From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[abija]

Shooters are not designed based on the opponent re-actively avoiding a rocket fired in close proximity. Non-hitscan bullets you don't avoid either, the opponent misses.

Idk what shooters you played but p2p was deemed improper for anything but lan play since quake world. Even on a client - server approach, if you go past 50-100ms you are fucked in close combat in pretty much every shooter I played.
Hell, for Q3 we used dedicated servers even on lan otherwise the host would rape too hard with lg. If DS would use similar netcode you wouldn't be able to avoid anything coming from the host.

unless you're playing chess or hearts, pretty much every friggin multi game with some PvP is "fast enough" to require some sort of prediction. if GRS is "fast" what are bullets in non-hitscan shooters?

Starcraft 1 and 2 (warcraft and probably many other RTS games since everyone copied blizzard) wait for all players in the game to receive and acknowledge an action and they're actually fast games. Every type of game has a different requirement from online play, some are really sensitive to latency others not so much.

DS has similar issues with fighting games, not with shooters. Fighting games struggle really hard with online play.

yes, it's very easy when you have a server dedicated to matchmaking

The moment you compared DS with shooters and GRS with non-hitscan bullets you proved you have zero clue about the subject. So this other imbecility wasn't surprising.
But hey... carry on being edgy...

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

Only thing makin' ma butt hurt is that damn alt+f4; how many mofugs play with mom as their copilot?

EDIT: I like the passive aggressive threat he had with the "I wonder how the server admins will find this" comment. Jesus, nut up and threaten like you mean it.

Does the stunlock work with axes as well? You said rapiers/red rust sword but the RRS has an axe moveset.

It's classified as a straight sword so I guess that's why it works as a straight sword when powerstanced? Axes i've tried didn't inherit the straight sword moveset.

Other broken shit - Bandit Axe right hand, Gyrm Axe left hand. You get the mace/club powerstance with the crazy 3 hit combo or whatever.
Also, Parrying Dagger right hand, Royal Dirk left hand. L1-R1 tanimura rush stunlock FTW.

Edit: I, for one, welcome our new sperglord king!

Spoiler

 

[praetor]

Shooters are not designed based on the opponent re-actively avoiding a rocket fired in close proximity. Non-hitscan bullets you don't avoid either, the opponent misses.

Idk what shooters you played but p2p was deemed improper for anything but lan play since quake world. Even on a client - server approach, if you go past 50-100ms you are fucked in close combat in pretty much every shooter I played.
Hell, for Q3 we used dedicated servers even on lan otherwise the host would rape too hard with lg. If DS would use similar netcode you wouldn't be able to avoid anything coming from the host.

unless you're playing chess or hearts, pretty much every friggin multi game with some PvP is "fast enough" to require some sort of prediction. if GRS is "fast" what are bullets in non-hitscan shooters?

Starcraft 1 and 2 (warcraft and probably many other RTS games since everyone copied blizzard) wait for all players in the game to receive and acknowledge an action and they're actually fast games. Every type of game has a different requirement from online play, some are really sensitive to latency others not so much.

DS has similar issues with fighting games, not with shooters. Fighting games struggle really hard with online play.

yes, it's very easy when you have a server dedicated to matchmaking

The moment you compared DS with shooters and GRS with non-hitscan bullets you proved you have zero clue about the subject. So this other imbecility wasn't surprising.
But hey... carry on being edgy...

i compared DS with shooters? your question was about who made better netcode, without many specifics, but i was kind enough to provide a similar game in my very first reply, but i guess Blade of Darkness is a shooter now. the blindness and retardation of fanboys is mind-boggling. their netcode has been pretty shit since 2009 and it almost hasn't improved one bit, only their hitbox handling got much worse so the problems with lag are even worse, and the matchmaking got so retarded there isn't a word in all the languages in the world to describe the stupidity. but please, do go ahead and keep defending them

 

[Murk]

you guys are fuggin' up arguing technical shit; the real discussion is whose got flyer kicks

 

[Cowboy Moment]

praetor, when was the last time you played "Quake 1 on a 56k modem"? Because I play Quake 3 semi-regularly with bros, hosting my own internet-facing server, and we start seeing prediction artifacts (for example, if a player starts spinning rapidly in the air, they start teleporting small distances instead of moving smoothly) at around 150ms. Honestly bro, you sound extremely butthurt about all this. Maybe you should really just find another game that wouldn't make you this upset.

abija is right in general, From's netcode isn't very good, but almost nobody does "very good" with similar requirements. They could probably do better if they really wanted to, but I don't think they care enough. Simplest fix would be to host arena games on an actual server, I guess.

Also, fun fact: Stacraft 2 actually has a built-in 200ms latency to the server as a way of making online play more consistent. It's really easy to see by playing online for a bit, and then firing up a local skirmish against AI.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

you guys are fuggin' up arguing technical shit; the real discussion is whose got flyer kicks

that giantdad pulling zweihander out at the end

 

[Murk]

same thing got me going roflewffle. I love grandad from boondocks as it is -- those who don't watch the show, grandad regularly pulls his belt out and beats the kids (well, Riley anyway).

 

[Murk]

UndetectedButthurt and I have too much time. We tested armor values and damage based on AR and damage type. It's basically purely linear.

Spoiler

Ok, so, firstly how we did this. Person attacking me had 99/99 str and dex and so they did not have bonus str when 2handing, and only the move itself was increasing damage. We did not test counter hits, weapon tip versus full body (all were full hits), or halberd deadspots (not hitting with the head).

