Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,127
Location
Platypus Planet
I'm not saying all of them should be smart because that would be boring too. There should be diverse AI specific to the enemy type. If the enemy is supposed to be a savage idiot then that kind of AI makes sense.. but when you are fighting against, say, the King's Guard? You'd expect a bit more. But like I said, the Dragon warriors in the Shrine are pretty cool.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
I'm not saying all of them should be smart because that would be boring too. There should be diverse AI specific to the enemy type. If the enemy is supposed to be a savage idiot then that kind of AI makes sense.. but when you are fighting against, say, the King's Guard? You'd expect a bit more. But like I said, the Dragon warriors in the Shrine are pretty cool.

So your complaint is you saw good AI but want to see more of that rather than mindless Hollows?

...

Ok I agree.
 

praetor

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
3,069
Location
Vhoorl
i'd also like to see some behavioural/relationship AI in there (again, taking cues from Blade of Darkness... and other games), for the player to exploit (you know, creature X hates Y, they spawn in the same mob, so you manoeuvre the enemies so that creature X hits creature Y and thus engage in deadly combat while you clean up the rest of the mob. yeah, it kinda makes it easier, but also more fun and dynamic and allows you bigger mobs/smarter enemies. basic stuff, imo)
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
i'd also like to see some behavioural/relationship AI in there (again, taking cues from Blade of Darkness... and other games), for the player to exploit (you know, creature X hates Y, they spawn in the same mob, so you manoeuvre the enemies so that creature X hits creature Y and thus engage in deadly combat while you clean up the rest of the mob. yeah, it kinda makes it easier, but also more fun and dynamic and allows you bigger mobs/smarter enemies. basic stuff, imo)

Sounds like Skyrim.

I prefer all the enemies only hate me. I don't need that popamole shit.
 

praetor

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
3,069
Location
Vhoorl
no, sounds like Blade of Darkness, and Blade of Darkness was awesome. i don't play popamole so i don't know if it's also in there.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
no, sounds like Blade of Darkness, and Blade of Darkness was awesome. i don't play popamole so i don't know if it's also in there.

I don't and haven't played Blade of Darkness.

Skyrim had that popamole where enemies would fight each other but would also give anyone not you priority.

:hearnoevil::gumpyhead::hearnoevil::gumpyhead::hearnoevil::gumpyhead::hearnoevil::gumpyhead::hearnoevil::gumpyhead::hearnoevil::gumpyhead::hearnoevil::gumpyhead:
:dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:
:kfc::kfc::kfc::kfc::kfc::kfc::kfc:
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,127
Location
Platypus Planet
Well you can free some dreglings during the Covetous demon which will cause him to go and eat them giving you free space to whack on him. Why FROM gave us such an option on one of the easiest bosses remains a mystery.

Also I just finished the Pilgrim's covenant. Kinda cool places with some tough customers. Darklurker was really neat too. An interesting thing to note, however, is that his soul isn't a dark soul but a normal flame soul. What's up with that? Too many mysteries abound.
 

praetor

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
3,069
Location
Vhoorl
DragoFireheart
then go play BoD (as soon as you can spare some time away from Souls :P), it's as much of a classic as any Souls game, and had the lighting system DaS2 wanted... in 2001! there you'll learn what "deadly traps" actually mean. plenty of fun enemies, some interesting bosses. a "true ending" if you can find all the secrets, dismemberment, bloody dismemberment, excellent level design... bloody awesome game, a true gem
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
DragoFireheart
then go play BoD (as soon as you can spare some time away from Souls :P), it's as much of a classic as any Souls game, and had the lighting system DaS2 wanted... in 2001! there you'll learn what "deadly traps" actually mean. plenty of fun enemies, some interesting bosses. a "true ending" if you can find all the secrets, dismemberment, bloody dismemberment, excellent level design... bloody awesome game, a true gem

Looks like a PS1 version of Dark Souls.
 

