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From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

cvv

Arcane
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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Powerstancing big hitters is a lot of fun but I've always preferred two-handing or target-shielding for parries.

Forlorn spawn all over the game, if you kill all of them (or most?) Straid will sell you some of their crap. Watch out for the scythe ones, they can easily wreck your arsehole with a single combo.
 

Arnust

Savant
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Spain
Iron Keep is annoying as fuck. Why did they give the knights such long aggro range? I have to keep running to the foyer to kill them in peace before I get killed by the snipers and their absurdly long range.
Where do Forlorn spawn? I died to one in the Iron Keep and I haven't seen it again. Is it once per playthrough?
It's not as much that they have a big aggro range as it is that they've got some kind of collective aggro once you get past a certain point (this is actually not rare, just this is with a whole area. Another example for instance are the giant knights in the center of Heide), and the archers will shoot you as soon as they get LoS. It's one of the few cases in SOTFS wgen you could argue it was changed for worse, or at least more annoying. In the other hand, their drops are great and they drop souls like they're coming back from the shop.

Forlorn seem to spawn completely arbitrarily and follow normal invader rules, which means that the only factor in keeping them away is non online areas and the burned effigy buff. As for the drops, every one you kill will unlock a new piece of their gear to buy on Straid, IIRC it was armor pieces first, then the weapons. The latter kind of suck but the former is pretty awesome looking.
 
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Orma

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Kraków
Torment: Tides of Numenera
I've been invading for months now, probably really close to getting ring of thorns +2.

Killing pretty much anyone I invade, as long as they don't ALT-F4 instantly. Except chinese gankers i guess, really difficult to fight 3-4 laggers at once. :lol:
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
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Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,805
Where the fuck did :vivelefrance: go, it'd have been perfect
Many of the Codex's stock images, along with the Trump button ratings, disappeared on May 9, the Day the Codex Died. :argh:

Codex traffic has increased thanks to MCA ranting about Feargus big cock and at that point the local administration decided to clean up their act by deleting Trump buttons (too far right they said).

This is how Bethesda implements C&C.

Edit: Sorry, I'm drunk.
 

Akratus

Self-loathing fascist drunken misogynist asshole
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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Ive only played SotfS and the performance is very solid.

Where the fuck did :vivelefrance: go, it'd have been perfect
Many of the Codex's stock images, along with the Trump button ratings, disappeared on May 9, the Day the Codex Died. :argh:

Codex traffic has increased thanks to MCA ranting about Feargus big cock and at that point the local administration decided to clean up their act by deleting Trump buttons (too far right they said).

This is how Bethesda implements C&C.

Edit: Sorry, I'm drunk.
And yet this stays:
:discohitler::mhd::dgaider::fallout3::shitandpiss::takemyjewgold::keepmyjewgold::flamesaw:

Edit:
A6DA1274321DECE1B79DCF8977E0DFB585C5CA2C
Defeated the looking glass knight through my long and skillfull study of the blade *tips fedora*
 
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CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
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Dec 26, 2014
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On the internet, writing shit posts.
eh, looking glass isn't that hard. Even with his summons he's not that tough, as there are terrain features you can use to separate them.
Unlike the Elana fight, which is fucking bullshit. I hate that fight. Boring boss, boring arena, boring mechanics. Oh, a big empty square room and a boss with instant death mines and summons. How fun /s
 

Beggar

Cipher
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Dec 7, 2014
Messages
738
eh, looking glass isn't that hard. Even with his summons he's not that tough, as there are terrain features you can use to separate them.
Unlike the Elana fight, which is fucking bullshit. I hate that fight. Boring boss, boring arena, boring mechanics. Oh, a big empty square room and a boss with instant death mines and summons. How fun /s

DS2 is terrible itself. Mind blowing how can anyone coming from DS1 like it
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
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Messages
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Eh, I wouldn't say terrible. Just not as good it could have been.
It really should have been its own thing, but Namco wanted a Dark Souls sequel, and they wanted it to be SOOOOOO HAAAARD because that's what the fanbase kept going on about Dark Souls 1. Even though it wasn't actually hard, it just didn't hold your hand in a time when console games held your hand.

Which is why you get some tedious bullshit in some areas of DS2.

What's funny is that God Hand also didn't fuck around with you either, but it didn't catch on because it wasn't as pretty as Dark Souls, it was goofy as hell and IGN were a bunch of pussies who couldn't take getting spanked by a video game.
 
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Joined
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Messages
15,263
Gonna quote myself for posterity here so it isn't lost in the What Game are you Wasting Time on? thread:

Been playing Dark Souls 2 recently. Had it since release but was a bit disappointed in some of the stuff near the beginning and dropped it. Finished it Monday with a pure Longsword build (no shield), in the middle of a pure sorcery build now. Thoughts:

