Hm. I really wouldn't mind reintegrating with our lost human brothers and getting some sweet, sweet AI tech. How do you guys think our chances are at convincing the public that the aliens are the true enemy, and our misguided human brothers should be welcomed back into the fold? All things considered, we could probably curbstomp the phyr with our shielded stealthships. Getting the scientific advances of FAITH integrated into our society might be the boost we need to become top dog in the sector a decade down the line. Even if it would result in political instability in the short term.
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The Codexian Saga LP
- Thread starter The Barbarian
- Start date
The Barbarian
Liturgist
The Barbarian accedes to this, seeing as it is about the fifth time it has been proposed.
Very well, order your votes by preference, if you will. If it serves our democratic needs, it will do.
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Public reaction depends on whether we're going to forcefully reintegrate the transhumans in the form of Marianism. If we do it peacefully and mould a more open society conducive to FAITH some lingering Commo remnants may be unhappy at the biased treatment. Our more faithful folk will also be angry at this blatant transgression of the doctrine of a ‘pure body’. If we do it by force, only seeking their technology, everything would probably be okay but we will drift even further down the path of blind dogmatism.
Radech
Augur
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2007
- Messages
- 513
BADC - yeah i wanna have fun with the genmods too, we'll just have to spin this one right, how about reunification with our lost brothers, unfairly ousted by the vanity of the past regime - vassalage or alliance would be good, reintegration harder, and less beneficial I think. Can't they get in on a good samaritan wildcard, just by virtue of being more human than anything we've bombed or been bombed by..
Hm... I'm fairly certain I want to go with B. As much as I love our little god-racket (ALL HAIL SANTI MARIA!), the LP could do with a change of gears. I hope the rest of you are willing to take a leap of faith with me on this one. We're probably going to have internal strife and political unrest as a result, but if we can merge semi-peacefully with FAITH, I think we're going to be better off a few years down the road. It could also lead to some very interesting C&C when we have to decide which parts of FAITH and which parts of Marianism to keep in the hybrid monstrosity we'll create.
Right now, we have heard nothing from the Amoneth or Turanei. the Raumen, Hi'in and Bron are licking their wounds after a long, exhausting war. This is the best time to risk short-term vulnerability for long-term gain, as there aren't any serious contenders to capitalize on our weakness.
My vote (subject to change if someone makes a very convincing argument):
BADC
Right now, we have heard nothing from the Amoneth or Turanei. the Raumen, Hi'in and Bron are licking their wounds after a long, exhausting war. This is the best time to risk short-term vulnerability for long-term gain, as there aren't any serious contenders to capitalize on our weakness.
My vote (subject to change if someone makes a very convincing argument):
BADC
The commo deserved everything they got though. They stabbed us in the back when we were in the middle of a war to save humanity. Then stabbed us in the back again after we kicked the Hi'ins asses for them and threatened to nuke the cradle of Man. My sole regret is that we didn't commit tasteful Genocide on their asses.
In contrast FAITH did was leave peacefully to settle worlds outside Marianite juristiction. They broke no laws, they took only the resources they had legally obtained and they didn't seek to harm us in the slightest.
The biggest problem I see at the moment is wether or not FAITH is interested in rejoining the glory of Codexia. Their mindset seems to have diverged signifigantly from ours, and we'll have to understand them before we know what to offer. Hopefully, our undisputed military might can win us a close alliance in the short term, opening up for unification in the long term.
In contrast FAITH did was leave peacefully to settle worlds outside Marianite juristiction. They broke no laws, they took only the resources they had legally obtained and they didn't seek to harm us in the slightest.
The biggest problem I see at the moment is wether or not FAITH is interested in rejoining the glory of Codexia. Their mindset seems to have diverged signifigantly from ours, and we'll have to understand them before we know what to offer. Hopefully, our undisputed military might can win us a close alliance in the short term, opening up for unification in the long term.
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There are some things which appear to be the truth, which have all the hallmarks of truth, but which are not the real truth. The real truth must sometimes be protected by a labyrinth of lies…
I mean, that which appears to our senses is not the fundamental truth. Things that are seen and heard and done by the flesh are mere shadows of a deeper reality…
And thus the trivial truth is that our brethren have merely given up purity of the body and debased themselves in corrupt flesh. But in the deepest sense of the truth, by forsaking their bodily salvation they have made themselves stronger of mind so as to accept spiritual salvation more easily, and so it is that, surely, just as they have readily given up their body, we must readily avail our resources to aid them in their quest for the salvation of their soul.
