The Codexian Saga LP

[Zero Credibility]

Nice thread.

Try to make some kind of peace with the Hiin. Prefferably one where both sides withdraw from Raumen space, but dividing the teritory is also OK as long as the Raumen are OK with it - bring Raumen to the peace talks. This will boost our credibility with them.

Then deal with the "Commonwealth" traitors. They secceded in the middle of war, and not even because they were suffering casualties, but because they didn't like to pay taxes. Or they are under the influence of a psyker enemy - a rumor that might be useful to spread even if it is not true. Deal with them not as a single faction, but on a colony basis - call each colony seperatly to the table and explain to them the reality of the situation - compared to Codexia they have have next to no military or military production capabilities, and Codexia will not tolerate treason. But Codexia is merciful - offer full amnesty and face saving concessions. Promise them more political power when it comes to local matters. If you can get a few colonies to rejoin, the rest will follow. Those that do not have to be dealt with - blockade them and try talking to them after their economies collapse; arm the loyalist factions on the rebel colonies and go for a coup; and if everything else fails, take them out by force (but try to minimize casualties and damage - they are our people after all).

A question. Just what is the status of our AIs? Do they have full civil rights, limited rights or are they just property?

 

[Luan]

Grant amnesty to those willing to rejoin honorable Codexia. Grant them 1 week to make their decision. Those left shall be BURNED TO ASH.

 

[Heechee]

After a chat with luan, treave, juggernaut and nickless in #irc, we have devised a 5-point 'peace' plan. If the info we get from barbarian from my answers is favourable, however, we may chose to go on the warpath. until then, this is what we thought of.

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1) The War front: preferably a ceasefire with the hin'in downplaying our losses and upplaying theirs, if not, then I (root) suggest we push on the offensive if we are confident we can deal with the commonwealth and muster some raumen support. Luan also suggests we deal with the hin'in utilizing guerrila warfare with the raumen as soldiers. In negotiations with the Hin'in, use AIs to deal with them, after all, we don't want our minds being read, eh? Also, we will accept nothing less than full hin'in withdrawal from raumeni space.

2)The Commonwealth: We offer them NCR: Offer them decentralized government/full planetary authority, but central planning in times of crisis: meaning the 'commonwealth' gets seats on the Council. Military would be NCR's military; both codexian and commonwealth. Diplomatic service would also be unified. NCR essentially would be one nation, but with semi-independent worlds. Willing to offer the commonwealth worlds an 'immunity' from military draft for a set number of years. Economy will be de-regulated, but will remain 'guarded' by an autonomous panel of AIs, preventing economical extravangaza (stock market crashes, bank runs, and so on), but will be considerably less regulated than before, meaning that the commonwealth worlds will get a lot more freedom.

3) The raumen: Offer sympathetical raumeni clans the possibility of joining the NCR, offering full citizenship just like any other codexian, and seats at the council. In exchange, we ask them to share with us their superb craftsmanship and technology, and obviously we will give financial support and protection as needed. For the remaining raumen, we shall pursue peace, trade, and financial welfare for both our nations, and try to convince them that we had the best intentions at heart when we brought to them news of the hin'in.

4) the home front: increase of personal liberties: liberalization of bio- and gen- mods, recreational drugs, etc. easing on the law. heavy propaganda campaign suggesting our war with the hin'in was actually successful since we prevented the subjugation of the raumen (valuable trade partners), that we gained something from them, invest in culture (architecture, literature, music and so on) and if we manage to harvest some hin'in DNA, start our own psyker program with the gen and bio mods.

5) miscellaneous: turanei envoy: for possible consideration, especially if we are not confident with how the raumen negotiations will go. Concede AI citizenship rights, perhaps a seat in the council as well. Research Human-AI neural interface urgently.

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these are points for discussion, not a fully ratified proposal for the barbarian.

It seems a nice consensus has been reached.

However, I would like to point out that we need to achieve peace quickly as our first priority. Further fighting is not an option, therefore we should have several backup offers for the negotiation in case Hin'in refuse to form a demilitarized zone in the Raumeni space. I propose this order of offers: 1. Demilitarized zone in Raumeni space. 2. Both sides keep 25 % (adjecent) territory and middle 50 % is demilitarzed. 3. 50%-50% split. 4. 33% us, 66% them.

 

[laclongquan]

The point is that Raumen will resent us in any system that we hold. We need them happy with us enough to be our buffer, so that's why I propose a preparation of total withdraw. The point is the Hiin will be bargained down to a hold a portion of what they currently hold. Their current share might well turn on us given time so we need to reduce that. And any system that they hold will be an element of chaos inside theirs.

