From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[cvv]

Can anyone recommend a good med/heavy shield & armour I can get fairly early in the game

You'll look for the best set with the best defenses, you'll keep upgrading it so it has +8 this and +2,45 that and at the end of all that journey you'll realize all those veterans calling the game Fashion Souls have been right. You'll know the truth and the truth will set you free. You'll throw on the Desert Sorcerer Set with the butthole helmet and with a diabolic laugh you'll run forward like a madman, swinging your sword, not a care in the world.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

TLDR, Armor sucks in DS2, especially in high level play. You might as well go naked.
Save your materials on a nice weapon.

One change that I don't really like is how dodging solves everything. It was pretty bad in DS1 as well, but at least you had the option of going tank and just wearing heavy armor and a shield.

In DS2 it doesn't feel like you can do that. I appreciate that they tried balancing rolling by requiring you to put points into making it good, but at the same time they designed some bosses such that if you try to block their attacks, they take all of your stamina, so you might as well just roll.

I do acknowledge that shields were a little too good in DS1, but you don't fix it by not doing anything with it, then nerfing it, then making it completely irrelevant.

 

[Blaine]

This is the objectively best equipment setup in the game.

Did you know that you can two-hand a pair of binoculars in addition to dual-wielding? Great if you need to spot enemies from extra-far away, and after all, knowing is half the battle.

The other half is killing, but that's why you run around poisoning everything.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

It will also kill your npcs if you wear it near them, so I'm not a fan of that set up.
I mean, its good, but I'd rather not inadvertently murder my NPCS.

 

[Blaine]

Your NPCs are alive?

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I generally don't kill NPCs, unless their death is required for very specific purposes.
Like that Undead Merchant guy in Undead Burg. Killing him gives you an early Uchi, which is good if you are trying to make a samurai build.
Well, killing him after buying all the important stuff, anyway.

 

[sullynathan]

Can someone explain why so many DS fans seem to hate this game? I'm playing it right now and It's literally more of the same except at least now monsters run at you when you shoot them with a bow and don't fall of cliffs and bosses take more than a couple of sword combos to kill.

lots of boring levels and boring bosses and some changes in controls. I didn't know that the input lag in this game is a glitch, but I have no drive to continue my NG+ playthrough.

 

[Blaine]

Also, DS1 didn't have anywhere near the same level of cheap, bullshit gank scenarios, and I remember the Taurus Demon well.

Let me give you an example. In Dragon Aerie, which I'm currently farming, there's a dragon nest in which a belly blaster is standing upon a distant hill. You can't shoot it while the nearby sleeping dragon is alive, because the dragon's hitbox is between it and you. Attempting to shoot it from any non-aggro angle will hit and wake the dragon instead of hitting the belly blaster, who will remain protected by the dragon's body as the dragon stands and unfurls it wings.

There are two more belly blasters on a high hill right behind you, at an extreme angle that requires you to walk toward the center of the nest to see and shoot them. If you do that, though, then at least one of the crystal lizards (farming them is why you're there) will scamper away. Chasing that first lizard immediately will scare other nearby crystal lizards away; and if you manage to kill the lizard without waking the dragon, this will trigger the gank squad of belly blasters to sprint down their hills towards you from two different directions.

By the way, the belly blaster up on the far hill will continue to be protected by the dragon's hitbox until it clips out of the dragon's wing feet away from you, sprinting at you full-speed.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to kill all of the crystal lizards in Dragon Aerie in a single run, period. You can't even do it suicidally; some of the lizards WILL escape. It's physically impossible to get them all. You have to run through at least twice, and most probably three times unless you're very good and very lucky, because the ~3 lizards per dragon are widely spaced and chasing one will typically alert at least one of the others. Furthermore the type of weapons you need to defeat belly blasters efficiently and quickly are often different than the ones you'll use to kill crystal lizards.

This is not challenging, and it's not clever. It's just tedious, terrible design. I can one-hit the lizards with a running great hammer R2, sweep 2-3 of the belly blasters at a stretch with a greatsword, and easily outmaneuver and kill the dragons without taking a scratch... but I cannot do all three simultaneously while getting every lizard, and probably just one to start, if I'm lucky.

The Japanese fuckfaces at From carefully designed the level just this way on purpose. It's infuriating. I guarantee you that no video exists of any solo person getting all lizards in one go, SotFS edition (I suppose co-op AoE spell and weapon spam could do it).

 

[Blaine]

If this ain't the perfect real-life representation of Dark Souls, then I don't know what is.

 

[Suicidal]

Can someone explain why so many DS fans seem to hate this game? I'm playing it right now and It's literally more of the same except at least now monsters run at you when you shoot them with a bow and don't fall of cliffs and bosses take more than a couple of sword combos to kill.

