The Codex's official opinion on VtM Bloodlines

[SoupNazi]

Yeaaaah...

Bloodlines soundtrack sucked.

The only good tune was the opening theme, and it's a blatant rip off of Massive Attack.

Everything else was p. fucking good though

Chiasm - Isolated was very good too. It's the music that plays in the club.

 

[treave]

I'm seeing some very liberal shifting of the goalposts in this topic.

 

[Azrael the cat]

2) Also, I'm talking strictly about cRPG players here; PnP fans of WoD can have any opinion they want, but it's largely irrelevant, the same way it would be irrelevant for me to criticize a PnP game based on what I expect from a computer game.

Which is amusing since i'm not discussing how good or bad the game is but how much of a good or bad adaptation the game is. I said it was a playable game, i also said it was an awful adaptation. Learn to read, then try again to answer me.

Again, what better adaptation you know (count consoles in as well if you must)?

So? That doesn't make it a good adaptation but, at most, a good for what it is adaptation. This is already on my original post, since I already said most adaptations are awful. So?

An in-game character is only as good as it is inside the game itself, what it may refer to outside the game world is irrelevant.

And? Again, that was outside both me saying it was a playable games and it saying it was an awful adaptation. So? Again, learn to read. Then answer me, not before.

I don't think it was either contrived or uncomfortable.

It's contrived and uncomfortable from the point of being an adaptation. I did not say anything about the gameplay of that particular scene. Again, the discussion is whether it is a good or bad adaptation, since all the things people has quoted were about it's quality as an adaptation and not as a game.

Where exactly did you pull that from, especially the "laser cannon'ing the general area from orbit and report an asteroid did it" part? You think that would fit better, instead of completely breaking the setting?

That's actually a part of the setting, known as The Technocracy. The same Technocracy that turned half of India into a wasteland to kill Ravnos. The same technocracy that believes any evidence of supernatural activity, even circunstantial, is a subersive breach on the structure of reality and must be eliminated before it can extend, no matter what needs to be done as they can always say a meteority did it. The same technocracy that controls most media, that has standard agents who leave J.C.Denton as a homebrew piece of antique tech, have a self suficient space station, a bunch of interestellar starships with orbital bombardment capabilities, extraterrestrial colonies, extradimensional colonies, self suficient war machines, an army of faceless elite military forces, and not a small amount of technomancers.

That's the setting's canon. So I believe that a bunch of MiBs trying to control a subversive breach on the paradigm of reality would be a more canonical cameo, and a better one given the situations happening on the game, than the hengeyokai, or the werewolves as shown in the game, that are nothing as werewolves outside furry and angry.

In other words, if the fish guy or the werewolves weren't there you wouldn't wonder where they were. You kind of have to wonder, though, how comes every single night zombies arise on a graveyard in the middle of hollywood and neither the Euthanatos nor the Techies heard about it, how comes no one went hysterical screaming Nephandus when that film was going around, and how come a veritable army of fleschcrafted monstrosities managed to go unoticed by the Black Spiral Dancers, the Shadow Court, the Euthanatoi death cults, the Earthbound cults, the bloody sluaghs, the thalain, and all the other two hundred things that live down there and are more than able to kick a ghoul mutant butt to hell and back, thrice. Or, again, how was it that a bloody army of things that shouldn't be went unoticed by the Technocracy.

Any of those would have been crossoverish cameos that made sense given those events. The werewolves and the hengeyokai were just thrown in for the lulz.

People like you ruin adaptations. There's no point in doing an adaptation unless you're willing to change the canon to suit the medium. Doesn't mean you HAVE to change the canon. But if you're thinking 'is this power/faction/creature/event precisely the same as in the original work' rather than 'does this capture the feeling, the themes and the chemistry of the original, and does it work as a self-contained original work in its own right' you're not going to produce anything worthwhile.

 

[ghostdog]

It's a bad adaptation of a shitty setting, which ultimately makes it a good game.


/retarded argument.

 

[Black Cat]

People like you ruin adaptations. There's no point in doing an adaptation unless you're willing to change the canon to suit the medium. Doesn't mean you HAVE to change the canon. But if you're thinking 'is this power/faction/creature/event precisely the same as in the original work' rather than 'does this capture the feeling, the themes and the chemistry of the original, and does it work as a self-contained original work in its own right' you're not going to produce anything worthwhile.

