From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[praetor]

Another major difference is enemies recoil from hitting greatshields a lot less now. While before you'd only need to block one attack for a sliver of stamina and then they'd reel for 2 seconds, now you have to block a whole 3 hit combo. If you get 2-3 enemies doing that you simply have no openings and they'll wail on you until you're out of stamina (which won't take long.) Also, being out of stamina effectively nullifies your poise now, which makes losing a ton of it to blocking even less useful. Especially since the weight of your shield + armor slows your recovery too. Lastly, lots more enemies have grapple attacks (including bosses.)

Dodging is just way more viable this time around, comparatively.

a lot less? maybe on mediums, but on greatshields even the ruin sentinels (at least the mob version in the castle) and the pursuers (the non-boss version. haven't tried doing Old copypaster before pursuer) recoil from my tower shield (one of the first greatshields you can get. the first with 100% physical iirc) on their first hit. and poise is useless, it might as well not be there. it's pretty much like DeS, but worse because there's no hyperarmour now. my str/fth build laughs in the face of pretty much all PvE attacks with a simple tower greatshiled, gyrm and a rebel greatshield. they may have nerfed the stability a bit, but they compensated by giving tons of stuff with 100% elemental resists (either infused or normal). the best improvement is that now the shield with the best stability requires 45 str to wield (but it still has as much stability as Artie in DaS1), although they've gone way overboard with the resists on that one. the balance is different (and the balance of small vs medium vs great shields makes muuuuch more sense than DaS1), there's maybe a few more threats to your blocking but they're so easy to avoid they might as well not be there. btw, is there any regular enemy that can parry you? i've been parried only by skeletons, and i've heard Lost Sinner can parry, but that's about it.

 

[aris]

Try blocking vendricks tripple vertical swipes and tell me how that works for you. Or block the fire attack of any dragon in the game (try it even with a fully upgraded gyrm shield), or block the old iron king attacks.

Yes, some bosses can be tanked, but for most of them, it's better and easier to just dodge roll away from their attacks.

why would you block Vendrick when you can just hug his left buttcheek and not worry about anything? and you can block the fire even from the Ancient derper with a fully upgraded Gyrm shield. same for old iron fart (although i haven't tried blocking the laser). playing with a greatshield is almost as easy as DaS1. and dodging was always the best tactic in the Souls games

Because he always ends up hugging the wall, where you don't have space to manueveur, or you can't see because the camera angle gets fucked up. So you need to draw him into the middle, where a vertical swipe is almost inevitable. Fighting him was when I pretty much learned to dodge roll, I can dodge roll through all his vertical swings now without missing a beat, even when fat rolling and having 90 in agility (that's how I learned to dodge roll). That's way better than drying to block it and pray to the gods that he doesn't swipe a third time. And yes you can block fire attacks with a fully upgraded gyrm at the cost of your whole stamina bar, leaving you open to the continuation of the attack that will kill you or knock you into the lava pool. I've tried exactly that.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

Yeah I don't know what are you guys smoking. There are no bosses which require to perform difficult rolls, everyone can be blocked/strafed/backstepped/healed through. That's why first time I got stuck in the game was on Vendrick, before I realised you just have to hold [shift] and sprint past through him, and that's it.

you mean exactly like the first game?

 

[Shadenuat]

For DS1 you may drop strafing and backstepping parts

i've heard Lost Sinner can parry

Lost Sinner is strafe to the right&block all the way.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

For DS1 you may drop strafing and backstepping parts

but add facetanking with iron flesh

 

[Damned Registrations]

You probably don't have a greatshield when you fight pursuer (or sentinels for that matter) but even if you did, pursuer has a grapple attack that will fuck you and the spinning attack from sentinels will rape a shield. Besides, you don't even need to roll vs pursuer, you can walk to his side and avoid the slashes that would bounce (and his shield bash will fuck your block up and set you up to get one shot by his 3rd attack.)

