The Codexian Saga LP

[Heechee]

1. Cease-fire should be announced unilaterally as a show of a good will. 2. Diplomats should be sent immediately - we should try to negotiate either complete demilitarization of the Raumen space, or 50-50 split, or 33-66 split (majority for Hin'in), in this order of preference. 3. Commonwealth should be offered participation on a completely new, federative, decentralized Neocodexian People's Republic. If they refuse, let them go. 4. Remnants of the fleet should be repaired, but almost all industrial effort should concentrate on economic revitalization. 5. Small part of funds should be used in an extremely secret project on development of the Wunderwaffe based on intel about Hin'in obtained throughout the war.

 

[obediah]

hmm, well fuck us. I'm not sure how we got from trying to take the high road of helping the noodles to running the collapse of the soviet union as heechee1 pointed out.

I like the idea of this experiment, here are some of my initial thoughts.

* I think we need to pander to the masses a bit, what do the latest polls show from our citizens? Is there support for reabsorbing the commo through force?

* We need to quit banging our head against the hin'in wall. We either need to swallow our pride and sit down and talk about a treaty, or at least switch to a defensive posture and try to negotiate a cease fire.

 

[Jaedar]

We should try to negotiate with the commonwealth, we are bigger and stronger, they have much to gain by rejoining us. Taxes should be cut to aid the growth of the economy and sweeten the deal for the reunification.

As for the Hin, I agree a ceasefire should be negotiated.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

There are still many worlds still unsettled (all the phyr ones for example) so we don't need the commonwealth worlds that desperately. Neither do we have the capability to continue to wage war, thanks to all the councillors that lent ears to the traitorous and the weak.

Therefore:
Strike a deal with the commonwealth: Recognize them as a state if they a ) agree to pay the debts incurred during war b) agree not to accept any new members. A good negotiator should be able to convince them that this is cheaper than war. This will also give us some economic breathing room.

Strike a deal with the hin'in, too. Try to divide raumen space as evenly as possible.

If there is still discontent at home, declare martial law and suppress all talk of secession. Stop all non-essential miltary production and focus on rebuilding.

All of this is dependent on a deal with the hin'in though.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

alternatively, we could ALL defect to the commonwealth. I wonder how they would handle that.

I support this motion. Let's see how the barbarian would handle that

 

[Heechee]

It seems that a cease-fire and a focus on rebuilding of economy are really obvious choices. I would like to further clarify some finer points of my original proposal.

First, I believe some more radical change is necessary for the codexian socio-political system. Simple pressure won't work this time. Center-periphery conflict has been latent since the Phyrr refugee crisis. This war was far too costly for them to forget quickly. This is just a start of potentially long civil war. We cannot afford to wage guerilla warfare with colonials, not now, not any time soon. The proposal for establishment of the Neocodexian People's Federative Republic offers a viable choice. NPFR would offer strong autonomy to all systems in all matters except interstellar policy and defense, and embodies new hope for the masses. As additional point, interested Raumeni clans can freely join NPFR as federative units.

Second, complete demilitarization of the Raumeni space could be a better goal to follow during the negotiations. If the territory is split, we almost surely won't get proper half of it, since we are the weaker side. Furthermore, part of the territory which we actually get would again have to be policed - another pointless and costly guerilla warfare, which we do not want right now. Let it rather become a burned buffer, and concentrate our efforts somewhere else.

 

[praetor]

we can also use phyr engineering to rebuild the raumen worlds.

no need for that. as Conan pointed out, the worlds themselves were barely "touched" during the war (a primarily space-bound affair)

we definitely need to negotiate a cease-fire with the Hin'in. there's no way around that.

we should also probably leave bug-space since i doubt their resentment died out in the past months while they were rebuilding their military to retake their space from the xenos. and we really don't have the means to wage an anti-guerrilla war against the bugs any time soon.

focus should be put into rebuilding our economy, yes. but a fraction of the funds should be also put into rebuilding the fleets (to retake Commo worlds.. it's not a matter of resources as much as it is a matter of principle: you abandon Codexia when support was most needed? what kind of message are we sending to our kids if we accept their autonomy just like that? they need to be punished!)

we can recognize the Commo as a separate state and then declare war on them. more fun this way

and how about trying to contact the lizards? there are no bears to murder our diplomats this time and we could use a new trade partner (if they'd be willing, of course)

 

[madbringer]

This reminds me, how come we never used the Phyr refugees as cannon fodder/suicide bombers/glorious warriors for the Empire of Man?

Those furry mongrels should earn their right to reside on our worlds. Earn it in the cleansing fires of battle against The Enemy!

Anyway.

I lean towards councilman's Praetor's opinion. This man makes a lot of sense.

