From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[Cowboy Moment]

Maybe play Dota2 instead? Or Quake.

 

[Murk]

that's like telling the whole codex to just play other games instead of bitching about RPGs

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Just trying to be helpful. It's an interesting question though, what would be the best substitute for Souls PvP? Maybe some kind of fighting game? Blade Symphony?

 

[Murk]

In it's current state? A still-broken first generation MMO, like Ragnarok Online.

EDIT: Coincidentally, the max level in that game is 150. /smug face

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Just trying to be helpful. It's an interesting question though, what would be the best substitute for Souls PvP? Maybe some kind of fighting game? Blade Symphony?

There's really no substitute, to be quite honest, which is likely the strongest appeal.

I can scarcely think of any sort of (non-shooter) adversarial, technical-action games that:

-Have a wide variety of customization in order to create your own "character". Think MUGEN, but with an actual game behind the

-Have a strong single player component that serves as both a fully-realized, stand-alone experience and a sort of "training mode" to build your character and become acquainted with their capabilities.

-Allow for player numbers beyond 1v1 and can support more than two player factions. Places like the Forest Hunter or Belfry Guardian areas can make for some interesting three way battles.

-Make terrain a central elemental of PvP gameplay. Most fighters completely ignore this or make it a bullshit gimmick like Mortal Kombat, Soul Calibur, or whatnot. Power Stone, Smash Brothers, and kaiju fighters (Godzilla, War of the Monsters, etc.) are the only real examples I can think of, and most interactions aren't nearly as interesting as the way they can be in Souls games, especially Dark Souls 2.

-Are reasonably accessible. I know that easy to learn fighters are much disdained by more competitive players, but I believe the Souls series fills an important niche. Due to the wide skill/knowledge spectrum, matchups are often lopsided to those not in the, spitballing here, top decile of composite skill/game-knowledge. One match a median skill player could be paired against someone who can scarcely perform a dragon punch input (to be fair, it's not the easiest thing) and the next against some Daigo-tier guy that is performing just-parries and perfectly linking/canceling attacks into one another. Obviously, neither of these will be satisfying bouts, and they aren't particularly uncommon events.

Souls games are extremely easy to learn, there are zero complex inputs, and nothing particularly reflex-intensive. While this streamlining means that high-level PvP is nowhere near as technically interesting nor in-depth as a proper fighter, I feel that, controlling for level/equips/brokenshit, most players will have more satisfying matches in which they interact meaningfully with their opponent. Mind games seem to be critical in more PvP matches because there are not enormous skill gaps.

I can't think of any that combine all of these. Souls PvP, while unbalanced (unsurprising giving how ambitious the project is), is unique in what it accomplishes. Probably the key source of its staying power.

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS LOLLOLLLL I GOT DARK SOULS 2 TODAY FOR THE FAGBOX I AM HAPPY

 

[DragoFireheart]

I wish From would make a game with the level quality of Dark Souls 2, mechanic changes from Dark Souls 2, and the netcode/dedicated servers from Demon's Souls.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Dark Souls 2 has "dedicated servers" the same way Demon's Souls has them, afaik. As in, they're there for matchmaking.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Dark Souls 2 has "dedicated servers" the same way Demon's Souls has them, afaik. As in, they're there for matchmaking.

I thought this wasn't the case for Demon's Souls?

As in, the server is for both message AND match making.

 

[Murk]

Undetectedbutthurt and I had some issues seeing signs in certain areas but not others. So, red signs seem to show up the easiest then small soap stones and then large ones. In the aerie, we could get our red signs just fine. The small signs fine, the large ones... nope. Not even with the engraved ring. Everywhere else we went, large sign worked just fine.

Not sure what the hell it is, but I want to conclude that team B's dick is quite limp. Or something.

 

[praetor]

I wish From would make a game with the level quality of Dark Souls 2, mechanic changes from Dark Souls 2, and the netcode/dedicated servers from Demon's Souls.

the netcode in DeS was atrocious. it may have had better/faster matchmaking, but the actual netcode was utter shit. i wish instead of them making it they'd hire someone who knows what the fuck "net" and "code" means. and immediately fire... from a cannon directly into the sun, or even better in the supermassive black hole in the centre of the galaxy, the fucktard who is responsible for SM

 

[Zeriel]

Once we used sign ring in conjunction with other summoning stuff, I never had problems with summoning people in at all. It's worth knowing that the game forces a recheck of sign presence when you campfire, though, so... yeah. Otherwise it seems to work on a fairly slow pulse when you are already just dicking around in the level.