Allone knights, pretty much everyone in drangleic castle, all keep going when they hit a tower shield. And since you usually fight those fuckers like 3 at a time, blocking is quite useless. Archdrakes too (while trying to block magic as well no less) will wreck your shield. The varangians in the wharf dual wielding will deplete a whole stamina bar pretty much instantly alone, let alone with a buddy and an archer. The monsters there will fuck you up too. Many more examples in every area.

If everyone in the game has something you can't block anyways, why not just dodge it all and forget the shield to begin with?

 

[aris]

btw, is there any regular enemy that can parry you? i've been parried only by skeletons, and i've heard Lost Sinner can parry, but that's about it.

Pretty sure the dragon knights right before talking with the ancient dragons parry you

 

[Shadenuat]

Er, why not block everything you can block, and just step back/roll what you can't?

Spoiler

Allone knights, pretty much everyone in drangleic castle, all keep going when they hit a tower shield. And since you usually fight those fuckers like 3 at a time

You don't have to fight 3 of anyone at a time, not allone knights (who wield light katanas and can be stunlocked by whatever you want after you block their combo), not statues, or sayan's.

Lol, allone knights.

 

[praetor]

You probably don't have a greatshield when you fight pursuer (or sentinels for that matter) but even if you did, pursuer has a grapple attack that will fuck you and the spinning attack from sentinels will rape a shield. Besides, you don't even need to roll vs pursuer, you can walk to his side and avoid the slashes that would bounce (and his shield bash will fuck your block up and set you up to get one shot by his 3rd attack.)

Allone knights, pretty much everyone in drangleic castle, all keep going when they hit a tower shield. And since you usually fight those fuckers like 3 at a time, blocking is quite useless. Archdrakes too (while trying to block magic as well no less) will wreck your shield. The varangians in the wharf dual wielding will deplete a whole stamina bar pretty much instantly alone, let alone with a buddy and an archer. The monsters there will fuck you up too. Many more examples in every area.

If everyone in the game has something you can't block anyways, why not just dodge it all and forget the shield to begin with?

a) you may have noticed i mentioned explicitly the non-boss Pursuers
b) grapple attacks have always been unblockable, nobody denied that, and the Pursuer's is particularly easy to avoid and telegraphed well in advance
c) the Sentinels spin attack doesn't rape your shield cause after the first spin that hits you they're so close that the attack doesn't hit you at all
d) there's only one room where alonne knights fight you 3 at a time, and even then it's harder to aggro all 3 than 1+2, they rarely chain more than 1-2 attacks and their attacks take little stamina to block (even with medium shields)
e) who in drangleic castles goes through greatshields? maybe primal knights and the lolrandom alonne captains cause everybody else bounces off my greatshield
f) not everyone has unblockables, far from it, and most of those unblockables are telegraphed so far in advance you can just back away (just like in DaS1)
g) i was quite explicit in saying that dodging is always the best option and has always been so in the Souls series

 

[DragoFireheart]

You're both right:

Medium Shields are much worse in this game, but I felt greatshields were better in this game.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I'm pretty sure mace-wielding Drakekeepers don't recoil when they hit a greatshield.

Anyway, the point was that melee with a shield is substantially more difficult than a caster. I would be very surprised if that was untrue with a greatshield, although, again, haven't actually tried.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Er, why not block everything you can block, and just step back/roll what you can't?

Spoiler

Allone knights, pretty much everyone in drangleic castle, all keep going when they hit a tower shield. And since you usually fight those fuckers like 3 at a time

You don't have to fight 3 of anyone at a time, not allone knights (who wield light katanas and can be stunlocked by whatever you want after you block their combo), not statues, or sayan's.

Lol, allone knights.

There is literally a room you HAVE to pass through with a door you can't open without aggroing 3 statue knights at once. On NG+ the room with the allone knights has 3 on each side, have fun blocking that shit. Oh, and the exit always has 2 syan + a primal. The royal swordsmen on the way there (and generally everywhere in the castle) show up at least in pairs with a 3rd shooting at you or a syan knight backing them up. There's ANOTHER room you need to pass through with 3 Syans in it.