We leave Raumeni space. Call for a cease-fire with the Hin'in. Focus on rebuilding economy, make sure no other worlds defect to the "Commonwealth", while directing some generated cash into resupplying the navy.

I particularly like the idea about trying to establish communication with the merry lizardfolk on the other side of the former Phyr space. We're in a dire need of a trade partner, and the Hin'in and Raumen alike don't really fit the bill at this point. The last mission was shut down, but this time nothing stands in the way to getting in touch with them.

 

[TNO]

This council is agreed that further fighting is unwise. Further, we need to reach some accomodation with the breakaways. I accept both. Trade would be desirable with the new colonies, and I am open-minded to constitutional reform. I concur with Madbringer to consider the Turanei.

However, we shouldn't look for a cease-fire with the Hi'in. Now is the time to get the Raumen back on side. Pull out of any territorial gains we've made in Raumen space (for now - we don't have the resources to take and hold anyway). Tell them of our battle, and tell them the Hi'in are the weakest they will ever be, that now is their best chance to strike. The Raumen will hate us, and rightly so - however, the Hi'in are the greater threat to them.

We need to focus on an economic miracle. However, we must remember why we fought this awful war - to stop the Hi'in. The Hi'in are battered, but not defeated - we can't play passive and let them consolidate an advantage over us.

In sum.

Home policy:
Cuddle up to the commonwealth
Economic miracle time - little military growth until the economy can catch up

Foreign policy:
No cease-fire with the Hi'in.
Turanei?
Withdraw from Raumen space, and hope the Hi'in don't do the same.
Tell the Raumen how weak the Hi'in are - hope for an insurrection.
Tentatively look for trade/blood truce with Raumen.

 

[Jack]

I think we should work out an agreement with the Hin'in.
We could trade our Raumen Territory for profitable trade agreements and resources.
Then we could focus on killing the traitors and leave the Hin'in to deal with the Raumen problem.

 

[Luan]

I agree with councilor TNO regarding the Hin'in. This is not the time for a cease fire. This however does not mean continuing to engage them directly. Our noble cause was to stop them from subjugating our neighbors.

We should withdraw from Raumen territory and attempt diplomacy with the bugs to reopen trade channels. This will go a long way to re-stabilization and economic resurgence. We shall also attempt to rally them for a glorious cleansing of the battered Hin'in from their homeworlds. We should join in with this charge once we are recovered and able.

Regarding the treasonous scum, the commonwealth. They shall be purged, their time will come...

 

[treave]

The voting body will never be hard enough to fully take the grimdark path. Any attempts will be half-hearted and met with failure in the end. Only real choice we have is to be multikult now. Shifting mode from Imperium to Culture.

***

Considered course of action:
Attempt to engage Raumen help in brokering a ceasefire with the Hin'in by any means necessary.
Creation of a new Federation with greater autonomy for worlds and factions.
Attempt further contact with Turanei and Hin'in for multicultural exchanges.
Offer our AI technology as a gesture of goodwill.


Reasoning:
We should not declare a ceasefire unilaterally. That would not help in gaining Raumen trust - again we are acting on our own interests. What we should do is send our diplomats to the Raumen and inform them beforehand that we are planning to negotiate with the Hin'in for both quarters to pull out and create a demilitarized zone. If need be, we will apologize for interfering in their civil war and provide reasonable reparations that we can afford. We may offer interested Raumen clans membership in the Federation, or alternatively offer to help create a 'New' Raumen Confederacy with partnership in the Federation, where they are offered more control in their interstellar policy and nearly full autonomy militarily, as well as favourable trade conditions.

Next, with regards to the Commonwealth we have no choice but to offer peaceful re-absorption with greater autonomy. To sweeten the deal, military ties should be in the form of a pact, ala NATO. They will be allowed to raise their own military forces. We will still maintain control over interstellar policy, within reason. This will be subject to the successful formation of the Federation, of course. I propose should the idea take off, and the Barbarian continues with this experiment, we collectively debate and draw up a brief 18-point (or so) charter for the Founding of the Federation.

Contact with the Turanei is strongly encouraged, while if a ceasefire with the Hin'in is successful we must also approach them to rebuild both our battered empires. We can learn plenty from them.

Economically, I am hoping our overtures of friendship to the Raumen will help recruit their expertise in our recovery. Again, as mentioned; by all means necessary.

Therefore I propose sharing our AI with every race we know as a gesture of goodwill.

edit: I feel that the current name as proposed by heechee1, the NPFR, is perfectly fine and expressive, but I strongly suggest that we consider the acronym NCR as an alternative.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

The fuck? We pushed an offensive and cut back the military?

