The Codex's official opinion on VtM Bloodlines

[Malakal]

Please stop making these fucking threads.

 

[Glyphwright]

Because you think Troika games are inherently good? That's a good argument.

Lolwut? What's "inherently good"? No, it's retarted because there are only two Troika games released before VtM, and both were drastically different from VtM and from each other. So no, it's not JUST ANOTHER Troika game, it's a Troika game, period.

That it is a bad adaptation of world of darkness, as anyone with any knowledge of the setting, beyond basic, can attest? Naturally, you are just defending it because it's made by Troika, not because you have any knowledge of it.

I don't need you to tell me why am I "defending" anything, little girl. Just because you think it's a bad adaptation doesn't make it a bad adaptation. I think it's a good adaptation. It had realistic characters driven by goals appropriate to their personalities (LaCroix = get powerful fast and easy, Ming Xiao = methodically set Kindred at each other and destroy them one by one to gain a permanent Chinese foothold in LA, etc.), factions which neatly corresponded to their paperback versions, the character skill system was cool, and it definitely felt like being inside a World of Darkness.

The setting itself changes from edition to edition, and features plenty of ridiculous elements in some of them. Throwing thirty thousand-year-old Methuselahs mind-controlling everybody at all times would have been closer to the original.

Were did i said that? I never said it was bad because of that, and i never said it was bad at all. It was more along the lines of good for what it is.

Finally, they give some obscure shark shapeshifter no one gives a damn about a cameo instead of a cool one? Screw you, Troika. You suck so bad at world of darkness it's not even funny.

Memory loss? Meow.

I criticize, regardless, both an obscure and retarded crossover and a contrived and cliched one when given some events on the plot some other forces on the World of Darkness would have been much more in-theme and have actual reasons to become involved.

What's so obscure and contrived about having a Chinatown populated by a few Asian supernaturals? You suck at logic so bad, it's not even funny. Actually, there were exactly three kinds of Asian supernaturals in the whole game - Cathayan, Hengeyokai, and Mr. Ox. Plus Yukio the Demon Huntress. All were handled with taste, style, and (not counting the endgame portion of the game) - with uniqueness.

One random example: There's a film going around with pretty realistic fleshcrafted monsters torturing and eating people in a pretty gross setting and no one got a copy, said smells Nephandus, and came to investigate? Heh. Instead you'll have a bunch of MiBs and Euthanatoi, at the very least, possibly working together and fine combing hollywood (while probably running simulations back in their bases about the possible outcome of just laser cannon'ing the general area from orbit and report an asteroid did it, which is always plan B when it comes to possible Nephandus activity). And that's actually a pretty normal and in-character cameo to have on any plot regarding the Tzimisce somehow ignoring the masquerade, since the Tzimisce and the Nephandi have somehow matching, say, artistical tastes, similar minions, and in some cases similar modus operandi, and it follows the setting and the lore instead of just being some retarded anime joke/reference thrown in for the lulz.

lolwut. Vampire doesn't feature elements from Mage, and thank goodness.

Let's not talk about how contrived and uncomfortable the entire let's pull a werewolf out of our butts part actually is.

Indeed let's not, as it was neither contrived nor uncomfortable. The guys went to a forest area. Forest areas have werewolves. One of them came out to say hi.

Not to mention vampires openly using their disciplines to hunt you in a fucking city, just in front a bloody hospital and a bloody night club? Camarilla Vampires? Good one.

Nigga please.

Also, by cameo i meant things alien to the basic setting of Vampire, to which the Nagloper belongs no less than the eastern kindred, as using them counts as crossover by World of Darkness standards

Your point?

They are a dime a dozen, man, being one of the basic sabbat clans. The hengeyokai and the werewolf both do count as a crossoversih cameo and are both kind of stupid in the general plot, the others don't count as one to begin with since they belong to the particular sub-setting.

You have no point.

 

[roll-a-die]

That it is a bad adaptation of world of darkness, as anyone with any knowledge of the setting, beyond basic, can attest? Naturally, you are just defending it because it's made by Troika, not because you have any knowledge of it.

I don't need you to tell me why am I "defending" anything, little girl. Just because you think it's a bad adaptation doesn't make it a bad adaptation. I think it's a good adaptation. It had realistic characters driven by goals appropriate to their personalities (LaCroix = get powerful fast and easy, Ming Xiao = methodically set Kindred at each other and destroy them one by one to gain a permanent Chinese foothold in LA, etc.), factions which neatly corresponded to their paperback versions, the character skill system was cool, and it definitely felt like being inside a World of Darkness.

Not really, in terms of a cam game, if you displayed any sort of obvious power outside of, A ellysium, if you had the status, or B no man's land. You've got the scourge on your ass, in which case you're usually dead. Or at least the next contest on the sun is up.