Free genmod plus hiin gene sample is one aspect I havent considered before. EDITTY EDIT to my original proposal.

 

[The Barbarian]

Ahh, Q&A.

1) how many world does the commonwealth hold, how many are rich in natural resources, which ones are highly industrialized?

Seven worlds; all rich in natural resources (they're entire worlds, after all) - even if those resources are underutilized; Leonid is the only one that is decently industrialized, but the rest are developing fairly quickly, as colonies are wont to do.

2) how popular is secession in the commonwealth among the common folk?

Very popular. Loyalists are a minority. Especially after you chose to avoid immediate intervention.

3) what is the current status of the raumen? (yes, i do mean a full report, unfortunately)

Insofar as it is pertinent, you may assume that they possess less than seven hundred warships (shared out between dozens of clans, with many more left with nary a military to call their own), that their economy is a mess (but is handling the pressure better than yours) and that they do not especially like you, at this point. Rather than Conan writing out five hundreds words of narrative description, he would rather that you feel free to ask for specifics, and then he will oblige with specific answers.

4) how many raumeni worlds we 'hold'? how far away are they from our/hin'in borders?

Roughly half. The Hin'in hold a slight advantage. Let's say... 60/40, in their favor.

5)what is the status of our military?

Utterly devastated. The update should give you a general idea.

6) how many worlds does codexia hold, and how much more productive/resourceful are they in comparison to the commonwealth's?

The Barbarian is not keeping tabs on the exact number of worlds held by each faction in the game universe (apart from in SotU updates). He prefers to deal with general adjectives, instead of hard numbers. It gives him leeway, and lowers the workload associated with this game (which is a good thing). That said, well over fifty.

The Commonwealth has, at most, 10% of your industrial potential - if that.

It is the United States to the British Empire of the 18th century.

7) do we have the ability to destroy an entire planet? failing that, do we have the ability to sterilize its surface?

On point one, no. On point two, more or less. 'Sterilize' in this case means 'destroy every major population center', not 'kill every living being'. At this point, the latter is impossible.

A question. Just what is the status of our AIs? Do they have full civil rights, limited rights or are they just property?

Limited rights; they're true artificial intelligences, but not necessarily 'sentient' in the same sense as human beings. Personalities (read: egos) were not emphasized in their development, and current generation AIs are just happy to serve a 'purpose' - whether that purpose is running a warship's systems or processing taxes. Whether that remains true in perpetuity...

 

[The Barbarian]

None are 'loyal' to you. Some sympathize with you, but the Three Tone Alliance is long dead. The Raumen, at this point, are looking out only for themselves. If you wish their co-operation in anything, be prepared to bid for it.

 

[treave]

Just a question, do the Commonwealth border any alien powers?

 

[Nickless]

I propose, that when there are multiple decisions, that votes should be taken more holistically. If I vote BAC, count the vote as one for BAC, not one for B, A, and C, as a lot of these decisions are interrelated to the core strategy.

 

[Angthoron]

Hmm, odd, I counted 8 votes for 3 B due to the many flip-flops resulting from endvote stage lobbying.

The outcome of continuing brutal assaults without battleships was predictable. What were you Councillors even thinking? To drown them in letters? Damn.

In any case, the only thing left to do now is to offer a truce. There is no reason for two strong empires to bleed each others to death. Our war showed us to be at least equal to other races in the sector, they know we won't relent, and that our tactics will only improve in the future.

Our fleet fought gloriously. Every single warrior is to be considered a hero; every hero that died is to be considered a hero twice. The families of the glorious dead are to receive pensions for the loss of their dear ones and a one-time Thank You reward from the name of all Codexian governments in form of a fair-sized new home or its equivalent. Construction companies performing this favour for the good of all the Codexia are to be given governmental subsidies and a special recognition among their peers by permitting of adding a Hin'in War Hero ribbon design to their company logo.

Grant all civilian operations that assisted Codexia in the time of need similar rewards - company recognition as a Hero of Codexia. All civilian workers of such plants, as well as doctors, nurses, safety officers and various related workforce are to be awardes with a Codexia Homeland Medal.

Finally, we must remove our fleets from the Raumen space and the condition of the truce should be that the Hin'in do so too. We can yet turn this into a noble liberation cause despite our best tries.

(Will add more later due to being at work actually)

 

[laclongquan]

Do note the ratio of 60-40 Raumen territory Hiin and we hold, respectively. If we negotiate successfully, a full withdraw on both side. Bargain hard and maybe the Raumen is reduced to 80% of their prewar territory and the Hiin hold 20. May the those bugs be a bigger thorn in Hiin's asses than in ours!