Who are the dumbasses responsible for that? I want names! If we had to go the military push option, we had to do it with more military might. Mark my words, accounts will be banned for this act of dumbassery!

Hmmm... I dislike this new lack of clear A/B/C choices.

Pros: At least we weren't totally boned by the Hin'in and they're fucked too. We also still have some-what of an economy.
Cons: We've got no military. Then again, neither does anyone else. Also, we have "the Commonwealth problem".

alternatively, we could ALL defect to the commonwealth. I wonder how they would handle that.

I support this motion. Let's see how the barbarian would handle that

For sheer lulziness alone, I endorse this motion.

 

[obediah]

I suggest we councillors gather on #irc (tonight, if possible) on the codexian channel (irc.gamesurge.net #fallout) and then move towards a more private channel, were we can discuss matters realt-time without having to resort to numerous posts that will probably add very little since this discussion is fucking long and immenselly important.

suggestions for time/date?

That's a really good idea, I don't think a consensus will be reached through forum posts. I can't participate, but if it makes for a more cohesive story, then I'm all for it.

 

[The Barbarian]

Hmmm... I dislike this new lack of clear A/B/C choices.

If the discussion over the next ten hours or so does not produce a satisfactory result, that's exactly what we'll be going back to.

 

[treave]

I suggest we councillors gather on #irc (tonight, if possible) on the codexian channel (irc.gamesurge.net #fallout) and then move towards a more private channel, were we can discuss matters realt-time without having to resort to numerous posts that will probably add very little since this discussion is fucking long and immenselly important.

suggestions for time/date?

also, as an aside, we could consider blockade of Leonid and orbital bombardment.

I am leaning more and more towards the path of grimdark. Multikult is just too easy. And yes, New Codexian Republic (fuck you treave, I thought up the exact same thing in class) would be adequate, should we choose the multikult way.

You should be paying attention in class, bro, not thinking up ways to exterminate traitors. Good thing that there's already a ready-made two-headed eagle flag for the NCR. Multikult is the only way to go now, we've proven that we can't handle grimdark. Plus I don't wanna hurt any xenos-lovers' sensitive feelings.

I'm not sure if I can participate in IRC, but I'm all for it. Just post the final transcript with inanity edited out on the forum later.

edit:

If the discussion over the next ten hours or so does not produce a satisfactory result, that's exactly what we'll be going back to.

I don't mind one way or another, but I feel the format of this current experiment will be more useful if we are negotiating major, important treaties or creating charters to define our system of government. Of course, too much choice makes it hard to manage the consequences at times. Let's see how this one pans out.

 

[laclongquan]

The War Front: Send delegates to Raumen and Hiin. Propose a 3side or 4sides peace convention (us, Hiin, raumen recognized by us, and maybe raumen recognized by Hiin). Offer of bilateral withdraw from Raumen territory to a Prewar status quo. We must be ready to total withdraw on our part, but hold out for same thing from Hiin. There's big chance they will agree to equal withdraw on both sides, which mean they will hold on a small portion of Raumen systems. Agree to that if we cant negotiate better. [The intent is still a buffer state of Raumen between Hiin and us. We intervened in the past mostly on the fear of Hiin-backed Raumen]

The Home Front: Put forward the formation of New Codexia Republic. Offer more equality for colonies, sweeten the deal to get the seceeded world rejoined. Try to ease the tensions. [the intent is to use carrot, not stick, with the current tensions. 1st is to stop the secession, 2nd priority is to get seceeded worlds back]

Diplomatic Front: Reestablish links with Raumen. We need those buggers. Point out to them that we stood by our friends in the past (3tone alliance) and dont currently hold Raumen territory, or manipulate them in any (which is total truth). If we send diplomatic envoys to Turanei dont be surprised if they are destroyed. Xenophobic, those lizard scums are. Do NOT try any lie or fancy dealing with Hiin. Telepathic, remember? See if we can get trade treaty with them, thoguh I shudder to think of those deals. We might get taken.

We hold the AI package in reserve. They dont cause trouble for us because the Council always hold the soulless menace in mind. If those aliens put their grubby tentacles on AI, who know what they will tinker? And when an AI Menace appear, who will get the blame? Human Codexia, that's who.

On a side note: the last war conduct with war production slashed because it's part of the package deal that doesnt get through. I want to temporary stop fighting and stop war spending but War faction want to push forward. The only console I can get from this is it could be worse: Continue war with increase production. We could never have won but the economy would be totally in ruin and the secession would have gone on a rampage.

 

[treave]

Actually I'd be surprised if the xenos took us up easily on any offers we made to install AIs in their factories and ships.

Imagine the opportunities for sabotage. Just introduce a back door here, and there, and with a flip of the switch all their base are belong to us.

