From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[Zep Zepo]

Secret Ahead, Try jumping.

Zep--

 

[darkpatriot]

Is there some special reason why players are jumping to their deaths from the Majula cliffs near the Emerald herald that I am not privy to?

I think it is because it shows mostly the ghosts of player who die(since that mechanic it is tied to their bloodstain) and one of the few ways to die in Majula is to jump off the cliffs.

 

[LivingOne]

Secret Ahead, Try jumping.

Zep--

"Be wary of bleeding but hole"

"woman ahead therefore try tongue"

"Try horse but hole"

"Visions of giant...but hole..."

and so on

 

[Murk]

The name censor can go sick a but hole indeed. Fight the good fight mein freunds.

Question since you guys are on lore: why are the giants different? Are they different giants? You guys spent all this time talking about stuff but no one mentions why the giants are basically earth elementals with but holes for faces.


I think I am going to try a low SM run or maybe a no death/no bonfire run. And by that I mean rage. I gotta look up if you can light bonfires in the no bonfire run or if you seriously have to walk/run everywhere as here are quite a few places hat are a one-way trip without the feather/darksign/bone.

 

[praetor]

The name censor can go sick a but hole indeed. Fight the good fight mein freunds.

Question since you guys are on lore: why are the giants different? Are they different giants? You guys spent all this time talking about stuff but no one mentions why the giants are basically earth elementals with but holes for faces.


I think I am going to try a low SM run or maybe a no death/no bonfire run. And by that I mean rage. I gotta look up if you can light bonfires in the no bonfire run or if you seriously have to walk/run everywhere as here are quite a few places hat are a one-way trip without the feather/darksign/bone.

you can light them and even use primals to warp back to Majula, so plan very carefully.

as for giants, some people on reddit came up with a neat idea (because in the memories there are apparently some dead giants with actual faces) that they're basically golems/constructs and the "original" giants somehow "transplanted" their souls into those and that they're essentially immune to the curse since they're outside the cycle (that Seed description). or something like that

 

[Murk]

Ohhh snaps, that fits with why Veni the Dick went/invaded -- to somehow find a way out of the curse.

I guess I'll try a hexer or miracle char and do the no bonfire for sure, but hopefully also not die.

 

[praetor]

yup, a very well balanced game.. yes...

 

[Murk]

I was dicking around in the Arena last night and honestly I just don't like PVP because of the fucking position lag.

With the exception of 2 people who legitimately beat me because they played better, every other person who killed me was like 20 feet away and swinging at thin air (on my screen, anyway).

Was funny to see people try one running attack over and over (lance and halberd). What the shit.

 

[Murk]

Velstadt and Vendrick are visually big simply as a mechanism to make them seem intimidating/important. I do not think they are actually 'giants' the way the real giants are. Not sure about the Old Knights and Drake keepers but From likes to take liberties with their character sizes purely as a mechanic to make the characters seem more dangerous and powerful.

For instance, Sif is huge in game but his real size is when you can summon him to help you against Manus.

 

[Jaedar]

Velstadt and Vendrick are visually big simply as a mechanism to make them seem intimidating/important. I do not think they are actually 'giants' the way the real giants are. Not sure about the Old Knights and Drake keepers but From likes to take liberties with their character sizes purely as a mechanic to make the characters seem more dangerous and powerful.

For instance, Sif is huge in game but his real size is when you can summon him to help you against Manus.

I'm pretty sure Sif is a wee little babby at the time of oolaicile and in the main game he's fully grown.

 

[Murk]

Jaedar Nothing to imply that; if he was why would Artorias take a puppy to the abyss? And why would Sif be fully capable of fighting at that time?

Then also take a look at the sword. The sword Sif uses is bigger than Artorias himself; yet when Artorias uses the sword its only twice as big as when you have it.

Donno man, I don't read too much into the size thing. Take into account also the giants. The real giants (smith, Gough, the giant guards in AL) are all clearly much bigger than the Berennike knights and also the black knights; yet those guys are bigger than you. The Berennike knights are humans -- as you can see from Black Iron Tarkus and the Crestfallen Merchant.

 

[Damned Registrations]

But what about Ceaseless Discharge? That thing was literally standing at the bottom of a cliff while it swiped at you. I think creatures with powerful souls manifest themselves differently. For the player, this works as changing your stats, but for enemies, they can become gigantic and start firing lazor beams since they don't have to be worked into a customizable system that won't break when they walk outside the spot you meet them.