- The adaptability/I-frame thing is bullshit of the highest degree. Hitting your I-frames properly to dodge through shit is *the* essential skill of Dark Souls (assuming you aren't a shield coward), having the timing window vary is the dumbest idea ever. It'd be like playing a Guitar Hero game with a variable timing window for hitting notes, it just doesn't work. You need consistency to develop a reaction to things. On top of that you start with the window so insanely short that the game just makes you feel like you are complete shit at Souls games even if you are literally doing everything properly. Tons of attacks (as far as I can tell) are flat out unavoidable without a longer I-Frame window. Trying to dodge under Pursuer's strikes or through the big troll-like monsters in the first area with minimum agility is completely suicidal, which is a problem when that's what you are supposed to be doing to fight them. Once you dump all of your initial 20 levels or so into adaptability or attunement it's fine, before then it's shit (hope you read the wiki to figure out that you needed to do this to get more I-Frames). Probably a big part of what pissed me off initially and led to me dropping it, along with the control lag.
- Linear as fuck areas with no interleaving. At any time there's only 2 or 3 possible areas to visit, then when you finish all available paths 2 or 3 new areas open up.
- Overall level design is just poor and too video-gamey. Almost nothing feels like a real previously lived-in area like in DaS or especially DeS. The first castle was alright but the 2nd and end game one was just a linear corridor to the end.
- Way too many randomly locked doors that you have to backtrack too later, with keys to them found half a game away. Worse yet, there's virtually no indication of what key goes where, so I hope you're writing down all those randomly locked doors on a notepad somewhere and willing to check them all when you find something. I bet this was an attempt to alleviate the feeling of linearity but it just makes the game insufferable to play without checking the wiki to figure out what goes where. The worst being the fucking Iron Key, which is found 3/4ths of the way through the game and has nothing to indicate that it opens a door right next to the first boss you fought.
- Way more NPCs/dialog/story time in DaS2 than DaS1, yet I understood how the story was going far less. DaS1 you could really feel the climax of the game. DaS2 I didn't even know I was fighting the final boss until she died and the ending selection option appeared. I'm not actually sure what lets you progress, as far as I can tell it's kill some unspecified number of bosses at the end of 4 linear paths (game implied I needed all 4, but IIRC I had only 3 and the NPC just said "lol wutever you can go but you'll be killed"), then you bum around in the castle and go down another linear path till you reach the end, then you bum around in the first area activating trees to fight in other people's memories, one of which gives you a boss fight that gives you a soul that lets you finish the game in aforementioned castle's basement. I have no idea what any of this was for, the game is literally just doors that say "you must fuck around till you find the macguffin that lets you pass".
- Game has way too many souls to find. I ended at level 171 and I could have leveled way higher had I consumed all the boss souls in my inventory. This is enough to soft-cap literally everything I needed with points to spare. That's Vigor, Endurance, Vitality, Strength, Dexterity, and Adaptibility all softcapped and I didn't know what to do with about 15 points left over since I was trying to play a no-casting build. This really ruins variety if you aren't roleplaying a very narrow class. Had I not maxed both Str and Dex I could have easily been a fully-powered caster in addition to a maxed warrior by the end game. And I didn't even do the DLC areas, they must push you over level 200.
- Fragrant Branches of Yore are BULLSHIT AS HELL. Yes, lets make limited-use items to unpetrify people that block areas, guard vital equipment, or even just have vital items on them with no hint to this (fairly important merchant is hidden behind a door whose key is found off a completely random statue). No hint of which ones are important or which ones are worthless, so go use a guide. Did I mention there is a limited number in the entire game? This is not something you can farm or buy more of, run out and you lose access to content until NG+.
- Lots of important things are hidden in very specific spots, some of them even in NG+. Stuff like spell selection or certain items don't show up at all until you've basically finished the game. Wouldn't be a problem if the game was far less linear, or if it was overall shorter with a lower level limit, but it looks like some builds will basically need to hit level 100ish before they become useful.
- Soul Memory is really awful for PvP and I can't understand what it tried to accomplish. Stop people from level squatting while getting +15 weapons to destroy newbs? But you can still do since weapons don't require much souls to level and there's a ring to stop you from gaining more souls. In the end it just punishes you for losing your souls or spending them on equipment since you end up being thrown in a higher PvP bracket.

+ M&K controls are surprisingly good once you turn off the double click crap and remap a few things. Aside from XBOX button prompts it feels like a native 3rd person PC game. Stuff like the camera control and turning radius are way better (i.e. instant response) than most 3rd person shooters I've played. It's very smooth and completely playable without lockon in melee. Only issue I've noticed is that if you really, really spam mouse clicks fast, mashing to get attacks out as fast as possible, it sometimes won't register at all. But the game buffers input a bit so there's no reason to do this.
+ Like the enhanced difficulty covenant option.
+ Like the far more limited estus flasks. Especially in the beginning, I was at 1 or 2 uses per area for a long, long time. Made it all feel very tense. Good way to reward exploration too.
+ Pursuer mini-boss popping up and the much more significant number of AI invaders is cool.
+ Use of darkness and torches in a few areas is good.
+ Quicker durability loss but durability restored on rest makes a lot of sense, and encourages carrying multiple weapons quite well.
+ I like some of the new covenants. Blue Guardian especially is a nice change of pace, pitting two unprepared people against one prepared person.
+ Bonfire Ascetics are a great idea to unlock some NG+ stuff without needing to do NG+ (though you need to read a wiki to find where certain NG+ items are), and being able to fight bosses again is fun.
+ Didn't actually have any real problems with hitboxes, despite the amount of stuff I've heard about them. Not sure if SotFS fixed it, it was overblown, or people just weren't getting Adaptability. Yes, if you get brushed by the Pursuer with his stabbing attack it teleports you right into the center of the sword for the animation. It looks really stupid but a hits a hit and the lesson is to not get hit. Some enemies do track a bit late in their animation too but it seems overblown as well. All I can say is that I dodged the pursuer for like 5 minutes as a sorcerer without being hit in order to slowly chip away at him in Lost Bastille. Twice. If I can do that then anyone should be able to git gud playing a normal build.

