From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[Blaine]

Because AGI scales to the lower of END and ADP, and 99-100 is the iframes sweet spot. Thankfully, the insanity of trying iframes into not one but TWO STATS wasn't in DS1, and didn't carry over into DS3.

I absolutely agree though that qualifying into a few good upgraded strike and pierce weapons is important, because of bosses and so on that are vulnerable to usually literally anything but slash.

 

[Mozg]

Your math is a bit off. I've finished off The Rotten and have probably been fucking around way too much (paths opened and mostly walked, but then I often turned back to explore more elsewhere), so my current SL is 85. By the time I finish off the other three parts of the Quadforce, I'll likely be around level 90. If I respec right now, I'll be able to run this:

"Basic normal build" would be off a... warrior? knight? I can't remember which class is which, but they'd have like 4 starting attunement and very low starting int/wis. The wizard starting class is already like 20 levels behind on a caveman build.

Anyway, that looks fine. There's a free magic mace somewhere that you'll find.

 

[Multidirectional]

Because AGI scales to the lower of END and ADP, and 99-100 is the iframes sweet spot.

It's ATT and ADP. And I always go for 105, with all my characters, early game. See no reason not to, considering how much more stamina efficient dodging is compared to blocking. Later for the rest of the stats as Fire Longsword is really all I need to get through early and even mid game. I usually pump the shit out of ADP at first and eventually after I raise my ATT enough I reallocate points with Soul Vessel.
I gotta admit I still haven't done a single proper mage that I could enjoy in Souls games, I'm having way more fun with melee with pyromancy/ranged as backup options. Any time I try to start a proper mage I end up not going through with it and respeccing or making a new character.

 

[Hyperion]

SL 87 Sorcerer

Vigor: 20
Endurance: 10
Vitality: 10
Attunement: 30
Strength: 12
Dexterity: 7
Adaptability: 17
Intelligence: 30
Faith: 4

You have enough weight to wear a Magic Mace, Royal Kite Shield, and Sorcerer Staff in your hands.

Armor: Alonne Knight Helm, Alonne Knight Chest, Alva Gloves, Alonne Knight Leggings. 74 poise. 850 Physical Defense. This number might be assuming fully upgraded armor pieces, I'm not sure.

Rings: Royal Soldier's, Ring of Steel Protection. You might have to put on a lighter pair of gloves or something to accommodate 2 more rings, but you'll be getting the Second Dragon Ring soon enough to make up for it.

6 Spell Slots. 100 Agility. 100% Phys Block shield. Str / Int scaling Strike weapon, which DESTROYS the entire first half of the game, plus most of Drangleic Castle. What more do you need?

Edit: Oh and you look fucking badass in almost full Alonne Knight gear.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Because AGI scales to the lower of END and ADP, and 99-100 is the iframes sweet spot. Thankfully, the insanity of trying iframes into not one but TWO STATS wasn't in DS1, and didn't carry over into DS3.

I absolutely agree though that qualifying into a few good upgraded strike and pierce weapons is important, because of bosses and so on that are vulnerable to usually literally anything but slash.

Actually AGI only scales with ADP. Natural Poise scales with both End and ADP.
Have you been playing with >20 ADP this whole time? That may have been part of your problem; you should have END and ADP to at least 20, which is their soft caps.
I'm currently running 24 adp, and that gives me about 100 AGI. I can dodge most attacks quite reliably.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Because AGI scales to the lower of END and ADP, and 99-100 is the iframes sweet spot.

It's ATT and ADP.

Are you sure? Because my AGI goes up if I just put points in to ADP. Though only a point every 1-2 levels now because of the soft cap.

 

[Blaine]

Mozg Yeah, I have that magic mace. It just needs to be upgraded.

It's ATT and ADP. And I always go for 105, with all my characters, early game. See no reason not to, considering how much more stamina efficient dodging is compared to blocking.

You're right. There was some weird misinformation on one of the stat calculator Wiki pages; probably they accidentally swapped Poise with Agility.

And yes, the fundamental thing I've discovered is that rolling is king and trumps everything else, barring extremely high VIG and Defense. I guess I knew that coming into DS2, but I didn't realize right away that iframes were tied to stats.

SL 87 Sorcerer

Vigor: 20
Endurance: 10
Vitality: 10
Attunement: 30
Strength: 12
Dexterity: 7
Adaptability: 17
Intelligence: 30
Faith: 4

You have enough weight to wear a Magic Mace, Royal Kite Shield, and Sorcerer Staff in your hands.