I never said it should include any of those things. I said it had many threads that were conductive to a canonical crossover or cameo. Instead of using those, though, they decided to throw others that had nothing to do with the story, the plot, or the setting (in the way they were adapted) just because they were cool.

Again, context. That thread on the discussion was about whether or not the cameos were gratuitous and badly done, not whether or not there should be cameos. If you aren't going to do crossovers and cameos, ok, you don't need to care about that. If you are going to do both, then those should respect the setting instead of throwing things in for the lulz.

Throwing encounters that make no sense inside the setting does not make a good adaptation. Again, i'm not saying things should be exactly as in the original setting but saying they shouldn't contradict most stuff about it on the setting. Notice the small difference.

It's a bad adaptation of a shitty setting, which ultimately makes it a good game.

Sure, but it's still a bad adaptation, which was the entire point. Not whether the game was good or bad, not whether the setting was good or bad. I'm not even a fan of the setting, i like some things and dislike others.



It's kind of amusing most people here seems to believe that opposing an erroneus argument or thought process is to be a desperated fan of the thing against which such thought process was directed instead of just someone who dislike retards who can't into coherent arguments while believing themselves the intellectual elite.

 

[aweigh]

FAGGY PNP CANNOT INTO PC GAME. They're two different things. They must be ADAPTED.

Since Bloodlines is a GREAT, GREAT PC GAME, it means it was a good ADAPTATION. Get it? Do I really need to explain it further?

 

[Mortmal]

If you think troika game was an awful adaptation of the pnp setting , i wonder what you will think of CCP world of darkness game. Theres not much info on it but its supposed to be aimed to female gamers with an emphasis on social interaction.
That video footage is supposed to be derived from that game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrtwESnTOwY&feature=player_embedded

No really this was an awesome computer game, computer games are never really faithful to the pnp settings, they hardly even captured D&D feeling altough its a much simplier system. World of darkness or ars magica cant be adapted to a computer except with tremendous amount of works, those are not hack and slash games, a pnp session is often lot of talks, lot of freedom , and very few fights if any at all.

 

[Black Cat]

FAGGY PNP CANNOT INTO PC GAME. They're two different things. They must be ADAPTED.

Since Bloodlines is a GREAT, GREAT PC GAME, it means it was a good ADAPTATION. Get it? Do I really need to explain it further?

Since a lot of people seems to believe Fallout 3 is an awesome, amazing, beautiful, deep game it means it was a good adaptation of the Fallout setting, right?

Theres not much info on it but its supposed to be aimed to female gamers with an emphasis on social interaction.

I haven't been following the game, really.

But the emphasis on social interaction probably means it will be a much closer to what real WoD looks like on a P&P setting since the emphasis on let's LARP is what makes it a P&P game lots of girls and artsy fags can get into. I'm, again, not saying such a thing is good or bad, just stating a bloody fact. Leave me outside any judgement values of it.

 

[aweigh]

Mortmal don't bother. These morons don't understand what an adaptation is.

God I need to lay down. My chest hurts from all the nerd-raging black cat and the other fag made me feel.

 

[acolyte]

BlackCat:

I'm not trying to answer you, or convince you. I disagree with the way you view this; I view it differently and said why, and on what grounds. Who has to learn to read, I wonder.

BlackCat wrote:
Also, it must have been one of the most pedestrian and boring adaptations of the world of darkness ever made
acolyte wrote:
I rather think it's the single best adaptation of WoD's Vampire: The Masquarade setting for the PC. Again, what better adaptation you know (count consoles in as well if you must)?
BlackCat wrote:
So? That doesn't make it a good adaptation but, at most, a good for what it is adaptation. This is already on my original post, since I already said most adaptations are awful. So?

I said it's the best. You know, as in "better than all the others"? For a VtM pc game? You say it is "one of the most pedestrian and boring adaptations"? Really? What VtM pc/console game was better then? (I assume we're talking about pc games, right?)

 

[PorkaMorka]

Terrible first person shooter.

Limited adventure and roleplaying elements which taper off and have a very limited presence in the second half of the game.