Overall it's definitely worse than DaS1 or DeS, but I still enjoy it. It's kind of like pizza, even when it's mediocre you'll stuff yourself.

STILL DEMON SOULS PLUGING ALONG WITH A MAGIC BUILD

BRO ITS STILL NOT TO LATE TO REPENT FROM YOUR SORCEROUS WAYS.

TRUE BROS DON'T LET BROS PLAY NON-MELEE BUILDS.

Oh man, I take this back for DaS2. Magic is OP in DeS and DaS1, but in DaS2 it is complete shit. Most of the buffs from DaS1 are gone and all the spells are nerfed. Stuff like Great Heavy Soul Arrow only deals around 50% more damage than basic Soul Arrow and Soul Spear isn't findable forever. Crystal Soul Spear is end of NG+. Everything sucks. Can't find a better catalyst than starter until half way through the game (apparently pre-SotFS you couldn't find it until literally the 2nd to last boss, lol). Killing the scorpion queen boss to get it took around 75 spell casts. A far cry from DaS1 where you loaded up Soul Spear, Power Within, Red Tearstone, whatever the helm was called, then you 1-shotted half the bosses and 2-shotted the rest. Instead of a half dozen sources granting +20-50% damage each DaS2 has, uhh, an enemy you can fight once per game that has a small chance to drop a helm giving +3% magic damage in exchange for -15% HP. Not making this up, it's that shit (http://darksouls2.wikidot.com/black-witch-domino-mask).

I guess someone at From heard that Magic was OP and decided to burn it all to the ground. On the plus side magic/warrior hybrids look way better, the Magic Shield spell in particular is insanely good and anyone can have enough casts to last forever. But if you want hardcore play pure sorcerer, only magic for damage, Company of Champions, final destination.

So, finishing up Dark Souls 2 and I have more to say because the game deserves it. Or rather Dark Souls 1 deserves it to show why it's a good game and DS1 is a mediocre imitation made by far less competent folks. Just for reference I've completed 3 playthroughs. 1st with a pure longsword no shield build. 2nd as a mage, playing with the Champions Covenant (essentially Hard Mode), first to do DLCs for which I respecced into a rapier/mage build. 3rd as a strength/shield build which I used Cheat Engine to start on NG+, which populates areas with new dark phantoms (great change that keeps things fresh, they tend to be placed with some care to not screw balance too hard but keep you on your toes). Altogether I think I've pretty much experienced the extent of possible builds so I can speak with authority on several of the game's failings.

A big indication of the source the these problems appears almost immediately after starting the game. The very first character you meet essentially breaks the 4th wall to tell you "you'll die again and again and lose all your souls, lol (actually laughing out loud at the player along with the rest of the room)". In other words DS2 was designed to be a hard game. This is different from DS1, which was a hard game, but not at all designed to be a hard game. DS1 was designed to be a fair game in a hard world. This is an important distinction. To compare, it would be like the difference between a fair but brutal Warhammer 40k game playing a guardsman and making Kaizo Mario. DS1 is difficult because it's a horrendous world doomed to slowly die with gods walking the earth devouring souls to stay alive. DS2 is hard because the devs decided that DS1 was hard and therefore they needed DS2 to be hard as well. Just to be clear, it's not that they tried too hard to make DS2 a difficult game. It's that they were overly concerned with the overall game difficulty rather than the overall game quality. If anything the hard parts of DS1 are harder than the hard parts of DS2, because DS1 was a game where some parts happened to be hard. DS2 is as much an over-balanced game rather than just an overly-hard game, remember this for later.

Didn't mention it in my last post but there's very clear level-spacing problems in DS2. All levels in DS1 were interconnected properly, as if it was a real world that you could theoretically have fully-loaded in game and see all the details from Blightown looking down from Firelink Shrine. In DS2 there's none of these, areas would clearly overlap if loaded at the same time and there's huge discrepancies between levels where things that should be seen are not (e.g., take an elevator up from a tower in a level that clearly has open sky only to arrive at a castle sitting entirely in lava). Very clearly the DS2 devs didn't pay any attention to the world they were making, they just created a bunch of individual levels that looked cool and stapled them together with elevators. Might as well be playing Doom.

