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Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

octavius

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Oh gawd the fucking retarded spawns of TuTu and BGT.

:x

Because skeletons and kobolds spawned together at Firewine Bridge?
Hardly retarded. :roll:

Surely a few weird spawns is preferable to "correct" spawns respawning constantly?


BG1 is best enjoyed with the widescreen mod and nothing else. OP said he's a storyfag so he should definitely start with BG1.

Vanilla BG1 is just too bland and mediocre without the NPC Project and Sword Coast Strategems, IMO.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

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Sounds like DraQ has only played the vanilla version of BG1, where instant respawns was indeed a problem, but IIRC they only respawned if you reloaded. "Everyone" now plays, or has more memories of, the TuTu and BGT versions.

He clearly said they respawn out of LoS, which is true of BG1 vanilla maybe in 2% of trashmob encounters. From my experience they don't respawn after reloading, either.

Anyway it usually only took a few seconds to click on that AI light icon to the trash mob was dead, if you had give your party members a decent combat script. I don't see how it could have been resolved much faster without making the whole combat abstract.

Yeah, I really don't get the complaints. If you have ranged weapons like bows then trashmob combat lasts a matter of seconds.
 

suejak

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BG1 is best enjoyed with the widescreen mod and nothing else. OP said he's a storyfag so he should definitely start with BG1.
I haven't met a "storyfag" since 2001 who likes BG1. It plays like a bad RTS with noninteractive text-based cutscenes.
 

Sunsetspawn

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But, you're right about the pathfinding. My mages cast spells and assholes (I'm lookin at Minsc) run into it like my webs are giving out blowjobs. Back the fuck off, dickhead! Do I really need to manually steer you away from that shit?
That's just the 'AI' scripts not taking webs into account. They're not taking into account BTW, because BGscript sucks ass. Yeah, that could have been taken into account in the real pathfinding, but the thing is: sometimes you want to wade into a cloud (for instance, you're immune). It's game specific.
You're absolutely right, and sometimes I use a sacrifice (needs of the many...), but sometimes a fella just likes to dive in whether I've told him to or not. I never changed the default scripts, so it could be my fault, but I don't want these guys following any pre-planned behavior patterns cause that's not how I roll, so I assumed if I left the scripts alone there would be no asshattery.
 

SCO

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
When you don't do anything, the default is attack nearest. It's barely a script.

The reason no AI user script avoids clouds so far as i know is that clouds don't leave a variable of their centre without horrible horrible hacks, like what SCS is doing, that manages to slow down the fps of a 1995 game by spawning invisible, immortal npcs by the dozen just to run scripts.
This, btw, is the same reason a 'autoloot' system can't be coded well in normal IE (without tobex or using gemrb at least). IE is just a scenario, traps, containers, hotspots and npcs and of these all, only npcs are more-or-less-queryable/usable by the script API. The script engine doesn't even have the notion of runtime maths outside of the very few functions the exe provides (for npcs), so weidu had to be invented for install time manipulation. Obviously checking runtime artifacts like clouds and loot (traps are static), won't work.
You can see that the original idea was to make all of this consistent - there are categories for traps and weapons and potions and stuff on the same method it uses to query npc... but this is disabled for those; probably because of rushing and feature cuts, or as a 'optimization'.
 

suejak

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Reminds of a-moving marines in Starcraft 2 :love:

I love the cries for mercy in the middle of that. "There's no much loot; I don't wanna pick it up anymoooooore."
 

DraQ

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So yeah, the difference is that Wiz8 has too much combat, but there are almost no true trash encounters in it, because they are almost inevitably taxing on your resources or require management/damage control. In BG1 you put your party on autopilot most of the time and watch them slaughter masses of some poor hapless shits again and again for many minutes at time, then pick up those few coins/gems/replacement arrows each and every of them leaves behind. Manually.

And when you can't autopilot your party to victory (non-trash encounter), you have to constantly prevent your brain-dead lemmings from suicide by monster, friendly AoE spell or trap.
 