Who in drangleic is bouncing off your shield? Royal swordsman two handing greatswords? No. Statue knights? Definitely not. Horsehead statue knights? Fuck no. Syan knights? Nope. Primal knights? Nope. Allone knights? Nope. Only the ruin sentinels (and if you block them you'll have no stamina left to counter attack anyways, assuming the spin attack doesn't break your guard, which it's done for me every single fucking time.)

And fucking every area is like this. What are you going to block in earthen peak? Half the enemies in the iron keep are ironclads and the other half have to be fought while captains fire greatbows at you (those are fun to block while you're on a narrow catwalk over a pit of lava.)

Sure, you can block lots of things and not instantly die, but if the enemy recovers from it faster than you do and attacks again, what was the fucking point? If you dodge an attack, you recover faster and are in a better position to counter attack. If you block an attack, even with a fucking greatshield, you reel for a second, then start to recover stamina and can start an attack (but you probably need to roll away and recover more stamina if you're not going to one shot whatever you're fighting.)

 

[Shadenuat]

Statue knights are simply weak. Allone knights stand in rooms which are connected to other locations with small corridors. For example, when you enter Iron Keep you lure one to left and kill him, then one to the right, and then go the stairs and kill archer. Next room you aggro 1-2 into door and kill them on stairs, then kill archer.
Royal swordsmen are so telegraphed you might as well dodge them by walking around.
The whole drangleic castle is full of ladders and corridors where you can lure enemies into.
Room with cursed painting is big enough to block and kill sayans one by one or lure them on stairs.
The area with 2 syans and mastodon, you can aggro mastodon first, then kill syans with spears.
Ironclads don't require rolling, neither do black-orb shooters or guys with clubs. You can however block+strafe the snake-chick since her spear is shit.

Sure, you can block lots of things and not instantly die, but if the enemy recovers from it faster than you do and attacks again, what was the fucking point?

But a lot of enemies don't recover and can be stunlocked before that. With cloranthy ring you just drop your shield for a second after attack, and you have enough stamina to hit a monster.
I block what I can block and roll what I can't. If there's a douche with a bow shooting me while I run small bridge I will rather block it than roll, if a boss makes, say, 3d attack I'll roll instead of blocking. I laugh at light numerous attacks, I protect myself from random hitboxes and arrows, I can protect myself from some nasty spells by using appropriate shield too.

Who in drangleic is bouncing off your shield?

I actually don't care about that. All I need is a time to counter-attack/reposition myself, that's it (although some enemies who do bounce back are a nice addition).

 

[darkpatriot]

Er, why not block everything you can block, and just step back/roll what you can't?

It seems you acknowledge the points of the people you are arguing with and agree with them then. Not every enemy can be fought by just blocking. Which was the point. If you talk about backstepping then you are not talking about using the shield to tank the hit. Which is the point people you are arguing against are making, that using the shield to tank all hits doesn't work in this game quite often. No one is arguing that shields are worthless or that you will not succeed if you even try fighting while having one equipped. The point was that using shields to tank hits is not an effective tactic against many of the enemies, especially a lot of the bosses.

f) not everyone has unblockables, far from it, and most of those unblockables are telegraphed so far in advance you can just back away (just like in DaS1)

Whether an attack is blockable or not is not the primary measure of whether using shields to tank hits an effective tactic. Lot of bosses have attacks that are all(or almost all) blockable. The problem comes in that once you block them you don't have the stamina left to make attacks while still being able to maintain a defense after attacking them. That is why using shields to tank hits doesn't work against a lot of bosses. Because you don't have the stamina to keep up blocking effectively and attacking effectively.

 

[Shadenuat]

No one is arguing that shields are worthless or that you will not succeed if you even try fighting while having one equipped.

Well some people totally do that. "I equipped the shield and nobody bounces off in Drangleic castle! shields sux" and then I watch videos how people facetank Mirror Knight while sunbroing, right.