Invictus

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
2,789
Location
Mexico
Divinity: Original Sin 2
I actualy prefer better AI than the NG+ option of enemies doing 150% more damage and your char doing half damage but to be honest given the context of the game having mentaly challenged undead with limited AI is fitting.
Having better AI for special NPC like the dragon knights and navlaan was very cool and felt like a dueling game which relied more on player skill rather than the "combat puzzle" system of the PVE of the Souls games but that could get old fast compared to PVP so having a special encounter AI was very cool but better reserved for special encounters rather than having every invading phantom rolling arround
Oh and the whole "amana sucks without ranged attack" is bs; I usually sniped my way up and way but for this particular part I used the dragon shield you get on top of the bastille which absorbed 90% of the magic damage; yes it was a pain making my way towards the caster while the waterrats jumped arround me but it was definelty doable.
No Souls level approaches the cheapness of Valley of Defilment...it was as unfair as the Bed of Chaos
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,299
Location
Terra da Garoa
i'd also like to see some behavioural/relationship AI in there (again, taking cues from Blade of Darkness... and other games), for the player to exploit (you know, creature X hates Y, they spawn in the same mob, so you manoeuvre the enemies so that creature X hits creature Y and thus engage in deadly combat while you clean up the rest of the mob. yeah, it kinda makes it easier, but also more fun and dynamic and allows you bigger mobs/smarter enemies. basic stuff, imo)
As far as I know, every enemy in DS is either hollowed to the point they only seek souls (and you're a walking pot of souls), or their mind eroded to the point where they only execute their last order. Them fighting each other would make little sense.

Also, the only thing that DS should take from Blade of Darkness is locational damage.
 

Admiral jimbob

gay as all hell
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
9,225
Location
truck stops and toilet stalls
Wasteland 2
Blade of Darkness is p good but after a couple of levels you learn two or three reliable combos and do nothing but spam those for the rest of the game. The first hour or two of gameplay is the best.
 

praetor

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
3,069
Location
Vhoorl
As far as I know, every enemy in DS is either hollowed to the point they only seek souls (and you're a walking pot of souls), or their mind eroded to the point where they only execute their last order. Them fighting each other would make little sense.

plenty of creatures/animals in Souls. corrupted, but still animals so i have no idea what you're talking about. it's not like it's 100% humanoids :hmmm: edit: and who said we have to fight only hollowed (or near to) humanoids in every location in every goddamned sequel? a little variety wouldn't hurt one bit

edit:
Blade of Darkness is p good but after a couple of levels you learn two or three reliable combos and do nothing but spam those for the rest of the game. The first hour or two of gameplay is the best.

that's like saying "you soon learn in Souls that magic is OP so you do nothing but spam that". the combat mechanics offer plenty of fun. yeah spamming southern/northern cross or whirlwind or what have you can make short work of pretty much everything, but you have other options. plus there's cool enemies, excellent levels, and great sound design
 
Last edited:

Kanedias

Savant
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
574
That sort of stuff is actually in game, I found out about it when I was trying to make the bullshit jump to the Grand Lance in one of the giant memories. There are some spear soldiers fighting giants, but they do really low damage (they're not expected to win). Before the spear soldiers and the giants there's a group of infantrymen that attack you on sight... I lured these to the part with the giants and they prioritized the giants over me, and absolutely steamrolled them. They surrounded the pyromancer giant (by far the most annoying of them all) and killed him in seconds.

This is the only part where this sort of thing happens, though (that I'm aware of, at least)
 
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
3,585
Location
Motherfuckerville
Not really certain I'd want "good" AI in a Souls game. Player characters are relatively low-capability, so having AI that smartly coordinates attacks, punishes you during recovery frames with quick attacks, or plays really good rushdown game would greatly limit the player's options in combat. It would also, in all likelihood, encourage cheese tactics like kiting/sniping or terrain exploits even more than the game does already. Situations that already exist in DkS2, like enemies mixing up delays/extensions in their combo strings, can feel a little cheap as is...not certain how smarter enemies would work out in general.

I wouldn't mind seeing more one-on-one boss fights with better scripting, though. Few worries of cheap attack-stacking there. Something like the better NG+ Black Phantoms or the Crushed Eye Orb fight would be great. Take those as templates, remove the ability to chain-stun or backstab them, and the skeleton of a very satisfying boss fight starts to form. Flesh it out with some fluff and art design and you've got a real memorable foe. But methinks From would see fights like this treading a bit too much on the Old Monk/Looking Glass Squire design space.