Anyway, the last experiment is a failure. I mean, I want a delay strategy, so I vote one way. The war faction want continue war so they vote another. In the end both dont get their own full package deal but the worst of all compromise: attack with insufficient strength. So I'd like Conan to refrain from such oddity in future. And this is another strike on my black book of investigation on "Conan a mindslave".

 

[Angthoron]

Anyway, the last experiment is a failure. I mean, I want a delay strategy, so I vote one way. The war faction want continue war so they vote another. In the end both dont get their own full package deal but the worst of all compromise: attack with insufficient strength. So I'd like Conan to refrain from such oddity in future. And this is another strike on my black book of investigation on "Conan a mindslave".

I do have to agree here, the last multi-choice was a bit of a disaster - most people voted to continue the war, but then the decision about funding went completely belly-up and it was too hard to lobby/decide on. If I may, I'd recommend splitting economy and military sessions before a mega-update. That format may actually be beneficial for the Barbarian's exam schedule as well.

The reason I recommend this is that there should be clear decision on what to do, and then a clear decision on how to pay for it - not both at once.

Just a suggestion though.

 

[Maria]

Having enjoyed my last exam before summer I've read up on everything since I last posted and I must say that I enjoyed the last question and following discussion very much. The fact that we could have a decision that ended as it did now with continued war and no resupply is lovely and I want more of it. Screw game mechanics and choice-balance, we had our chance to vote exactly what we wanted on and councilors united on the questions closest to them.

Mr Barbarian, I salute you!

 

[Angthoron]

Regarding our plans for the xenoes:

1) Aim for a peace treaty with the Hin'in being our primary goal. In the negotiations, we attempt to agree to settling for the pre-war borders or bust. If they disagree, we continue the "war" "effort".

2) Send emissaries to the Raumen, alerting them of the ongoing peace treaty attempt and its terms

3) Broadly illuminate Codexia's efforts of trying to stay fair to its neighbour despite its mal-informed declaration of war on us. Illuminate our emissaries' goals - we wish for peace in our neighbourhood, our citizens have shed blood, sweat and tears to buy this peace, and saved the homeworlds from even the slightest signs of invasion. Our war is to be illuminated as a defensive war with the intent of aiding our neighbour and defending our worlds.

4) Open peace treaty negotiations with the Raumen with terms similar to the Hin'in - pre-war parity and preservation of borders.

5) If both sides agree to the peace plans, begin plans for a three-side alliance. Yes, we fought a war, yes, our citizens do not like each others. They don't have to like each others - the alliance or the pact is there to insure that neither side will plot against the other in secret, and a trio is a good number to make certain one side doesn't pull a blanket to itself.

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[Maria]

Finally we have a chance to get a solid trade partner that can think straight, our Codexian core worlds produce millions of tons of surplus wares that the Commonwealth can purchase from us. I say we accept the breakaway planets as they are and set up trade and military cooperation. It will decrease the area of space our navy has to patrol and enable us to focus our navy at things that matter.

Will the Hin' accept a peace treaty? The last time peace was on the menu we stabbed them in the back and tried to rally everyone against them..

 

[treave]

How will the Barbarian keep track of how much support each 'answer' has?

 

[Angthoron]

I would agree with the Councillor here about the decision regarding the break-away worlds. Even if we'd want to take them back by force now, we can't, thanks to some of our wise Councillors voting for disarmament in the key phase of war operations.

There's no point of keeping them. They should be let go, and we will trade with. Our dissenters can be offered free tickets to the off-worlds.

However, since they couldn't even wait til the end of the world, their choice will have a consequence. They will not receive special deals. Their prices will be same as the prices we offer to any other external trading partners.

How will the Barbarian keep track of how much support each 'answer' has?

Good question.

 

[Maria]

However, since they couldn't even wait til the end of the world, their choice will have a consequence. They will not receive special deals. Their prices will be same as the prices we offer to any other external trading partners.

Naturally, there's no such thing as a two eye discount when selling to other empires. They'll have to stand in the same line as our 64 eyed and 52 legged "friends".



My suggestion is as follows:

The Maria-doctrine
* Accept the Commonwealth and start up trade and military cooperation, that way we can try to get our ruined economy back on track and our military to focus on our real enemies.

* Sue for peace with the Hin'. It does not have to be the pre war borders but it must be fair for all (us and the Hin' that is). We can't look like we lost the war to our populace. Very very important not to get a rebellion on our hands now.

* Sue for peace with the Raumen. If possible we try to get a three part arrangement concerning who gets what but they must remember that we and the Hin' won this fight and the Raumen are last. We try to get the Raumen satisfied but if it can't be done then we try as best as we can.