In terms of base mechanics DS2 is certainly superior to DS1, however where it falters is the world design (highly inconsistant and tends to feel like a bunch of concepts mashed together than a coherent area that makes since), weaker lore (again, fairly inconsistent and doesn't really connect to the previous souls series. Any connection comes across more as an after thought than something they put thought into), and of course, the sheer amount of tedious bullshit that passes for difficulty (let's see, you have the exploding mummies who one shot you that of course is next to a merchant, the chests you can't get to without dying in Iron Keep, the fuck your equipment tunnel in Shrine of Amana, the long ass bridge in the throne of want that of course you have to wait for that fucking door to open to get to)

Really, the only areas that came across as bullshit in DS1 was New Londo and Lost Izalith, and one of those was due to them running out of time and ideas. In DS2, who come across stuff like that earlier and more often, which means they started running of ideas earlier in development.

Don't get me wrong, its not a bad game and I do like some of the changes, but I totally understand why people are disappointed with it.

But the exploding mummies in the area with the merchant don't aggro unless you attack first...

I understand your point about interconnected levels and yes it was pretty cool how in DS 1 there were some areas you could access from 3-4 other areas, however for me it's a very minor feature that I don't think is worth pelting the sequel with shit over.

Can someone explain why so many DS fans seem to hate this game? I'm playing it right now and It's literally more of the same except at least now monsters run at you when you shoot them with a bow and don't fall of cliffs and bosses take more than a couple of sword combos to kill.

lots of boring levels and boring bosses and some changes in controls. I didn't know that the input lag in this game is a glitch, but I have no drive to continue my NG+ playthrough.

Now this is something I don't get. DS1 also had a lot of shit bosses. Most bosses in DS1 either have incredibly slow telegraphed attacks that are too easy to dodge or they just die too quickly - some bosses I could just run up to and mash light attack without even needing to dodge and I would kill them with about 20-30% hp left for myself. At least the bosses in DS2 have enough HP to survive 2 full stamina bars of attacks. At least they actually aim their attacks at you and not at the place you were standing at a few seconds ago.

For example - DS1 has the gargoyle bosses. I beat them by dodging the first gargoyle's initial attack and then ran up close and mashed LMB. It had very little hp, so by the time the second gargoyle landed the first one was already dead. I ate a few attacks while killing it, but then just drank a potion and was fine. DS2 has a boss consisting of 5 gargoyles. Not only do they have more different attacks, but you also start the fight with two of them active and 3 in waiting. If you don't focus them down 1 by 1 you can end up fighting all 5 at the same time. Also you can't just run up to them and mash attack because the others will keep attacking you from the flank.

The smith demon in the lava castle was the only boss in the entire series so far (not counting the final DLC boss of DS1 where you have to equip a special item to block his spells) I had to change my equipment in order to beat because in his final form he did too much damage to me through my shield, so I had get a shield with better fire resist, use other fire resist buffs and constantly eat regeneration gems in his last form.

 

[Blaine]

But the exploding mummies in the area with the merchant don't aggro unless you attack first...

Not in SotFS they don't, but previously they did.

https://youtu.be/Ueb2nZfi16I?t=80

Yes, the developers thought it was a grand idea to put five of the most obnoxious enemies in the game next to a bonfire and an important NPC.

 

[Suicidal]

But the exploding mummies in the area with the merchant don't aggro unless you attack first...

Not in SotFS they don't, but previously they did.

https://youtu.be/Ueb2nZfi16I?t=80

Yes, the developers thought it was a grand idea to put five of the most obnoxious enemies in the game next to a bonfire and an important NPC.

That is pretty dumb, yes. Especially considering that they probably can kill the merchant with their aoe farts while you fight.

Maybe the reason everyone seems so butthurt about DS2 is because they played DS2 and I'm playing SotFS?

 

[Blaine]

Let's be real: There are poor design decisions in every Souls title. Remember, From Software is the company who also develops the Armored Core franchise, and there are a LOT of shit games in that series.

After you've played an anal rape simulator for 150+ hours, you're bound to get butthurt about every perceived flaw. It's just important not to forget the good times.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

But the exploding mummies in the area with the merchant don't aggro unless you attack first...

Not in SotFS they don't, but previously they did.

https://youtu.be/Ueb2nZfi16I?t=80

Yes, the developers thought it was a grand idea to put five of the most obnoxious enemies in the game next to a bonfire and an important NPC.

Oh they don't? Huh, that's a nice change.
Yeah, in the original they bum rush you as soon as they notice you are there.

