Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[Zeriel]

Then there's the fact that one mage can obliterate any encounter in the game on his lonesome.

 

[Sodafish]

I'm pretty sure potency of certain spells were effected by an Int modifier, but I can't recall any specifics off the top of my head. Also, higher Int mitigates the effect of Ilithid brain drains (OK this is minor).

As to your second point: I would choose C + Edwin, because clerics can act as a passable tank in a pinch, whereas a C/M is limited to shitty/no armour if they want to use mage spells, and if they dont then there's no point being a C/M.

EDIT: yeah, Int also effects number of bonus spells.

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg2/character/abilities/

 

[Average Manatee]

As to your second point: I would choose C + Edwin, because clerics can act as a passable tank in a pinch, whereas a C/M is limited to shitty/no armour if they want to use mage spells, and if they dont then there's no point being a C/M.

C/M can tank just as well. Mage buffs + cleric buffs = lol no damage and infinite melee rape. And you can totally pre buff before battle then put your armor on.

EDIT: yeah, Int also effects number of bonus spells.

http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg2/character/abilities/

That's IWD2 though. I just checked BG2 and both 18 and 11 int mages both start out with 4/3/2/1 spells per day. I'm 99% certain INT doesn't matter for improving the saving throw of spells or anything, that's IWD2 again. Ironically the most important stat for mages is Wisdom for Wish (same for Sorcerers, and I think none of the stats matter at all for Cleric but don't quote me on that).

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Clerics actually do get some bonus spell slots for wis, but only a few low level ones so it's not that important.

 

[Sodafish]

C/M can tank just as well. Mage buffs + cleric buffs = lol no damage and infinite melee rape. And you can totally pre buff before battle then put your armor on.

That's very metagamey though. Besides, once the armour is on you cant cast anymore mage spells, and once in combat you can't take it off again IIRC.

That's IWD2 though. I just checked BG2 and both 18 and 11 int mages both start out with 4/3/2/1 spells per day. I'm 99% certain INT doesn't matter for improving the saving throw of spells or anything, that's IWD2 again.

Hmm, maybe you're right

I know for a fact that Int limited the amount of spells you could scribe into your book though; however, you could always quaff an Int potion to temp. increase the limit I suppose. Oh yes, and also duration of Maze is effected by Int. Also, Ilithids.

 

[Average Manatee]

It's hardly THAT metagamey if we consider the very long duration spells. And even unarmored mages can buff beyond what an armor would provide. -AC, Mirror Image (Make the first hundred or so attacks that only get by on a natural 20 miss), outright immunity to spell schools, protection from normal/magic weapons and arrows. Sequencers and contingencies. You know, all the mage stuff. There's a reason that the battles vs. highly buffed mages are hard while most battles vs warriors are a matter of you steamrolling them easily.

 

[DraQ]

I believe I named quite the list of redeeming qualities. Both you and VD who originally requested it are welcome to pick it apart at any juncture.

As you wish:

Combat

Is shit.
RTWP clusterfuck with party AI doing its best to kill itself using suicidal pathfinding, necessitating constant nursing on part of the player. I haven't abused my LMB in Diablo as much as I did my poor poor spacebar in BG.

Spell diversity

In BG1? Nope.

encounter diversity

Meh, besides shitty combat.

story, investegative plot

Only so-so and killed by abhorrent pacing anyway (for about 80% of the game fuck all happens with the plot, as you go to i-th villain, murder him, read his correspondence and increment i).

oldschool feeling of loot rarity and the joy of finding loot

Ok, I can agree with rarity, but magical items in BG1 weren't that interesting mechanically so the most interesting part of finding new loot was reading the descriptions.

aestaethics

No.

controls

No.

interface

You mean "Quick! Let's unpause the game in inventory because we can't figure out the way to prevent player from changing armour in mid-swing"?

No.

exploration (oh dear God, the exploration!)

No (oh dear god, no!)

int i=0;
while(i<mapcount)
{
    while(bMapHasFog())
            MoveTo(nearest(fog));
    i++;
}

is not fucking exploration.

Exploration can only be interesting if exhausting search doesn't work just fine.

open world-feel with a structured plot

Except plot got killed by pacing and openworld got killed by plot (Cloakwood does not exist yet just because).

the best handling of "trash" (God I hate that word, so not applicable) mobs.

Please die in a fire.

I can't name a single game handling trash mobs worse than BG1.

A combat system that handled quick fights and tough, tactical, drawn out fights with equal grace.

Grace of a drugged elephant in a porcelain store, yes.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

And you hardly feel like one of the Bhaal's Chosen until a fairway into the Saga. Sarevok seems to be the special one in BG1, and you only realize you're special towards the end of SoA when you shift into Slayer form and get a glimpse at your pocket plane that carries into ToB, where you start to realize you're the most worthy Bhaalspawn to take the mantle..

