Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[razvedchiki]

Butthertura

 

[Dzupakazul]

One thing about the Kensage is that Kai lets you maximize the benefits from Improved Haste (more attacks per round, and they all hit for max damage!) and Black Blade of Disaster, which has a massive damage spread (2-24). This can be a deal if you are abusing Time Stop tactics, as the amount of "sure" damage you're dishing out might make a difference between a kill and a "so close".

I'd say most of the zerk's qualities can be replicated by mage spells or green scrolls, though that requires more effort; knowing which of the fights puts you at risk of Maze/Imprisonment and which not. Though yeah, Berserker is generally more convenient, sturdier and universal, and you can be dual-classing away from it way earlier; I'd say Kensai benefits more from investing levels into it than Berserker (and then it depends if you value insane offense over reliability and utility), but a 13th level ex-warrior is definitely a solo/small party venture, so again, more limited.

Both are boring to play in the mid-game, multis ftw.

 

[ga♥]

In the EE you can backstab with the Staff of the Ram, not sure you can in the original since you didn't mention it?

Lilura

 

[razvedchiki]

By the way can an assassin install kill a mage with a backstab?never used backstabbing thief's.
I was considering an assasin/fighter dualed at lvl 10 but not sure if they can insta gib spellcasters.

 

[ga♥]

Depends if you use SCS and they are prebuffed (stoneskin) and how many HPs they have. Most of the times the answer is yes, even with normal thieves. Consider that my single class mage with 16 CON had less than 100 HP by the end of TOB...

 

[razvedchiki]

Yes with SCS and rogue rebalance,and not with the staff of ram I see in every other thread about backstabbing.
At least if not outright kill them the poison ticks will prevent them from spellcasting,in theory though.

 

[Dzupakazul]

can an assassin install kill a mage

only if he duals into the installation wizard

Gibbing mages is very viable, and the assassin's poison (which you can enchant ranged weaponry with) passes through Stoneskin for further mage debiliation. Even if you're playing a solo Thief and are somehow disadvantaged in the anti-magic department, a lot of the time you can just wait for already cast buffs to disappear while invisible in a corner (Rayic Gethras can be done that way, IIRC). When you get to the hardcore mages, you will have UAI and dispel spells from scrolls, Staff of the Magi backstabs for dispel on-hit, and more. Should be doable, though generally backstab-heavy playstyles are a labor of love; the whole trickery aspect of the playthrough is awesome for your own personal fantasy, but some fights can get a little tedious. Though I recall having a lot of fun with nuking Sarevok in BG1 with two super-powered Staff of Striking backstabs (it was vanilla Shar-Teel, an ex-Fighter/Thief, however).

Though frankly, a 10 level ex-Assassin/Fighter doesn't really offer that much beyond his poison and -1 THAC0 / +1 Damage rolls, because his backstab modifier is stuck at x4 -- dual at 13 instead to bump it up to x5. Might as well go Bounty Hunter/Fighter in that case (dual at 11th to get a new trap) if you want to preserve some stabby flavor while having a semblance of fun toys (still you ain't getting Maze trap, which, again, is locked at 21). Or a Stalker, since a dual-class AssFighter ain't getting UAI anyway... unless you dual at level 21. The only other Rogue that is worth dualling early than late is Swashbuckler, and a Swashbuckler (11) / Fighter can be an alright glass cannon DPS (pick up some Swashie utility and bonus shit), but then you ain't stabbing much.

Ex-Rogues are generally better with Mage, I'd say, unless you're ready to dual really, really late; Assassin levels give you more HP, THAC0, and let you hurl poisoned Melf's Minute Meteors at 5 APR (10 APR with IH), each with bonus +1 damage, regardless of how late you dual, and you always get the Mislead M/T backstab cheese. 17th level for an Assassin/Fighter, at the earliest, if you want an x6 backstab. Unless you're happy with just Poison, but that, again, seems to go against the flavor you're going for (heavy stabs). For going full on TF2 Spy, I'd just go for a multi F/T or plain Assassin for party play. For solo, Assassin (24) / Fighter or Cleric is quite potent.

Item Upgrade features a dagger called Quietus which increases backstab modifier by +1x, but whether you want IU is, of course, very debatable (only if you can leverage the increase in your power level with other mods).