Back to the difficulty. There's too many enemies in lots of areas, and 90% of the time this means the player plays entirely the same way: inch forward, aggro as few things as possible (either by bow or by crossing the magic MMO-esque aggro circle around them) and back off immediately to fight in relative safety. This is the ideal strategy in DS1 as well, of course, but in DS1 playing in a more gung-ho style only meant fighting 2, maybe 3 enemies max. In DS2 it's effectively enforced constantly by making other methods suicidal. It's very clear that this intended because the levels specifically allow the player to retreat away and de-aggro enemies in every encounter I can think but barring one (Iron King DLC, dropping down the trap door into a half dozen enemies). The Shrine of Amana is a particular offender, the player is heavily encouraged to fire a single arrow at melee enemies then run 300 feet through water to find cover behind which the aggroed melee enemies can be fought, because ranged casters with homing soul arrow are firing roughly once every 5 seconds. Both the melee and the ranged attacks will take off roughly 1/2 your health in a hit so good luck charging in water. It's a cool area, great concept, but a horrible slog designed to kill you unless you fight through it using the lamest, slowest method possible. Areas like these consistently feel like an artificial puzzle with the object being to figure out how to aggro as little as possible. DS1 areas were a puzzle, yes, but DS1 was always about exploring and dealing with the environment + the enemies. In DS2 puzzles are about figuring out where the arbitrary "please rape me with 5 enemies at deal half my health in damage if I don't immediately start running backwards when I cross this line" points are.

There's also a lot of areas that are clearly unfinished/underfinished and just involved planting a dozens of enemies in the center of relatively open areas to attack the player when they enter. Heide's Tower of Flame, Iron Keep, Belfry Sol, Shaded Woods, Memory of the Old Iron King (by far the most egregious example). As mentioned previously, Dark Souls thrives on facing both the enemy and the environment simultaneously, fighting the same enemies over and over in wide open rooms just get tedious. DS1 certainly had it's own underfinished areas (most notably Lost Izalith), but DS2 has far, far more. The lead up to the Sir Alonne in particular is one of the worst, most obviously unfinished area I've seen in a long time. It would deserve a 1/5 star rating if submitted as a amateur's first Doom wad.

I can't believe I didn't notice this until tackling the DLCs in my 2nd game, but DS2 has a huge problem with healing item resource management. That is, there is none. You can buy 99 lifestones from the starting merchants. This is so insanely dumb it boggles the mind. Even the dullest of the dull, namely video game journalists, managed to understand that it was a good thing when Dark Souls 1 removed buyable healing items and limited players fairly strictly to estus (humanity existed but wasn't spammable). This is a clear sign that the DS2 devs simply didn't care about overall difficulty as it pertains to surviving from one bonfire to the next, only about the difficulty of individual fights. It's a lot like how recent RPGs just auto-heal players after all fights, that's what lifegems do. It means the area designers aren't interested in tricky areas or encounters that only injure players, every fight is designed to be do-or-die. I ended up resorting to this in the DLCs, which are universally monster-infested and bonfire-sparse to the point of it being a rather tedious grind to get through and backtrack through areas.

Let's also take a detour to talk about some basic game mechanics that were screwed up for no reason. Armor is good in DS1. You can read how it works here (http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/396507-dark-souls-stats-i-damage-formula-and-analysis). But the TL;DR is, armor in DS1 has both flat damage reduction and percentile damage reduction properties. In other words it worked like armor in Fallout 1/2 work, and armor in FO1/2 is awesome. Dark Souls 1 is slightly less awesome in terms of letting you be immune to everything but crits to the eyes, but just as awesome in always feeling effective whether you're taking lots of small hits or a few big hits. Dark Souls 2 decided to screw this up for reasons I can't understand. Physical armor is now purely a flat damage reduction (like Damage Threshold from FONV), and it sucks ass. It's .1 DT per armor rating, and with the max armor at around 1500 your flat 150 damage reduction does jack shit to shrug off common enemies dealing 800 damage by the mid game. Why? I dunno, I guess they wanted to make the game harder by nerfing all of the tank builds? On the other hand, DS2 decides to make Elemental resistance fully percentile. You start at 10% and every 100 elemental armor adds 10% more. 900 fire resistance? Take 0 damage from all fire attacks. Period. Thanks to this Vitality (increases max equipment load, yes I can't remember which is which between this and Vigor/Endurance either) is a useless investment. ~45 levels of Vitality to *maybe* take 3 hits instead of 2 or 4 hits instead of 3 is a joke, and the game is laughing at you as you still have a shitty roll. 30 points of vigor will give you 600 HP and give you 15 to spare somewhere else. Robes that protect against elemental attacks weigh virtually nothing and half the endgame enemies have some combination of normal damage and elemental damage on their standard attacks anyway, so sometimes you're being protected more by robes than armor when impaled by a frozen spear or what have you. TL;DR #2 almost all the armor in DS2 is useless, the only sensible options are to wear robes (elemental resist), nothing (slightly faster rolls/stamina regen) or +souls gained armor (kill the armor merchant in the starting area for it, you're not buying anything from him are you?). Dodge or block everything, don't rely on armor to do anything unless it's a dragon breathing fire.