Also, weapon sizes don't mean shit. It's not like the demon weapons are the right size either, but it'd be retarded to argue that the stray demon is actually about your size when it can clearly smash through an entire structure, or you can land on it with a plunging attack.

So I think everything really is the size it appears to be- it's just that it doesn't reflect any sort of racial difference necessarily. It's more of a reflection of how that character perceives itself being given form by the power of their souls.

 

[potatojohn]

That is only one melee build and it isn't a viable strategy against many(Most of them unless the character is built right) bosses.

Magic is much easier than melee. Melee is more involved regarding learning enemy patterns(Since you need to get in range of their attacks) and how best to attack them. Magic characters are able to beat bosses that are challenging as a melee character by just staying out of range and spamming attack spells until the boss is dead.

Have you actually played NG with a caster? For most bosses there is simply no such thing as "out of range" and most normal enemies close the distance very quickly. It's the same dodging you do as a melee char except casting spells takes longer than attacking with a weapon. And you have no armor, no shield, no poise.

I played through about half the game with a melee char (mace) and honestly it was easier and way more boring.

 

[Murk]

But what about Ceaseless Discharge? That thing was literally standing at the bottom of a cliff while it swiped at you. I think creatures with powerful souls manifest themselves differently. For the player, this works as changing your stats, but for enemies, they can become gigantic and start firing lazor beams since they don't have to be worked into a customizable system that won't break when they walk outside the spot you meet them.

Also, weapon sizes don't mean shit. It's not like the demon weapons are the right size either, but it'd be retarded to argue that the stray demon is actually about your size when it can clearly smash through an entire structure, or you can land on it with a plunging attack.

So I think everything really is the size it appears to be- it's just that it doesn't reflect any sort of racial difference necessarily. It's more of a reflection of how that character perceives itself being given form by the power of their souls.

Sure. Ceaseless was also not Artorias or a Black Knight -- he was a huge malformed monster. He was also causing lava, but apparently dies when he falls in the lava. I donno if we want to stretch he logic and all that. Some things are clearly huge (dragons, demons, etc.) but for the humanoids I think that many are made visually large for reasons other than them being 'giants'.

If you want an in-setting meta explanation, then what you said works for me. I was mostly commenting from an external view that bigger = more impressive, regardless of the fluff reasoning. I don't really mind either way, but its still not 100% that the size of a character should actually mean anything.

Weapon sizes have to be adapted to player size in some capacity of course, but Sif and Artorias don't have to follow player sizings -- they had the same weapon at two different sizes. Donno mang, it's just a "make it bigger, because why not" thing to me. It's not like Artorias' sword somehow grew in size after he died. Its just a visual/dramatic thing.

 

[aris]

If you play with no shield and use only spells, I guess it poses about the same challenge as playing a pure strength or dex build. Playing with shield is a LOT harder in DS2, and many encounters are much easier to do with dodge rolling, than trying to go at them with full on heavy armor and shield.

 

[praetor]

haha. no. greatshields are as powerful as they were in DaS1 (except now there's no Artorias GS with 88 stability), only the mediums are nerfed considerably in their stability and somewhat in resistances (thank satan for that). the only notable change is that some enemies (mostly NPC phantoms) have and actually use guard breaking moves (that are piss easy to avoid, btw), and that the penalty for blocking with little to no stamina is a guard break (again thank satan for that). harder? yes. a lot? not even close

 

[DragoFireheart]

"Why are some things so strange in this game and make no sense?"

So From has a reason to have us fight Giant Wolves and Scorpion Ladies.

 

[aris]

haha. no. greatshields are as powerful as they were in DaS1 (except now there's no Artorias GS with 88 stability), only the mediums are nerfed considerably in their stability and somewhat in resistances (thank satan for that). the only notable change is that some enemies (mostly NPC phantoms) have and actually use guard breaking moves (that are piss easy to avoid, btw), and that the penalty for blocking with little to no stamina is a guard break (again thank satan for that). harder? yes. a lot? not even close

Plenty of enemies have unblockable attacks, and unless you have an insanely high stability, you can't block most groups for long like you could in DS. And then you have guard breaks, like you said, which can REALLY fuck you over.

That's why I pretty much went away from trying to block most attacks, and just employ dodge rolls most of the time unless it's more convenient to block.

