From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[Curratum]

I'd trade the monotony of soulsborne for the single-outfit, single-weapon bullshit of Sekiro any day of the week.

Then be my guest. Sekiro still has the best action combat gameplay than all of Soulsborne games combined, though.

It does, and yet it somehow felt the most repetitive and boring of all the games for me. Didn't even find the will to finish it.

 

[Black Angel]

I'd trade the monotony of soulsborne for the single-outfit, single-weapon bullshit of Sekiro any day of the week.

Then be my guest. Sekiro still has the best action combat gameplay than all of Soulsborne games combined, though.

It does, and yet it somehow felt the most repetitive and boring of all the games for me. Didn't even find the will to finish it.

I don't understand how could someone say this with a straight face while proclaiming to prefer the monotony of roll-roll-roll/shield-turtling for few seconds then poke in an attack/magic/pyro/miracles or two then repeat ad nauseum. I guess that's how it is when you can't comprehend how to utilize all the tools given to you and you can only perceive it as parrying/deflecting being the major component of gameplay as another variation of 'roll-roll-roll/shield'.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Because it less monotonous then deflect-deflect-qte.

 

[Silva]

Because it less monotonous then deflect-deflect-qte.

I had this impression too from youtube vids but playing Sekiro now I'm finding it pretty good. They managed to pull out a good dose of depth for a one-attack button game. Spellcasters aside, Sekiro appears to offer much more in-depth melee combat than any souls game. Instead of just the usual block-parry-dodge options in Souls here you also have specific techniques like Mikiri, Nightjar or Ichimonji plus prostetic ones like Sabimaru combo/Axe spin/Umbrella block/etc that really opens up combat to a myriad approaches.

It also expands on Bloodborne "right tool for the job" idea (fire for beasts, lightning for eldritch, magic for pthumerians, etc) only here it seems more complex and less cookie cut.

 

[praetor]

I'd trade the monotony of soulsborne for the single-outfit, single-weapon bullshit of Sekiro any day of the week.

Then be my guest. Sekiro still has the best action combat gameplay than all of Soulsborne games combined, though.

not really. it has some good bosses. the rest of the time it's a shitty "trivially stealth kill all enemies 'cause they be dumb as hell [not implying AI in souls was any better, just to be clear] and it's waaay faster this way, so that you can get one health bar "for free" off of the miniboss, if you so desire [which you should 'cause the minibosses are 99% garbage]"

Sekiro should've been a pure boss rush game like Furi 'cause the regular levels/mobs are so soooo fucking boring. not to mention the amount of recycling with the 45 visits to the castle (that's probably about as much as the recycling in all of the Souls games combined). and even with the singular approach to exclusively single-player with no worry about balance and stuff, they managed to make the vast majority of tools pointless and unnecessary. how the fuck did they manage to do that?!

i mean, i kinda get it. the deflect/mikiri/jump dance with some bosses does feel like a great sword dance, which does kinda make it feel like it has great combat. but with all the flashy on-screen prompts asking you to press that one specific key or you're mostly fucked, it feels waaaay too much like a QTE game (yeah it's not, but it also kinda is...)

still, i'd play Sekiro over DS3 (and probably DeS) any time, but i'd take any of the others 9 times out of 10. dunno. feels more like wasted potential than anything else

 

[The_Mask]

Seath is a joke fight.

If you want Seath's tail, it is very likely you are a mage. If you are a mage, it is very hard for you to run around and odds are you're also very squishy - the tail spasms are going to deal you a new one easy. So it is harder than it looks, for some people.



This adds to the idea that Dark Souls *is* an RPG, and as long as you adhere to the roleplaying (i.e. "I am a mage") there will be ONE area or boss that will be difficult for you.

Spoiler

Also, that MLGS is fucking heavy for a mage. #itsatrap

Bed of Chaos is the cherry on top.

Bed of Chaos is an anti-cheater mechanism. I have multiple threads bookmarked with people duping levels (some claiming to have done so accidentally - those were lulzy) that *still* could not beat Dark Souls because they couldn't shoot a bow twice/shield up and run around/jump a few times/whatever cheese you use for BoC.



There are few things in Dark Souls just thrown in there for no reason. Other than the endless butts of undead dragons, I'm generally hard pressed to find any.

 

[The_Mask]

Bullshit.

Gwyn was obviously meant to be very difficult. His move set is all over the place, hard to track at first and super aggressive. The fact you can cheese it with rocks was probably not intended either and was just a mistake on their part.

Gwyn is the quintessential broken man, and mechanically, the way to defeat his is "to break him". Either break his poise, or break his posture by parrying/riposting his moves. Hiding behind stones and working around his pathing is just a delay tactic. A Chosen Undead meets challenge and adversity head on.

Die 1000 times. Get back 1001.

Spoiler

Which is one of the reasons I absolutely despise people that cheese Manus with a bow.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Because it less monotonous then deflect-deflect-qte.