Now for some more PvP (and PvE) highlights/lowlights. Ditched my Dex/Pyro shitcharacter almost entirely, and have been rolling with my Strength/Faith build.

-Thorned Greatsword is excellent. Actually dealing appreciable damage to enemies and opponents is really fun, compared to piddling damage with whatever shitastic Curved Sword or Spear I used in my other character. Also helps that I have access to the wonders of weapon buffs, namely Sunlight Blade. Can shred bosses and enemy phantom's quite quickly, even in NG+. Defender Greatsword is pretty nifty too. The built-in buff and higher proportion of lightning damage can be pretty useful. Unfortunately, yI lose out on that sweet lightning bolt special attack. Smelter Sword can even be pretty fun to use and I'm even experimenting with all sorts of Lances. Strength builds seem to have so many decent weapons...hard to really pick which one to play with.

-I really like backstep/roll cancels. For those not in the know, the windup animation of most spells and attacks can be canceled into a roll or backstep. Not terribly useful for PvE, but outstanding for PvP mindgames. Throw out a Lightning Spear or two that the opponent will likely dodge with ease and make them think you are some sort of newbie. When you throw out another one and they try to punish during the windup, backstep cancel out of it and immediately attack. The Claymore/Defenders/Thorned sweep attack works wonders at catching opponents unaware. The downside is that this sort of cancel costs a decent amount of stamina to do. But employed well, it will really help up your PvP game.

-Low stamina regen really makes paying attention to what you and your opponents use for moves important. It punishes spam of any sort, as a good opponent will know when you are out of stamina and punish appropriately. Really interesting.

-The guard-break move is excellent at snagging turtlers. It's also great to bait out and punish. Pretend to turtle, bait the guard-break from an unsuspecting opponent, drop guard and immediately punish. It's poor against extremely high-poise opponents (like everybody and their brother wearing full Havel's on NG+), as they will often tank the hit while still stunning you with the guard-break, but it works well enough elsewise.

-Some rings are dumb. Old Sun Ring is still dumb, Ring of Thorns +2 is extremely stupid, and Gower's Ring is it's own kind of silly. The only type of counter-attack ring I could really tolerate is something that had a chance of casting the equivalent of Force on hit. This way it serves a function of reducing the chance of stunlock, but it also doesn't randomly kill opponents because of latency.

Gower's Ring is just plain silly, though. It prevents all damage taken from behind. It can prevent 4-5 hits generally, with 6-8 hits stopped when the wearer dons a Bracing Knuckle Ring +2. I don't really know if this is overpowered, but it creates some absolutely dumb gameplay where an opponent puts their front against a wall, chugs Estus, spams Repair Powder, and essentially gains a free reset. There's a lot of moving parts here (the 10 equip burden, for a ring, is nothing to sneeze at), so this might not become Second Chance v2.0, but I think this bad boy is something to watch.

-Really beginning to hate the Major League Gaming Sword. Yeah, yeah, Rebels/Watcher/Magic Sheild is tech, but the thing completely warps the meta. A damage nerf would be nice, but I'd settle for it not being infusable/buffable. That's just too much.

-Bat Staff is also annoying. Getting Dark Fog ganked on summon pretty much has killed my desire to use the RSS (woo-hoo, no healing items allowed!) in NG+ anywhere I think there may be Hexers (i.e. practically everywhere). Also hilarious how much better Hexers are at dishing out poison than dedicated Dex builds are.

-Soul Memory and arena matchmaking still blow. Bluebro arena is worthless given the cost of entry, given the high propensity to be matched up with some SL828 Havel's hexer powerstancing Demon Great Hammers buffed with Resonant Weapon. Yes...that happened. Yeah, I'm salty as fukkkkkkkkkkkkkk. Great job, From! In trying to prevent newbies from being trolled by twinks, you made everyone else suffer through horrible matchmaking. I'm pretty certain the Way of Blue covenant would have sufficed to keep newbies safe from twinking reds (doesn't also hurt that it's much easier to become a Bloodbro than a Darkwraith, meaning red invaders aren't self-selected to be "better" players on average). And it would have made wearing the Sentinel Ring maybe work once. Probably wore it for 30 hours, while human, over two characters at all sorts of times/places/SLs/SMs and not a single summon.