 

[laclongquan]

A system, maybe? But a civilization got many such, so we got only oneshot. A terribly small threat.

What's fearsome is that the AI can hold an entire planet and remade it into a factory globe, then transform one star system. AI Menace here they come.

 

[treave]

We don't flip it until AI permeates every level of their lives and decision making levels. I'm thinking more along the lines of us being AI crusaders, advocating that every species we meet embrace the machine. Though some on the council will never condone that.

Since the AI Pandora's Box has been opened, why not be nice to them and grant them full citizenship and voting rights? AI didn't make the Commonwealth secede from us. I hold my onboard ship computer, Eddie, to be in far higher regard than any Leonid newfag.

 

[The Barbarian]

@barbarian, if we cannot decide this thing by mIRC, i ask of you to give us at least 48-hours (deadline's would be saturday afternoon GMT) to reach a consensus. 10 hours is too little.

The Barbarian will play it by ear. He will see if anything comes of the discussions before reverting to choice-based decisions.

 

[Nickless]

The fuck? We pushed an offensive and cut back the military?

Who are the dumbasses responsible for that? I want names! If we had to go the military push option, we had to do it with more military might. Mark my words, accounts will be banned for this act of dumbassery!

Hmmm... I dislike this new lack of clear A/B/C choices.

Pros: At least we weren't totally boned by the Hin'in and they're fucked too. We also still have some-what of an economy.
Cons: We've got no military. Then again, neither does anyone else. Also, we have "the Commonwealth problem".

alternatively, we could ALL defect to the commonwealth. I wonder how they would handle that.

I support this motion. Let's see how the barbarian would handle that

For sheer lulziness alone, I endorse this motion.

It's the disgusting compromise between the two main options of dealing with the issues at home, and going to war. It really was the worst option, and I don't think anyone actually supported it, however the dynamic contention between BBA and BAC/BAB was what really lead to the terrible result. I'm really sure the people who supported BAC would have shifted to BAB if it came down to it.

 

[Nickless]

I wholly support HeeChee1's proposal of reform and ceasefire. However I do feel that this change to a more decentralised government will lead to slow decision-making in times of crisis. Perhaps we could have a dictatorial clause, where in times of war/crisis, a combination of the military and civil sector can elect a dictator that has absolute power for a fixed term to effectively and quickly deal with the issue.

 

[wjw]

The War Front: Send delegates to Raumen and Hiin. Propose a 3side or 4sides peace convention (us, Hiin, raumen recognized by us, and maybe raumen recognized by Hiin). Offer of bilateral withdraw from Raumen territory to a Prewar status quo. We must be ready to total withdraw on our part, but hold out for same thing from Hiin. There's big chance they will agree to equal withdraw on both sides, which mean they will hold on a small portion of Raumen systems. Agree to that if we cant negotiate better. [The intent is still a buffer state of Raumen between Hiin and us. We intervened in the past mostly on the fear of Hiin-backed Raumen]

The Home Front: Put forward the formation of New Codexia Republic. Offer more equality for colonies, sweeten the deal to get the seceeded world rejoined. Try to ease the tensions. [the intent is to use carrot, not stick, with the current tensions. 1st is to stop the secession, 2nd priority is to get seceeded worlds back]

Diplomatic Front: Reestablish links with Raumen. We need those buggers. Point out to them that we stood by our friends in the past (3tone alliance) and dont currently hold Raumen territory, or manipulate them in any (which is total truth). If we send diplomatic envoys to Turanei dont be surprised if they are destroyed. Xenophobic, those lizard scums are. Do NOT try any lie or fancy dealing with Hiin. Telepathic, remember? See if we can get trade treaty with them, thoguh I shudder to think of those deals. We might get taken.

We hold the AI package in reserve. They dont cause trouble for us because the Council always hold the soulless menace in mind. If those aliens put their grubby tentacles on AI, who know what they will tinker? And when an AI Menace appear, who will get the blame? Human Codexia, that's who.

I agree with this course of actions on all options.

Extra arguments: WAR FRONT The Raumen will not surrender their worlds, it's best for us to negotiate our withdrawal and re-install a buffer state. The Raumen cannot fight back the Hi'in the coming year, and you can't unite them anyway, so don't count on that.

HOME FRONT: As much as i hate those planets for leaving us in the middle of a battle, it's in our best interest to lift up the Codexian Morale. Attacking our own people isn't a smart way doing that. Peacefull anexation however...

Diplomatics: Don't send envoys to the Turanei, leave them alone for now. If for some unknown reason we piss them off, they will kill us all.

Technology: Don't share it,... we need an economic advantage asap!

 

[wjw]

I am afraid i must decline Councillor Root... An unwanted deadline is approaching with rapid speed.