It is a path not meant for all devotees of Santi Maria. Most of us serve better as we are, unaltered, obeying, disciplined, mindful. But for those who are tortured and feel confined by their cage of flesh, who yearn to have their mind set free, this is the path they must suffer, the path of corrupt flesh, in order to both ensure their eternal salvation and that they may better serve the spreading of the Light of Santi Maria.
I mean, that which appears to our senses is not the fundamental truth. Things that are seen and heard and done by the flesh are mere shadows of a deeper reality…
And thus the trivial truth is that our brethren have merely given up purity of the body and debased themselves in corrupt flesh. But in the deepest sense of the truth, by forsaking their bodily salvation they have made themselves stronger of mind so as to accept spiritual salvation more easily, and so it is that, surely, just as they have readily given up their body, we must readily avail our resources to aid them in their quest for the salvation of their soul.
It is a path not meant for all devotees of Santi Maria. Most of us serve better as we are, unaltered, obeying, disciplined, mindful. But for those who are tortured and feel confined by their cage of flesh, who yearn to have their mind set free, this is the path they must suffer, the path of corrupt flesh, in order to both ensure their eternal salvation and that they may better serve the spreading of the Light of Santi Maria.
laclongquan
Arcane
I like integrating humanity the most but I fear this shall not be possible. It's a devil advocate position so I will elaborate:
These humans flee Codexia in fears of oppressions, of limited freedoms, of pogroms and genocide (in case of AI). What make them any less fearful of our current regime who has just swallowed the Commonwealth and just cooled down a bloody campaign of terror on multiple worlds? What make them believe our hardly believable proposals? To them we are their nightmares walking.
These bears are the same. They wont forget that we fought their ancestor in the last Destruction War. They wont forget that we stood aside while their worlds burnt and died. And even though we took in a few of their ancestors, that is just so we can inherit these dead worlds. They wont forget that their life in Codexia was hardly a thing of rose and light: oppression, xenophobia... They wont forget that they flee for their life not so long ago. To them, the current Codexia is 800 trilion tons Monster.
What is more, is that they both fear Codexia than each other. If we ever try to attack both of them at once (which we can, I think), they will easily united to stand against us. that is a ruinous war. We can win but the price of victory is hardly worth the effort to do it in 1st place.
This is the time when our karmas come back and bit us in the ass. We have no chance at all of reconcilation as of now. Our credit are zero to them.
The best choice we have is that move along, colonize other places and ignore both of them for now. If you ever want to recontact and open trade with them, let them alone for their inconclusive war. That will stop in a very short while now that we are here. If we are lucky, one of them will contact us. THAT is the moment of possible diplomatic success.
MY choice is
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I will not vote on any other.
These humans flee Codexia in fears of oppressions, of limited freedoms, of pogroms and genocide (in case of AI). What make them any less fearful of our current regime who has just swallowed the Commonwealth and just cooled down a bloody campaign of terror on multiple worlds? What make them believe our hardly believable proposals? To them we are their nightmares walking.
These bears are the same. They wont forget that we fought their ancestor in the last Destruction War. They wont forget that we stood aside while their worlds burnt and died. And even though we took in a few of their ancestors, that is just so we can inherit these dead worlds. They wont forget that their life in Codexia was hardly a thing of rose and light: oppression, xenophobia... They wont forget that they flee for their life not so long ago. To them, the current Codexia is 800 trilion tons Monster.
What is more, is that they both fear Codexia than each other. If we ever try to attack both of them at once (which we can, I think), they will easily united to stand against us. that is a ruinous war. We can win but the price of victory is hardly worth the effort to do it in 1st place.
This is the time when our karmas come back and bit us in the ass. We have no chance at all of reconcilation as of now. Our credit are zero to them.
The best choice we have is that move along, colonize other places and ignore both of them for now. If you ever want to recontact and open trade with them, let them alone for their inconclusive war. That will stop in a very short while now that we are here. If we are lucky, one of them will contact us. THAT is the moment of possible diplomatic success.
MY choice is
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I will not vote on any other.