Shouldn't we be having this discussion on "Adventure/FPS with Stats" Codex?

Anyway, Deus Ex did it better.

 

[Black Cat]

I said it's the best. You know, as in "better than all the others"? For a VtM pc game? You say it is "one of the most pedestrian and boring adaptations"? Really? What VtM pc/console game was better then? (I assume we're talking about pc games, right?)

Re-read the phrase you are quoting. It says adaptation. It doesn't say PC game. I said it's one of the most pedestrian and boring adaptations of the material to a new medium, not that's one of the most pedestrian and boring adaptations of the material to a PC game. You said it's the best adaptation to a PC game.

So the point is it's good for what it is. It may be an awful adaptation of the setting since it doesn't keep the themes nor the element of the setting, but since there's none better it's good?

I'm saying Most adaptation of WoD to a new medium suck.
You are saying But there's no better adaptation to a PC game!
I'm saying Ok, then it's good for what it is.
You are saying No, then it's good!

What? That doesn't follow.

 

[aweigh]

Before I head out to murder Black Cat and get locked up, I'd like to quickly point out that Fallout 3 is not an adaptation, it is a sequel.

 

[Black Cat]

These morons don't understand what an adaptation is.

You didn't dispute what we thought was an adaptation. You disputed that since it is a good game it's a good representation of the material it's adapting. Given good game it's a completely subjective matter, you are implying how given many players and critics believe the first third of Dante's Inferno to be very good it means it's a good adaptation from the first third of the literary piece, and how given many players thought UBIK was a good game it means it's a good adaptation of the novel, even when it has almost nothing in common with it.

So, is that what you are saying? I'm just curious.

Also, i mentioned Fallout 3 just because some thought it was bad as a game on the main Fallout franchise but it would have been better, even good, as just a spin off into a different genre. Also, an adaptation's definition doesn't include just mediums but also demographics or even markets, so adapting the Fallout setting and gameplay to a new market and demographic was, indeed, an adaptation.

 

[Glyphwright]

Why were two dozens of Camarilla vampires blatantly violating the Masquerade during the bloodhunt other than to give you a vampire rush before reaching the cab?

It's your assumption they were violating the Masquerade - the streets were deserted of any human life by that time. Consider that LA was falling apart at that moment, and that the game is set right before Gehenna and the end of the world - outstanding events are allowed to happen under such conditions.

Was there any point in hiding Nines Rodrigez in werewolf territory other than just making you fight some werewolves?

Well, he had to be hiding SOMEWHERE, so it might as well have been somewhere remote, different and dangerous - suits his macho "walking-on-the-edge-of-the-blade" kind of personality.

The problem is we are talking about the World of Darkness, where things work in one particular way, and not a world of darkness.

Yes, a big big problem.

You can't read, right? In the line you quoted i said Troika sucked at World of Darkness, not that the game sucked but that they fail at the setting, which they do. In the first paragraph i wrote, about the game, could have been better but it's pretty playable. So, where did i said Bloodlines was a bad game, again? Retard.

The World of Darkness was the setting of VTMB, it's kind of an integral part of the game. Only in the colourful mind of a teenage girly girl can a game set in a screwed up setting be "pretty playable".
Again, if the setting does not work - the plot does work - the characters do not work - nothing works. The game falls apart and turns into a dynamic panorama of pixels.
What you're really trying to say is "upon reading White Wolf paperback material I noticed some moments in VTMB were not entirely faithful to hem" to which I have already told you - nobody cares.

I did not say anything against having a Chinatown populated by Asian supernaturals. I said, first, the Hengeyokai being here was, to begin with, an stretch in the setting. Second, it was a stretch while adding nothing to the game, being just thrown in for the lulz and the pop references. And given what we see on the game that girl wasn't a demon huntress, as she doesn't show any of the peculiarities hunters do in the setting, but a girl with a sword who tried to melee a shapeshifter along some random girl who was turned into a vampire three nights before. That's not a recipe to get XP at the end of the session, really.

