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The big 4X thread (also unofficial patches + mods, also questions about these)

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Developer
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May 6, 2011
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Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I was wondering what is the best sci-fi 4x one can play in 2017. I have played MoO 2 too many times. I have been playing a lot of the other genre representatives and for most of them one game was enough.

New Master Of Orion ? Snoozefest
Stars In Shadow ? Nice, but left me cold
Armada 2526 Supernova ? playable / belongs to the better ones
Lost Empires Immortals ? It has an epic scope, but that's about it
Sword Of The Stars 1 ? Nice combat, but awful UI NAvigation and almost no planetary development
Sword Of The Stars 2 ? Just No
Distant Worlds ? Not my cup of tea at all
Stellaris ? Nice to look at, but boring as heaven
Galciv 1-3 ? Generic, okay for one playthrough
Endless Space 1+2 ? Enjoyable / they belong to the better ones / I did replay 1 a few times

As I was about giving up on the genre, a little gem found its way on my hard drive: Star Drive 2
It's much more MoO-like as Stars In Shadow and the new official Master Of Orion. You can create a creative race and the races are clearly inspired by MoO. Star Ruler 2 is a big tribute to MoO, but more fun than the other titles claiming the same.

Perhaps I lucked out with the settings for my first game, but the AI is putting up a hell of a fight and I can say I didn't have as much fun with a 4x since MoO 2. Unfortunatly the game seems to be abandoned by the (one !) developer.
Others found it to be buggy and the AI braindead. Yes, I stumbled on some bugs, but nothing too serious, that can't be circumvented in one way or the other. Give it a try. It's the best MoO clone.

Did you mean Star Drive 2 or Star Rulers 2?
If the former, the dev is on the codex :)
Armada 2526 seemed to be well suited to multiplayer. My copy keeps CTD for some reason.
I found Space Empires 4 quite fun in multiplayer. It has a Dominions 4 like battle system (but simpler) where you have to give basic orders to your units, and endless customization options. Not sure it is still played these days in MP, though, but I suppose it still is.
I agree with most of your other assessments.
 

Miner 2049er

Scholar
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Messages
185
I was writing about Star Drive 2. I believe I checked Star Ruler (1) for an hour and found it to be an inaccessible, uninteresting real time mess.
 

tindrli

Arcane
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Jan 5, 2011
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Dragodol
I was writing about Star Drive 2. I believe I checked Star Ruler (1) for an hour and found it to be an inaccessible, uninteresting real time mess.

try star ruler 2 with expansions and patches.. .its... its.. very different but if you manage to get into it.. you will find it to be complex and deep.. personaly i have it parked for years and still i install it every time i do format and shit
 

Miner 2049er

Scholar
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Messages
185
Eventually I may give Star Ruler 2 a try (if the rivers are turning blue and the 3 moons are meeting in the zenith).

Back to Star Drive 2, I have to say the idea of a tactical combat layer is great. Sure the implementation left a lot to be desired, that's why the expansion abolished it, but I salute the dev for trying.
You research new weapons and modules and equip your troops and heroes with them. In combat you direct every single tooper that you have equiped to be a medic, a melee or a gunner or even a specialist that is designed to walk over toxic environment. Unfortunatley and in contrast to ships, troops don't gain XP.

Imagine a 4x with a ground (incl. ship boarding) combat layer on the quality level of Temple Of Elemental Evil or Jagged Allience 2, where your heroes gain XP and you can choose skills from a tree on leveling up. The more RPG elements, the better. Add a little pinch of Heroes Of Might And Magic, too.
I know there are purists thinking that has nothing to do in a 4x. For them there has to be the opportunity to auto resolve the battles, but a 4x with a great ground combat layer is not far from my dream game.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Developer
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Aug 24, 2013
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4,445
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
In regards to all the chatter about Star Drive 2: why does it have so many shitty thumbs down reviews on steam, including recent ones? Outside of this thread, and maybe a review or two, it seems people disliked the game and the developer.
 

Lord Azlan

Arcane
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Shitposter
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Jun 4, 2014
Messages
1,901
Looking for a space 4X where interaction with aliens actually means something.

There is a Steam sale coming up and I want to be prepared. The screenshots of aliens in the various games looks so impressive but it seems there is some sort of 4X conspiracy where alien encounters are mostly just boring.

What am I looking for?

I guess some story line, adventures, missions, build a federation, learn something interesting about aliens. Something Star Trek, Star Wars. Anything other than the current stalemate where aliens seem like another tool or another consideration.

I have:

Endless Space
Gal Civ 2
Space Empires IV
Sins Trinity
AI:WAR
Star Ruler 1-3

I know some of the Codexians are experts in the genre. Does this game even exist or are the templates set down by Civ set in stone?

So what about MOO2, Star Ruler, Stellaris, Gal Civ 3, Starpoint Warlords, Stars in Shadow, The Last Federation?

Can I get any serious 1 on 1 alien action intercourse or not?
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Developer
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,445
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Looking for a space 4X where interaction with aliens actually means something.