SNURHUP

I criticize, regardless, both an obscure and retarded crossover and a contrived and cliched one when given some events on the plot some other forces on the World of Darkness would have been much more in-theme and have actual reasons to become involved.

What's so obscure and contrived about having a Chinatown populated by a few Asian supernaturals? You suck at logic so bad, it's not even funny. Actually, there were exactly three kinds of Asian supernaturals in the whole game - Cathayan, Hengeyokai, and Mr. Ox. Plus Yukio the Demon Huntress. All were handled with taste, style, and (not counting the endgame portion of the game) - with uniqueness.

The problem is that Rokea are absolutely stupid. And that particular Rokea should have been dead. They tend to murder those who go to the surface.

One random example: There's a film going around with pretty realistic fleshcrafted monsters torturing and eating people in a pretty gross setting and no one got a copy, said smells Nephandus, and came to investigate? Heh. Instead you'll have a bunch of MiBs and Euthanatoi, at the very least, possibly working together and fine combing hollywood (while probably running simulations back in their bases about the possible outcome of just laser cannon'ing the general area from orbit and report an asteroid did it, which is always plan B when it comes to possible Nephandus activity). And that's actually a pretty normal and in-character cameo to have on any plot regarding the Tzimisce somehow ignoring the masquerade, since the Tzimisce and the Nephandi have somehow matching, say, artistical tastes, similar minions, and in some cases similar modus operandi, and it follows the setting and the lore instead of just being some retarded anime joke/reference thrown in for the lulz.

lolwut. Vampire doesn't feature elements from Mage, and thank goodness.

Settite Responce, HRM HEM. Tremere responce, Hnn, Tzimicse response, hram, Giovanni Response, che, Harbinger's of Skulls Response, gyahahaha, Pisha's response, come now, neonate, are you really that much of an idiot.

Let's not talk about how contrived and uncomfortable the entire let's pull a werewolf out of our butts part actually is.

Indeed let's not, as it was neither contrived nor uncomfortable. The guys went to a forest area. Forest areas have werewolves. One of them came out to say hi.

Errr, wha! Have you even read Werewolf the Apocalypse, Wolves tend to run in packs, wolves also tend to stay in human form unless in combat, wolves are also quite capable of staying within cities. Wolves also tend to cause vamps to Rotshreck upon seeing them.

Not to mention vampires openly using their disciplines to hunt you in a fucking city, just in front a bloody hospital and a bloody night club? Camarilla Vampires? Good one.

Nigga please.

In a cam domain, you violate the masquerade, you make yourself the next member of the dust patrol.

Also, by cameo i meant things alien to the basic setting of Vampire, to which the Nagloper belongs no less than the eastern kindred, as using them counts as crossover by World of Darkness standards

Your point?

Eh, this one is a minor grievance.

They are a dime a dozen, man, being one of the basic sabbat clans. The hengeyokai and the werewolf both do count as a crossoversih cameo and are both kind of stupid in the general plot, the others don't count as one to begin with since they belong to the particular sub-setting.

You have no point.

Actually she does.

 

[1eyedking]

The spirit of VD carries on.

 

[made]

Whose alt is Black Cat btw? I'm not really uptodate.

 

[Murk]

That's no alt, that's my future wife bro.

I seriously don't care how bad of a rape of the setting the game was, it was fun and had good characters, good writing, great voice acting, shit-tons of ways to get quests done and managed to tie said quests together wonderfully, and the combat wasn't bad enough that I couldn't enjoy it.

Sounds like a winner to me.

 

[Glyphwright]

Not really, in terms of a cam game, if you displayed any sort of obvious power outside of, A ellysium, if you had the status, or B no man's land. You've got the scourge on your ass, in which case you're usually dead. Or at least the next contest on the sun is up.

Not sure what you're trying to say. The scourge is never mentioned in VTMB, only the sheriff is.

The problem is that Rokea are absolutely stupid. And that particular Rokea should have been dead. They tend to murder those who go to the surface.

HENGEYOKAI. Actually, an article about them on White Wolf Wiki suggests Troika did their homework well, as Eastern shapeshifters have a shark breed corresponding to the Rokea bullshit you just mentioned, but "considering themselves much more refined".

Settite Responce, HRM HEM. Tremere responce, Hnn, Tzimicse response, hram, Giovanni Response, che, Harbinger's of Skulls Response, gyahahaha, Pisha's response, come now, neonate, are you really that much of an idiot.

k.

Wolves tend to run in packs, wolves also tend to stay in human form unless in combat, wolves are also quite capable of staying within cities. Wolves also tend to cause vamps to Rotshreck upon seeing them

Things also tend to happen differently from what is prescribed in advance. And that particular werewolf was in combat. And there were two of them.