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2008
- Messages
- 11,370
To pose a question to the Barbarian; how dogmatic are the following classes of people in the Respublica at present?
1) The leaders
2) The bureaucrats, administrators, people tasked with carrying out their orders
3) The people
How malleable is their faith? Is there room for reform in Marianism or is the resistance to change absolute in view of the current 'boom times'?
edit: I'd say the Devil's Advocate position would be to weigh in on the side of the Phyr. Nothing wrong with keeping out of the war and minding our own business, actually.
1) The leaders
2) The bureaucrats, administrators, people tasked with carrying out their orders
3) The people
How malleable is their faith? Is there room for reform in Marianism or is the resistance to change absolute in view of the current 'boom times'?
edit: I'd say the Devil's Advocate position would be to weigh in on the side of the Phyr. Nothing wrong with keeping out of the war and minding our own business, actually.
anus_pounder
Arcane
CDAB .
Fuck our human bros.
Fuck our human bros.
BethesdaLove
Arbiter
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2008
- Messages
- 1,998
DACB
laclongquan
Arcane
Oh yeah, never forget how much dogmatic our peoples are or any option can fuck us in the art. I still remember the last buttfuckery.
Brotherman Bill
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2009
- Messages
- 6,933
I think FAITH will be utterly repulsed by what we have become. The difference is like that of a modern liberal democracy vs a totalitarian bronze age theocracy, only larger.
Luan
Educated
I highly doubt integration would be possible. Plainly stated in the barbarian's update, they are our anti-thesis. Even an alliance is stretching it. This does not mean they will be violent to us out of principle, but will most definitely be so if we press the issue.
This is an extreme risk and on the slim chance that it doesn't spur a civil war, it will change the very fiber of our grand society.
My vote is ADBC
This is an extreme risk and on the slim chance that it doesn't spur a civil war, it will change the very fiber of our grand society.
My vote is ADBC
Nickless
Educated
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2009
- Messages
- 960
Come on guys, if we don't make the effort to change our society, we're going to be stuck with a non-progressive, technologically inferior mega giant empire that will not be able to withstand ITZ. We don't need to sacrifice our religion, we only need to create a Techno Jesus to change it. Anyway, even if we save them, we don't need to integrate them with our own society. We could make them our vassals, and leave them to live in their sin so long as they stay within a confined zone of space.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2002
- Messages
- 28,547
Councillors, we have fought long and hard to establish our glorious society. We vanquished our last Human enemies - the Commo-wealth - after they betrayed us. Let us not let history repeat itself. These Humans are weak, as are the Phyr. See how they attack each other, not with vast armadas but with BB guns and rocks!
They are no match for the glory of the Respublica.
Truly, there is only one clear path for this in us. All other choices lead to an inevitable war. If we side with the Phyr, would we not be turning our backs on our own values by saying the Xenos are better than even Humans? No, such a choice opens us up for internal strife once again, only a short while after we have finally settled all doubt in our faith.
If we side with the Humans, are we not saying that our doctrine is weak - but also opening ourselves up once again for future betrayal? Will they not turn on us at the first opportunity they get, much like the Commo-wealth before them?
Certainly, we could ignore this conflict, but why? And to what end? Isn't that too just delaying an inevitable conflict between one, or both, of our enemies? Clearly too, the worlds that are there are ripe for the plucking! Full of rich resources, we could make great use of them.
No my Brothers, the time has come. The time has come for the Respublica to stand firm and resolute. To stand against our enemies and show once and for all that we will crush ALL who stand in our way. And that we will tolerate no betrayal, nor open up any future possibility of doubt or internal conflict.
Option D
I will not debase the glorious Respublica by voting for any other option.
They are no match for the glory of the Respublica.
Truly, there is only one clear path for this in us. All other choices lead to an inevitable war. If we side with the Phyr, would we not be turning our backs on our own values by saying the Xenos are better than even Humans? No, such a choice opens us up for internal strife once again, only a short while after we have finally settled all doubt in our faith.
If we side with the Humans, are we not saying that our doctrine is weak - but also opening ourselves up once again for future betrayal? Will they not turn on us at the first opportunity they get, much like the Commo-wealth before them?
Certainly, we could ignore this conflict, but why? And to what end? Isn't that too just delaying an inevitable conflict between one, or both, of our enemies? Clearly too, the worlds that are there are ripe for the plucking! Full of rich resources, we could make great use of them.
