The big 4X thread (also unofficial patches + mods, also questions about these)

Theodora · Sep 29, 2020

smaug said:
This was from a long time ago, I'm pretty sure someone answered this a while ago.

Did you succeed in getting into 4x games?

smaug · Sep 29, 2020

Theodora said:
smaug said:

This was from a long time ago, I'm pretty sure someone answered this a while ago.

Click to expand...

Did you succeed in getting into 4x games?

Haven't played one yet, after my Kingmaker playthrough I'm going to try AoW3 which is a pseudo-4X if I understand.

Maybe afterward I will try Civ4, which I own.

Theodora · Sep 29, 2020

Age of Wonders isn't a "pseudo 4X", it's just a 4X with tactics combat. But yeah, it, Civ, and Endless Legends/Space-2 are all good ways to get into the genre.

Alex · Sep 29, 2020

I highly recommend the ones from Simtex (Master of Orion 1-2 and Master of Magic).

Lagi · Sep 29, 2020

so Age of Wonders is not consider 4x ?! because you cannot build a cities, and you have tactical combat??

Explore means players send scouts across a map to reveal surrounding territories.

Expand means players claim new territory by creating new settlements, or sometimes by extending the influence of existing settlements.

Exploit means players gather and use resources in areas they control, and improve the efficiency of that usage.

Exterminate means attacking and eliminating rival players. Since in some games all territory is eventually claimed, eliminating a rival's presence may be the only way to achieve further expansion.

ah... ok

quite coherent definition must say

Lagi · Sep 29, 2020

I think you misclicked 1 and M, let me fix it

Alex said:
I highly recommend the ones from Simtex (Remnants of Precursors, Master of Orion 2 and Caster of Magic).

Citizen · Sep 29, 2020

Lagi said:
so Age of Wonders is not consider 4x ?! because you cannot build a cities, and you have tactical combat??

You can build cities since AoW2, in AoW1 you could only rebuild abandoned cities scattered across the map or grab enemy ones. Age of Wonders 2, Shadow Magic and 3 are most definetly 4x games, even if pretty simple and mostly focused on tactical combat. They have very limited diplomacy options though, and no economic/science/population victory, the only way to win is to eleminate everyone who's not in your alliance

Alex · Sep 29, 2020

Citizen said:
Lagi said:

so Age of Wonders is not consider 4x ?! because you cannot build a cities, and you have tactical combat??

Click to expand...

You can build cities since AoW2, in AoW1 you could only rebuild abandoned cities scattered across the map or grab enemy ones. Age of Wonders 2, Shadow Magic and 3 are most definetly 4x games, even if pretty simple and mostly focused on tactical combat. They have very limited diplomacy options though, and no economic/science/population victory, the only way to win is to eleminate everyone who's not in your alliance

I would argue their gameplay is more similar to HoMM than a normal 4X (even with city building), but I haven't played them much.

Lagi said:
I think you misclicked 1 and M, let me fix it

Alex said:

I highly recommend the ones from Simtex (Remnants of Precursors, Master of Orion 2 and Caster of Magic).

Click to expand...

I haven't played either of these, actually.

Lagi · Sep 29, 2020

https://rayfowler.itch.io/remnants-of-the-precursors
better UI, graphic with an old game.

https://af.gog.com/game/master_of_magic_caster_of_magic?as=1649904300
CoM, is a MoM patch really. lot more dynamic from the start (2x starting troop, faster movement 2tile instead 1, buildings grant bigger bonus=faster development), AI is smarter/more aggressive (and i think it have more rationale diplomatic message?). The UI is dated, i always get tired from all the work to just get the basic info or give troops command (but its MoM flaw from the start).

Citizen · Sep 29, 2020

Alex said:
I would argue their gameplay is more similar to HoMM than a normal 4X (even with city building), but I haven't played them much.

Not even close. Most defining parts of HoMM gameplay for me are: focus on heroes as the only ways to move armies around, the roster of units available for purchase replenishes once a week, units and buildings are produced instantly, no unit/building upkeep. AoW is much closer to civ series (I mean AoW is basically a Master of Magic clone), it has unit/building upkeep, building stuff and recruiting units takes time, every unit can move individually on a global map, magic research, etc. Fantasy themes and combat focus are the only similar things between HoMM and AoW

ValeVelKal · Oct 16, 2020

JarlFrank said:
smaug said:

Where to start with 4X Genre:
I have ($60) in steam money, and I have the choice of (at least that I know of):

Hearts of Iron 2-4

HoMM 3 (HD Edition)/5-7

Crusader Kings 2

Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition/Age of Empires 3 Complete edition.

Total Warhammer II/I

Please let me know of good starting points, or other games.