There is a Steam sale coming up and I want to be prepared. The screenshots of aliens in the various games looks so impressive but it seems there is some sort of 4X conspiracy where alien encounters are mostly just boring.

What am I looking for?

I guess some story line, adventures, missions, build a federation, learn something interesting about aliens. Something Star Trek, Star Wars. Anything other than the current stalemate where aliens seem like another tool or another consideration.

I have:

Endless Space
Gal Civ 2
Space Empires IV
Sins Trinity
AI:WAR
Star Ruler 1-3

I know some of the Codexians are experts in the genre. Does this game even exist or are the templates set down by Civ set in stone?

So what about MOO2, Star Ruler, Stellaris, Gal Civ 3, Starpoint Warlords, Stars in Shadow, The Last Federation?

Can I get any serious 1 on 1 alien action intercourse or not?

Sounds like you want something like Star Control 2.
 

Destroid

Arcane
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
16,628
Location
Australia
Eventually I may give Star Ruler 2 a try (if the rivers are turning blue and the 3 moons are meeting in the zenith).

Back to Star Drive 2, I have to say the idea of a tactical combat layer is great. Sure the implementation left a lot to be desired, that's why the expansion abolished it, but I salute the dev for trying.
You research new weapons and modules and equip your troops and heroes with them. In combat you direct every single tooper that you have equiped to be a medic, a melee or a gunner or even a specialist that is designed to walk over toxic environment. Unfortunatley and in contrast to ships, troops don't gain XP.

Imagine a 4x with a ground (incl. ship boarding) combat layer on the quality level of Temple Of Elemental Evil or Jagged Allience 2, where your heroes gain XP and you can choose skills from a tree on leveling up. The more RPG elements, the better. Add a little pinch of Heroes Of Might And Magic, too.
I know there are purists thinking that has nothing to do in a 4x. For them there has to be the opportunity to auto resolve the battles, but a 4x with a great ground combat layer is not far from my dream game.

Try Emperor of the Fading Suns or Imperium Galactica, ground combat looks like below:
e51668b7937ca8ce6dc0b738eeccdb23767e7c7560e5cd547d59829c878dafca.jpg

kQQRy9B.jpg



In regards to all the chatter about Star Drive 2: why does it have so many shitty thumbs down reviews on steam, including recent ones? Outside of this thread, and maybe a review or two, it seems people disliked the game and the developer.

Star Drive 1 was complete garbage abandoned by the dev to make a sequel when he hadn't even finished the first one. Didn't even bother to look at Star Drive 2, too disgusted.



Looking for a space 4X where interaction with aliens actually means something.

There is a Steam sale coming up and I want to be prepared. The screenshots of aliens in the various games looks so impressive but it seems there is some sort of 4X conspiracy where alien encounters are mostly just boring.

What am I looking for?

I guess some story line, adventures, missions, build a federation, learn something interesting about aliens. Something Star Trek, Star Wars. Anything other than the current stalemate where aliens seem like another tool or another consideration.

I have:

Endless Space
Gal Civ 2
Space Empires IV
Sins Trinity
AI:WAR
Star Ruler 1-3

I know some of the Codexians are experts in the genre. Does this game even exist or are the templates set down by Civ set in stone?

So what about MOO2, Star Ruler, Stellaris, Gal Civ 3, Starpoint Warlords, Stars in Shadow, The Last Federation?

Can I get any serious 1 on 1 alien action intercourse or not?

Try Reunion.
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Developer
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May 6, 2011
Messages
4,318
Location
Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
SE4 remains the best option for space 4x Multiplayer IMO. Many 4x have cool features that the AI cannot make good use of, and are unsuitable for MP.
SE4 has tactical combat similar to Dominions in which your fleets fight automatically according to preset "plans". It beats reading a book while waiting other players resolve their battles in Master of Orion 2 IMO.

Unfortunately, it does not seem very active lately :(
 

Lagi

Savant
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
726
Location
Desert
Emperor of the Fading Suns looks sweet can someone do me briefing about it?
I know its 4x thread, but it looks like only ground combat future hex-board game?
 

Raapys

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
4,960
It has space stuff too, including combat. That part is very simple compared to the ground stuff though. On the ground you have your combat, construction, recruitment, etc. You can use troop transports to go between planets/systems. There's research, interesting diplomacy, a cool setting.

Overall it's a pretty great game, but it can be a bit overwhelming since you start out with forces spread all over the galaxy, rather than building up from zero. The excessive micromanagement and simple space aspect kinda keeps it from going all the way to the top I think. Would love to see a remake of it, since it could benefit a lot from a less messy UI.
 

Lagi

Savant
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
726
Location
Desert
I try it yesterday, not sure if this is best experience?: Fading suns - mod combo
This potato guy claim this modders ruin the game. F.ex. by making death stacks.

I dont understand it yet, but I feel the charm. Setting is RICH $!$ - top notch. I know is base on some book, but anyway hat off for devs for implementing soo much flavor.

it seem to be finally space game with proper ground warefare.