Also, don't forget that some weapons have better move sets when they are used with one hand.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

So, utilizing the advice of bros in this thread, I decided to grind the Sunbro covenant on Rotten rather than Smelter Demon. Going quite well so far, occasionally the host dies from the first attack, but it's not too bad.

Royal swordsmen are so telegraphed you might as well dodge them by walking around.

I agreed with most of your points, but this is contrary to my experience. Almost all of their attacks track like hell. Walking out of range works fine, circling doesn't.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Hey guys, punching doesn't kill you, why not punch enemies AND use weapons?!?

I just fought Mytha a couple days ago for the 3rd time, and had to give up the shield I was trying to use and just roll behind her, because she spammed attacks way too fast for me to do anything after blocking.

If your argument is that you can use a shield to block while phantoms kill the boss for you then, yeah, shields are AWESOME. So is hiding in a corner till it's all over. You can also just draw them to the limit of their aggro range and toy with them using arrows. Doesn't make dumping 30 into str to use a shield worthwhile.

I've honestly been one handing my weapons without a shield more often than using a shield on my current run, and it hasn't been for lack of trying the shield in each area. It's just really fucking useless.

 

[Niektory]

Real men grind Sunbro on Ancient Dragon.
I've had one success so far.

 

[Shadenuat]

I agreed with most of your points, but this is contrary to my experience. Almost all of their attacks track like hell. Walking out of range works fine, circling doesn't.

Well walking back counts as walking around, no? I killed like 50 of them near castle gates because I thought you need to kill enough to enter the castle. I broke my claymore and then almost broke my backup heide sword, and found out the golems gimmick just by chance.

I just fought Mytha a couple days ago for the 3rd time, and had to give up the shield I was trying to use and just roll behind her, because she spammed attacks way too fast for me to do anything after blocking.

Block-block-strafe/roll right when she makes most powerful stab. Can also block until she starts throwing her head around. I lolblocked her just like Najka or Lost Sinner.

Doesn't make dumping 30 into str to use a shield worthwhile.

You don't have to (although 29 for Rebel's Shield which blocks ALL THE WORLD 95% OMG HAVEN I WANT). There's Defender's which is quite gut (nice stability for medium shield), King's, Llewelyn is fairly balanced (and I believe it has fast parry?), magic with 95% mag resist and I think one with possible 100% dark? I don't remember name of that particular one.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Balls, veldstats soul gives me either his big fuck off bell hammer or a miracle buff.

 

[Fockatar]

Balls, veldstats soul gives me either his big fuck off bell hammer or a miracle buff.

I took the buff, it takes four...FOUR...slots. But it seems good enough. My bro took the hammer and was fucking shit up so easily he got bored with the game so take that as you may.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Block-block-strafe/roll right when she makes most powerful stab.

So in other words you rolled instead of blocking. Wow, thank god you had that awesome shield to make rolling so effective.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Balls, veldstats soul gives me either his big fuck off bell hammer or a miracle buff.

Hammer is shit, avoid it unless you are going for all weapons achivement.

 

[Shadenuat]

Block-block-strafe/roll right when she makes most powerful stab.

So in other words you rolled instead of blocking. Wow, thank god you had that awesome shield to make rolling so effective.

 

[Newfag-er]

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't wielding a sheild in your back prevent backstabbing?

Cause I had this invasion with this women in Huntsman corpse, and I cannot backstab her whatsoever when she two hand her sexy scythe.

Also some random note, GRS is pretty bad if you lose your souls alot. Or just cheap as fuck

 

[Damned Registrations]

You realize if you just roll right from the first stab, the second two miss anyways and you can attack before she's even finished trying to stab you, and this requires the same number of rolls but no shield whatsoever (which would make the roll easier by lowering your weight about 20%.)

Blocking serves no purpose there at all. It's like shield bashing once before doing your actual attack and then arguing shield bashes are super awesome.