P.S. I guess I should have mentioned I don't give a rat's ass as to how many times VTMB violates the sacrosanct writings of White Wolf. Grow up.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

ITT :

Liberal is fighting the good fight with his words?

 

[Deleted member 7219]

An excellent game, but not without its frustrating sections.

 

[Black Cat]

So no, it's not JUST ANOTHER Troika game, it's a Troika game, period.

You fail at reading comprehension. I did not compare mechanics nor gameplay. I did say it was just another Troika game because it follows the same pattern of having some stellar elements coupled with some truly catastrophic ones.

Just because you think it's a bad adaptation doesn't make it a bad adaptation. I think it's a good adaptation.

Why were two dozens of Camarilla vampires blatantly violating the Masquerade during the bloodhunt other than to give you a vampire rush before reaching the cab? Was there any point in hiding Nines Rodrigez in werewolf territory other than just making you fight some werewolves?

inside a World of Darkness.

The problem is we are talking about the World of Darkness, where things work in one particular way, and not a world of darkness.

Memory loss? Meow.

You can't read, right? In the line you quoted i said Troika sucked at World of Darkness, not that the game sucked but that they fail at the setting, which they do. In the first paragraph i wrote, about the game, could have been better but it's pretty playable. So, where did i said Bloodlines was a bad game, again? Retard.

What's so obscure and contrived about having a Chinatown populated by a few Asian supernaturals? You suck at logic so bad, it's not even funny.

I did not say anything against having a Chinatown populated by Asian supernaturals. I said, first, the Hengeyokai being here was, to begin with, an stretch in the setting. Second, it was a stretch while adding nothing to the game, being just thrown in for the lulz and the pop references. And given what we see on the game that girl wasn't a demon huntress, as she doesn't show any of the peculiarities hunters do in the setting, but a girl with a sword who tried to melee a shapeshifter along some random girl who was turned into a vampire three nights before. That's not a recipe to get XP at the end of the session, really.

lolwut. Vampire doesn't feature elements from Mage, and thank goodness.

Again, you can't read, nor think. Do you notice I said one random example? You have, on one hand, a setting full of supernatural entities which overlaping claims on land, mortals, and power bases. Then, you have that at least half those supernatural groups have their own version of the Masquerade, and an implied point on them all is that they must hide the supernatural as a whole and not just their own presence. Then, several factions of those supernatural groups have ideals and beliefs that pushes them to actively protect humanity or hunt those they perceive as evil. Any of those situations would have been closer to the setting that fighting sharkboy along an asian schoolgirl that was a hunter only in name.

And let's not mention the other things that don't really make a lot of sense in the setting like the graveyard joke quest, the already mentioned bloodhunt, etc.

Indeed let's not, as it was neither contrived nor uncomfortable. The guys went to a forest area. Forest areas have werewolves. One of them came out to say hi.

What's contrived is that he went to werewolf territory and had not yet turned into toothpaste when you got there, and that the werewolves actually did not attack the bloody vampire in their territory until someone burned down the trees because all of a sudden werewolves are greenpace instead of territorial, pack-minded, furry war machines that don't really get along with vampires and against a pack of whom a vampire Sired during the great depression had even less chances than against dawn.

It all reeked of hey, let's throw a werewolf fight in here! Cool!

Your point?

My point is that you mentioned things I never said I had a gripe with and whose mention shows you don't really understand my gripe with those I had one. Having a Nagloper, eastern Kindred, or even a Nagaraja in your Vampire game doesn't need justification since they are part of the Vampire setting. Once you go into crossover territory you actually need to have a good reason, other than it's cool!, to have them here but not bring with them their motivations, limitations, attitudes, etc.

If you throw in shapeshifters who do not act like they should and who really don't add anything to the story just for the lulz while ignoring groups of both vampires and supernaturals that actually would have reasons to get involved you can't hope to be seen as a good adaptation, which takes us back to my point about it being a bearable game but an awful adaptation and you saying it isn't. And, at the same time, you say...

The scourge is never mentioned in VTMB, only the sheriff is.

P.S. I guess I should have mentioned I don't give a rat's ass as to how many times VTMB violates the sacrosanct writings of White Wolf. Grow up.

Sorry? Either the setting is well adapted or it is not, regardless of your particular opinion on the setting. I said it was a bad adaptation, you said I was wrong. We have shown you many aspects on which it is a bad adaptation and by which it contradicts what is established by the setting, again regardless of how you or I feel about those elements of the setting. The clans are badly represented, the camarilla is badly represented, the politics are badly represented, the way vampires do their things is badly represented, the way werewolves operate is badly represented, and the global setting itself is badly represented. So, regardless of how good or bad the game is it happens to be an awful adaptation.

Good Adaptation =/= Good Game.
Bad Adaptation =/= Bad Game.