I had this impression too from youtube vids but playing Sekiro now I'm finding it pretty good. They managed to pull out a good dose of depth for a one-attack button game. Spellcasters aside, Sekiro appears to offer much more in-depth melee combat than any souls game. Instead of just the usual block-parry-dodge options in Souls here you also have specific techniques like Mikiri, Nightjar or Ichimonji plus prostetic ones like Sabimaru combo/Axe spin/Umbrella block/etc that really opens up combat to a myriad approaches.

It also expands on Bloodborne "right tool for the job" idea (fire for beasts, lightning for eldritch, magic for pthumerians, etc) only here it seems more complex and less cookie cut.

Silva I already beat Sekiro and even wrote a lengthy post on the game's faults awhile back. And no Sekiro is the weakest of From output in the last decade.

 

[The_Mask]

I think we need to point out one thing. Dark Souls is an open RPG. This creates a problem in that bosses that a lot of people end up doing later on were probably meant to be done very early. Pinwheel is a good example i'm pretty sure From expected people to do the Catacombs earlier just because it is there from the start. Turns out a lot of people don't go there until they are actually ready to tackle the Tomb of Giants by which point Pinwheel becomes a joke.

Another issue with this open ended design is that whichever boss you decide to do first ends up being the hardest. On my first playthrough years ago i did Nito last of the four big bosses and by that point he was a joke. On my last playthrough i did him first and he took me completely by surprise (i'd also forgot that the skellies stopped spawning if you kill them with a divine weapon which helped making him challenging, at least at first).

But this also brings up some questions about design. How do you deal with this issue? You can add level scaling maybe but that's easy to cheese. Or you can decide to make the game linear which cuts down on replayability. Or you can just accept things for what they are and let players experience bosses differently in different playthroughs. The first time i did the butterfly boss i found it to be very difficult. On my faith build it was a joke, since all i did is zap the thing with lighting bolts until it was dead. For all i know that may have been by design.

This is what Andre of Astora has to say, as you come out of Blighttown, having rang 2 bells (and, most likely, you having your firekeeper killed, thus his bonfire being the one you rest at in a LONG while):
"This is the old church.
It was abandoned in favour of the church that you passed through.
There are paths leading from here to two forbidden planes: Sen's Fortress, and the Darkroot Garden.
They attract all sorts of lunatics, no-one as cultured as yourself.
It's fine to be Undead, but keep a level head, eh?
Hah hah hah!"

When pressed, Andre has 2 more tips:

1. "Sen's Fortress is an old proving grounds built by the ancients gods.
It is the only route leading to the great Anor Londo.
Of course, most fools can't even find their way into that fortified deathtrap."

2. "Oh, yes, and one other thing about the Darkroot Garden.
It is said to house the grave of Sir Artorias the Abysswalker.
Only, of those who ventured into the forest, none has returned."




Now, if you keep talking to him, he does toss this in:

"I know little of the Darkroot Garden.
Although I've heard rumours of a divine blacksmith who resides there.
Those who get stumped in the Catacombs seek him for divine weapons."



The game, at this point, assumes a level of investment. You rang the two bells. Your interest is clearly... awakened (excuse the pun). And so, for the first time, the game become VERY verbose, and - ironically - from the person least expected: the guy hammering all day.
However, the message is clear: Head to the Catacombs, and if you can't deal with the skeletons (BTW there's dev messages on the floor about that ) try exploring the Garden a bit - we got you.

You can't fault the game for making you read a bit.

 

[Silva]

Because it less monotonous then deflect-deflect-qte.

I had this impression too from youtube vids but playing Sekiro now I'm finding it pretty good. They managed to pull out a good dose of depth for a one-attack button game. Spellcasters aside, Sekiro appears to offer much more in-depth melee combat than any souls game. Instead of just the usual block-parry-dodge options in Souls here you also have specific techniques like Mikiri, Nightjar or Ichimonji plus prostetic ones like Sabimaru combo/Axe spin/Umbrella block/etc that really opens up combat to a myriad approaches.

It also expands on Bloodborne "right tool for the job" idea (fire for beasts, lightning for eldritch, magic for pthumerians, etc) only here it seems more complex and less cookie cut.

Silva I already beat Sekiro and even wrote a lengthy post on the game's faults awhile back. And no Sekiro is the weakest of From output in the last decade.

Well, my bad. I thought you didn't play it and was getting impressions from vids.

Anyway, I'm early into the game so my opinion could change too. Let's see.

 

[Curratum]

Anyway, I'm early into the game so my opinion could change too. Let's see.

Sekiro is the worst kind of game. I pirated it on release, got so hyped playing it for the first 3-4 hours, that I immediately bought it the next day. Then another 4-5 hours in, you realize it's nowhere near as good as your favorite Souls and you slowly deflate until you just run out of breath and give up on it.

 

[Curratum]

Read on the wiki that there's a slab behind the waterfall in his arena and casually went down, ready to get fried after I grab it. Started a joke fight, but I had 20 estus from the lord vessel fire and kept hacking at him. Then this happened.

Can't wait to die 20 more times with his health half full while I'm actually trying to kill him.

 

[sullynathan]

Just summon bro

 

[Curratum]

Just summon bro

Curiously, I never summoned for any boss in DS1, excepting O&S and that wasn't even an intentional summon to gank the boss.