 

[sullynathan]

Now this is something I don't get. DS1 also had a lot of shit bosses. Most bosses in DS1 either have incredibly slow telegraphed attacks that are too easy to dodge or they just die too quickly - some bosses I could just run up to and mash light attack without even needing to dodge and I would kill them with about 20-30% hp left for myself. At least the bosses in DS2 have enough HP to survive 2 full stamina bars of attacks. At least they actually aim their attacks at you and not at the place you were standing at a few seconds ago.

For example - DS1 has the gargoyle bosses. I beat them by dodging the first gargoyle's initial attack and then ran up close and mashed LMB. It had very little hp, so by the time the second gargoyle landed the first one was already dead. I ate a few attacks while killing it, but then just drank a potion and was fine. DS2 has a boss consisting of 5 gargoyles. Not only do they have more different attacks, but you also start the fight with two of them active and 3 in waiting. If you don't focus them down 1 by 1 you can end up fighting all 5 at the same time. Also you can't just run up to them and mash attack because the others will keep attacking you from the flank.

The smith demon in the lava castle was the only boss in the entire series so far (not counting the final DLC boss of DS1 where you have to equip a special item to block his spells) I had to change my equipment in order to beat because in his final form he did too much damage to me through my shield, so I had get a shield with better fire resist, use other fire resist buffs and constantly eat regeneration gems in his last form.

All in all DS2 with its DLC has an equal number of good bosses as Dark Souls but the base game of DS2 doesn't have standout bosses outside of two. The Smelter demon is one of the best in the series, I also had to change how I played for him. Summons had a negative effect because they died quickly and I had to learn to roll more.

The gargoyles are a great intro boss for Dark Souls.

 

[Blaine]

I haven't reached Fume Knight yet, but from what I've seen he may be the overall best-designed boss in the series (keeping in mind I've only fought one DS3 boss so far). He doesn't rely on a gank squad buddy, gimmicks, minions, or spam—just a diverse, cadenced move set that he can mix up in unpredictable ways. He's also relentless and it's difficult to get any breathing room.

Of course, that relentlessness alongside the game's mechanics and the DLC's resistance setup pretty much obviates the point of using any build other than agile melee. You can throw bows, spells, heavy armor, shields, slash and thrust weapons, and slow weapons in the trash. This is why the guy who beat Fume Knight NG+7 in just under 7 minutes used a two-hand stance Homunculus Mace (highest 1H-native strike damage, and faster than any 2H-native strike weapon), Gold Pine Resin (Fume Knight is still quite resistant to it, but it's his lowest resist and it's free damage), probably a Flynn's Ring and Ring of Blades +2 alongside Chloranthy +2, and no armor whatsoever.

I don't need to revisit the video to remember any of that. It's obvious because it's just inevitable given the game mechanics and the Fume Knight's repertoire. When something that extreme is the optimal way to fight one of the best-designed bosses in the game, you've as good as admitted that the rest of your design is pretty much just for show, so that you can pretend it's an RPG and not a pure third-person action game with a nice medieval theme.

I did find it strange that he used the Throne Watcher's Shield instead of a stamina regen shield.

 

[cvv]

All in all DS2 with its DLC has an equal number of good bosses as Dark Souls but the base game of DS2 doesn't have standout bosses outside of two.

If you're one of the e-peening, annoying tryhards who always yap the only good boss fight is the Artorias archetype fight (one-on-one against a fast humanoid opponent, essentially the Eric Bana vs. Brad Pitt in Troy type of brawl) then yes, all the bosses in DS2 vanilla are shitty. Hurr durr.

But where tryhard autists see "gimmick" I see variety and fun and innovation. I like bosses like Skeleton Lords or Executioner's Chariot. I like puzzle bosses and "gimmick" bosses and bosses that are strange and different and weird. In DS3 I got so fucking fed up with the Artorias-type bosses I can't even. Always a fast jumping humanoid, always two phases, always the same fucking shit. Gael, the last boss of the Souls games, was fucking symbolic - same dumb shit we've seen and played a hundred times before, only this time extra tedious with thrice as much HP. Jesus fucking Christ.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I liked the Skeleton Lords as well, actually. It was easy, but it was an interesting design and take on the Ads concept, in that instead of butt rushing you with multiple enemies from the very beginning, or even summoning in dudes mid fight, you have a Russian Doll like case where killing one of the big guys will spawn little guys, so you have to pick your targets carefully and kill them one at a time so as to not get overwhelmed.

 

[Jasede]

I didn't mind the chariot so much; the problem with Skeleton Lords is just that it's so incredibly easy and they have no way to punish you for kiting. You can run around the arena indefinitely and they can never touch you.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I didn't mind the chariot so much; the problem with Skeleton Lords is just that it's so incredibly easy and they have no way to punish you for kiting. You can run around the arena indefinitely and they can never touch you.