Also, if you pump Detect Illusion a lot before dual, at high enough levels you essentially can use True Sight spell. Locks can be Knocked open or 25 STR bashed in, and Traps can be detected. I'm just saying this because the Assassin has to make a lot of hard choices with his meager skillpoints. Luckily there's plenty of Potions of Thieving Mastery, but for ease of use I'd just travel with someone like Imoen or Jan - dual rogues make for fun parties, too.

tl;dr because this fucking post took too long: Assassin (10) is only a good place to dual at for a bonus Poison charge but it might be better to dual at 13 for the stab; Assassin/Mage is IMHO better for lower level dualing; you have to figure out if you want to focus on poison or stabs in your playstyle to make a good assesment.

 

[Wayward Son]

My first playthrough of BG1 was a solo F/T and the final fight was... tedious, but tactically challenging and fun, if that makes any sense.

 

[Krivol]

Yeah, F/T is my favourite class - is as good as regular warrior (well, no berserk benefits, but still), but gains sneaking and backstabbing ability. Half-orc with 20 str (after finishing 1st BG) and dual wielding those weapons from Lilura's article is great. Also, with UAI he can use magic scrolls, so prebuffing is still usable by this class (sadly cleric spells are quite rare on scrolls).

 

[Anomander Rake]

Lilura thanks for these insightful posts. Any chance you could do something similar for ranger-cleric/berserker cleric?

I also have another request: i never saw people asking how a druidic dual class is.
Was wondering if you got any suggestions or insightful to share about the druid dual class, even with the illegal dual class barbarian druid (that i m really curious to try).


Btw, am i wrong thinking thay you would rate the illegal barbarian mage better than kensage?

 

[Lacrymas]

Dual from or to a Druid? Fighter/Druid multi is fine, nothing extraordinary, but it's 'k.

 

[Dzupakazul]

Berserker/Druid (and your proposed illegal Barb/Druid) is a nice dual for Iron Skins and immunity to Fear (Druid has no Remove Fear) built into Enrage. Ex-Fighter->Druid is a great build in IWD, which supports Druids greatly and has a variety of good Spears, but problem with dualing to Druid is that you need 15 Strength, 17 Wisdom and 17 Charisma, that can be a lot. I'd assume Barb/Druid could be pretty boss, you can still put Defender of Easthaven in offhand to leverage Barb physical resistance, you still have an access to self-fear removal, you move faster, etc.

Multi Druids are generally pretty good, Jaheira is a pretty solid tank.

 

[Alkarl]

Reading through this thread (and subsequently, Lilura's blog [good read btw!]) has got me itching to play this again. I have the original and TuTu versions, as well as the EE of Bg1 on my box right now. I want to go through TuTu (non-EE) but I'm not sure what to roll. I made an assassin last night, and recruited Xzar and Montarron (never finished an evil party playthrough) but I already forgot what I planned to do dual-class wise.

I've already beaten the game as a single-class sorc and fighter. Also as a dual ranger/cleric and multi fighter-mage (didnt know how to play it at the time, got relegated to a lesser fighter roll mostly). I want to try out something powerful but interesting. Was thinking Berkmage. Or a Kensai->Thief. Any suggestions?

 

[Lilura]

Baldur's Gate 2: Ranger Dual-Classes: Archer/Cleric and Stalker/Cleric

For my other six recent write-ups go here.

 

[Lacrymas]

The only point to going Stalker/Cleric instead of Thief/Cleric is having the Druid spells and specialization in quarterstaves/clubs? It seems nice, I guess, if you can stomach the long dual downtime.

EDIT: Ah, nevermind, I wiki'd it and you can get some Mage spells, too.

 

[Dzupakazul]

Beastmaster/Cleric is also quite acceptable. You basically dual-wield clubs (there's nice ones to get from early Trademeet) and later wield a staff. Beasty really isn't the best kit, but it's comfy to play in BG1 if you play TuTu/BGT/EE and very early BG2, and when you graduate into a BM/Cleric, you are alright again. Having a Familiar is nice.

Though really I'd just go for a multi R/C, they're better.

 

[Lilura]

Baldur's Gate 2: Ascension & Sword Coast Stratagems: Arcane Party Guide - Part I

 

[Colour Spray]

Entertaining write up.

I'm playing a similar party at the moment, and the planar prison is indeed a kick in the balls if you take it on too early. I ended up having to use a potion of invisibility for each party member and then re-positioning them at the opposite end of the map, because even with a fully pre-buffed party before stepping through the portal; better calls for help brings the master of thralls down on your head pretty quickly which is a little rough after you expended a lot of resources trying to deal with yuan-ti mages. I learned that trick from the improved cultists in Ulgoth's Beard kicking my ass for several hours straight.

