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From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread
- Thread starter felipepepe
- Start date
Hats off to Yahtzee, I was surprised that he liked the game, being a filthy casual and all (yeah I know he keeps telling that he is an oldschool gamer, but it never got through me in his reviews).
DramaticPopcorn
Guest
They all can't handle the truth
That was TotalBiscuit, not Yahtzee.
nope
Been reading the Dark Souls comments on the Escapist site and many how pointed out how lost they felt and how the game didn't give them enough info to get started. The general consensus is that they didn't heed waht the cresfallen knight told them, or figured out on their own where to go from simple trial and error. I wonder if its not the gamers fault; they have been coddled with waypoints, map markers and compass icons for so long that most of the gamers from the last 10 years have been definetly damaged by popamole shit like Call of Duty as much as GTA.
Hell, even Ocarina of Time wasn't very forthcoming with here to go or what to do, although the fairy was pretty good at helping out on that.
I honestly hadn't though of Dark Souls in that way, maybe because I was used to the trail and death system from Demons souls but looking at it that way it is even more remarkable; it actualy challenges the popamole regime set up for the last 10 to 15 years.
While replaying Castelvania on my new phone I found it reall amazing how the old games where relatively starighfoward in their approach (left to right till you kill the baddy) but they didn't hold your hand at all or gave you any handholding; hey you got a clock so try it don't like it then try to keep the weapon you like.
Hell, even Ocarina of Time wasn't very forthcoming with here to go or what to do, although the fairy was pretty good at helping out on that.
I honestly hadn't though of Dark Souls in that way, maybe because I was used to the trail and death system from Demons souls but looking at it that way it is even more remarkable; it actualy challenges the popamole regime set up for the last 10 to 15 years.
While replaying Castelvania on my new phone I found it reall amazing how the old games where relatively starighfoward in their approach (left to right till you kill the baddy) but they didn't hold your hand at all or gave you any handholding; hey you got a clock so try it don't like it then try to keep the weapon you like.
Damned Registrations
Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
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To be fair, the knight's advice is pretty fucking useless. He mentions there being a bell down below, but going down from firelink (whether to new londo or the catacombs) is pretty much a fruitless deathtrap if you haven't played before. And 'above' most immediately leads you to the non functional shortcut behind Petrus. And I'd imagine the vast majority of players missed out on the bulk of his dialogue because why the fuck go back to firelink after beating the taurus demon as opposed to moving forward and killing the gargoyles, and the butterfly, and maybe another boss or two for good measure. I mean, clearly you were meant to go back and make friends with Lautrec after finding him, but I frankly couldn't be assed when the boss is right fucking there.
That said, not getting any useful advice strikes me as totally fine anyways. There's nothing wrong with fumbling around a bit as long as it isn't because of some retarded adventure game logic like tin bucket > plug hole in rock face spewing lava so you can walk past. If you killed every NPC in dark souls on sight it'd still be totally reasonable to find your way through. Well, barring being screwed out of a rather important bonfire in anor londo.
That said, not getting any useful advice strikes me as totally fine anyways. There's nothing wrong with fumbling around a bit as long as it isn't because of some retarded adventure game logic like tin bucket > plug hole in rock face spewing lava so you can walk past. If you killed every NPC in dark souls on sight it'd still be totally reasonable to find your way through. Well, barring being screwed out of a rather important bonfire in anor londo.
A good idea would be to either make an advice a real misdirection and then make NPC laugh at player when he respawns after death to ghosts - that would have worked if Cursed Londo (or whatever was the name, I forgot already) name was dropped; or to actually provide real advice instead of just "below". Instead players got something which seems like just a poor line lost in translation than an actual hint.
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aris
Arcane
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Do you have the video?