Poise (the other part of armor) and poise damage (the thing strength weapons are for) also kind of sucks. It's not actually broken for the player or really changed in any way I can tell from DS1, it's just not suited for DS2's PvE. Poise is entirely about being a tie-breaker in 1v1 combat. You and your opponent swing together, you both hit, they stagger because they suck and you combo their ass to death. It keeps you swinging through 1, maybe 2 hits at most. But because DS2 is all about groups of enemies everywhere trying to just bully your way through with a strength weapon is suicidal. You take one hit, you stagger your attacked target and in return his buddies all get their hit in to stun you and then lol now you're stunned while in the middle of 3-4 enemies ready to rape you. GG no re. Additionally almost every boss is nigh immune to poise damage as far as I can tell, so those big strength weapons dealing 700-800 damage are literally useless jokes compared to dex weapons hitting 3x as quickly for 500-600. This is a real bummer, in DS1 almost every boss could be stunned by a good two-handed strength weapon (even lowly maces and clubs), leading to a lot of free time to get hits in. I did manage to stun a few bosses with the high-level pyromancy Fire Whip (in particular Mytha can be stunlocked to death with it) but I'm pretty sure that's so far above the level of poise damage that strength weapons deal out that there's no point bothering. There's also a ring that gives +poise damage, faster weapons end up as good or better than strength weapons with it on when fighting the things that can be reasonably stunned. Everything still kind of works and feels balanced for PvP, it's just the PvE environment that poise is messed up in.

Magic is also rather trash as mentioned in my previous post. Because you're constantly fighting groups and overall magic damage is rather weak outside of uber spells, you're always ending up in melee range before you can kill them all. Once you're there, do you want to spend 2s casting a spell (3s for any of the better spells) unable to dodge or .75s stabbing for the same damage? Bosses also have the same problem, since all of them have very clear gap-closing moves designed to punish a player who tries to back off and cast a slow spell from a medium distance. If you're going to end up in melee with them and dodging just the same as a melee character would, why cast a spell rather than attack with a much higher DPS melee weapon? There's simply no reasonably difficult boss fight in which magic is anywhere near as good as melee, and relatively few areas in which it excels. Again, nerfed because DS2 devs decided that there was a right way to play (quick, active melee) and a wrong way to play (virtually everything else)? I hear magic used to be more like DS1 and was nerfed because it made the game too easy, I guess that answers that. Game needed to be made harder, so make something good suck.

Anyway, lets talk about bosses. I'm just going to list a few categories of sins and the relevant bosses that commit it.

- Generic humanoid melee bosses.
So many bosses. Shit, let me pull up a list. Pursuer, Dragonrider, Old Dragonslayer, Flexile Sentry, Ruin Sentinels, Lost Sinner, Smelter Demon, Looking Glass Knight, The Rotten, Velstadt, Throne Defender/Watcher, Fume Knight, Sir Alonne, Burnt Iron King.

Now these aren't neccesarily all bad bosses. The problem is that there are too many and they are often too indistinguishable in how their moveset works. Most of them are visually great and all but as soon as you start fighting them it takes 5s to figure out what they are about and 20s to learn their specific timings. They run up to you, do a 3 hit combo (almost always coming from the left, so if you roll to the left through them you'll easily avoid the rest by strafing), and you punish. Then there are the gimmicks. The gimmicks are consistently really bad, basically a fatal weakness of the boss. Pursuer? He stops and spends 10s firing dark magic in front of him, you circle behind him and spend 10s smacking his shithole. Velstadt's gimmick is literally the same. Looking Glass Knight does the same except to spawn an enemy. Other gimmicks just don't matter. Smelter Demon does a very small amount of damage to you while you are close to him. Fume Knight changes to a slower sword halfway through the fight (becoming arguably easier). Flexile Sentry sometimes switches to a weapon that does more poise damage. The rest generally don't even half a gimmick and would be indistinguishable if not for the different 3d model.

This list needs to be condensed and there needs to be more distinctiveness. The part that differentiates a boss from the rest should be obvious and powerful. DS1's Artorias was the insanely aggressive boss that was agile and leaping all over the place like a giant rabbit on crack. Manus was the boss with really killer dark magic and short/mid ranged melee attacks, able to threaten you at any range. Ornstein and Smough were the tag team with completely different archetypes that made for the most difficult fight in DS1. Four Kings was the boss rush, go DPS or go home. Gwyn was the "fair" fight, almost like a powered-up player. Priscilla was arguably the weakest gimmick with invisibilty, but it works and at least it isn't a gimmick that ends up a fatal weakness like DS2's bosses. Stray Demon and Taurus Demon are the gimmick-less ones, basically there to help train the player. They appropriately come early in the game rather than at the end or in post-endgame DLC areas like several DS1 bosses. DS2 bosses needed to be distinctive like this.

- Overly simplistic bosses.
This is unfortunatenly a good portion of the rest. Last Giant. Covetous Demon. Old Iron King. Demon of Song. Giant Lord. Nashandra. Ancient Dragon.

These bosses are all woefully underdesigned. They have glaring weaknesses and painfully easy to recognize and dodge moves. Now this isn't unusual for the series, Dark Souls and Demons Souls have a number of dud bosses. The unfortunate part is that these bosses are quite unique and it's a shame for them to suck or lack truly threatening abilities. Was development time lacking, or was the team too inexperienced to be able to come up with a unique boss that was threatening without charging into melee with their 3-hit combo?

- Bosses that were clearly meant to be harder.
Skeleton Lords. Royal Rat Authority. Prowling Magus & Congregation. Duke's Dear Freja. Looking Glass Knight. Throne Defender/Watcher. Darklurker.
A curious part of DS2 is that there are a number of bosses that should be incredibly difficult but ended up being a joke. My guess is that they were more difficult in development, but then playtesters complained and they were unceremoniously nerfed into the ground, because as I mentioned at the start DS2 is a game overly concerned with difficulty rather than just letting an overly difficult boss exist. The sad thing is that this includes most of the fights in the game that would be very good. They are also all multi-enemy fights.