Sunsetspawn

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Hmmm, I've gotten to a place where some of the battles consist of learning from the first ass beating I take, then preparing accordingly. I'm in the Planar Sphere and there were two battles with groups of halfling mages that were nasty. The first group had a guy throw up 4 defenses before I could do anything. Careful reading of the text told me that normal weapons would do the trick, and with a little help from the double-time that haste afforded me, I was able to overcome. I tried to figure out some fancy magical tactic but ultimately had to brute force it.
I feel like every mage battle has me trying to conserve spells and health while my opponents are throwing the kitchen sink at me. I learned another cheese-dick tactic because of that. If I summon something and throw it at the mages while I hang back they'll dump a portion of their offensive load at it.
Any tips, you know, without breaking the game for me?
 

Murk

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As you get into mage battles you'll need to focus on anti-magic spells like breach, pierce, dispel, and others of that sort -- these all, to varying degrees, will disable defensive spells that have been cast.

That mage that threw out those multiple effects before you reacted was using a 'contingency' -- it auto casts 3 spells on the caster, you can get this too in time. For some spells you can just wait them out, for others you'll have to disable them. This is one of those cases where the inquisitor's buffed dispel magic is very, very effective.

Mage duels/mage battles are some of the more interesting and actually tactical battles in BG 2. Enjoy taking on liches.

BTW, you may want to check the Infinity Engine Iron Man Challenge thread -- we had some good fun in there: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/infinity-engine-ironman-extravaganza.22071/

People would often explain their strategies on how they got through some more difficult battles.
 

Sodafish

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As you get into mage battles you'll need to focus on anti-magic spells like breach, pierce, dispel, and others of that sort -- these all, to varying degrees, will disable defensive spells that have been cast.

Definitely. Load up on Breach, Remove Magic, Spell Thrust, Pierce Magic etc. Melf's Minute Meteors can be useful for rapidly chipping away at stoneskin or mirror images too. Also, if you have Jaheira or Cernd in your group the druid spell Insect Plague is very useful against spellcasters; if it gets them it causes a small amount of damage every second or so, and effectively makes any spell they attempt to cast automatically fail.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

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The first group had a guy throw up 4 defenses before I could do anything.

That just simulates pre-buffing, though in SCSII my preference is to set it only to long-term buffs like Stoneskin and the Armor line.

If I summon something and throw it at the mages while I hang back they'll dump a portion of their offensive load at it.

I think all newbs tend to take refuge in lolsummons when the mage seems impregnable, but later the enemy will just cast Death Spell on them, so you really need to learn how to duel them straight up by removing their combat and spell protections.

Any tips, you know, without breaking the game for me?

Says the guy who chose Inquisitor, the most broken anti-magic "tactic" in the game...

Anyway:

Breach removes combat protections like Stoneskin and Protection from Magic Weapons but you normally can't target a mage with Breach until you've pierced any illusions first, so for that you cast True Sight or use the Detect ability of a thief.
There are also three tiers of spell protections and higher level mages (and liches) seem airtight under Spell Trap, so your ace card there is Ruby Ray of Reversal. You can also use AoEs like Death Fog, DBFB and Nature's Beauty against many spell-protected casters.

A couple protips:
You can inflict 100% spellcasting failure on mages by casting Creeping Doom and Insect Plague.
Elemental weapons can hit mages through Stoneskins, which can kill the mage long before the skins are peeled off.
Enemy casters tend to ignore meleers under Improved Invisibility.
Solid defenses against casters include Spell Immunity (Abjuration against demi-liches), Chaotic Commands, Free Action and Death Ward.
If the mage has no Stoneskin, you can normally take him down with a backstab opener.

There are scores of ways to take on mages in BG2, and SCSII takes it to the next level, making it much more satisfying.
 