Easier now?

And that particular werewolf was in combat. And there were two of them.

Which means the true ending is both you and Nines being slaughtered by the wolves. You should consider parties of werewolves slaughter through elite troops, hellish mutants with sci fi weapons, corrupted werewolves armed with magical swords and gatling guns they hold in one single hand, and the armies of cosmic horrors. They have their own disciplines and magic powers, unique skills, etc. Two vampires, not even ancient vampires, against two werewolves who surprise them, are dead. Every single time. There's no way you can make the rolls go your way in that situation.

The only way you can make it work like it happened is because you ignore everything in the setting about Werewolves, thus making the game, again, a bad adaptation. Which was, again, my point from the begining.

 

[acolyte]

Some preconditions should be set for the discussion to have any meaning.
So:
1) I'm talking about playing the game on your own, for the 1st time. Not playing out of boredom for the n-th time, after reading a few walkthroughs on-line, searching the net for game-breaking exploits, and generally trying hard _not_ to have a good time with games.
2) Also, I'm talking strictly about cRPG players here; PnP fans of WoD can have any opinion they want, but it's largely irrelevant, the same way it would be irrelevant for me to criticize a PnP game based on what I expect from a computer game.
3) Cut content and community restoration (or worse, alteration) efforts I don't care about. I'll play the game as intended by the developers, and move on.
4) Finally, it must be noted that I'm generally not put off from bugs in games I otherwise like, and consciously ignore them in my judgement of said games. E.g. I played each of the 3 Troika games upon release, only with official patches, and no guides whatsoever.

Original Setting? What?

Definitely original setting... for a cRPG and a pc game in general. How many pc games, much less cRPGs you know set in VtM?

Also, it must have been one of the most pedestrian and boring adaptations of the world of darkness ever made

I rather think it's the single best adaptation of WoD's Vampire: The Masquarade setting for the PC. Again, what better adaptation you know (count consoles in as well if you must)?

Finally, they give some obscure shark shapeshifter no one gives a damn about a cameo instead of a cool one?

I don't give a damn about _any_ 'cool' cameo. I didn't know the shark was one, and now that I know I couldn' t care less, I'm not even going to search what it refers to. An in-game character is only as good as it is inside the game itself, what it may refer to outside the game world is irrelevant.

Let's not talk about how contrived and uncomfortable the entire let's pull a werewolf out of our butts part actually is

I don't think it was either contrived or uncomfortable. I think it's one of the best situations in the game. The PC is being set up: sent to a remote location, with no easy way out, and a fire is started on the nearby woods to lure a resident werewolf out. At this point, PC thinks he's strong enough to take on anything... but the devs are about to crush that ego. One "What was the name of the train that hit me?" and a reload later, the PC runs like hell. It's not even like the devs break the game giving an artificially invulnerable enemy, but it's highly unlikely to discover the way to kill him on your own, much less on the 1st playthrough.

Instead you'll have a bunch of MiBs and Euthanatoi, at the very least, possibly working together and fine combing hollywood (while probably running simulations back in their bases about the possible outcome of just laser cannon'ing the general area from orbit and report an asteroid did it, which is always plan B when it comes to possible Nephandus activity).

You consider the werewolf incident "contrived and uncomfortable", "let's pull a werewolf out of our butts", but go on to propose the above as a better substitute for the Hollywood plot? Where exactly did you pull that from, especially the "laser cannon'ing the general area from orbit and report an asteroid did it" part? You think that would fit better, instead of completely breaking the setting? I know it's easy to say what 'should' and what 'shouldn't' be done, when you actually don't have to do it, but try doing it and I think you'll be less than pleased with the result. It should also put some perspective into why things are done as they are, and not "like that thing I dreamt last night".

Like others, VtM:Bloodlines is definitely on my top 3 pc games. The only non-hack&slash cRPG I ever replayed from start to finish, and more than twice.
Why? For starters:
-diversity in available characters and play styles
-not too long but packed with things to do & little filler
-great characters, art, setup
-dense atmosphere but also with a sense of humor I can definitely relate to

I want to emphasize my point about "little filler". I see some people complaining about the sewers or the endgame, and I really don't get it; I myself certainly can't think of a game with less filler than Bloodlines. And in this particular game, 'filler' is a very relative term since you generally don't have to kill monsters other than 'bosses', and even if you do you don't get XP for it. In principle you only kill monsters when your character build is combat oriented. So, if you consider combat filler, focus on different builds (yes, they're viable). How exactly could this be better? How many games did this better (if any - I don't say they don't exist, I just don't know them)?

The only serious criticism I know of is the depth of combat options; fans of tactical combat and generally people who play mainly for the combat won't be thrilled, that's for sure. It's just not that kind of game.