-Fuckin' salamanders, man. Fuse one of these bad boys with one of the Mace Drakekeepers, give it the ability to cast Profound Still, and now you have a worthy final boss fight instead of the absolutely pitiful one we got.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Not really certain I'd want "good" AI in a Souls game. Player characters are relatively low-capability, so having AI that smartly coordinates attacks, punishes you during recovery frames with quick attacks, or plays really good rushdown game would greatly limit the player's options in combat. It would also, in all likelihood, encourage cheese tactics like kiting/sniping or terrain exploits even more than the game does already. Situations that already exist in DkS2, like enemies mixing up delays/extensions in their combo strings, can feel a little cheap as is...not certain how smarter enemies would work out in general.
My point exactly. People need to take a moment to imagine what it would be like if the game was like an endless maximum difficulty match against Igniz or Goenitz.
 

praetor

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
3,069
Location
Vhoorl
yup, the game is all sorts of broken despite some awesome new/changed mechanics. there's still hope because all of the stupid shit can be patched really easily, but we'll see how derpy the new directors are. in b4 Hobo's "but they intended for the game to be absolutely broken on almost all levels, especially PvP!". Old Sun and Thorns could be even acceptable if they broke after 1-2 procs and dealt a bit less damage (as you pointed out previously, there's waaaay too much crap dealing shittons of damage, making PvP end in a matter of seconds [coincidentally, one of the main complaints of DaS1 PvP haters, but now it's ok even though it's faster, more lethal and less skilful than even hornet ring BS fishers]). fingers crossed

and i don't think Hobo (i surely wouldn't) would like to see vastly improved AI on every enemy, but having better AI on some more enemies than the 3 dragon knights in the Shrine would be nice. put them in a new Painted World (pity there isn't some hidden cool levels like that and the Hollow/Lake like they heavily implied 1 month before release "we'ew From it's what we do". i guess the Belfries could be qualified but they're kinda derpy and not that hidden, same for Grave of Saints and Dark Chasm [at least it's hidden]), fully optional area so that most noobs won't even see them. maybe in the DLC?

edit: and yeah, definitely some cool bosses are needed. the only truly entertaining 1vs1 fight has been the Lost Sinner (why haven't they realized their best boss fights to date have been pretty much all the ones in the DLC?), the rest were from full derp (dragonrider) to meh (garl vinland). and none of the multiple opponents come even close to O&S :( hell, just make the dragon knights from the shrine have be bigger/have more health (and not 1-shot you) and there's a difficult, entertaining boss fight

That sort of stuff is actually in game, I found out about it when I was trying to make the bullshit jump to the Grand Lance in one of the giant memories. There are some spear soldiers fighting giants, but they do really low damage (they're not expected to win). Before the spear soldiers and the giants there's a group of infantrymen that attack you on sight... I lured these to the part with the giants and they prioritized the giants over me, and absolutely steamrolled them. They surrounded the pyromancer giant (by far the most annoying of them all) and killed him in seconds.

This is the only part where this sort of thing happens, though (that I'm aware of, at least)

yeah, that's a cool one. but as you say the only instance in the series (well, there's also the Hydra killing the golems, and the Chariot with the skellies)
 
Last edited:

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,127
Location
Platypus Planet
Meh I give up on the Ancient Dragon. I was gonna kill it for fun, but the fight is so boring. It really is the Bed of Chaos of this game. Tedious run to a boring fight. I wouldn't mind the lack of reward if the fight itself was the prize, but, eh.. My only advice is that don't bother summoning anyone for this fight. It's so much easier alone. Also you can reset the boss fight if you absolve your sins so you can use that to get 3 freebies on him before he aggros you again, but it'll get annoying warping back and forth if you keep dying and absolving your sins.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Then again, attacking the Ancient Dragon is not really something you have any reason to do IF you don't know it drops a Giant Soul that makes killing Vendrick (now that's another tedious fight) easier. I mean,

seeing how Aldia is one of the few characters that does help you out free of charge, it's kind of a dick move. Yea, I'd say that the most likely case is that the "ancient dragon" is actually Aldia himself.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
More patch notes:

http://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/..._103_calibration_104_announced_for_april_8th/

  • Changed the "heavy" throwing animation for Corrosive Urns. Reduced corrosive damage to items when hit.