What happens in these? Well, the AI is very clearly neutered and will flat out not pursue you in order to let you get free hits in. This is most obvious in Skeleton Lords, where being in a room with 30 skeletons should be insanely difficult. Instead the skeletons are almost passive, only slowly coming after you and rarely mobbing you up. Royal Rat Authority? The rats fucking WALK. You can just run back and forth between them without a problem. Freja's the same but has a rather annoying and bloated HP bar just to annoy you with. Prowling Magus and Congregation flat out have no HP. Darklurker doesn't clone until half HP and by then he's a few taps away from death. Throne Defender/Watcher will decide to take a break once in a while and back off to let you wail on the other. Looking Glass Knight barely comes after you while you are dueling whatever he summoned.

This really breaks the realism of DS2 and makes the game instead feel akin an over-balanced boring mess. Want a good fucking fight? Ornstein and Smough are a good fucking fight. They are deadly, they are powerful, and they are 100% relentless in aggressively getting in the player's face to fuck them up. Gargoyles are a similarly good fight, hence DS2 had to copy it in order to get the only good multi-enemy fight next to Ruin Sentinels. Enemies that are clearly pulling their punches have no place in a Dark Souls game, period. It's absolutely disgusting and makes DS2 feel like Fisher Price presents Dark Souls whenever you realize a fight is just completely trivial.

- Just to be fair, let's list the good bosses of DS2
Pursuer is a good introductory boss, his surprises throughout the rest of the game are enjoyable, the throne room 2v1 is great. Pity that the 2v1 requires you to beat the game first, but it's the closest the game has to Ornstein & Smough. Gargoyles and Ruin Sentinels have already been mentioned as good. Chariot is unique, I can dig it. Mytha is mobile with some hard-to-read attacks, some quick spells, a decent room gimmick. I didn't list her under generic humanoid melee bosses because she's unique enough to stand out. Najka is almost a copy of Quelaag but gets credit nonetheless. Elana is tricky if you don't cheese the fight by leaving just 1 skeleton alive, basically a Darklurker/Nashandra done right. Sinh is a good dragon fight. The adventuring trio is fun even if it isn't terribly boss-like. Aava is an example of a high-aggression melee boss that manages to not suck. The dual pet boss is insane and would be awesome if it didn't take forever to get to.

To conclude, a mini-review of the DLCs:

Crown of the Old Iron King is decent. The main area is, in total opposition to the base game's simplistic corridors, almost overdesigned and too complex. There's really just not enough to distinguish the different levels within the tower and help players get their bearings, it could use more variety. Bosses are all mediocre, falling in the generic humanoid category. Also significantly HP-bloated which makes them take much longer than most base game bosses. Enemy abundance is truly ridiculous in some parts, some of the worst examples of stuffing a bunch of crap into a small area to annoy players. Needing to run back and forth to the ashen idols is a bad way to artificially extend gameplay.
Crown of the Sunken King is well designed all-around. Great area gimmicks, great bosses. Really no complaints, only positive impressions all around. A bit of enemy number bloat but more subdued than the other DLCs. Also the trio is a bit anti-climactic, they should have come before Sinh.
Crown of the Ivory King is pretty good. Areas are a bit too long with a bit too much time between bonfires. Definitely necessitates lifegem spamming here. Also way too many enemies in general much like Iron King. Bosses are good except for the Ivory King himself, another generic humanoid melee boss, but he's still alright on account of just how badass his entire fight goes. Forcing players to retread through so much crap is, again, a poor way to artificially extend gameplay.

Anyway, I've definitely said enough by now. Crooked Bee wanted a review of Dark Souls 2 a few years back, guess I can deliver something of the sort now. Dark Souls 2 did manage to hit that specific point of making me mad about something I want to like such that I had to type all this out.

TL;DR Nowhere near as good as DaS1 and will make you appreciate everything good about DaS1 100x more. Still decently enjoyable if stacked against modern crap.
 
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Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,920
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Average Manatee said:
Overall DS2 is... kind of like pizza, even when it's mediocre you'll stuff yourself.
Nice comparison. For all the attempt at innovating, DS2 ends up pretty mediocre overall. But I still praise something mediocre trying to innovate, over something mediocre that's just aping shit like DS3.

Of course, BB managed to be both innovative and non-mediocre, which only confirms that From is better at doing new stuff than direct sequels. Miyazaki must be a fast burner kind of person.
 