I ate a humanity to kindle the fire before O&S for more estus for the battle and as soon as I got up from the fire, I got invaded by some asshole. So I panic-summoned a white and a sunbro because I had zero experience with PVP and didn't want to get obliterated. So I manage to stall the invader just long enough for the summons to come help, he is indeed some weird build I have no idea about but the two dudes wreck him.

Then I casually proceed to the boss fog and they instantly latch onto Smough because they know what armor you want. They offed Smough in less than a minute, then the three of us ganked Ornstein so hard, it wasn't funny. Those two guys were legit crazy, both skilled and OP builds / items.

Never summoned for another boss since, and I just beat Manus today. Not too proud of HOW I beat him, but hey, as long as it works... Now that this random effort on Kalameet went so well, I might actually kill him as well and be done with 100% of the bosses.

 

[toro]

It's weird but honestly I never had an issue with Kalameet.

I probably died 100+ times on O&S, Artorias and Manus but I did not spent more than 5 tries on Kalameet in any run.

 

[Curratum]

I just offed Kalameet on my 5-6th try. If I hadn't upgraded a new weapon to fight him, I would still be banging my head against the wall. I was randomly pre-NG+ cycle things and killed the trader in the Burg and he dropped the Uchigatana, which I had no idea about. Got that baby to +15 with the slab from Kalameet's arena and went back to kill him with it.

Manus is indeed, far, far FAR worse. Artorias I died at least 15 times to. Probably as many or a few more on Manus.

 

[Curratum]

Offed poor old Gwyn today, first time I fought him but after I read you can parry him, I gave up on trying to dodge the fast old fuck and just parried him 5 times and he died...

Just got the lord vessel and killed O&S solo with an Uchigatana +15. The first time I had people helping me, who I summoned accidentally.

 

[toro]

Offed poor old Gwyn today, first time I fought him but after I read you can parry him, I gave up on trying to dodge the fast old fuck and just parried him 5 times and he died...

Just got the lord vessel and killed O&S solo with an Uchigatana +15. The first time I had people helping me, who I summoned accidentally.

 

[cruel]

First playthrough of Dark Souls is an absolutely magical and unforgettable experience, the worst thing somebody can do is to read guides and tips beforehand.

I'm still proud of going through Blighttown and fighting Queelag with Halberd+1 (didn't know titanite shards are infinite).

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

 

[Stormcrowfleet]

First playthrough of Dark Souls is an absolutely magical and unforgettable experience, the worst thing somebody can do is to read guides and tips beforehand.

I'm still proud of going through Blighttown and fighting Queelag with Halberd+1 (didn't know titanite shards are infinite).

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

On my first one I went left to the Catacombs instead of the Undead Parish. I emerged from there after many many many hours, but at least I left there more adapted to the mindset of the game lol. It made the Undead Parish kind of trivial.

 

[toro]

First playthrough of Dark Souls is an absolutely magical and unforgettable experience, the worst thing somebody can do is to read guides and tips beforehand.

I'm still proud of going through Blighttown and fighting Queelag with Halberd+1 (didn't know titanite shards are infinite).

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

I remember being stuck on 1st Black Knight, Capra, Queelag, Q&S, Artorias and Manus. Special mention for the Wheel Skeletons which I still hate to this day.

I made a retarded DEX build with shit output damage but I finished the game with a pair of pants (no armor) and a Katana.

Good times. Ohh ... and I never parried Gwyn.

 

[Silverfish]

First playthrough of Dark Souls is an absolutely magical and unforgettable experience, the worst thing somebody can do is to read guides and tips beforehand.

I'm still proud of going through Blighttown and fighting Queelag with Halberd+1 (didn't know titanite shards are infinite).

The first time I fought Quelaag, I had summoned Mildred beforehand. I was just hanging on by being super defensive, before backing up into one of the lava pools she shits out. In the few seconds in between "You Died" and the loading screen, Mildred actually finished her off. I got a completely unearned 20K souls when I collected my bloodstain.

I made a retarded DEX build with shit output damage but I finished the game with a pair of pants (no armor) and a Katana.

Mine was even worse. I was rolling with a bunch of random armor sets that I'd never upgraded ("It says 'Elite Knight', so it has to be good") and, I shit you not, maining a raw claymore.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I had already completed Demon's Souls twice before playing Dark Souls and therefore knew (mostly) what to expect.

 

[Cryomancer]

My first build on DS1 was a pyro/spearman so except by the BS bosses like Bed of Chaos and Capra demon, i din't had any problem. Dark Souls punishes swordfags but should punishes then harder, make then deal almost no damage to any decent armored enemy. Unfortunately they did the opposite on later games, you can stunlock havel set on DS3...

 

[Elwro]

OK so I fired up DS for sth like 10th time, this time in the 'remastered' version on PS4. They even introduced lag in new places like the Taurus Demon fight! Wow!

But srsly. Could anyone tell me, assuming I'm a complete idiot who needs to be told the most minute of details, how to cheese Ceaseless Discharge? I never managed to do it (despite watching videos); I always end up fighting him 'normally' and it's kinda not really fun