 

[roll-a-die]

Not really, in terms of a cam game, if you displayed any sort of obvious power outside of, A ellysium, if you had the status, or B no man's land. You've got the scourge on your ass, in which case you're usually dead. Or at least the next contest on the sun is up.

Not sure what you're trying to say. The scourge is never mentioned in VTMB, only the sheriff is.

In terms of the PnP universe, the scourge is considered a vital part of the domain. The scourge is the one who kills whose who violates the masquerade and those who violate the rite of progeny. They are the only Vampire bar the prince who has the rights to kill other vampires straight out. I imagine one of the people who came and got you in the beginning was the scourge.

The problem is that Rokea are absolutely stupid. And that particular Rokea should have been dead. They tend to murder those who go to the surface.

HENGEYOKAI. Actually, an article about them on White Wolf Wiki suggests Troika did their homework well, as Eastern shapeshifters have a shark breed corresponding to the Rokea bullshit you just mentioned, but "considering themselves much more refined".

Same thing, it's just a the eastern/beast courts version of the rokea. The creature itself was a Same-Bito. They still don't leave the water. Henge-Youkai is the term for beast courts, it's a sect or alliance not unlike the cam, ROKEA, however is like a clan.

Next time trust the motherfucker who has this folder,

Settite Responce, HRM HEM. Tremere responce, Hnn, Tzimicse response, hram, Giovanni Response, che, Harbinger's of Skulls Response, gyahahaha, Pisha's response, come now, neonate, are you really that much of an idiot.

k.

For reference all of those are stated to have some form of magic, or come from some society of mages. Or have a conflict with a society of mages.

In the case of settites, they also have a conflict with werewolves, mummies, demons, fae, wraith, and most other vampires.

Wolves tend to run in packs, wolves also tend to stay in human form unless in combat, wolves are also quite capable of staying within cities. Wolves also tend to cause vamps to Rotshreck upon seeing them

Things also tend to happen differently from what is prescribed in advance. And that particular werewolf was in combat. And there were two of them.

Then why the fuck didn't both of them attack you at once, unless your talking about 2 in the sense of both the Rokea and the generico war form werewolf. In which case, HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHBWBAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAGWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. OK done. Yeah, eastern werewolves, including rokea, tend to not like western ones.

P.S. I guess I should have mentioned I don't give a rat's ass as to how many times VTMB violates the sacrosanct writings of White Wolf. Grow up.

Eh, you argue they stay true to the universe, we're showing you how wrong you are.

 

[dr. one]

I seriously don't care how bad of a rape of the setting the game was, it was fun and had good characters, good writing, great voice acting, shit-tons of ways to get quests done and managed to tie said quests together wonderfully, and the combat wasn't bad enough that I couldn't enjoy it.

yeah. also, very distinct atmosphere thanks to audiovisuals.

despite its rushed last 1/3, best Troika game by a long shot.

 

[SCO]

I still hope that the quest mod does something about the endgame grind (alternatives), possibly joining the sabbath. But without ways to add new maps, it's doubtful.

 

[roll-a-die]

SNURIP

Original Setting? What?

Definitely original setting... for a cRPG and a pc game in general. How many pc games, much less cRPGs you know set in VtM?

In WoD, around 5, Hunter's 1-3, VtR and VtM. Gonna be 6 come 2012-2014, including the VtM MMO. In terms of MUDs as well, around 14.

Also, it must have been one of the most pedestrian and boring adaptations of the world of darkness ever made

I rather think it's the single best adaptation of WoD's Vampire: The Masquarade setting for the PC. Again, what better adaptation you know (count consoles in as well if you must)?

The fact that it is the best out there, does not invalidate it from criticism when you state it stays true to the universe.

Finally, they give some obscure shark shapeshifter no one gives a damn about a cameo instead of a cool one?

I don't give a damn about _any_ 'cool' cameo. I didn't know the shark was one, and now that I know I couldn' t care less, I'm not even going to search what it refers to. An in-game character is only as good as it is inside the game itself, what it may refer to outside the game world is irrelevant.

Eh, not sure I get this. So you wouldn't have freaked had fallout 3 been good but Harold still been there? You don't complain that Oblivion butched the complex lore that Daggerfall and Morrowind built up?

Let's not talk about how contrived and uncomfortable the entire let's pull a werewolf out of our butts part actually is

I don't think it was either contrived or uncomfortable. I think it's one of the best situations in the game. The PC is being set up: sent to a remote location, with no easy way out, and a fire is started on the nearby woods to lure a resident werewolf out. At this point, PC thinks he's strong enough to take on anything... but the devs are about to crush that ego. One "What was the name of the train that hit me?" and a reload later, the PC runs like hell. It's not even like the devs break the game giving an artificially invulnerable enemy, but it's highly unlikely to discover the way to kill him on your own, much less on the 1st playthrough.