No my Brothers, the time has come. The time has come for the Respublica to stand firm and resolute. To stand against our enemies and show once and for all that we will crush ALL who stand in our way. And that we will tolerate no betrayal, nor open up any future possibility of doubt or internal conflict.
Option D
I will not debase the glorious Respublica by voting for any other option.
taplonaplo
Scholar
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2008
- Messages
- 628
ABCD
If the Hin'in war taught us anything, it's that 2 sides bleeding each other will screw over both of them. Let them exhaust themselves, and when peace is in sight, join one side, then when the enemy is defeated finish off with your ally.
If the Hin'in war taught us anything, it's that 2 sides bleeding each other will screw over both of them. Let them exhaust themselves, and when peace is in sight, join one side, then when the enemy is defeated finish off with your ally.
DACB
a vote for B is a vote for failure. FAITH rejected codexia when it was much more open-minded and friendly to fellow humans so just try to imagine what they'd say to us now... (and, iirc, in the update after we sided with the commo against the hin'in the general public wasn't all too happy about helping the heretics, right? what would the public think if we sided with some heretics again? and that just right after the last ones we sided with betrayed us and attacked our homeworld. B is just asking for disaster).
let us burn the furries and purge the heretics! their worlds are already developed, settled and (re)terraformed so it would make sense to colonize those first... and if that means a genocide or two along the way, then so be it
a vote for B is a vote for failure. FAITH rejected codexia when it was much more open-minded and friendly to fellow humans so just try to imagine what they'd say to us now... (and, iirc, in the update after we sided with the commo against the hin'in the general public wasn't all too happy about helping the heretics, right? what would the public think if we sided with some heretics again? and that just right after the last ones we sided with betrayed us and attacked our homeworld. B is just asking for disaster).
let us burn the furries and purge the heretics! their worlds are already developed, settled and (re)terraformed so it would make sense to colonize those first... and if that means a genocide or two along the way, then so be it
juggernaut
Educated
ADBC
laclongquan
Arcane
I urge my fellow councillors to deviate from the war with both of them.
For one thing, even if we can squash the lot, the price wont worth it.
For another, dont forget that we still have the quiescent Commo protectorate worlds that just waiting for a chance to revolt. They got more in common with FAITH so they could easy get sympathies from there. We need to maintain peace so that the rebellion threat wont materialize.
For a third, the Hiin, the Raumen are still waiting out there.
For a fourth, our own economy just get off the grounds from decades of fighting, and now you want to dunk them just to fight those small fries?
Leave them alone in their own pitiful war. We have a whole Dead Zone out there to colonize. That endevour require our full attention, our considerable economic might, and our zealous will. It's divine favour that our two early-coming competitors are busy locking horns with each other. Dont squander that!
For one thing, even if we can squash the lot, the price wont worth it.
For another, dont forget that we still have the quiescent Commo protectorate worlds that just waiting for a chance to revolt. They got more in common with FAITH so they could easy get sympathies from there. We need to maintain peace so that the rebellion threat wont materialize.
For a third, the Hiin, the Raumen are still waiting out there.
For a fourth, our own economy just get off the grounds from decades of fighting, and now you want to dunk them just to fight those small fries?
Leave them alone in their own pitiful war. We have a whole Dead Zone out there to colonize. That endevour require our full attention, our considerable economic might, and our zealous will. It's divine favour that our two early-coming competitors are busy locking horns with each other. Dont squander that!
Conkrete Knight
Educated
Damn, those technologies the "faithful" got give me a raging hardon, from strictly strategical point of view of course.
ANY form of peacefull contact would however fuck our state up real good.
I shudder at the possibility of blackmarket import of biomods.
The Phyr are to uncontrollable because of their numbers and aggressiveness.
They have to be removed simply because of that.
Also: Listen to the words of the Underlord, they carry truth.
In conclusion:
DABC
Let god sort them out.
ANY form of peacefull contact would however fuck our state up real good.
I shudder at the possibility of blackmarket import of biomods.
The Phyr are to uncontrollable because of their numbers and aggressiveness.
They have to be removed simply because of that.
Also: Listen to the words of the Underlord, they carry truth.
In conclusion:
DABC
Let god sort them out.
MasterSmithFandango
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 7,269
BACD
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