Nobody cares about any of that. The game establishes that Zygaena was a shapeshifter and that Yukio was trained as a demon huntress by her master. It added an interesting sidequest and a pretty stylish bossfight to the game. You can cry all you want that the supplemental material to a sideline rulebook to the Revised Edition of a main series corebook says that Hengeyokais cannot into travel and that demon hunters cannot into looking like normal people - nobody cares.

Again, you can't read, nor think. Do you notice I said one random example? You have, on one hand, a setting full of supernatural entities which overlaping claims on land, mortals, and power bases. Then, you have that at least half those supernatural groups have their own version of the Masquerade, and an implied point on them all is that they must hide the supernatural as a whole and not just their own presence. Then, several factions of those supernatural groups have ideals and beliefs that pushes them to actively protect humanity or hunt those they perceive as evil. Any of those situations would have been closer to the setting that fighting sharkboy along an asian schoolgirl that was a hunter only in name.

OMG, who cares. You have a bunch of books about supernaturals living among normal people, you take some of those to make a videogame, and leave the rest alone so as not to overload your game with freakish monsters. Again, you have no point aside from "Umm, I like nephandi more than shapeshifters, VTMB bad bad game for having the latter instead of the former". Grow up.

What's contrived is that he went to werewolf territory and had not yet turned into toothpaste when you got there, and that the werewolves actually did not attack the bloody vampire in their territory until someone burned down the trees because all of a sudden werewolves are greenpace instead of territorial, pack-minded, furry war machines that don't really get along with vampires and against a pack of whom a vampire Sired during the great depression had even less chances than against dawn.

Did you get the part where Nines was HIDING in Griffith Park?

My point is that you mentioned things I never said I had a gripe with and whose mention shows you don't really understand my gripe with those I had one. Having a Nagloper, eastern Kindred, or even a Nagaraja in your Vampire game doesn't need justification since they are part of the Vampire setting. Once you go into crossover territory you actually need to have a good reason, other than it's cool!, to have them here but not bring with them their motivations, limitations, attitudes, etc.

Not really. Got Hengeyokai? WoD creature? Part of Kindred of the East which is a standalone Vampire line? Throw in. That's all the reason there needs to be.

If you throw in shapeshifters who do not act like they should

He was indeed acting as shapeshifters should act - pretending to be a normal human while stalking somebody who was trying to stalk him.

We have shown you many aspects on which it is a bad adaptation and by which it contradicts what is established by the setting, again regardless of how you or I feel about those elements of the setting

And I have told you these aspects are completely irrelevant. You can keep saying "this is bad, this is bad, this is bad" all you want - it doesn't add to your point.

Good Adaptation =/= Good Game.
Bad Adaptation =/= Bad Game.

Easier now?

A game can change elements, choose to include elements, and choose to exclude elements and details from the paperback edition and still be a good adaptation if it captures the mood and the thrill of the original. In other words, just because you read the books and still have certain details written by White Wolf people fresh in your mind doesn't mean Troika people are required to capture every single one of them. The videogame has its own way of representing Vampire, and in case of Bloodlines, it's a good one. Easier now?

Which means the true ending is both you and Nines being slaughtered by the wolves. snip.

If you only payed attention to the game you played, you would have seen that Troika people recognized this by having the protagonist's strikes have no effect on the werewolf. You don't really fight it, you just run from it for five minutes. As for the rest: nerdage?You do understand an adaptation can be good without being 100% accurate?

 

[Glyphwright]

For reference all of those are stated to have some form of magic, or come from some society of mages. Or have a conflict with a society of mages.

What I said was "Vampire does not include elements from Mage. None of the creatures you mentioned are part of the Mage gameline. They are part of the Vampire gameline. Oh, sure, some of them may have CONNECTIONS to Mage (Tremere descent from former mages etc.). But that's different.

In terms of the PnP universe, the scourge is considered a vital part of the domain

VTMB does not have a scourge, period. The people who took you in the beginning were random leftover models from character generation.

Same thing, it's just a the eastern/beast courts version of the rokea. The creature itself was a Same-Bito. They still don't leave the water

Not all Rokea, however, remain in the water. Although it is considered an abomination and a blasphemy to do so by most Dimwaters, many Rokea, especially Brightwaters and Darkwaters, often come unto Unsea and are so fascinated with it that they decide to stay. Some Betweeners have other reasons - maybe they are being hunted by other weresharks, for instance - but most come out of curiosity and stay out of satisfaction. Betweeners earn their name because they cannot truly stay on land nor do they desire to live in the water. A wereshark who does not return to Sea regularily will lose his shapeshifting ability forever. To avoid such a fate, Betweeners travel along shorelines, spending some times as humans but always returning to the ocean for sustenance from Sea.