Armor: Alonne Knight Helm, Alonne Knight Chest, Alva Gloves, Alonne Knight Leggings. 74 poise. 850 Physical Defense. This number might be assuming fully upgraded armor pieces, I'm not sure.

Rings: Royal Soldier's, Ring of Steel Protection. You might have to put on a lighter pair of gloves or something to accommodate 2 more rings, but you'll be getting the Second Dragon Ring soon enough to make up for it.

6 Spell Slots. 100 Agility. 100% Phys Block shield. Str / Int scaling Strike weapon, which DESTROYS the entire first half of the game, plus most of Drangleic Castle. What more do you need?

Edit: Oh and you look fucking badass in almost full Alonne Knight gear.

I have all that stuff from drops, minus the gloves. Upgrading it will require farming the puddle hand demons with Covenant of Champions active while wearing my item find gear, because I've already spent the vast majority of my upgrade materials on other things.

Have you been playing with >20 ADP this whole time? That may have been part of your problem; you should have END and ADP to at least 20, which is their soft caps.
I'm currently running 24 adp, and that gives me about 100 AGI. I can dodge most attacks quite reliably.

That requires a substantially lower investment in Sorcery-related stats though, so my original point, which still stands, is why bother with Sorcerer at all (until, say, SL 100+ with all the good shit)? The damage truly is shit without high INT.

Are you sure? Because my AGI goes up if I just put points in to ADP. Though only a point every 1-2 levels now because of the soft cap.

He doesn't mean it works the same way, he's just correcting the wrong part. AGI scales directly with both ADP and ATN, while Poise is the lower of ADP and END.

 

[Multidirectional]

Are you sure? Because my AGI goes up if I just put points in to ADP. Though only a point every 1-2 levels now because of the soft cap.

ATT influences AGI to a much lesser extent than ADP. My initial ADP is usually around 32, before I raise enough ATT for reallocating points so I could still have that 105 AGI.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

You don't have to level up armor to the max. I just get by leveling it up to +6. Chunks are absurdly hard to acquire, unless you farm a bunch or kill the final boss.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Are you sure? Because my AGI goes up if I just put points in to ADP. Though only a point every 1-2 levels now because of the soft cap.

ATT influences AGI to a much lesser extent than ADP. My initial ADP is usually around 32, before I raise enough ATT for reallocating points so I could still have that 105 AGI.

Huh, I did not know that. That's a curious interaction.

 

[Mozg]

And yes, the fundamental thing I've discovered is that rolling is king and trumps everything else, barring extremely high VIG and Defense. I guess I knew that coming into DS2, but I didn't realize right away that iframes were tied to stats.

The ultimate defense is stepping out of the way, not rolling. Rolls in DS2 are extremely expensive in terms of endurance. Not learning that until the DLCs is the leading cause of fighting Fume Knight for 5 hours.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

While possible, its also risky, because some attacks track like a motherfucker.
I swear I've seen some enemies pivot in pace to strike me with one of their big dumb overheads. You don't even see their feet move, they just snap to you.
But yeah, one can beat Fume Knight without rolling. Its hard, but doable, because he has some weird hitboxes where his swings just go right over you.

 

[Gentle Player]

This is how I would have a sorcerer at level 100:

Vigor: 15
Endurance: 15
Vitality: 5
Attunement: 21
Strength: 18
Dexterity: 18
Adaptability: 8
Intelligence: 50
Faith: 5

Agility is crucial for pure melee classes, but I don't find it nearly as important for casters at this stage in the game. Certainly when it comes to the DLC areas you'll want at least 105 AGI though, and I would obtain the bulk of that by getting to 50 ATT before working on ADP. On the other hand, getting to 50 INT ASAP is very much worth your while - at least in the SotFS version, where the ultimate staff (which requires 50 INT) is found fairly early, as opposed to near the end like in vanilla.

The 18 STR and DEX can be ignored; I personally like to be able to wield the Moonlight Sword as soon as I can, using an ascetic straight away after killing Freja. I don't suppose this is actually optimal, as for that point in the game a lighter magic-infused weapon with fewer requirements would probably serve well, but I just like to do it for the sake of it. Enough STR to equip a 100% Phys block shield is recommended though, to make up for the poor AGI.

From here on I would get ATT to 50 and VIG and END both to 20. Then I would work on ADP until I had 110 AGI. Then Vig to 50. By that point I'd probably have cleared all content and be ready for NG+, if not there already.