Sunsetspawn

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That mage that threw out those multiple effects before you reacted was using a 'contingency' -- it auto casts 3 spells on the caster, you can get this too in time.
I think I have that as I loot the shit out of everything I encounter. I just don't think I'm high enough level to use it. I think Nalia is level 9. Either way, reading the spell description made my eyes glaze over. I guess I am a victim of Dragon Age in which I roflstomped everything on whatever difficulty is one notch below insanity, and CONTINUED to do so into Awakenings and DA2. Though I must say that 2 is a bit harder what with its wave encounters, although many people here might argue that that isn't real difficulty.

For some spells you can just wait them out, for others you'll have to disable them. This is one of those cases where the inquisitor's buffed dispel magic is very, very effective.

Not this guy. Dispel did nothing to his protections and nothing to the status effects he hit me with like confusion and such. Insect Plague (or anything, for that matter) didn't seem to penetrate his magic defense.

BTW, you may want to check the Infinity Engine Iron Man Challenge thread -- we had some good fun in there: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/infinity-engine-ironman-extravaganza.22071/

People would often explain their strategies on how they got through some more difficult battles.
Ironmanning this game just seems like insanity considering the RNG. Although I suppose circumventing the RNG as much as you can IS the strategy.



As you get into mage battles you'll need to focus on anti-magic spells like breach, pierce, dispel, and others of that sort -- these all, to varying degrees, will disable defensive spells that have been cast.

Definitely. Load up on Breach, Remove Magic, Spell Thrust, Pierce Magic etc. Melf's Minute Meteors can be useful for rapidly chipping away at stoneskin or mirror images too. Also, if you have Jaheira or Cernd in your group the druid spell Insect Plague is very useful against spellcasters; if it gets them it causes a small amount of damage every second or so, and effectively makes any spell they attempt to cast automatically fail.
Insect Plague has been my go to when I see a mage. Best to shut those assholes up ASAP.




The first group had a guy throw up 4 defenses before I could do anything.

That just simulates pre-buffing, though in SCSII my preference is to set it only to long-term buffs like Stoneskin and the Armor line.

If I summon something and throw it at the mages while I hang back they'll dump a portion of their offensive load at it.

I think all newbs tend to take refuge in lolsummons when the mage seems impregnable, but later the enemy will just cast Death Spell on them, so you really need to learn how to duel them straight up by removing their combat and spell protections.
I thought I was quite the genius with my lolsummon. Until me coming and crying for help I've been running this spoilerless and actually haven't had a problem until this Planar Sphere.

Tell you what though, I've got an idea for when the mages get tough: LOTS OF LOLSUMMONS!

Any tips, you know, without breaking the game for me?

Says the guy who chose Inquisitor, the most broken anti-magic "tactic" in the game...
Indeed, yet my tactic did fuck-all against this mage in question. I had to resort to Haste and I was lucky to have a few normal weapons in my inventory, especially one that my main guy was specialized in in both type and fighting style. I couldn't use dispel to either drop his shields nor unfuck my party.

Anyway:

Breach removes combat protections like Stoneskin and Protection from Magic Weapons but you normally can't target a mage with Breach until you've pierced any illusions first, so for that you cast True Sight or use the Detect ability of a thief.
There are also three tiers of spell protections and higher level mages (and liches) seem airtight under Spell Trap, so your ace card there is Ruby Ray of Reversal. You can also use AoEs like Death Fog, DBFB and Nature's Beauty against many spell-protected casters.
So I need to make sure I have at least one of these memorized at all times just in case, or are there multiple ways of taking down the same defense?

A couple protips:
You can inflict 100% spellcasting failure on mages by casting Creeping Doom and Insect Plague.
LOVE THAT INSECT PLAGUE

Elemental weapons can hit mages through Stoneskins, which can kill the mage long before the skins are peeled off.


Enemy casters tend to ignore meleers under Improved Invisibility.
What about true sight. These advanced spellcasters always seem to be truesighting.

Solid defenses against casters include Spell Immunity (Abjuration against demi-liches), Chaotic Commands, Free Action and Death Ward.
If the mage has no Stoneskin, you can normally take him down with a backstab opener.
I think Nalia's "free action" sword has been an ace-in-the-hole that I've forgotten about, making everything easier with me blissfully unaware as to why, well, that and INQUISITORDISPELLOOLZ.