 

[DragoFireheart]

I wish From would make a game with the level quality of Dark Souls 2, mechanic changes from Dark Souls 2, and the netcode/dedicated servers from Demon's Souls.

the netcode in DeS was atrocious. it may have had better/faster matchmaking, but the actual netcode was utter shit. i wish instead of them making it they'd hire someone who knows what the fuck "net" and "code" means. and immediately fire... from a cannon directly into the sun, or even better in the supermassive black hole in the centre of the galaxy, the fucktard who is responsible for SM

I guess I had better memories of Demon's Souls (despite playing it after Dark Souls).

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

Man... You don't mess around with the physical AR of the ruler's sword. If only it had the claymore moveset...

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

I just fought a katanahavelmagebuttholeface named xTr4yv0n420x. It has to be a troll. It has to be...

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

Bros, my trolling has left some srsfags severely butthurt.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/236430/discussions/0/540744935527991080/

There is a fine line between a cheat and an exploit, particularly when the latter is used intentionally and repeatedly. How the server team feels about this particular one I have no idea, but you might find out soon.

The tryhard griefer: Full ironclad armor + broken weapons with poison + stamina trainer = spam r1 and L1 until your oponent gets his whole gear broken after 5 minutes of swinging and running while getting 50 dmg per hit then taunt.

It warms my heart that people think I'm cheating when I'm just using two common in-game weapons. B-team strikes again!

 

[Murk]

Only thing makin' ma butt hurt is that damn alt+f4; how many mofugs play with mom as their copilot?

EDIT: I like the passive aggressive threat he had with the "I wonder how the server admins will find this" comment. Jesus, nut up and threaten like you mean it.

Does the stunlock work with axes as well? You said rapiers/red rust sword but the RRS has an axe moveset.

 

[abija]

the netcode in DeS was atrocious. it may have had better/faster matchmaking, but the actual netcode was utter shit. i wish instead of them making it they'd hire someone who knows what the fuck "net" and "code" means.

You should write them a mail pointing out some fast action games with good p2p netcode across continents, just so they know where to start looking.
Hell, you can include server based solutions too and also send it to the guys making fighting games.

Or better yet, just write a white paper providing solutions for implementing frame based gameplay over 50-500ms latency.

 

[Kanedias]

I wish From would make a game with the level quality of Dark Souls 2, mechanic changes from Dark Souls 2, and the netcode/dedicated servers from Demon's Souls.

the netcode in DeS was atrocious. it may have had better/faster matchmaking, but the actual netcode was utter shit. i wish instead of them making it they'd hire someone who knows what the fuck "net" and "code" means. and immediately fire... from a cannon directly into the sun, or even better in the supermassive black hole in the centre of the galaxy, the fucktard who is responsible for SM

From the 4Gamer interview about Bloodborne

4Gamer:
I wondered this when I first interviewed you about Demon’s Souls, but do you come up with these new network features all by yourself?

Miyazaki:
Yeah. I mean, I like to bounce ideas off trusted members of the team, and I get a low of new ideas by doing that, but when you’re first thinking of network features, it can be very conceptual and abstract, so I spend a lot of time, comparatively, thinking of them by myself. This may apply to all aspects of my games, but especially with the network features, it can be very hard to get other people to understand my ideas (laughs).

4Gamer:
Interesting… So, do you have a pretty deep knowledge of how network services are designed?

Miyazaki:
No, not really.

 

[StaticSpine]

4Gamer:
Interesting… So, do you have a pretty deep knowledge of how network services are designed?

Miyazaki:
No, not really.

[/QUOTE]
Non of From Software employees seem to have that knowledge.

 

[praetor]

You should write them a mail pointing out some fast action games with good p2p netcode across continents, just so they know where to start looking.
Hell, you can include server based solutions too and also send it to the guys making fighting games.