It was a good section, but in terms of lore sense, it made little sense, you should have gotten about 5 other Werewolves along with that one.

Instead you'll have a bunch of MiBs and Euthanatoi, at the very least, possibly working together and fine combing hollywood (while probably running simulations back in their bases about the possible outcome of just laser cannon'ing the general area from orbit and report an asteroid did it, which is always plan B when it comes to possible Nephandus activity).

You consider the werewolf incident "contrived and uncomfortable", "let's pull a werewolf out of our butts", but go on to propose the above as a better substitute for the Hollywood plot? Where exactly did you pull that from, especially the "laser cannon'ing the general area from orbit and report an asteroid did it" part? You think that would fit better, instead of completely breaking the setting? I know it's easy to say what 'should' and what 'shouldn't' be done, when you actually don't have to do it, but try doing it and I think you'll be less than pleased with the result. It should also put some perspective into why things are done as they are, and not "like that thing I dreamt last night".

Considering the MiB nuked a major urban area in an attempt to stop a rampaging antedeluvian. Yeah I rather much think it would make a hell of allot more sense.

Like others, VtM:Bloodlines is definitely on my top 3 pc games. The only non-hack&slash cRPG I ever replayed from start to finish, and more than twice.
Why? For starters:
-diversity in available characters and play styles
-not too long but packed with things to do & little filler
-great characters, art, setup
-dense atmosphere but also with a sense of humor I can definitely relate to

I want to emphasize my point about "little filler". I see some people complaining about the sewers or the endgame, and I really don't get it; I myself certainly can't think of a game with less filler than Bloodlines.

Hmm, PsT?

And in this particular game, 'filler' is a very relative term since you generally don't have to kill monsters other than 'bosses', and even if you do you don't get XP for it. In principle you only kill monsters when your character build is combat oriented. So, if you consider combat filler, focus on different builds (yes, they're viable). How exactly could this be better? How many games did this better (if any - I don't say they don't exist, I just don't know them)?

The only serious criticism I know of is the depth of combat options; fans of tactical combat and generally people who play mainly for the combat won't be thrilled, that's for sure. It's just not that kind of game.

It's a good game, a VERY good game, but claiming it lives up to the VtM/oWoD universe is stretching a little too far.

 

[made]

SNURIP

Original Setting? What?

Definitely original setting... for a cRPG and a pc game in general. How many pc games, much less cRPGs you know set in VtM?

In WoD, around 5, Hunter's 1-3, VtR and VtM. Gonna be 6 come 2012-2014, including the VtM MMO. In terms of MUDs as well, around 14.

Besides Bloodlines and Requiem, what else is there?

 

[roll-a-die]

SNURIP

Original Setting? What?

Definitely original setting... for a cRPG and a pc game in general. How many pc games, much less cRPGs you know set in VtM?

In WoD, around 5, Hunter's 1-3, VtR and VtM. Gonna be 6 come 2012-2014, including the VtM MMO. In terms of MUDs as well, around 14.

Besides Bloodlines and Requiem, what else is there?

In terms of MUDs, there is/was around 12 of them in various incarnations. I can't remember most of them, the 90's and early 2000s are an E and techno filled haze to me in my morning daze.

WW had one, there were a bunch of fan MUDs, erm lemme think as I drink some tea. Cajun Night's MUSH, LA A House Divided, Lovecraft County, Arkham By Night, Twilight's Failings, Morganstown by Gaslight, Columbus at Twilight, Haunted Memories Vienna by Night, The Reach, Darkwater, Darkmetal MUSH, Metro Toronto By Night and that's about all I can remember.

 

[Black Cat]

2) Also, I'm talking strictly about cRPG players here; PnP fans of WoD can have any opinion they want, but it's largely irrelevant, the same way it would be irrelevant for me to criticize a PnP game based on what I expect from a computer game.

Which is amusing since i'm not discussing how good or bad the game is but how much of a good or bad adaptation the game is. I said it was a playable game, i also said it was an awful adaptation. Learn to read, then try again to answer me.

Again, what better adaptation you know (count consoles in as well if you must)?

So? That doesn't make it a good adaptation but, at most, a good for what it is adaptation. This is already on my original post, since I already said most adaptations are awful. So?

An in-game character is only as good as it is inside the game itself, what it may refer to outside the game world is irrelevant.

And? Again, that was outside both me saying it was a playable games and it saying it was an awful adaptation. So? Again, learn to read. Then answer me, not before.

I don't think it was either contrived or uncomfortable.

It's contrived and uncomfortable from the point of being an adaptation. I did not say anything about the gameplay of that particular scene. Again, the discussion is whether it is a good or bad adaptation, since all the things people has quoted were about it's quality as an adaptation and not as a game.