Click to expand...

Not a single one of these games is a 4x

I would say that HOMM3 and MAYBE TW are 4X
- Explore => Yes for HOMM3, that's the maybe for TW
- Expand => Yes
- Exploit => Yes, though weak
- Exterminate => Yes

JarlFrank · Oct 16, 2020

ValeVelKal said:
JarlFrank said:

smaug said:

Where to start with 4X Genre:
I have ($60) in steam money, and I have the choice of (at least that I know of):

Hearts of Iron 2-4

HoMM 3 (HD Edition)/5-7

Crusader Kings 2

Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition/Age of Empires 3 Complete edition.

Total Warhammer II/I

Please let me know of good starting points, or other games.

Click to expand...

Not a single one of these games is a 4x

Click to expand...

I would say that HOMM3 and MAYBE TW are 4X
- Explore => Yes for HOMM3, that's the maybe for TW
- Expand => Yes
- Exploit => Yes, though weak
- Exterminate => Yes

Nah TW is more akin to grand strategy than 4x.

4x games usually allow you to found your own colonies, which you can't do in TW. Also resource exploitation isn't that advanced in them either.

ValeVelKal · Oct 17, 2020

JarlFrank said:
ValeVelKal said:

JarlFrank said:

smaug said:

Where to start with 4X Genre:
I have ($60) in steam money, and I have the choice of (at least that I know of):

Hearts of Iron 2-4

HoMM 3 (HD Edition)/5-7

Crusader Kings 2

Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition/Age of Empires 3 Complete edition.

Total Warhammer II/I

Please let me know of good starting points, or other games.

Click to expand...

Not a single one of these games is a 4x

Click to expand...

I would say that HOMM3 and MAYBE TW are 4X
- Explore => Yes for HOMM3, that's the maybe for TW
- Expand => Yes
- Exploit => Yes, though weak
- Exterminate => Yes

Click to expand...

Nah TW is more akin to grand strategy than 4x.

4x games usually allow you to found your own colonies, which you can't do in TW. Also resource exploitation isn't that advanced in them either.

Point taken. So AOW is 4X and HOMM is not, with each of them being at the border

tindrli · Oct 17, 2020

try space empires IV

jebsmoker · Oct 19, 2020

https://af.gog.com/game/emperor_of_the_fading_suns?as=1649904300

holy fuck aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Joggerino · Nov 8, 2020

FEDSMOKER said:
https://af.gog.com/game/emperor_of_the_fading_suns?as=1649904300

holy fuck aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Is it worth trying out?

jebsmoker · Nov 9, 2020

hello friend · Jan 12, 2021

JarlFrank OP is curiously devoid of links to patches and mods.

JarlFrank · Jan 12, 2021

hello friend said:
JarlFrank OP is curiously devoid of links to patches and mods.

Yeah I need to go ahead and edit the first post.

Remind me tomorrow.

hello friend · Jan 13, 2021

It's tomorrow

Chris Koźmik · Jan 13, 2021

JarlFrank said:
Yeah I need to go ahead and edit the first post.

Remind me tomorrow.

Don't forget Stellar Monarch and Stellar Monarch 2

Forum topics:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/stellar-monarch-turn-based-4x-space-empire-builder.98458/
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/stellar-monarch-2-feudal-space-empire-builder.136270/

AgentFransis · Jan 13, 2021

Add Shadow Empire. Best sci-fi 4X since Alpha Centauri and surpasses it in many ways. Combat and logistics system that puts HOI to shame, complex government management like nothing else, CK-like characters with their own skills and personality, unit design, resource management and more.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...vanced-tactics-decisive-campaigns-dev.123526/

https://www.matrixgames.com/game/shadow-empire

flyingjohn · Jan 21, 2021

Arrowgrab · Jan 21, 2021

flyingjohn said:
Sword of the stars 1 mods and stuff:

[...]

Sword of the stars 2:

While you're on topic, are there any mods that you personally recommend above the others, and why?

And also, is SotS 2 good now? As I recall, there was a great outcry about how broken and unplayable it was when it came out. What's the deal today?

AgentFransis · Jan 21, 2021

Arrowgrab said:
flyingjohn said:

Sword of the stars 1 mods and stuff:

[...]

Sword of the stars 2:

Click to expand...

While you're on topic, are there any mods that you personally recommend above the others, and why?

And also, is SotS 2 good now? As I recall, there was a great outcry about how broken and unplayable it was when it came out. What's the deal today?

It's playable, sort of. The UI is shit but you get used to it. The AI is retarded. I had fun exploring all the great systems and combat model but I have no desire to play anymore since there's no challenge once you know what you're doing.

The big 4X thread (also unofficial patches + mods, also questions about these)

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