Then why the fuck didn't both of them attack you at once, unless your talking about 2 in the sense of both the Rokea and the generico war form werewolf

You don't really remember the game you're arguing about, do you? In Griffith Park two werewolves came out. One went for Nines and one went for the protagonist.

you argue they stay true to the universe

You're deluding yourself.

 

[Reject_666_6]

FAGGY PNP CANNOT INTO PC GAME. They're two different things. They must be ADAPTED.

Since Bloodlines is a GREAT, GREAT PC GAME, it means it was a good ADAPTATION. Get it? Do I really need to explain it further?

Bro, you need to post more often.

 

[acolyte]

I'm saying Most adaptation of WoD to a new medium suck.
You are saying But there's no better adaptation to a PC game!
I'm saying Ok, then it's good for what it is.
You are saying No, then it's good!

If you want to point out what I'm saying, you'd better quote me, not paraphrase me. Are we circlejerking here?

Also, it must have been one of the most pedestrian and boring adaptations of the world of darkness ever made

I rather think it's the single best adaptation of WoD's Vampire: The Masquarade setting for the PC. Again, what better adaptation you know (count consoles in as well if you must)?

So? That doesn't make it a good adaptation but, at most, a good for what it is adaptation. This is already on my original post, since I already said most adaptations are awful. So?

I said it's the best. You know, as in "better than all the others"? For a VtM pc game? You say it is "one of the most pedestrian and boring adaptations"? Really? What VtM pc/console game was better then? (I assume we're talking about pc games, right?)

Where did I say it's a good adaptation? Where did this "You are saying No, then it's good!" come from? Do you know the difference of words like "good" and "best"? Do I have to italicize every word to point it out?

I didn't and won't judge how good of an adaptation it is (apart that I think it's the best for a pc game to ever come out). As I hinted at the beginning, I think it's irrelevant. You're free to think otherwise, of course. But, for the sake of argument, since you said:

Also, it must have been one of the most pedestrian and boring adaptations of the world of darkness ever made

you have to come up with at least one example of a better (less "pedestrian", less "boring") adaptation. Adaptation of the WoD's VtM, and for a pc/console game. That's what I asked. I think it's fair enough of me to have asked you to back up your claim, don't you agree? Or at least say something like 'we're not talking about games, but about ...', so that I can stop wasting my time. I thought this was a (c)RPG forum after all.

 

[Volourn]

Solid story, great characters, great atmosphere, abvoe average writing, good graphics, great character system, horrible fuckin' combat.

All in all an above average game whsoe gameplay actually hurts it.

P.S. there is NOTHING 'original' about any Troika game. Nothing.

 

[Glyphwright]

To think that Black Cat actually tried to tell me that a boring adaptation is at the same time is "not a bad and a pretty playable" game. She actually tried to tell me that.

 

[Black Cat]

that the game is set right before Gehenna and the end of the world - outstanding events are allowed to happen under such conditions.

Gehenna had not begun and many Camarilla vampires did believe all that to be just mythical crap anyway. So why they were running the risk of violating the Masquerade by openly fighting in the middle of the street and in front of a hospital? A hospital, remember, that is not under LaCroix power since he needs you to infiltrate in and steal the Werewolf blood instead of just pulling some strings.

Only in the colourful mind of a teenage girly girl can a game set in a screwed up setting be "pretty playable".

Only a larping storyfag can actually believe gameplay and setting have anything to do with each other.

Again, if the setting does not work - the plot does work - the characters do not work - nothing works. The game falls apart and turns into a dynamic panorama of pixels.

The game still offers several different ways to solve quests for a good stretch of it's lenght, well written dialogue, good voice acting, pretty and moody art design, and interesting situations every now and then. It just doesn't do WoD well at all.

What you're really trying to say is "upon reading White Wolf paperback material I noticed some moments in VTMB were not entirely faithful to hem" to which I have already told you - nobody cares.