More actions may be added to this doctrine later on as they arise.

 

[The Barbarian]

How will the Barbarian keep track of how much support each 'answer' has?

A very good question.

In fact, the Barbarian is right now formulating an option-based choice taking into consideration the discussion hitherto. He does not think the experiment is going well. Cest la vie.

Just a question, do the Commonwealth border any alien powers?

No, though the colonies in question are not that far away from Raumen space.

I propose, that when there are multiple decisions, that votes should be taken more holistically. If I vote BAC, count the vote as one for BAC, not one for B, A, and C, as a lot of these decisions are interrelated to the core strategy.

The only reason this is made more difficult is because of exactly what happened in that last round of voting. If the Barbarian had taken your BAC vote as a consolidated unit, then 'BAC' might have won with four out of twenty votes.

Conan will ponder alternative resolutions for multi-option choices.

 

[madbringer]

I like the consensus reached by the IRCmind. I don't like the notion of forging a lasting peace treaty with the Hin'in. It would effectively nullify the purpose of the Great Sacrifice made by brave Codexian warriors in the recent war. What message would that send to the general populace? I can already see more and more worlds spiraling into the Commonwealths ready, sweaty hands.

However, reaching a comfortable political status quo with the Raumen should be a priority. We can't let them think that we're as bad as the four eyed midgets. As our immediate neighbours, they still are, or at least, will be in the forseeable future, an important trade partner and, again, the buffer zone against our newest foe.

edit: As far as multi-layered choices go, i think it would be wise if Conan'd allow us a 'grace period' between the final vote tallies. Say, a warning stating that the votes are in, and we have one or two hours to flipflop, should we so desire. I would allow us review the current choices in correlation to each other, giving us a chance to avoid clusterfucks, like what happened last time.

 

[treave]

Codexians are far too disorganized to present joint answers in a short amount of time I suppose.

That the Commonwealth doesn't directly border a rival is somewhat heartening.

With the previous multi-option choice round I think the problem was that no one was keeping track of which options were ahead.

Think of it as everyone participating in a drug-fueled haze of drunken voting and by the end of it all tomorrow morning Azira's the only one with a while the others are horrified at what they've done.

 

[Azira]

*cue Evil Laughter*

Yep. Everything worked out exactly as I planned.

 

[The Barbarian]

As far as multi-layered choices go, i think it would be wise if Conan'd allow us a 'grace period' between the final vote tallies. Say, a warning stating that the votes are in, and we have one or two hours to flipflop, should we so desire. I would allow us review the current choices in correlation to each other, giving us a chance to avoid clusterfucks, like what happened last time.

Conan is inclined to agree with you.

 

[obediah]

Hmm, odd, I counted 8 votes for 3 B due to the many flip-flops resulting from endvote stage lobbying.

The outcome of continuing brutal assaults without battleships was predictable. What were you Councillors even thinking? To drown them in letters? Damn.

Nickless put forth the most likely reason for this in the post before yours. The three answers were not given independently by councilors, but the votes were tallied independently. I would like to hope that very few people actually voted for that combination.

I propose, that when there are multiple decisions, that votes should be taken more holistically. If I vote BAC, count the vote as one for BAC, not one for B, A, and C, as a lot of these decisions are interrelated to the core strategy.

The only reason this is made more difficult is because of exactly what happened in that last round of voting. If the Barbarian had taken your BAC vote as a consolidated unit, then 'BAC' might have won with four out of twenty votes.

Conan will ponder alternative resolutions for multi-option choices.

Here are some ideas:

1) (a variation on madbringer's idea) You could fix the three different votes at six hour intervals. At the end of regular voting, you would say "here are the votes, point #1 has been set to 'A', you now have 6 hours to change your votes for #2, #3. Then six hours letter set point #2 and provide another short window to change the final votes.

2) Modify 1 to include a vote on the most important issue, and the issue that wins that vote is decided first, and all others votes share a single window for changing.

3) When appropriate, you could reduce the combinatorics by grouping several binary questions together and chosing the combination with the most votes. This isn't any different than having 4 choices to choose from, but it might better illustrate the difference between those 4 choices.

 

[Azira]

I condone the plan put forth by councillors root et al.

 

[The Barbarian]

For this particular choice, the Barbarian will most likely accept the 5-point plan agreed upon by several voters - rather than dragging the turn out, indefinitely. If anyone has anything to add, or is seriously opposed to one or more facets of the plan, the next twelve hours or so constitute your final opportunity to air your concerns.

Reflecting upon the discussion during this round, the Barbarian is not convinced that it is a more efficient means of CnC than binary choice and its ilk.

As such, we will be reverting to said form of resolution as of next turn.