Beggar

Cipher
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Messages
738
Gonna quote myself for posterity here so it isn't lost in the What Game are you Wasting Time on? thread:

Been playing Dark Souls 2 recently. Had it since release but was a bit disappointed in some of the stuff near the beginning and dropped it. Finished it Monday with a pure Longsword build (no shield), in the middle of a pure sorcery build now. Thoughts:

- The adaptability/I-frame thing is bullshit of the highest degree. Hitting your I-frames properly to dodge through shit is *the* essential skill of Dark Souls (assuming you aren't a shield coward), having the timing window vary is the dumbest idea ever. It'd be like playing a Guitar Hero game with a variable timing window for hitting notes, it just doesn't work. You need consistency to develop a reaction to things. On top of that you start with the window so insanely short that the game just makes you feel like you are complete shit at Souls games even if you are literally doing everything properly. Tons of attacks (as far as I can tell) are flat out unavoidable without a longer I-Frame window. Trying to dodge under Pursuer's strikes or through the big troll-like monsters in the first area with minimum agility is completely suicidal, which is a problem when that's what you are supposed to be doing to fight them. Once you dump all of your initial 20 levels or so into adaptability or attunement it's fine, before then it's shit (hope you read the wiki to figure out that you needed to do this to get more I-Frames). Probably a big part of what pissed me off initially and led to me dropping it, along with the control lag.
- Linear as fuck areas with no interleaving. At any time there's only 2 or 3 possible areas to visit, then when you finish all available paths 2 or 3 new areas open up.
- Overall level design is just poor and too video-gamey. Almost nothing feels like a real previously lived-in area like in DaS or especially DeS. The first castle was alright but the 2nd and end game one was just a linear corridor to the end.
- Way too many randomly locked doors that you have to backtrack too later, with keys to them found half a game away. Worse yet, there's virtually no indication of what key goes where, so I hope you're writing down all those randomly locked doors on a notepad somewhere and willing to check them all when you find something. I bet this was an attempt to alleviate the feeling of linearity but it just makes the game insufferable to play without checking the wiki to figure out what goes where. The worst being the fucking Iron Key, which is found 3/4ths of the way through the game and has nothing to indicate that it opens a door right next to the first boss you fought.
- Way more NPCs/dialog/story time in DaS2 than DaS1, yet I understood how the story was going far less. DaS1 you could really feel the climax of the game. DaS2 I didn't even know I was fighting the final boss until she died and the ending selection option appeared. I'm not actually sure what lets you progress, as far as I can tell it's kill some unspecified number of bosses at the end of 4 linear paths (game implied I needed all 4, but IIRC I had only 3 and the NPC just said "lol wutever you can go but you'll be killed"), then you bum around in the castle and go down another linear path till you reach the end, then you bum around in the first area activating trees to fight in other people's memories, one of which gives you a boss fight that gives you a soul that lets you finish the game in aforementioned castle's basement. I have no idea what any of this was for, the game is literally just doors that say "you must fuck around till you find the macguffin that lets you pass".
- Game has way too many souls to find. I ended at level 171 and I could have leveled way higher had I consumed all the boss souls in my inventory. This is enough to soft-cap literally everything I needed with points to spare. That's Vigor, Endurance, Vitality, Strength, Dexterity, and Adaptibility all softcapped and I didn't know what to do with about 15 points left over since I was trying to play a no-casting build. This really ruins variety if you aren't roleplaying a very narrow class. Had I not maxed both Str and Dex I could have easily been a fully-powered caster in addition to a maxed warrior by the end game. And I didn't even do the DLC areas, they must push you over level 200.
- Fragrant Branches of Yore are BULLSHIT AS HELL. Yes, lets make limited-use items to unpetrify people that block areas, guard vital equipment, or even just have vital items on them with no hint to this (fairly important merchant is hidden behind a door whose key is found off a completely random statue). No hint of which ones are important or which ones are worthless, so go use a guide. Did I mention there is a limited number in the entire game? This is not something you can farm or buy more of, run out and you lose access to content until NG+.
- Lots of important things are hidden in very specific spots, some of them even in NG+. Stuff like spell selection or certain items don't show up at all until you've basically finished the game. Wouldn't be a problem if the game was far less linear, or if it was overall shorter with a lower level limit, but it looks like some builds will basically need to hit level 100ish before they become useful.
- Soul Memory is really awful for PvP and I can't understand what it tried to accomplish. Stop people from level squatting while getting +15 weapons to destroy newbs? But you can still do since weapons don't require much souls to level and there's a ring to stop you from gaining more souls. In the end it just punishes you for losing your souls or spending them on equipment since you end up being thrown in a higher PvP bracket.

+ M&K controls are surprisingly good once you turn off the double click crap and remap a few things. Aside from XBOX button prompts it feels like a native 3rd person PC game. Stuff like the camera control and turning radius are way better (i.e. instant response) than most 3rd person shooters I've played. It's very smooth and completely playable without lockon in melee. Only issue I've noticed is that if you really, really spam mouse clicks fast, mashing to get attacks out as fast as possible, it sometimes won't register at all. But the game buffers input a bit so there's no reason to do this.
+ Like the enhanced difficulty covenant option.
+ Like the far more limited estus flasks. Especially in the beginning, I was at 1 or 2 uses per area for a long, long time. Made it all feel very tense. Good way to reward exploration too.
+ Pursuer mini-boss popping up and the much more significant number of AI invaders is cool.
+ Use of darkness and torches in a few areas is good.
+ Quicker durability loss but durability restored on rest makes a lot of sense, and encourages carrying multiple weapons quite well.
+ I like some of the new covenants. Blue Guardian especially is a nice change of pace, pitting two unprepared people against one prepared person.
+ Bonfire Ascetics are a great idea to unlock some NG+ stuff without needing to do NG+ (though you need to read a wiki to find where certain NG+ items are), and being able to fight bosses again is fun.
+ Didn't actually have any real problems with hitboxes, despite the amount of stuff I've heard about them. Not sure if SotFS fixed it, it was overblown, or people just weren't getting Adaptability. Yes, if you get brushed by the Pursuer with his stabbing attack it teleports you right into the center of the sword for the animation. It looks really stupid but a hits a hit and the lesson is to not get hit. Some enemies do track a bit late in their animation too but it seems overblown as well. All I can say is that I dodged the pursuer for like 5 minutes as a sorcerer without being hit in order to slowly chip away at him in Lost Bastille. Twice. If I can do that then anyone should be able to git gud playing a normal build.