 

[Mozg]

Y'all are nuts, I get the minimum stats for a decent weapon then 20/20 vig/end in all souls games on any build.

 

[Blaine]

The ultimate defense is stepping out of the way, not rolling. Rolls in DS2 are extremely expensive in terms of endurance. Not learning that until the DLCs is the leading cause of fighting Fume Knight for 5 hours.

Try that on The Rotten or Ruin Sentinels and see how it works out for you.

I agree that when possible, merely moving away and being prepared to move away by positioning yourself properly is helpful, but it's often not possible.

 

[Gentle Player]

Y'all are nuts, I get the minimum stats for a decent weapon then 20/20 vig/end in all souls games on any build.

That's what I'd do with a melee. A sorcerer or hexer has more leeway though. Then again, I speak as someone who knows how to get all the best caster gear and spells straight away. I wouldn't recommend it for a blind first run.

 

[Blaine]

Y'all are nuts, I get the minimum stats for a decent weapon then 20/20 vig/end in all souls games on any build.

That's what I'd do with a melee. A sorcerer or hexer has more leeway though. Then again, I speak as someone who knows how to get all the best caster gear and spells straight away. I wouldn't recommend it for a blind first run.

If you summon phantoms to tank for you, then maybe. I prefer not to summon any phantoms at all. The biggest problem as I see it is that magic doesn't do enough damage to nuke any of these bosses quickly enough to eliminate the need to perform lots of evasive maneuvers ANYWAY. If I'm performing lots of evasive maneuvers at fairly close range anyway, I figure I might as well do so with better rolls and able to take more hits.

Maybe you're right, and with the best gear and spells and min-maxed stats, you can do enough damage to justify the defensive disadvantage by way of having to perform fewer defensive actions. Guess I'll find out later.

 

[Gentle Player]

Y'all are nuts, I get the minimum stats for a decent weapon then 20/20 vig/end in all souls games on any build.

That's what I'd do with a melee. A sorcerer or hexer has more leeway though. Then again, I speak as someone who knows how to get all the best caster gear and spells straight away. I wouldn't recommend it for a blind first run.

If you summon phantoms to tank for you, then maybe. I prefer not to summon any phantoms at all. The biggest problem as I see it is that magic doesn't do enough damage to nuke any of these bosses quickly enough to eliminate the need to perform lots of evasive maneuvers ANYWAY. Maybe you're right, and with the best gear and spells and min-maxed stats, you can do enough damage to justify it.

No, this is without phantoms. I don't like to summon them either, particularly not player phantoms (mainly because I envision playing these great games long after the servers are dead, so it's a bad idea to have to rely on online components). There's only one boss in DSII which I haven't beaten without using the NPC summons, and that's Lud and Zallen.

DSIII is a different story though. My sorcerer there had to rely on NPC phantoms to tank, as bosses there are so much faster and more aggressive. It's certainly possible, but not for someone like me who isn't particularly good at action games.

 

[Blaine]

Here's an example of what I'm talking about. It's a very nice, straightforward video of someone doing the Old Iron King boss battle.



Here you have a tiny strip of land with the boss in your face, as usual. His attacks are exceptionally well telegraphed and easy to dodge, making him one of the easier bosses in the game as long as you keep your cool. The guy spams sorcery until the boss reaches the platform, and then switches to melee tactics with the magic mace. It's representative of almost every boss fight in the entire game that I've encountered, one way or another. You nuke off a minority of their health and then you're down to melee tactics again. Exceptions are Old Ornstein where you only have time to cast exactly one spell before he's in your face, but Old Ornstein can be nuked a bit while he's doing his elemental smash. Melee can use bows for this purpose, though, and the same is true for other battles in which you have some nuking opportunity.

If you try to snipe him from the door, he'll use his megabeam which OHKOs most players and is shady to dodge properly. It's safer and easier to let him try to beat on you up close.

So far I've only played two boss battles in which sorcery kiting was a significant help: Skeleton Lords and The Last Giant. In theory it's helpful against Old Smough, but he's so fat anyway that you'd truly have to be retarded to lose that battle at any range.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Old Smough? I don't know of this boss.
Do you mean Covetous Demon?

 

[sullynathan]

Dark Souls 2 has some of the shittiest boss fights on average, only rivaled by Demons Souls. It's not you Blaine, it's the game.

 

[Blaine]

Old Smough? I don't know of this boss.
Do you mean Covetous Demon?