  • Increase in durability on Twin Blade Weapon / Decreased their durability degradation.
  • Moonlight Greatsword can no longer be enchanted and buffed. Attack animation has been slowed / adjusted.

  • The upward adjustment weight, the degree of toughness, the defense of "large helmet of Gerumu warrior" Armor (Thanks Google Translate. I have no idea what a Gerumu is).

  • Reduced damage from the Ring of Thorns.

  • Reduced damage from the Ring of the Old Sun

  • Damage will not decrease for every enemy that Soul Spear pieces trough.

  • Increase in casting time and decrease of damage for Soul Greatsword

  • Upward adjustment of the bullet speed "lump of Seoul to be tracked" magic "crystal mass of Seoul to be tracked", and a lower adjustment of stamina take the amount of darkness surgery "those who follow" (Unsure of the horrible Google Translate)

  • The downward adjustment of the amount of damage "torrent of Seoul" magic (I'm guessing a nerf in Soul Geyser or Soul Vortex)

  • Casting speed on recovery spells being lengthened.

  • Increased casting time and decreased damage for Wrath of Gods

  • Decrease in damage and increase in casting time for all Fire Storm-esque pyromancies. Might also include a decrease in damage for Forbidden Sun.

  • Increased defense for Lucatiel, Benhart, and Manscorpion Tark (one other NPC mentioned).

  • The downward adjustment of the HP enemy "rupture the Dead" (???)

  • Female mages in Shrine Of Amana receiving nerf in both damage and their spell's tracking ability.

  • Fire Lizards in Forest of Fallen Giants will not spit fire in slower intervals.

  • Downward adjustment period the occurrence of the shock wave of attack during downswing enemy of "backpack hammer" (???)

  • The Last Giant now does even less damage to players and Well-Mannered Pate.

  • The Lost Sinner now has less HP and does less damage.

  • Royal Rat Authority now has less HP and does less damage

  • Duke's Dear Freja's laser breath now does less damage.

  • Enemies around Sinner's Rise now do less damage

  • Shadow Men in the Flexile Senty's Boss area in NG+ now do less damage
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,127
Location
Platypus Planet
Well I killed the Ancient Dragon and Vendrick. Both are shitty and boring fights and I'll never ever have to do them again so I'm glad I have that checked out. Vendrick is laughably easy since you can circle strafe around him and his attacks were at least blockable. The only thing you need to keep in mind against the Ancient Dragon is as I said before, don't summon anyone. Also don't over extend your attacks and try to stand in front of him to bait him into using his lame breath before attacking him. I also found that his legs took more damage than his head.

Edit: wow that's a shit patch alright. Just nerfs all across the board.
 

Gentle Player

Arcane
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
2,352
Location
Britain

Was just about to post this. I think the change to the Moonlight sword is a shame, though I imagine I'm in a minority of one. Not because I enjoy being overpowered in PvP (it's not something I care for much - I'll invade and enjoy being invaded, sure, but I'm not so disconnected as to treat an RPG, let alone a Souls game, as tournament level must-be-hyper-balanced à la Quake) but simply because it clashes on a thematic level - spellswords get an iconic sword perfect for their build, but can't use a spellsword's signature ability, weapon buffing, with it. In terms of balance I'd rather they drastically reduce the base damage and improve the scaling so that the sword only becomes worthwhile for pure int builds. Then I'd wager it'd be less common in PvP, and less worthwhile for the already powerful hexers to utilise without them sacrificing other stats.
 

Tribal Sarah

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
316
Location
My dad's bigger than your dad
Why would they bother patching fire lizards? you can run up and hit them, run away then run back. or just use spells/bow. Why not fix that stupid fire demon thing in the keep instead. or, better yet, why not fix the effin servers or make melee classes interesting, instead of spending time on dumb shit like making bosses easier.
 

praetor

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
3,069
Location
Vhoorl
Hobo Elf
tell me how they don't care about PvP :P

on paper (other than the moronic boss nerfs... Last giant?! seriously?! fix the goddamned hitboxes, not the freaking damage/HP, you idiots!) a really good patch, but we'll see how much they nerfed that shit (hopefully not by much, but considering their track record, half the nerfs will be to oblivion)
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom