From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[Athelas]

Have you tried simply sprinting past the enemies instead of engaging them?

 

[the_shadow]

Yep. It gets me killed (slightly) quicker.

 

[Elwro]

Have you talked with Solaire? If so, do you remember what he said? If you remember this, and act on his advice the next time you leave for the gargoyles, the fight will be easy...

 

[Caim]

Have you talked with Solaire? If so, do you remember what he said? If you remember this, and act on his advice the next time you leave for the gargoyles, the fight will be easy...

Yep. If you look around on the mid level of the chapel you can find another guy. Free him, speak with him at Firelink Shrine and he too can help you out.

Do make sure that you are human prior to doing this, otherwise it won't work.

 

[Raghar]

I get cheap shotted by some skeleton hiding behind a corner. Then I started to think about the trek I'd have to make back and forth between the bonfire and the boss, even if I made it to the chapel. I felt physically ill. I looked at my playtime... 14 hours. I've played the game for 14 hours, and I don't think I've had fun once.

Is it that skeleton you meet when you are going from smith?

 

[Multidirectional]

I don't think summons would make it that much easier for him, guy is obviously just horrible at it. Not to mention bosses have buffed defenses when you use summons, and if a summon dies you are left alone with a buffed boss. I do remember dying a lot in these starting areas on my first char (which are a cakewalk for me now), but I was also having a great time with it. Not his type of game, I suppose.

 

[toro]

Yep. It gets me killed (slightly) quicker.

Drop armour and run.

 

[Multidirectional]

ok one proper advice you can get is try going light load - under 25% percent load and just practice dodging, instead of taking hits with a slower armored build.. are you even trying to watch your weight load? give us more info on what you're doing.. or just start a new char, pyromancer always best for noob build, because you have pyro backup from the start, and its really useful at the start when you aren't as good at just dodging their attacks and slicing them up. and leveling pyro glove costs lesss souls than leveling any magic attribute. btw do you know that stamina in this game is just as important if not more than hp??? did you give a shit about staminna so far??!!! and shit like timing and shield stability and whatnot? git gud faggit for fucks sake
fuck u all i'm d runk so what

 

[Metro]

So I killed the 'necromancer' and mace dude, and finally made it to the gargoyle boss. I dodged a few of his swings, but couldn't land a hit on the bastard. After a dozen more retries, I finally got him down to half health, and another gargoyle appears. For fucks sake.

Anyway, I decided to go back to the Undead Burg and explore it a bit more thoroughly. I managed to get to the lower level and free some sorcerer, and toast some pretty tough skeleton assassins. After accumulating some fire bombs, I thought I'd go back to the chapel and have another crack at the boss. Only to die, and die, and die on the way there. For some reason, the red dragon toasts me almost every time, or I get cheap shotted by some skeleton hiding behind a corner. Then I started to think about the trek I'd have to make back and forth between the bonfire and the boss, even if I made it to the chapel. I felt physically ill. I looked at my playtime... 14 hours. I've played the game for 14 hours, and I don't think I've had fun once.

So yeah, I'm going to call it quits. If you could retry the boss fights without having to trudge through a bunch of flunkies, it would make the whole thing more bearable, but I'm not going to waste my time and sanity to 'get good' at a game which doesn't do it for me.

The game is 99% memory. Once you remember where everything is and figure out monster/boss patterns you eventually prevail. The other 1% is understanding the game mechanics like:

* picking a good weapon and upgrading the right stats appropriately
* knowing the pros/cons of various weapon upgrade paths
* deciding if you prefer dodging or blocking and picking the appropriate weight load/armor
* mastering stuff like kick, backstab, parry, etc.

Summons do make the first boss A LOT easier. Of course you set yourself up for being invaded by going human. After the gargoyles, though, there's only one other instance where the npc summon is helpful. That said, at the bonfires by most troublesome bosses you can find plenty of players willing to assist you and they tend to make fights much easier despite the boss buffs.

What level are you? What are your stats? What weapon are you using?

Edit: Also looking at Steam forums it seems as if they never fixed the download region segregation issues. I could probably help you with a few bosses if you let me know what times you play.

 

[the_shadow]

Thanks for the help, but I've decided to delete the game. If I'm not enjoying myself 14 hours into the game (and getting tips off you guys), I doubt spending any more time with it is going to improve my experience. I've also encountered a few minor issues with the game/controls which, by themselves wouldn't be a big deal in any other game, but combined with the brutal difficulty and repetition, become infuriating. In particular:

- The D-pad on the Xbox controller is 'mushy'. I know this doesn't have anything to do with the game (and apparently it's a common problem with Xbox controllers), but whenever I pressed the 'Down' on the D-Pad to change my usable items, it would also register as 'left' on many occasions, resulting in me unequipping my shield in combat if I wanted to swap between potions and bombs. I'd go to the effort to find a workaround if I enjoyed the game, but it's not worth it at this point.

- Occasionally the camera goes 'behind' objects, other enemies, or even the player character themselves, obscuring your vision for a few seconds. Again, it doesn't happen that often, and was only responsible for a few deaths, but still.

- Sometimes my weapon just flat out misses the enemy, or 'grazes' a wall, despite me being positioned correctly. This results in loss of poise + almost inevitable death.

Those are just nitpicks and aren't my main issue with the game, which is that it's just too bloody hard and grindy. I've only got myself to blame. I bought the game because it was one of the top-ranking RPGs on the Dex, but didn't really investigate further, so I wasn't aware of the grindy nature. I thought it would be like Gothic, where you would explore a rich but gritty world. Unfortunately I couldn't do much exploration when I'm going back and forth between a bonfire and the same group of enemies for the 50 thousandth time. I know that some of the old-school NES games were this difficult, and set back your progress when you died, but they shouldn't do that in a game where there is an emphasis on exploration.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Ah well, one more hollow to add to the masses.

 

[Metro]

Dark Souls is peeeeee much all about combat not exploration. Sure, exploration can help you find a few nice items but the world is barren and 2deep4u (and me and most other people). All the fun is in the combat so if you don't enjoy that, yeah I can understand why you'd uninstall. Maybe come back to it after awhile. I remember not liking it the first time I played but came back after they implemented the Steamworks version.

 

[Shammy]

Dark Souls is peeeeee much all about combat not exploration. Sure, exploration can help you find a few nice items but the world is barren and 2deep4u (and me and most other people). All the fun is in the combat so if you don't enjoy that, yeah I can understand why you'd uninstall. Maybe come back to it after awhile. I remember not liking it the first time I played but came back after they implemented the Steamworks version.

I'd say exploration is a huge part of the Souls series, a focus on combat sure but definitely an emphasis on exploring too.

 

[Metro]

I guess there's places like Ash Lake (if I'm remembering the name right) but most everything else (save for a handful of secrets/items) is on the beaten path.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I mean, exploration is as big a part as you let it be. If you're reading about everything instead of doing it yourself you're not exploring shit.

There really isn't a 'beaten' path. Even something as clearly intentional as Andre can be missed until very late in the game (hell technically you could miss him entirely and still kill every boss, though it'd be wildly unlikely to do so by chance) simply because you chose to explore other areas first and didn't feel the need to backtrack to look for an easier route. One could easily miss out on any of the spell vendors, for example (I'd imagine almost everyone misses at least one of them without spoiling themselves.)

I will admit it definitely had better rewards back before everything had to be balanced for PvP though. Finding the lightning spear, for example, made me feel like a fucking god back when I did my first run. These days it's entirely underwhelming.

 

[Deflowerer]

Dark Souls is grindy? What the fuck?

 

[Night Goat]

Thanks for the help, but I've decided to delete the game. If I'm not enjoying myself 14 hours into the game (and getting tips off you guys), I doubt spending any more time with it is going to improve my experience. I've also encountered a few minor issues with the game/controls which, by themselves wouldn't be a big deal in any other game, but combined with the brutal difficulty and repetition, become infuriating. In particular:

- The D-pad on the Xbox controller is 'mushy'. I know this doesn't have anything to do with the game (and apparently it's a common problem with Xbox controllers), but whenever I pressed the 'Down' on the D-Pad to change my usable items, it would also register as 'left' on many occasions, resulting in me unequipping my shield in combat if I wanted to swap between potions and bombs. I'd go to the effort to find a workaround if I enjoyed the game, but it's not worth it at this point.

- Occasionally the camera goes 'behind' objects, other enemies, or even the player character themselves, obscuring your vision for a few seconds. Again, it doesn't happen that often, and was only responsible for a few deaths, but still.

- Sometimes my weapon just flat out misses the enemy, or 'grazes' a wall, despite me being positioned correctly. This results in loss of poise + almost inevitable death.

Those are just nitpicks and aren't my main issue with the game, which is that it's just too bloody hard and grindy. I've only got myself to blame. I bought the game because it was one of the top-ranking RPGs on the Dex, but didn't really investigate further, so I wasn't aware of the grindy nature. I thought it would be like Gothic, where you would explore a rich but gritty world. Unfortunately I couldn't do much exploration when I'm going back and forth between a bonfire and the same group of enemies for the 50 thousandth time. I know that some of the old-school NES games were this difficult, and set back your progress when you died, but they shouldn't do that in a game where there is an emphasis on exploration.

 

[Metro]

It can be grindy if you obsess over getting a certain weapon/item you want that has a low drop rate. The repetition 'penalty' isn't so much a grind but, yes, it can be frustrating at times.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yeah, this is pretty much the same complaint people level at a lot of other games they suck at (MMOs and jrpgs in particular) to avoid facing the fact that they just suck at the game. If you can do a SL1 run or speedrun the game in an hour, it clearly doesn't require any sort of grinding.

 

[the_shadow]

Dark Souls is grindy? What the fuck?

Well, I'd argue that fighting your way through the same bunch of enemies a shitload of times to have the privilege of fighting a boss that one-two shot kills you is *worse* than grinding, since you don't gain anything, you just lose time and souls. Oh, but I have been told by some people that they farmed souls so that they can level up and fare a better chance at the bosses.

Yeah, this is pretty much the same complaint people level at a lot of other games they suck at (MMOs and jrpgs in particular) to avoid facing the fact that they just suck at the game.

??? I flat out admitted I sucked at the game, multiple times in fact. I'm not willing to invest the time and effort to become an expert at it because it feels like a chore to play. That doesn't make my criticisms of the game any less valid. Why on earth fans of Dark Souls get so defensive and vitriolic when anyone criticises it is rather strange.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I mean, you're playing in a way that is completely unnecessary. It's like playing Civ while refusing to build any units except archers and then complaining the game is poorly balanced. Sucking at the game and not enjoying it enough to invest the time required to get better is fine, I feel that way about a lot of games these days. Fighting games for example. But that doesn't make the game grindy. It's specifically designed against such tactics- stats give diminishing returns very quickly, the cost to gain levels scales up really really fast, and the most important aspect of becoming more powerful is finding the materials to improve your weapons, which requires progression and exploration, rather than grinding. I could probably point out half a dozen things you walked past that could help you in the gargoyle fight without any extra fighting. Nobody notices all the hidden shit on their first run.

Dark Souls is no more 'grindy' than Street Fighter. Getting to the part you died at before with more resources than last time is part of the challenge and skill. Nobody bitches that street fighter is bullshit because it doesn't let you save right after your opponent has his super meter filled because that's when the game 'really' starts. Same shit here.

 

[Akratus]

Gee I really want to hear the opinion of the guy who says he flat out sucks at the game, doesn't like it, and hasn't played more than what was it 12 hours?