Or better yet, just write a white paper providing solutions for implementing frame based gameplay over 50-500ms latency.

dude, at the very fucking least they should give me the option to select the ping that is acceptable for matchmaking, not a non-working region restriction option that is basically "whole world" and "whole world - japan", because having a match with acceptable ping every 10 minutes is much less frustrating than having half the matches be vs people who teleport around, can't be damaged, and then take damage after a minute of nothingness. that alone is enough of a clue at how fucking idiotic their net coders are.

Souls... fast? this isn't DMC or Ninja Gaiden or Street Fighter. fucking Blade of Darkness over 56k modems a decade ago was flawless in comparison to this.

and why the fuck would i write a paper for which i won't get a cent and, in all likelihood, the idiots at From B wouldn't even understand? ah, yes, this is the codex where morons think "you cannot criticize something if you can't make it better" is a valid argument

 

[abija]

No, it's the "you cannot criticize something, if nobody made it better" argument.

You seem to think matchmaking based on ping limits between the 2 potential peers is something easy to implement, or you wouldn't type "at the very fucking least". Do you have even a hint of technical expertise in this field or just argue for the sake of it?

Then there's the part where the game doesn't have such a big player base and they want active multiplayer... Allowing players to split it even more with options is extremely dangerous. I might be wrong but this game doesn't seem to fit itself in the "sacrifice everything for fair matchups" category. My impression was they just wanted some form of MP that fit and added to the atmosphere of the game.

And yes, it's fast enough to require compensation (katana swing or GRS cast is what, 300-400ms and requires aprox 200ms to even be represented on the opponent PC even with good latency, then another 200 for your client to be aware of any counter executed). When you're forced to adjust a lot of data all hell breaks loose and you just start trading a shit situation for another.




But w/e, thump your chest and demand justice, not like from gives 2 fucks...

 

[DragoFireheart]

4Gamer:
Interesting… So, do you have a pretty deep knowledge of how network services are designed?

Miyazaki:
No, not really.

 

[praetor]

No, it's the "you cannot criticize something, if nobody made it better" argument.

every friggin shooter in the history of (PC at least) gaming made it better. there was less lag on 56k connections on quake 1 in 1996 (can't speak for Doom, Duke etc 'cause that was before i got a decent modem)

You seem to think matchmaking based on ping limits between the 2 potential peers is something easy to implement, or you wouldn't type "at the very fucking least". Do you have even a hint of technical expertise in this field or just argue for the sake of it?

yes, it's very easy when you have a server dedicated to matchmaking

Then there's the part where the game doesn't have such a big player base and they want active multiplayer... Allowing players to split it even more with options is extremely dangerous. I might be wrong but this game doesn't seem to fit itself in the "sacrifice everything for fair matchups" category. My impression was they just wanted some form of MP that fit and added to the atmosphere of the game.

players teleporting and not taking damage and then backstabbing through floors does not add to the atmosphere unless you're a cum-guzzling fanboy, and gives a whole new meaning to "unfair matchups".

yeah, they want active multi, that's why there are barely any invasions in NG (not that i's that much better in NG+) and co-op is almost dead thanks to SM, and they obviously thought splitting the playerbase by region wasn't that big of a deal (as it shouldn't, although a ping-based restriction would've been 1000 times better and smarter for everybody, but that actually required a bit of thought so tough luck), except Team B strikes again so we have retarded "region lock" that means next to nothing, but Team B thought it wasn't important enough to advertise what that option actually does

And yes, it's fast enough to require prediction (katana swing or GRS cast is what, 300-400ms and requires aprox 200ms to even be represented on the opponent PC even with good latency, then another 200 for your client to be aware of any counter executed). When you're forced to use a lot of prediction all hell breaks loose and you just start trading a shit situation for another.

unless you're playing chess or hearts, pretty much every friggin multi game with some PvP is "fast enough" to require some sort of prediction. if GRS is "fast" what are bullets in non-hitscan shooters?

But w/e, thump your chest and demand justice, not like from gives 2 fucks...

they obviously don't give 2 fucks about anything so w/e. be a good fanboy and go suck their dick in silence and be sure to buy all the DLCs without a season pass

 

[DragoFireheart]

unless you're a cum-guzzling fanboy,.

Cum Souls 2: Prepare to Guzzle

nom nom nom gimme that b team cum