That's is one of the few mechanics that Demons Souls got much better; by sealing off the first level in Boletaria you got a pretty good hang on the fighting plus the world mechanic let you hit any of the other "world" to try out new areas and see if you could handdle them. After a while you got the hang of it; the first level of each world was pretty much doable for staring chars if you knew the game mechnaics and were carefully, while second levels were for higher levels and so on.
I do belive that far from the "this game is for badasses only" it is a game of common sense (which as my mother always says it the most uncommon of all) and one of the most honored RPG systems where if you are not doing well in an area and the mobs are too tough, you get to go somewhere else to get better or try an easier objective.
I remember a time before internet where games like Wizardry 7 or the Might and Magic series would point you out in direct (the magic door to the dungeon is locked) manner or an less direct but perhaps more comprehensible way (as in monsters in an area slaughtering you in seconds) to try different rutes or actualy take heed and check with some npc or questing or even that time honored method of grinding to get better gear and spells to try again....back then we didn't bat an eyelash or complained about difficulty, and let's not even get started with the puzzles.
All in all the Souls games thrive on giving you information, hints clues aleternate rutes and it is ultimetly the players fault if they don't learn from their mistakes.
To this day I don't know how to parry reposte to save my life; I got through either turtling, pyromancy or even some good old fashioned poisoned arrows and the game gave me ample oportunity to learn but I never did, but it still allowed me to try to use my own startegies for combat
I am not one of them master race playas because I beat O&S on my first try but I will say that for of of it hardcore mythos, Dark Souls doesn't hold a candle to the original Ninja Gaiden on the NES man...now that is something that put some hair on your balls back when you where a 12 year old kid! Beating that Jackio fucker and the main demon back to back or getting sent to the very beginig of the level...oh man and those fucking stick to the wall jumps
I do belive that far from the "this game is for badasses only" it is a game of common sense (which as my mother always says it the most uncommon of all) and one of the most honored RPG systems where if you are not doing well in an area and the mobs are too tough, you get to go somewhere else to get better or try an easier objective.
I remember a time before internet where games like Wizardry 7 or the Might and Magic series would point you out in direct (the magic door to the dungeon is locked) manner or an less direct but perhaps more comprehensible way (as in monsters in an area slaughtering you in seconds) to try different rutes or actualy take heed and check with some npc or questing or even that time honored method of grinding to get better gear and spells to try again....back then we didn't bat an eyelash or complained about difficulty, and let's not even get started with the puzzles.
All in all the Souls games thrive on giving you information, hints clues aleternate rutes and it is ultimetly the players fault if they don't learn from their mistakes.
To this day I don't know how to parry reposte to save my life; I got through either turtling, pyromancy or even some good old fashioned poisoned arrows and the game gave me ample oportunity to learn but I never did, but it still allowed me to try to use my own startegies for combat
I am not one of them master race playas because I beat O&S on my first try but I will say that for of of it hardcore mythos, Dark Souls doesn't hold a candle to the original Ninja Gaiden on the NES man...now that is something that put some hair on your balls back when you where a 12 year old kid! Beating that Jackio fucker and the main demon back to back or getting sent to the very beginig of the level...oh man and those fucking stick to the wall jumps
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yeah, really useless and vague
(there's plenty of vague or totally unexplained shit in DaS, but this is not one of them)
meanwhileInPoland
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just listen for fucking 20 seconds and thousands of retards would not suffer catacombs/new londos/graveyards rape. this dialogue of crestfallen warrior is so fucking direct that i cant imagine how else could from software point where to go first. but why talk to first friendly person you meet when you can attack him:patriot: where is my dragon shout? is it that way?
DragoFireheart
all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
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How about the casuls git gud?
If you want hand holding go play Call of Skyrim or Battlefield Duty or some other horseshit.
Go play Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword to practice parrying. When you get good at that, come back to Dark Souls.
If you can beat the final boss of Skyward ala parries, you'll have an easy transition into Dark Souls/Demon's Souls parrying.
If you want hand holding go play Call of Skyrim or Battlefield Duty or some other horseshit.