 

[the_shadow]

Gee I really want to hear the opinion of the guy who says he flat out sucks at the game, doesn't like it, and hasn't played more than what was it 12 hours?

For how many hours does one need to play a game before they are qualified to give an opinion on it? And I suspect if I'd spent 100 hours on the game and complained about it, I'd have people saying "How can you claim to hate a game which you spent 100 hours on?"

 

[Cadmus]

Thanks for the help, but I've decided to delete the game. If I'm not enjoying myself 14 hours into the game (and getting tips off you guys), I doubt spending any more time with it is going to improve my experience. I've also encountered a few minor issues with the game/controls which, by themselves wouldn't be a big deal in any other game, but combined with the brutal difficulty and repetition, become infuriating. In particular:

- The D-pad on the Xbox controller is 'mushy'. I know this doesn't have anything to do with the game (and apparently it's a common problem with Xbox controllers), but whenever I pressed the 'Down' on the D-Pad to change my usable items, it would also register as 'left' on many occasions, resulting in me unequipping my shield in combat if I wanted to swap between potions and bombs. I'd go to the effort to find a workaround if I enjoyed the game, but it's not worth it at this point.

- Occasionally the camera goes 'behind' objects, other enemies, or even the player character themselves, obscuring your vision for a few seconds. Again, it doesn't happen that often, and was only responsible for a few deaths, but still.

- Sometimes my weapon just flat out misses the enemy, or 'grazes' a wall, despite me being positioned correctly. This results in loss of poise + almost inevitable death.

Those are just nitpicks and aren't my main issue with the game, which is that it's just too bloody hard and grindy. I've only got myself to blame. I bought the game because it was one of the top-ranking RPGs on the Dex, but didn't really investigate further, so I wasn't aware of the grindy nature. I thought it would be like Gothic, where you would explore a rich but gritty world. Unfortunately I couldn't do much exploration when I'm going back and forth between a bonfire and the same group of enemies for the 50 thousandth time. I know that some of the old-school NES games were this difficult, and set back your progress when you died, but they shouldn't do that in a game where there is an emphasis on exploration.

It's not difficult in comparison to similar games, you are just unusually bad at it. I'm pretty sure I had more trouble with Gothic than DS.

It's fine that you don't like it of course, it would be stupid to waste time on a game you don't like.
I'd like to point out, however, because you suck so bad at playing games, by that nature you are not qualified to provide a criticism with regards to the difficulty, calling it grindy etc. So I don't mean it as an insult but because you're so below the average skill, you don't really know what you're talking about.

For how many hours does one need to play a game before they are qualified to give an opinion on it? And I suspect if I'd spent 100 hours on the game and complained about it, I'd have people saying "How can you claim to hate a game which you spent 100 hours on?"

You don't need to spend 100 hours on it but then your arguments have less weight when you can't back them up with knowledge and experience instead of what amounts to IGN's first impressions.

 

[the_shadow]

It's not difficult in comparison to similar games, you are just unusually bad at it.

I'm not sure what 'similar' games you're referring to, but I've looked around and found that many people who played the game shared my sentiment. Even those who enjoyed the game are saying that it is quite difficult, but that you just need to buckle down and 'git gud'. Or are you going to try and tell me with a straight face that a game with the tagline 'Prepare to die' doesn't intend for you to die over and over again?

I'd like to point out, however, because you suck so bad at playing games,

I suck at playing Dark Souls. That's one game. What other games do you think I suck at?

So I don't mean it as an insult but because you're so below the average skill, you don't really know what you're talking about.

You've reached that conclusion as the result of an unsupported premise (ie. that I suck at playing games). Either you have some amazing psychic knowledge of all the games I have played in the past (and my performance in each), or you are using Dark Souls as your only point of reference (which is essentially circular logic).

You don't need to spend 100 hours on it

So by your own admission I've spent enough time on it to comment? Thanks.