I think better calls for help is a bit of a double edged sword in there, however. I never even got to get revenge on that master of thralls because he decided to run over a petrification trap in the end.

Rogue rebalancing really stresses the downside of the blade, also, who I'm using as my PC. I can get up to about 95 pick-pocketing but it's still not consistent enough to avoid save scumming. For some reason I decided to increase Gaelen Bayle and the cowled wizard's asking price, and allowed them to detect magic indoors. I tested it on the elemental lich and they do in fact pop in to see what all the commotion is about. That short sword of mask is really tempting me but I don't see how I'm going to afford everything until after the Underdark with only the unseeing eye left, at this point. Still... you can't complain, that kit is absurd. -13 AC at the touch of a button *and* arcane stims? Max damage every hit *and* three pips in two-weapon style? Christ almighty.

In any case, I like 6-party stipulations better than solo because it's more of a balancing act keeping that many characters alive than a single character over leveled into ToB abilities and like you mentioned in the article it makes you play in a way that every avenue for extra experience is valuable. You value low level or more situational spells better, not having access to only the best spells on a single character; equipment is more valuable because you've got a lot more equipment slots to fill and so on. Having Jaheira in my party made me realize how gnasher is bg2's dagger of venom, for instance, which is a weapon proficiency I likely would have ignored otherwise.

 

[Falksi]

As much as I used to love BG2, and would still class it as a fave, for me to play it now and get around the pathfinding issues I have to play it drunk and pretend that me & my merry bunch of adventurers are all out on the piss, and falling all over coz we're rat-arsed.

 

[Colour Spray]

Hmm, I was watching a podcast where the guy was bothered by that too but he was using the, 'click across the opposite end of the map and hope,' method, whilst he afk'd. It goes a lot smoother if you just click slightly ahead and lead them. It becomes fairly obvious where narrow platforms are going to cause your characters to double-back on themselves, too, so you re-order them in to single file and they don't waste as much time.

Maybe switching to single file formation helps, too? I never tried that option but getting stuck on each other is generally what causes them to start pathing backwards.

 

[Falksi]

Hmm, I was watching a podcast where the guy was bothered by that too but he was using the, 'click across the opposite end of the map and hope,' method, whilst he afk'd. It goes a lot smoother if you just click slightly ahead and lead them. It becomes fairly obvious where narrow platforms are going to cause your characters to double-back on themselves, too, so you re-order them in to single file and they don't waste as much time.

Maybe switching to single file formation helps, too? I never tried that option but getting stuck on each other is generally what causes them to start pathing backwards.

It's never been a massive bother, I guess it's just because I've played through it so many times now that I notice it more now, so I've resorted to drinking my way round it.

As well as swagging beer & wine I ought to do a shot every time Minsc talks to Boo :cheersmate:

 

[Lilura]

In any case, I like 6-party stipulations better than solo because it's more of a balancing act keeping that many characters alive than a single character over leveled into ToB abilities and like you mentioned in the article it makes you play in a way that every avenue for extra experience is valuable. You value low level or more situational spells better, not having access to only the best spells on a single character; equipment is more valuable because you've got a lot more equipment slots to fill and so on. Having Jaheira in my party made me realize how gnasher is bg2's dagger of venom, for instance, which is a weapon proficiency I likely would have ignored otherwise.

Right on. Good to see someone who knows how to play this kind of setup.

 

[Anomander Rake]

@
Lacrymas
Dzupakazul

Thanks for your help. Was wondering if I would be limited in my weapon selection? I'm pretty sure about armor, not weapons.



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I was wondering one pp thing: given the tweak released for EE, called 'true experience' or something of that sort, that makes it so that the xp you get in bg2 is not equally distributed after finishing each quest, but becomes one pool (e.g: if a quests gives 65k experience to each party member, now the quest itself gives 65k x 6 even if you are soloing), I was wondering how hard would it be to do

Kensai 48\mage 50

Or maybe a more logical kensai 36\50

Is the experience enough, especially with mod content (everything but the biggest shitquest mods)?

 

[Tavernking]

Serious question is there any 'Lets play' of a six player co-op Baldurs gate run? I'm surprised no such thing exists

 

[d1r]

A little video that I created demonstrating how Neera's main quest in EE should have ended