No elemental infusions, all physical. My character has 90 natural armor and so that was the lowest we could get. For the slashing damage I unfortunately do not have the 90 armor value, but the rest fits the usual pattern.

So, the graph is below -- some notes.

X-axis (horizontal) is the armor value at that time. They are somewhat rounded (330 instead of 337) so they are not 100% precise, but very very close (like, off by 5 armor).

Y-axis, damage done by 1-handed (blue dot) and 2-handed (red square).

You'll note a few things. 1) the relationship is linear, 2) the correlation for all armor-damage ratings across all damage types was pearsons r -.9999 (it was probably really a 1.0, but since my armor values were rounded it has some error). So, basically, armor and damage are perfectly linear with a few caveats discussed after the image. Image below:

Image click here

Caveats: as best as we can tell, from mostly anecdotal observation, each 'move' has its own attack mutliplier. This explains why some weapons of same damage type (king's ultra greats word and giant's club) deal weird damage. the UGS had higher AR, but did less damage than the giant's club, presumably (and this is my assumption) because of the "move" being different.

Also, we did not test.... red tear stone, counter damage, tip/body, or halberd sweet spot vs halberd handle. I believe red tear stone and counter damage are percentages applied outside the formula to end result damage, and so it would just take whatever numbers are there and add 35%. This is an assumption and so should not be accepted as fact. The blue tear stone seems to work this way from our testing and so I assume the red tearstone does as well.


Conclusion: at exactly 0 armor, the one-handed r1 of a weapon will do exactly AR damage to an enemy and the 2handed r1 will do 1.2x AR damage.

other conclusion: phys armor does not work like elemental armor.

K bye.

Link to graphs: http://i.imgur.com/6TG1tQD.png

x axis = armor, y axis = damage

 

[Kanedias]

Person attacking me had 99/99 str and dex and so they did not have bonus str when 2handing, and only the move itself was increasing damage

In this game the bonus STR when two handing a weapon only works for the requirements, it doesn't give you any extra AR. For example if you have 10 STR and you're two handing a weapon that requires 20, you will be able to use the weapon but it will still scale with your 10 STR. It's different than how it worked in Dark Souls 1.

 

[Murk]

Cool; no change in the numbers but good to know.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

new one from Bellfreed Luna video guy

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

you guys are fuggin' up arguing technical shit; the real discussion is whose got flyer kicks

that giantdad pulling zweihander out at the end

It's even better that when the zweihander is pulled out BASS CANNON starts.

 

[Kanedias]

Someone tested the scaling of buff durations

It is very interesting, as it shows some things I didn't know

1) Buffs only scale with the stat of their respective catalyst. This means that given a hex buff, you are free to spice down the int or faith half. For example, Numbness is a staff hex, so you are free to spice down its faith requirements to 10 and it won't take a hit to its duration.

2) Numbness is even more ridiculous than I thought. At 50 int, it already lasts more than a full minute. It reaches its cap at 61 int, lasting 88 seconds. Pre-patch it used to last 20 seconds, now 20 seconds is its minimum duration (at 10 intelligence).

P.S.: Bandit is a good starting glass for a sorcerer build. And with a meager 2 point investment, you can have 10 faith which means spicing down Numbness...ugh. In short, every mage can have a ridiculously long Numbness with a minimal effort.

 

[praetor]

P.S.: Bandit is a good starting glass for a sorcerer build. And with a meager 2 point investment, you can have 10 faith which means spicing down Numbness...ugh. In short, every mage can have a ridiculously long Numbness with a minimal effort.

huh? if by "sorcerer" you mean someone focusing on Int with 10Fth for some spiced hexes, then no. almost every other class is better cause bandit has 11 points invested in the 3 spellcasting stats at SL 11, while every other class has more at same or lower SL. i guess he'd be acceptable in some combos if you want to rely on witch hat + ring for 4 slots, but other than that, Bandit is only good for pure melee

 

[Kanedias]

I thought Bandit was the best class for everything except some mundane builds. I had checked this stuff long ago when I made my sorcerer (2nd character, and I stopped using it) so I may be wrong.

My understanding was that it doesn't matter how many points the class has into stats you need, but how many it wastes on stats you don't need, and the Bandit class focuses on stats that are useful for every build. The class finder thingie when making builds tends to always point me to Bandit, too (or Bandit is the same as the class it suggests).

Anyways, like I said, I may be wrong.

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

Why would it matter when all stats are gonna be 99 anyway?

Also, i've encountered some douche who kept fisting me while rolling. So we tested some shit with mikayel and you can cancel powerstanced L1 for daggers/fists/caestus and get a hit in before going into roll animation.

 

[Murk]

Donno why you guys are bothering with anything; just get a broadsword or longsword and spam r1. Not even the rush, just r1. Then win. Then go home.

 

[Jasede]

...and be a family man.

 

[StaticSpine]

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

Meet Saq Madiq, SL1 master of middle-eastern martial arts.

Spoiler

 

[Shadenuat]

He looks ace

..er, so, now weapons whatsoever?

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

Dunno man, just got the vanq. seal. We'll see how that goes.

 

[Murk]

It's better than the mace which is basically the best weapon you can use

or toss on two broken straight swords and mash them shoulder buttons bra ;D

who'd you farm for the seal? Rhoy?

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

Majula chest event gave me just enough ascetics to dump Rhoy off the bridge 50 times.

 

[Murk]

noice.jpg

I pancaked him for a while because apparently he can just drop awestones as an item (as well as the one you get for the kill). If you pancake then go behind, they don't roll upon getting up letting you pancake again.

But dropping is faster.