I, myself, said I don't care, otherwise I wouldn't have said it was pretty playable. I said, however, it wasn't a good adaptation of the source material, and whether that's a good or bad thing for you is left completely to yourself to make up your mind about it. I was just stating the fact: It doesn't hold a lot in common with WoD in general and VtM in particular.

Nobody cares about any of that. The game establishes that Zygaena was a shapeshifter and that Yukio was trained as a demon huntress by her master. It added an interesting sidequest and a pretty stylish bossfight to the game.

Did I say anything about the bossfight or the quest? No, i did say it wasn't in any way related to the story or themes of the game, therefore, again, being just thrown in for the lulz, and not coherent with the rest. The qualities of the game, again, i described as pretty playable if you don't care about the setting or it making much sense at all.

OMG, who cares. You have a bunch of books about supernaturals living among normal people, you take some of those to make a videogame, and leave the rest alone so as not to overload your game with freakish monsters. Again, you have no point aside from "Umm, I like nephandi more than shapeshifters, VTMB bad bad game for having the latter instead of the former". Grow up.

Again, you are making assumptions. My only point is it is a bad adaptation of the setting. I'm not saying they should have done that. I'm saying they had many options about how to make crossovers in a way that made sense inside the setting, first, and their own plot, second, but they instead went with the ones that do not make sense, were just thrown in for the lulz, or require several jumps in logic that are never explored instead of none at all as the examples provided do. If you don't mind, good for you. Did I say you should mind? No, I just said it was a contrived and bad adaptation. You decided to argue that it was, indeed, good. And then you decided it didn't matter anyway. Cool, so why did you argue it was a good adaptation on the first place?

Did you get the part where Nines was HIDING in Griffith Park?

Do you think a vampire hide himself from Werewolves just because he say he's hiding? Oh, hey there, i'm hiding so act like you don't bloody see me stalking your territory.

The videogame has its own way of representing Vampire, and in case of Bloodlines, it's a good one. Easier now?

So you are saying Vampire is about Vampires running around in the sewers while killing stuff, then running about in office buildings while killing stuff, then running about in chinese temples while killing stuff? That's what you spend most of the time doing, and killing other vampires. And killing werewolves. And killing hunters. And openly battling each other on the streets.

The things, you know, that in the setting usually don't happen, at all. I believe that, yes, Troika screwed up because they got rushed at the end instead of making the game they wanted to and giving the options they wanted to. That doesn't change anything. I play the game as they made it, I see it doesn't correspond to the setting in any way other than the most superficial ones, I say it's a bad adaptation.

As for the rest: nerdage?You do understand an adaptation can be good without being 100% accurate?

I don't much like Vampire, so i doubt it's nerdrage. And I actively dislike Werewolf, yet even I know the only reason why you run around five minutes is because the werewolf isn't acting like a werewolf from WoD to begin with. He isn't even trying, at all. Let's not even go about how Nines managed to survive wrestling an angry werewolf that got him by surprise.

That quote i believe came after another mention of the werewolf thing. Again, it doesn't represents the source material in any way other than werewolves being hairy and big in their whatever-it's-called form. That's not a good and faithful adaptation of the source material, regardless of the source material's own quality or lack of.

To think that Black Cat actually tried to tell me that a boring adaptation is at the same time is "not a bad and a pretty playable" game. She actually tried to tell me that.

Why shouldn't I? It's good for what it is, it's boring compared to what it could have been if it actually translated the setting and themes into a videogame in any way. An adaptation doesn't need to be fun, and adaptation is a good adaptation if it translates the themes and setting of the work in a faithful way to a new medium. Therefore, to be a good adaptation the themes, concepts, ideas, and elements must be the same ones, what changes is the medium used to express and transmit them.

Now, you seem to dislike WoD and to consider the setting, the themes, and the like to be stupid but you like Bloodlines. Is Bloodlines a good adaptation when someone who dislikes the original material actually likes the adaptation? Isn't something pretty central actually lost in such a translation between mediums? You are suposed to be interacting with the same concepts, ideas, and themes you already dislike, just in a diferent way.

Adaptation of the WoD's VtM, and for a pc/console game. That's what I asked. I think it's fair enough of me to have asked you to back up your claim, don't you agree?

Why should I give you a better adaptation of VtM to a videogame when my point never was that it was a bad adaptation to Videogame form but a Bad Adaptation in and out of itself? You are saying it's the best one in videogame form. I said you probably are right in my previous post, but I also said that doesn't make it a good adaptation of WoD in itself. Just good for what it is that, again, is what I said from the begining: As a game could be better but it's playable, as WoD it sucks.

Again, I never said there were better VtM games. I said it's still an awful adaptation of VtM. I'm assuming you don't think so because you keep going on and on about it when I am saying the same bloody thing since the begining, so either you believe I'm wrong and it's a good adaptation or you are not reading what I write at all. I asumed it was the former, I'm sorry.

 

[silver crowaxe]

Yes.

 

[mondblut]

Black Cat and that other faggot don't deserve to breath.

"Black Cat and that other faggot" are the only ones in this thread capable of something beyond salivating blowjobs.

You all sound like a bunch of TESF faggots jerking off at FO3. Disgusting.

 

[Cenobyte]

Yeah, I had fun with it. Originally, it had completely slipped from my RPG radar and thus I haven't played it at all until very very recently.
But after I'd finished Mass Effect 2 (and Dragon Age), I had somewhat of a lack of interesting games. Then I stumbled across Bloodlines and decided to give it a try... at first I wasn't very impressed by the description and the setting (ah yeah, another vampire mumbo jumbo... as if we don't have enough Twilight shit already), but after I started playing the game all those feelings quickly disappeared. And all in all it was a great, fun game, especially after I'd previously played the two aforementioned Bioware games.

 

[roll-a-die]

For reference all of those are stated to have some form of magic, or come from some society of mages. Or have a conflict with a society of mages.

What I said was "Vampire does not include elements from Mage. None of the creatures you mentioned are part of the Mage gameline. They are part of the Vampire gameline. Oh, sure, some of them may have CONNECTIONS to Mage (Tremere descent from former mages etc.). But that's different.

Actually yes, vampires do get mention in the mage books. As do most of the other settings.

In terms of the PnP universe, the scourge is considered a vital part of the domain

VTMB does not have a scourge, period. The people who took you in the beginning were random leftover models from character generation.

Um, yeah, a domain generally has a fucking scourge. LaCroix would be an idiot if he didn't have one. Gameplay-wise, yes, those people were random clutter. Lore-wise they were either deputies and/or the scrouge

Same thing, it's just a the eastern/beast courts version of the rokea. The creature itself was a Same-Bito. They still don't leave the water

Not all Rokea, however, remain in the water. Although it is considered an abomination and a blasphemy to do so by most Dimwaters, many Rokea, especially Brightwaters and Darkwaters, often come unto Unsea and are so fascinated with it that they decide to stay. Some Betweeners have other reasons - maybe they are being hunted by other weresharks, for instance - but most come out of curiosity and stay out of satisfaction. Betweeners earn their name because they cannot truly stay on land nor do they desire to live in the water. A wereshark who does not return to Sea regularily will lose his shapeshifting ability forever. To avoid such a fate, Betweeners travel along shorelines, spending some times as humans but always returning to the ocean for sustenance from Sea.

Yeah, you'd be hunted by your kind the moment you stepped out of water. You'd die within 5 months. Not to mention you'd have very little knowledge of the outside world, so you'd make it incredibly obvious what you are. If you went into the water's again you'd be killed on sight, by your kind. If you stay above land you wouldn't be able shift, you'd also lose track of your tribal spirits. In short, no matter which way you fucking cut it, white wolf screwed up on that plot point.

Then why the fuck didn't both of them attack you at once, unless your talking about 2 in the sense of both the Rokea and the generico war form werewolf

You don't really remember the game you're arguing about, do you? In Griffith Park two werewolves came out. One went for Nines and one went for the protagonist.

Then that would be the alpha and beta, or some gamma's where's the rest of the pack. If they control the park, and the spirit's within the park, the pack should be allot bigger. The park's are generally a nexus for forest and shade spirits.

you argue they stay true to the universe

You're deluding yourself.

You seem to hint at it.