There are scores of ways to take on mages in BG2, and SCSII takes it to the next level, making it much more satisfying.
Well yeah, when you're familiar with it. When it's fundamentally brand new (and by it I mean D&D as a whole) it's a whole different ballgame. I did play a few of those goldbox games when I was a tyke, and shit, I still have Dark Queen of Krynn, but I never really got anywhere with them because they were hard as fuck and I was a little retard that liked the fantasy genre and figured that if I like FF and CT for SNES, I can haz D&D too.



Oh, and Minsc stinks. He misses every save, ever, without fail, and his AC is terrible. His face is always mostly red. And when he does get confused he puts a heavy handed beatdown on my peoples. Interestingly enough, I find I'm rarely ever able to confuse or charm my opponents in such a fashion.


And what the fuck was up with resting for SEVEN DAYS in that sphere after my haste spell made everyone tired? Is that a function of the interdimensional travel or is Haste just that tiring?
 

hiver

Guest
How about you make Minsc go berserk, eh?

how about ... not rushing in too much?
arrows? invisibility? do you not have Valygar with you in the Sphere?

carry on.
 

Jaesun

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Yeah as Hiver said, apparently you forgot to use Minsk's Bezerk mode.

Unfortunately, with the BGT mod you can exploit the shit out of him in Baldur's Gate.
 

SCO

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
You should have played BG1 if you think the RNG of BG2 is cruel.
 

hiver

Guest
my "tactic" with Minsc:


Buff him up, belt of higher strenght already on, speed, improved invisibility, make him rage, turn on one of those Ai setups so he doesnt fight walls, two improved/magical maces in hands, release him in general direction of the enemy and go make sandwich and tea[/QUOTE]
 

Sodafish

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And if all else fails and you're just getting frustrated, you can always lolwebcloudkill them from beyond the FoW. Cheesy and boring, yes, but will get you past.
 

hiver

Guest
Well, one of the joys of it is finding your own ways to handle stuff.
Those halflings were a bit nasty if you took them too confidently.
 

Murk

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Sunsetspawn -- some of the anti-magic spells are specific in what effects they cancel -- othertimes they only cancel one and must be cast a few times. Check the descriptions of course -- insect plague may not work if the mage has stone-skins on, as each 'hit' will be absorbed by that. Usually AOE spells can help circumvent these things, but not always.

Experiment, try, mix and match.
 

Sunsetspawn

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How about you make Minsc go berserk, eh?

how about ... not rushing in too much?
arrows? invisibility? do you not have Valygar with you in the Sphere?

carry on.
Oh boy. You know, I checked everybody's special abilities early on, so I knew Minsc could do this, and I just never, not once...

Well don't I feel like the giant ass.

Meanwhile, I'm always trying (and failing) to set traps with stupid Yoshimo. He is a bounty hunter, right? He gets special traps and trap bonuses, right? Y COME NO TRAPS FOR ME?!?!?
I haven't really tried backstabbing much either, and I've never pulled it off when I have tried.

I need to experiment.
 

hiver

Guest
Not to worry, the pain will be only passing...

:zzap!:

Its not the point of the game to figure out everything in first playthrough. And its only natural to miss many things since there is so many different skills and possible applications going at you and so much content that it really doenst matter.
Nobody here figured out everything in first game either, unless someone told them or they cheated.

and besides, its much more fun inventing your own tactics.
I for example used invisibility a lot but almost never went for backstabbs because i think thats bloody boring and cheesing it, especially when its done all the bloody time.
I also never used traps because its boring.

Shame you went with that class though because, its really boring. Did you get the druid guy from the Druid grove? He can have a bad hair day sometimes...
But then again - you will have much more fun if you do a second run with something different.

You havent met any... dragon yet, right?
Are you playing on hard core rules? You should you know.
 

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