I thought of the fat guy in Heide's Tower of Flame as Smough, mainly because I forgot what Smough looked like over the years and only remembered Ornstein. Covetous Demon was possibly the easiest fight in the game; all you have to do is walk at a fast trot in crooked circles, roll forward when he does anything, then turn around and get some hits in. Snake Spear Woman was second-easiest, since all you had to do was circle and block, then roll with a very forgiving window when she winds up spell spam.

Dark Souls 2 has some of the shittiest boss fights on average, only rivaled by Demons Souls. It's not you Blaine, it's the game.

They seem to vacillate between extremely easy and obnoxiously difficult. Just look at the telegraphing on Old Iron King. How anyone could miss a dodge on that guy is beyond me. Seeing where his flame breath will begin clearly takes a cool head and slightly fast reflexes, though.

I vanquished The Rotten and will head to Old Iron King soon, but for now I've headed back to that misty forest and explored to find more of the stuff there. I heard through the grapevine that there was a really nice caster item in the center, but I watched one of the invisible phantoms respawn in front of my face near the center and decided, yeah nah, I'm just going to continue on to the next bonfire.

Yet another lovely design decision made specifically with Sorcerers not in mind: agile phantoms who can't be targeted. I reached the next bonfire and realized that this area, too, is full of untargetable sons of bitches. Back to meleeing everything, and it's hard as shit to completely avoid their damage since you can't target them, can't see what they're doing very well, and they'll guard break instantaneously given even the slightest chance. Also, they have good Poise compared to many fodder enemies. Fortunately, it's not too bad. Usually they can stick me once or twice before I finish them off.

Area's also full of petrified locked doors that I don't quite have enough fragrant key branches to open. Chances are they have melee weapons in them anyway, which is yet another issue with playing a Sorcerer. Fully 80%+ of loot isn't a staff (or even a chime), isn't a spell, and isn't robes. It's a huge procession of melee weapons, armor, and various shields.

 

[sullynathan]

Yet another lovely design decision made specifically with Sorcerers not in mind: agile phantoms who can't be targeted. I reached the next bonfire and realized that this area, too, is full of untargetable sons of bitches. Back to meleeing everything, and it's hard as shit to completely avoid their damage since you can't target them, can't see what they're doing very well, and they'll guard break instantaneously given even the slightest chance. Also, they have good Poise compared to many fodder enemies. Fortunately, it's not too bad. Usually they can stick me once or twice before I finish them off.

area is one of the worst in the game with a shameless Quelaag clone, it's not a place I like going to when I play souls 2. Good thing is that there is a way to make the soldiers not invisible but that comes after you've passed that area.

They seem to vacillate between extremely easy and obnoxiously difficult. Just look at the telegraphing on Old Iron King. How anyone could miss a dodge on that guy is beyond me. Seeing where his flame breath will begin clearly takes a cool head and slightly fast reflexes, though.

Always hated this boss, and I was one of the few here that likes iron keep. The shit hit detection always allowed him to hit me through walls and his stupid fire attack always does so. Just lazy all around, Smelter demon should have been the only boss in this area.

 

[praetor]

Yet another lovely design decision made specifically with Sorcerers not in mind: agile phantoms who can't be targeted. I reached the next bonfire and realized that this area, too, is full of untargetable sons of bitches. Back to meleeing everything, and it's hard as shit to completely avoid their damage since you can't target them, can't see what they're doing very well, and they'll guard break instantaneously given even the slightest chance. Also, they have good Poise compared to many fodder enemies. Fortunately, it's not too bad. Usually they can stick me once or twice before I finish them off.

area is one of the worst in the game with a shameless Quelaag clone, it's not a place I like going to when I play souls 2. Good thing is that there is a way to make the soldiers not invisible but that comes after you've passed that area.

how the flying fuck is she a Quelaag clone? because she's half-woman half-insect, despite playing completely different? it's as stupid as saying Sinh (or Midir or Kalameet) is a Dragon God clone because they're both dragons

 

[Blaine]

He has a point. "Insectaur" is a pretty unusual and highly specific thingamajig. In my whole life, I can remember seeing one in the commercials for those terrible Scorpion King movies, the drow goddess Lolth in Dungeons & Dragons, and also Quelaag in the first Dark Souls.

At this point, Dark Souls is the 50% (actually 60% if you count the husband) majority shareholder of insectaurs that I'm aware of, unlike dragons which are in practically everything fantasy-themed anyway and indeed are all variations on the theme of ancient dragon myths.

At least insectaurs are unusual, so in that sense they really deserve some credit.