

[The Limper]

Agreed. One of the many reasons ToB feels so goofy compared to SoA is the glut of "plain" +2 and +3 gear in the hands of trash mobs or sold by the local barmen. Obviously necessary given the party's power level but it strains credulity given how unremarkable ToB's locations are without their resident Bhaalspawn. The mercenaries in Amkethran are particularly ridiculous.

I don't think that's really an issue. Most everyone you're fighting in ToB is part of the Five who are obviously extremely powerful and equipping their people well. You don't really run into trash mobs in ToB like you do in SoA. As for random barmen having +3 weapons, well when there are soldiers with +3 weapons around and someone has a big tab they can't pay, that's what they get? I don't think it really breaks immersion that much, if anything there should be random +2 and +3 weapons in BG1 just so absurdly overpriced that you could almost never afford them. To an extend it does seem silly that the barmen have a +2 and +3 for every single weapon type but that's kind of a needed gameplay concession to not screw players over.

On the other hand, unique magic equipment sold in random stores I find much more immersion breaking. Also super high level magic shops selling scrolls like Timestop. I'm not sure how you produce or obtain that stuff without some kind of expansive trade network to put together the materials and skills needed to make them. The only shop I can remember that gave me that impression was Ribald Barterman's.

Ribald’s shop had a lot of missed potential. They should of connected more quest to it…. Alternate ways to get some of those nice items he had for sale.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

A point of order in the statement that ToB doesn't have trash mobs. Trash mobs are a central feature of ToB. The designers deliberately have tons of encounters where they throw waves of mobs at the player as to glorify their power and how far they've come. The game oscillates between this and set piece fights with hyper beings.

 

[Storyfag]

Most everyone you're fighting in ToB is part of the Five who are obviously extremely powerful and equipping their people well. You don't really run into trash mobs in ToB like you do in SoA.

Nobody should be powerful enough to equip their entire army with magical weapons, let alone +2s and +3s. And we had plenty trash mobs - Yaga-Shura's army around Saradush, Tethyrian troops after leaving Saradush, Sendai's minions, and the Amkethran mercenaries.

 

[Chippy]

Also a +1 short word in the barracks in Nashkel if nobody has mentioned it. And right at the beginning of the game you get a +1 Dagger from Fuller when you return him some crossbow bolts if your Charisma is high enough. Also Silkie in Garrick's quest has a +1 quarterstaff.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

The horror, there are a couple of magical +1 weapons in a D&D low level campaign ! How dare they shower us like that...

 

[Vic]

Also a +1 short word in the barracks in Nashkel if nobody has mentioned it. And right at the beginning of the game you get a +1 Dagger from Fuller when you return him some crossbow bolts if your Charisma is high enough. Also Silkie in Garrick's quest has a +1 quarterstaff.

popamole

 

[Melcar]

The horror, there are a couple of magical +1 weapons in a D&D low level campaign ! How dare they shower us like that...

Your characters would be like lvl 2-3 max by the time you entered Nashkel (if you bother to do minor quests along the way and farm some XP) and they can already be carrying +1 gear.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

So ?