That's how ads fights should be though. There should be a way to kite them and break up their formation with obstacles, so you still have a chance to attack.
Otherwise you have a case like the Elana fight, where it boils down to running away from that asshole with the bell for 10 minutes, with hardly any chance to hit Elana.

DS1 is better designed in that regards, as the ad fight arenas all have an obstacles, allowing you some breathing room.

 

[sullynathan]

If you're one of the e-peening, annoying tryhards who always yap the only good boss fight is the Artorias archetype fight (one-on-one against a fast humanoid opponent, essentially the Eric Bana vs. Brad Pitt in Troy type of brawl) then yes, all the bosses in DS2 vanilla are shitty. Hurr durr.

But where tryhard autists see "gimmick" I see variety and fun and innovation. I like bosses like Skeleton Lords or Executioner's Chariot. I like puzzle bosses and "gimmick" bosses and bosses that are strange and different and weird. In DS3 I got so fucking fed up with the Artorias-type bosses I can't even. Always a fast jumping humanoid, always two phases, always the same fucking shit. Gael, the last boss of the Souls games, was fucking symbolic - same dumb shit we've seen and played a hundred times before, only this time extra tedious with thrice as much HP. Jesus fucking Christ.

Not at all. I remember saying that the witches of henwick and Nicholas Micolash were good bosses and some of the Codexers here thought I was strange.

Souls 2 just had too many shit bosses in the base game.
The only good gimmick boss in that game was the chariot horse.

haven't reached Fume Knight yet, but from what I've seen he may be the overall best-designed boss in the series (keeping in mind I've only fought one DS3 boss so far). He doesn't rely on a gank squad buddy, gimmicks, minions, or spam—just a diverse, cadenced move set that he can mix up in unpredictable ways. He's also relentless and it's difficult to get any breathing room.

Fume knight does have a gimmick and it's the health statutes outside his boss room. He's still one of the best and most difficult boss in the series for what reasons you've said.

 

[Blaine]

If you're one of the e-peening, annoying tryhards who always yap the only good boss fight is the Artorias archetype fight (one-on-one against a fast humanoid opponent, essentially the Eric Bana vs. Brad Pitt in Troy type of brawl) then yes, all the bosses in DS2 vanilla are shitty. Hurr durr.

Fast humanoid opponents with varied movesets do tend to be the most challenging bosses who require the most player skill, though. It's just the way the Souls games are designed.

That's not everyone's priority or cup of tea, in much the same way PvP isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it's an objective fact.

But where tryhard autists see "gimmick" I see variety and fun and innovation. I like bosses like Skeleton Lords or Executioner's Chariot. I like puzzle bosses and "gimmick" bosses and bosses that are strange and different and weird. In DS3 I got so fucking fed up with the Artorias-type bosses I can't even. Always a fast jumping humanoid, always two phases, always the same fucking shit. Gael, the last boss of the Souls games, was fucking symbolic - same dumb shit we've seen and played a hundred times before, only this time extra tedious with thrice as much HP. Jesus fucking Christ.

I suppose by the time DS3 rolled around (heh) they finally acknowledged that melee rolling and dodging is the source of most of the challenge in the Souls series. Too bad they spammed agile humanoid duels instead of finding ways to make other types of boss fights more challenging.

 

[cvv]

Fast humanoid opponents with varied movesets do tend to be the most challenging bosses who require the most player skill, though. It's just the way the Souls games are designed.

Oh I don't dispute that in the slightest. Artorias-type bosses are most hyped by the most hardcore DS players who want the biggest challenge, understandably so.

I'm just saying the challenge based on dexterity and reactions shouldn't be the only thing that matters. There's also a puzzle-type challenge (Chariot, Micolash). Plus who said a boss must be challenging at all? I've always liked the Dragon God from DeS - sure, retardedly easy, but it's just such a great design and setting and wow factor, especially the first time around.

Example - the most hated boss ever is Bed of Chaos and for me it's bad too but not because of the concept itself. With a few adjustments it could've been a very fun and original boss.

 

[sullynathan]

I hated the dragon God boss especially because I'm not sure how to block or negate his fire attack

 

[Hyperion]

Micolash didn't suck because of the fight. Micolash sucked because he couldn't shut the fuck up.

By the 4th "Grant us eyes, GRANT US EYEEEEEEES" I wanted to gouge his out with a rusty spoon. And the fight lasted long enough the first time you hear it 40 times instead of 4. First and only time I ever muted my TV playing a Souls game.