 

[Stonewolf]

Playing with shield is a LOT harder in DS2, and many encounters are much easier to do with dodge rolling, than trying to go at them with full on heavy armor and shield.

Like which exactly, even Smelter can be shieldtanked without dodging once if you want to play like a fag and have a shield with right resists.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Blocking was nerfed in a lot of ways compared to DaS1, both the mechanic and medium shields themselves (haven't tried greatshields yet) - animations for putting the shield up as well as recovery from blocking an attack are longer, attacks push you back more (especially powerful boss swings), penalty for being guard broken is more severe, medium shields are worse at parrying, backstabbing is more difficult and risky, and so forth. Part of the reason greatshields were overpowered in DaS1 was how easy it was to get a shitload of Stamina, and how stacking Endurance till the softcap was the best thing ever for melee. No idea whether the changes to the stat system in DaS2 improve this noticably.

In any event, ranged (not just magic) will always be much easier than melee in Souls, simply because you can attack without making yourself vulnerable. You also have fun stuff like Homing Soulmass which basically lets you never worry about timing. Finally, some spells are simply overpowered in terms of how much damage they do for their stat requirements and amount of casts - Lightning Spear and GRS being the most obvious offenders.

In general, From definitely took it upon themselves to make life harder for melee with a lot of enemies and encounters, but weren't nearly as concerned with ranged.

 

[aris]

Playing with shield is a LOT harder in DS2, and many encounters are much easier to do with dodge rolling, than trying to go at them with full on heavy armor and shield.

Like which exactly, even Smelter can be shieldtanked without dodging once if you want to play like a fag and have a shield with right resists.

Try blocking vendricks tripple vertical swipes and tell me how that works for you. Or block the fire attack of any dragon in the game (try it even with a fully upgraded gyrm shield), or block the old iron king attacks.

Yes, some bosses can be tanked, but for most of them, it's better and easier to just dodge roll away from their attacks.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Another major difference is enemies recoil from hitting greatshields a lot less now. While before you'd only need to block one attack for a sliver of stamina and then they'd reel for 2 seconds, now you have to block a whole 3 hit combo. If you get 2-3 enemies doing that you simply have no openings and they'll wail on you until you're out of stamina (which won't take long.) Also, being out of stamina effectively nullifies your poise now, which makes losing a ton of it to blocking even less useful. Especially since the weight of your shield + armor slows your recovery too. Lastly, lots more enemies have grapple attacks (including bosses.)

Dodging is just way more viable this time around, comparatively.

 

[Jaedar]

In any event, ranged (not just magic) will always be much easier than melee in Souls, simply because you can attack without making yourself vulnerable. You also have fun stuff like Homing Soulmass which basically lets you never worry about timing. Finally, some spells are simply overpowered in terms of how much damage they do for their stat requirements and amount of casts - Lightning Spear and GRS being the most obvious offenders.

In general, From definitely took it upon themselves to make life harder for melee with a lot of enemies and encounters, but weren't nearly as concerned with ranged.

I don't agree in general. I think melee/ranged is about as hard in Ds1 for different reasons(sometimes you really want a ranged attack, sometimes the staggering and faster swing time of melee(and covering a bigger area) is better). I do agree in Ds2 though, none of the enemies have any good way of closing gaps and still being offensive. Compare to Ds1, where even if you roll back from an attack, the follow up can possibly hit you, or the enemy can do a quick jump/lunge attack to catch you(likely dodging the ranged attack in the process)

 

[praetor]

Try blocking vendricks tripple vertical swipes and tell me how that works for you. Or block the fire attack of any dragon in the game (try it even with a fully upgraded gyrm shield), or block the old iron king attacks.

Yes, some bosses can be tanked, but for most of them, it's better and easier to just dodge roll away from their attacks.

why would you block Vendrick when you can just hug his left buttcheek and not worry about anything? and you can block the fire even from the Ancient derper with a fully upgraded Gyrm shield. same for old iron fart (although i haven't tried blocking the laser). playing with a greatshield is almost as easy as DaS1. and dodging was always the best tactic in the Souls games

 

[Shadenuat]

Yeah I don't know what are you guys smoking. There are no bosses which require to perform difficult rolls, everyone can be blocked/strafed/backstepped/healed through. That's why first time I got stuck in the game was on Vendrick, before I realised you just have to hold [shift] and sprint past through him, and that's it.

Shields are still 100% worth it.