Where exactly did you pull that from, especially the "laser cannon'ing the general area from orbit and report an asteroid did it" part? You think that would fit better, instead of completely breaking the setting?

That's actually a part of the setting, known as The Technocracy. The same Technocracy that turned half of India into a wasteland to kill Ravnos. The same technocracy that believes any evidence of supernatural activity, even circunstantial, is a subersive breach on the structure of reality and must be eliminated before it can extend, no matter what needs to be done as they can always say a meteority did it. The same technocracy that controls most media, that has standard agents who leave J.C.Denton as a homebrew piece of antique tech, have a self suficient space station, a bunch of interestellar starships with orbital bombardment capabilities, extraterrestrial colonies, extradimensional colonies, self suficient war machines, an army of faceless elite military forces, and not a small amount of technomancers.

That's the setting's canon. So I believe that a bunch of MiBs trying to control a subversive breach on the paradigm of reality would be a more canonical cameo, and a better one given the situations happening on the game, than the hengeyokai, or the werewolves as shown in the game, that are nothing as werewolves outside furry and angry.

In other words, if the fish guy or the werewolves weren't there you wouldn't wonder where they were. You kind of have to wonder, though, how comes every single night zombies arise on a graveyard in the middle of hollywood and neither the Euthanatos nor the Techies heard about it, how comes no one went hysterical screaming Nephandus when that film was going around, and how come a veritable army of fleschcrafted monstrosities managed to go unoticed by the Black Spiral Dancers, the Shadow Court, the Euthanatoi death cults, the Earthbound cults, the bloody sluaghs, the thalain, and all the other two hundred things that live down there and are more than able to kick a ghoul mutant butt to hell and back, thrice. Or, again, how was it that a bloody army of things that shouldn't be went unoticed by the Technocracy.

Any of those would have been crossoverish cameos that made sense given those events. The werewolves and the hengeyokai were just thrown in for the lulz.

 

[aweigh]

omg shut up shut up shut up shut UP!!!!!

WoD fans are truly the most boring, gay faggots ever encountered. NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WOD.

This game is a classic, R.I.P. Troika.

Anyone who shits on this game for WoD-related reasons is a moron and a stupid retard. From now on ANYONE WHO CONTINUES TALKING ABOUT FAGGY WOD AND NOT THE PC GAME SHOULD BE INSTABANNED.

Truly I haven't nerd-raged this hard in years. Seriously. Black Cat and that other faggot don't deserve to breath.

 

[aweigh]

Not really, in terms of a cam game, if you displayed any sort of obvious power outside of, A ellysium, if you had the status, or B no man's land. You've got the scourge on your ass, in which case you're usually dead. Or at least the next contest on the sun is up.

Not sure what you're trying to say. The scourge is never mentioned in VTMB, only the sheriff is.

In terms of the PnP universe, the scourge is considered a vital part of the domain. The scourge is the one who kills whose who violates the masquerade and those who violate the rite of progeny. They are the only Vampire bar the prince who has the rights to kill other vampires straight out. I imagine one of the people who came and got you in the beginning was the scourge.

The problem is that Rokea are absolutely stupid. And that particular Rokea should have been dead. They tend to murder those who go to the surface.

HENGEYOKAI. Actually, an article about them on White Wolf Wiki suggests Troika did their homework well, as Eastern shapeshifters have a shark breed corresponding to the Rokea bullshit you just mentioned, but "considering themselves much more refined".

Same thing, it's just a the eastern/beast courts version of the rokea. The creature itself was a Same-Bito. They still don't leave the water. Henge-Youkai is the term for beast courts, it's a sect or alliance not unlike the cam, ROKEA, however is like a clan.

Next time trust the motherfucker who has this folder,

Settite Responce, HRM HEM. Tremere responce, Hnn, Tzimicse response, hram, Giovanni Response, che, Harbinger's of Skulls Response, gyahahaha, Pisha's response, come now, neonate, are you really that much of an idiot.

k.

For reference all of those are stated to have some form of magic, or come from some society of mages. Or have a conflict with a society of mages.

In the case of settites, they also have a conflict with werewolves, mummies, demons, fae, wraith, and most other vampires.

Wolves tend to run in packs, wolves also tend to stay in human form unless in combat, wolves are also quite capable of staying within cities. Wolves also tend to cause vamps to Rotshreck upon seeing them

Things also tend to happen differently from what is prescribed in advance. And that particular werewolf was in combat. And there were two of them.

Then why the fuck didn't both of them attack you at once, unless your talking about 2 in the sense of both the Rokea and the generico war form werewolf. In which case, HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHBWBAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAGWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. OK done. Yeah, eastern werewolves, including rokea, tend to not like western ones.

P.S. I guess I should have mentioned I don't give a rat's ass as to how many times VTMB violates the sacrosanct writings of White Wolf. Grow up.

Eh, you argue they stay true to the universe, we're showing you how wrong you are.

Just for having a folder as gay as that, full of White Wolf .pdf's, proves you have no taste. You're not even fit to play this game.

 

[ghostdog]

Who gives a shit about this shit except retarded whitewolf fanboys ?

 

[acolyte]

roll-a-die:

1) So, only 1 mainstream VtM PC game was out then, and still is today. Unless you want to include these MUDs who probably no one knows about(who are they, really?), how was VtM not an original setting for a cRPG, and a PC game in general?

2) I don't exempt it from criticism as far as WoD lore goes. I didn't say it stays true to the universe. I even said:
"Also, I'm talking strictly about cRPG players here; PnP fans of WoD can have any opinion they want, but it's largely irrelevant, the same way it would be irrelevant for me to criticize a PnP game based on what I expect from a computer game."
Finally, you accept "it's the best out there", which is what I pointed out. I respoded to this: "Also, it must have been one of the most pedestrian and boring adaptations of the world of darkness ever made". I say it's one of the best adaptations, the best actually (again, for a cRPG). So, I obviously I don't argue with you.

3) Oblivion, Morrowind, Daggerfall, Fallouts are all pc games to begin with. Their lore and characters _are_ in-game already, in a series of ongoing games, sequels, prequels, etc. VtM:B was the one and only game in its 'franchise'. From the pc gamer's perspective, it has nothing previous to contradict (unless it contradicts itself within the same game, which I don't think it does - from a _pc gamer's_ perspective always).

4) I don't disagree. But I said it explicitly on my 'preconditions' (2) that I consider any complaints about the lore that exists outside the game world largely irrelevant to the game itself.

5) It's a matter of personal taste, of course. But your complaints still come from your personal knowledge of things outside the game itself ("Mage" I gather?). I explicitly stated that I consider PnP fans complaints irrelevant. It's like me criticizing the 'hacking' skill of the game because I'm a programmer and obviously hacking is absurdely implemented and nonsensical. And 'hacking' is something that is actually based on reality, not on another work of fiction.

6) Well, for me PS:T also had no filler (since I enjoyed all of it, but some locations after Sigil can be considered filler. And you can't really avoid combat with the available game mechanincs, only 'exploit' around it. Also, combat is tied to the experience system, again making it mandatory (as in "the game was not designed to let you avoid combat").

7) Far be it from me to claim "it lives up to the VtM/oWoD universe" (which I don't know generally) I stated it before, "I'm talking strictly about cRPG players here".

 

[made]

SNURIP

Original Setting? What?

Definitely original setting... for a cRPG and a pc game in general. How many pc games, much less cRPGs you know set in VtM?

In WoD, around 5, Hunter's 1-3, VtR and VtM. Gonna be 6 come 2012-2014, including the VtM MMO. In terms of MUDs as well, around 14.

Besides Bloodlines and Requiem, what else is there?

In terms of MUDs, there is/was around 12 of them in various incarnations. I can't remember most of them, the 90's and early 2000s are an E and techno filled haze to me in my morning daze.

WW had one, there were a bunch of fan MUDs, erm lemme think as I drink some tea. Cajun Night's MUSH, LA A House Divided, Lovecraft County, Arkham By Night, Twilight's Failings, Morganstown by Gaslight, Columbus at Twilight, Haunted Memories Vienna by Night, The Reach, Darkwater, Darkmetal MUSH, Metro Toronto By Night and that's about all I can remember.

So all of them are MUDs then? I see.

 

[aweigh]

OMG and also, listing MUDs???

MUDS????????????????????

YOU'RE DEFENDING YOUR RETARDED ARGUMENTS WITH FUCKING MUUUUUUUUDSSSSSSS ARGH

my head's gonna explode from sheer nerd-rage. please lose your virginity first before posting.

 

[Black Cat]

omg shut up shut up shut up shut UP!!!!!

WoD fans are truly the most boring, gay faggots ever encountered. NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WOD.

Truly I haven't nerd-raged this hard in years. Seriously. Black Cat and that other faggot don't deserve to breath.

Now, care to explain how come discussing the setting isn't important when the thing they have disputed is whether it is or not a good adaptation? It was only a passing comment, originally.

Also, if they don't care about it then why argument it is a good adaptation when no one said it was a bad game?

It's another mystery about the truly elite minds at the Codex, i guess.



Edit: It is pretty amusing you rage against him for posting a screen about his werewolf collection when it was the other retard who tried to claim he did not know what he was talking about, that being the only reason behind he posting the screenshot. I'm amazed at your comprehension of the context of the discussion you are trying to have an opinion about.