This, even in TOB you're merely one of the most powerful Bhaalspawn, it's implied that The Five are your equal or even greater in power, it's basically a survival of the fittest and you prevail due to your resourcefulness much as due to your power.

BG series is nowhere near later Bioware games in that regard where you're Revan - the most powerful Jedi, the greatest tactician or Shephard, the best humanity has to offer, the only human spectre, the only one who can fight the reapers etc.

 

[Mother Russia]

Edwin is the second most powerful character in the game. The first is Irenicus.

If you choose a Sorceror, you are #3.

 

[Kirtai]

I so need to get off my arse and actually play through more than just the start of these games.

 

[Krivol]

the best handling of "trash" (God I hate that word, so not applicable) mobs.

Please die in a fire.

I can't name a single game handling trash mobs worse than BG1.

Please give DA:O a chance. This game will amaze you.

 

[Jaesun]

 

[JarlFrank]

the best handling of "trash" (God I hate that word, so not applicable) mobs.

Please die in a fire.

I can't name a single game handling trash mobs worse than BG1.

Please give DA:O a chance. This game will amaze you.

I heard DA2 was even worse better with trash mobs.

 

[Lorica]

I so need to get off my arse and actually play through more than just the start of these games.

Not really.

Play ToEE.

 

[Rake]

the best handling of "trash" (God I hate that word, so not applicable) mobs.

Please die in a fire.

I can't name a single game handling trash mobs worse than BG1.

Please give DA:O a chance. This game will amaze you.

I heard DA2 was even worse better with trash mobs.

Yeah, it introduced trash bosses as well. Realy ahead of it's time.

 

[Jaesun]

I heard DA2 was even worse better with trash mobs.

Yeah, it introduced trash bosses as well. Realy ahead of it's time.

You are mistaken, that was in the first cRPG ever made: Knight's of the Old Republic for the XBox.

 

[tuluse]

KoTOR's bosses are so forgettable I can't remember what they are except the very end when you fight Bastila/3 random sith and Malak.

Oh there is the fight with the boss of the school, but I think that's avoidable.

 

[Rake]

I heard DA2 was even worse better with trash mobs.

Yeah, it introduced trash bosses as well. Realy ahead of it's time.

You are mistaken, that was in the first cRPG ever made: Knight's of the Old Republic for the XBox.

I haven't played Kotor. It seems i missed a great game. But i'm not surprised. Bioware was always the king of cRPGs. I read it in IGN

 

[Grunker]

I can't name a single game handling trash mobs worse than BG1.a

BG1 "Trash"fight = 20 seconds of your life casting a spell or cleaning out monsters.

Wizardry 8 "Trash"fight = 30 minutes of your life repeating what you do every time you encounter trash minions.

Baldur's Gate and Temple of Elemental Evil, hell even Fallout shows us that "trash" fights can be good when handled correctly.

Wizardry 8 demonstrates how fantastic mechanics can be severely hampered by waves of enemies which result in fights that take forever to complete.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Why lie like I child when you want to make a point?

 

[Grunker]

Why do you lie?

 

[DraQ]

I can't name a single game handling trash mobs worse than BG1.a

BG1 "Trash"fight = 20 seconds of your life casting a spell or cleaning out monsters.

Wizardry 8 "Trash"fight = 30 minutes of your life repeating what you do every time you encounter trash minions.

Baldur's Gate and Temple of Elemental Evil, hell even Fallout shows us that "trash" fights can be good when handled correctly.

Wizardry 8 demonstrates how fantastic mechanics can be severely hampered by waves of enemies which result in fights that take forever to complete.

Except in Wizardry 8 the exact same trash encounters don't respawn again and again the moment you lose line of sight to them.

Not to mention Wizardry 8 combat is actually enjoyable and doesn't involve herding suicidal lemings.

 

[Murk]

Yeah you guys are way past the point of any argument based on objectivity, you might as well just say "but I like _this_ more".

 

[Average Manatee]

I think we could just go ahead and agree that shit is shit and not worry about the specific colors, smells and tastes.

 

[Grunker]

argument based on objectivity

lul

you might as well just say "but I like _this_ more".

The relative duration of fights in BG and Wizardry are not exactly a matter of subjective sensation, and you have to be one twisted motherfucker to spend more/a similar amount of time fighting insignificant/trash mobs in BG compared to Wizardry.

Beyond this, I can only say that I love both Wizardry and BG, so when I make this claim, I don't do it to tout BG's superiority but to highlight a relative strength.

Also:

argument based on objectivity

lul