UI is disaster. Always I'm inspecting the stack of unit. I can not scroll map with arrow key, nor use keyboard. Mouse-scroll i didnt hope to work. Controls is simple enough to be able to code it to play only with keyboard.
 

Lagi

Savant
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
726
Location
Desert
it seem to be finally space game with proper ground warefare.

the heck release was February 28, 1997*, i'm confuse now about my choice of words. With all this indie, mod, home-game around, I somehow thought its more recent title.

I expect somebody to make 4x with the emphasis on ground combat. Instead of awaiting for new break-through in industry, i should go excavating artifacts. [cliche of "searching for long forgotten technology of ancient race", is little more sensible now for me]

*similar to Age of Empires 1, or Starcraft 1, or Total Annihilation, or Dark Reign, or Heroes MM 2, or Master of Orion 2. GOLDEN AGE
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Brad Wardell's retrospective on the failure of Elemental: War of Magic:



Transcript: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/f366b1c4-d7b4-460d-bc21-07d5c27555d9cc.txt

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018...bers-the-mystery-error-that-killed-elemental/

War Stories: Brad Wardell on how poor memory management crippled Elemental
Video: How Stardock's ambitious fantasy game ran aground on technical limitations.

Welcome back to "War Stories," our ongoing video series looking at game devs tackling complex programming challenges. Check out our previous chats with Looking Glass founder Paul Neurath and Ultima designer Richard Garriott.

Any fan of spacefaring turn-based strategy games should know the name Brad Wardell. For decades now, Wardell and his studio Stardock have been behind the well-loved Galactic Civilizations series, which started on the ill-fated OS/2 before finding success on Windows years later. The studio's space-RTS empire also includes Sins of a Solar Empire and Ashes of the Singularity, keeping alive a genre that has fallen into obscurity in recent years.

Around 2010, though, Wardell and Stardock took a turn away from sci-fi and toward high fantasy with the extremely ambitious Elemental: War of Magic. As Wardell recalls, the development plan called for units that could marry and have children that really aged, fully designable cities, and individual units that could each be fully outfitted with their own sets of clothes.

Many of those features had to be pulled, as two years into development, Wardell and his team started encountering mysterious memory errors in their testing. While the game looked like it was well under the 2GB memory limits of Windows PCs at the time, random memory errors kept popping up with no reliable way to fix them entirely.

In this video, Wardell reminisces on the "horror" of running into a seemingly unexplainable bug after years of development, explains the technical issues behind the actual problem, and recalls the crushing experience of shipping a game that didn't live up to expectations.
 

Daedalos

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
5,557
Location
Denmark
What game is the closest to K240, Acendency, Fragile Alligiances?

I simply can't find a good 4X space game like those.

HELP
 

Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,439
Location
California
I haven't played a 4x game. The UIs scare me. Where should I begin?

Alpha Centauri?
Crusader Kings 2?
Europa 4?


Are these all the same (you've played one, you've played them all?)
 

Citizen

Guest
I haven't played a 4x game. The UIs scare me. Where should I begin?

Alpha Centauri?
Crusader Kings 2?
Europa 4?


Are these all the same (you've played one, you've played them all?)

Master of Orion 2
Master of Magic
Civ2, 4
Alpha Centauri

I barely played paradox games so can't tell anything, but they aren't similar to classic civ-like 4x. They are RTS, to begin with.
Civ and SMAC are similar: SMAC is a bigger, better Civ, but Civ is also very enjoyable. (At least 2 and 4, never tried the others)
MoO2 is a classic space 4x, if you ever tried a space turn-based 4x, odds are it was a mediocre MoO2 clone.
MoM is Civ1 + MoO2 + Fantasy themes + Magic, very cool for LARPing your fantasy empire and probably the best mage simulator ever. One of the few games where magic is strong, useful and diverse and being a wizard is not gay. No balance, no multiplayer and dumb AI, though.
 

Ranarama

Learned
Joined
Dec 7, 2016
Messages
604
Now if only someone would patch out that diplomacy minigame, I might give it another go.
 

Hellraiser

Arcane
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
11,171
Location
Danzig, Potato-Hitman Commonwealth


Let's see, we have nice looking hexes, a unit designer kind of like in SMAC or Endless Legend but with some rock/paper/scissor mechanics built in to weapons, Civ V style combat for both space and ground, multiple cities per planet and tiles. Not sure if it has one unit per tile or not...

On the other hand the developers previous game(s) did not stand out from the sea of bland generic attempts at space 4X. Also at the moment the faction customization options look shallow.
 

smaug

Secular Koranism with Israeli Characteristics
Patron
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
6,438
Location
Texas
Insert Title Here
Where to start with 4X Genre:
I have ($60) in steam money, and I have the choice of (at least that I know of):
  • Hearts of Iron 2-4
  • HoMM 3 (HD Edition)/5-7
  • Crusader Kings 2
  • Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition/Age of Empires 3 Complete edition.
  • Total Warhammer II/I
Please let me know of good starting points, or other games.
 

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