Go play Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword to practice parrying. When you get good at that, come back to Dark Souls.
If you can beat the final boss of Skyward ala parries, you'll have an easy transition into Dark Souls/Demon's Souls parrying.
Damned Registrations
Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
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Except that isn't what he says when you talk to him the first time (for a full minute), and his tone indicates that he's a reluctant, unhelpful prick. He even explicitly says that what he just told you isn't of much use. Why would you first tell someone useless vague shit and then tell them useful shit immediately after? Petrus and the firekeeper also tell you fuck all. On top of that, he talks about humanity when you talk to him the second time in all likelyhood. He also has lines about the firekeeper. Also totally useless.
What he tells you the first time is that the first bell is up above in the church... while you're standing in the ruins of some sort of shrine with a cleric standing nearby. A shrine that has multiple levels and an elevator leading much higher. Gee, couldn't possibly be what he's talking about right? Clearly the church he's referring to is some other structure because this one doesn't have a crucifix in it.
DragoFireheart
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Why? What?
If you go to New Londo ruins, you'll find ghosts that kill you. You most likely will encounter a dead-end unless your feeling homicidal, in which case you will eventually find the church.
If you go to the Catacombs, you get to experience miserable death and a fairly nasty dead end if you somehow manage to get past all the skeletons (as a new player). A new player going to the Tomb of the Giants and resting at any bonfire there is in for a world of butthurt.
It quickly becomes clear to just take the stairs with the easy enemies. If someone is too retarded to figure this all out then they deserve the frustration.
If you go to New Londo ruins, you'll find ghosts that kill you. You most likely will encounter a dead-end unless your feeling homicidal, in which case you will eventually find the church.
If you go to the Catacombs, you get to experience miserable death and a fairly nasty dead end if you somehow manage to get past all the skeletons (as a new player). A new player going to the Tomb of the Giants and resting at any bonfire there is in for a world of butthurt.
It quickly becomes clear to just take the stairs with the easy enemies. If someone is too retarded to figure this all out then they deserve the frustration.
yup. replayed from the beginning recently, and the crestfallen dude on pretty much every occasion says that line with explicit instructions after you talk to him the 2nd or maybe 3rd time. why the fuck would you be a moron and not talk to him until he starts repeating lines? don't be an idiot on purpose...
Yeah, I remember reading something of his a while back about how he just gave up on Dark Souls because it was too hard to be fun. At that point I realized that he probably just sucks at videogames. (googled a bit, may have been this piece - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...tuation/9361-Death-Mechanics-and-Dark-Souls.2 )
Although, to be fair I had the impression he was oldschool in his love of adventure games. So he could suck at games that require coordination and reflexes but still be oldschool with games that don't.
DragoFireheart
all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
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Because my quest compass was not pointing at him.
Damned Registrations
Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
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Because I'm not an aspie fuck trying to 100% the game on my first run? You might as well say 'why the fuck wouldn't you read a walkthrough every 10 seconds! Only a retard would miss the great hollow!'
He was an unhelpful asshole the first 3 times I talked to him so I left and didn't talk to his useless ass again until Frampt showed up. Whereupon he whined about the smell and I killed him. Sorry for exiting the fucking train I was apparently supposed to be on.
DragoFireheart
all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
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Not an aspie fuck? Then what the hell are you doing in the jRPG section?
These games are made for aspie fucks. They have obscure shit that you might come across on accident. Stuff that is easily missed. Of course we expect you to be an aspie fuck!
UndetectedButthurt
Magister
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So I picked up DeS as my first ever PS3 game. I like the stat system much more - endurance/vitality actually matters and souls are even tougher to get. World/atmosphere is lacking though. Actual level design seems fine but the whole teleport to nexus and back between World 1-1, 1-2, etc is really breaking the flow and makes it too consoletard-y for me. ALSO, the PS3 controller is a nightmare compared to KB/Mouse...
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