Overall it's definitely worse than DaS1 or DeS, but I still enjoy it. It's kind of like pizza, even when it's mediocre you'll stuff yourself.

STILL DEMON SOULS PLUGING ALONG WITH A MAGIC BUILD

BRO ITS STILL NOT TO LATE TO REPENT FROM YOUR SORCEROUS WAYS.

TRUE BROS DON'T LET BROS PLAY NON-MELEE BUILDS.

Oh man, I take this back for DaS2. Magic is OP in DeS and DaS1, but in DaS2 it is complete shit. Most of the buffs from DaS1 are gone and all the spells are nerfed. Stuff like Great Heavy Soul Arrow only deals around 50% more damage than basic Soul Arrow and Soul Spear isn't findable forever. Crystal Soul Spear is end of NG+. Everything sucks. Can't find a better catalyst than starter until half way through the game (apparently pre-SotFS you couldn't find it until literally the 2nd to last boss, lol). Killing the scorpion queen boss to get it took around 75 spell casts. A far cry from DaS1 where you loaded up Soul Spear, Power Within, Red Tearstone, whatever the helm was called, then you 1-shotted half the bosses and 2-shotted the rest. Instead of a half dozen sources granting +20-50% damage each DaS2 has, uhh, an enemy you can fight once per game that has a small chance to drop a helm giving +3% magic damage in exchange for -15% HP. Not making this up, it's that shit (http://darksouls2.wikidot.com/black-witch-domino-mask).

I guess someone at From heard that Magic was OP and decided to burn it all to the ground. On the plus side magic/warrior hybrids look way better, the Magic Shield spell in particular is insanely good and anyone can have enough casts to last forever. But if you want hardcore play pure sorcerer, only magic for damage, Company of Champions, final destination.

So, finishing up Dark Souls 2 and I have more to say because the game deserves it. Or rather Dark Souls 1 deserves it to show why it's a good game and DS1 is a mediocre imitation made by far less competent folks. Just for reference I've completed 3 playthroughs. 1st with a pure longsword no shield build. 2nd as a mage, playing with the Champions Covenant (essentially Hard Mode), first to do DLCs for which I respecced into a rapier/mage build. 3rd as a strength/shield build which I used Cheat Engine to start on NG+, which populates areas with new dark phantoms (great change that keeps things fresh, they tend to be placed with some care to not screw balance too hard but keep you on your toes). Altogether I think I've pretty much experienced the extent of possible builds so I can speak with authority on several of the game's failings.

A big indication of the source the these problems appears almost immediately after starting the game. The very first character you meet essentially breaks the 4th wall to tell you "you'll die again and again and lose all your souls, lol (actually laughing out loud at the player along with the rest of the room)". In other words DS2 was designed to be a hard game. This is different from DS1, which was a hard game, but not at all designed to be a hard game. DS1 was designed to be a fair game in a hard world. This is an important distinction. To compare, it would be like the difference between a fair but brutal Warhammer 40k game playing a guardsman and making Kaizo Mario. DS1 is difficult because it's a horrendous world doomed to slowly die with gods walking the earth devouring souls to stay alive. DS2 is hard because the devs decided that DS1 was hard and therefore they needed DS2 to be hard as well. Just to be clear, it's not that they tried too hard to make DS2 a difficult game. It's that they were overly concerned with the overall game difficulty rather than the overall game quality. If anything the hard parts of DS1 are harder than the hard parts of DS2, because DS1 was a game where some parts happened to be hard. DS2 is as much an over-balanced game rather than just an overly-hard game, remember this for later.

Didn't mention it in my last post but there's very clear level-spacing problems in DS2. All levels in DS1 were interconnected properly, as if it was a real world that you could theoretically have fully-loaded in game and see all the details from Blightown looking down from Firelink Shrine. In DS2 there's none of these, areas would clearly overlap if loaded at the same time and there's huge discrepancies between levels where things that should be seen are not (e.g., take an elevator up from a tower in a level that clearly has open sky only to arrive at a castle sitting entirely in lava). Very clearly the DS2 devs didn't pay any attention to the world they were making, they just created a bunch of individual levels that looked cool and stapled them together with elevators. Might as well be playing Doom.

Back to the difficulty. There's too many enemies in lots of areas, and 90% of the time this means the player plays entirely the same way: inch forward, aggro as few things as possible (either by bow or by crossing the magic MMO-esque aggro circle around them) and back off immediately to fight in relative safety. This is the ideal strategy in DS1 as well, of course, but in DS1 playing in a more gung-ho style only meant fighting 2, maybe 3 enemies max. In DS2 it's effectively enforced constantly by making other methods suicidal. It's very clear that this intended because the levels specifically allow the player to retreat away and de-aggro enemies in every encounter I can think but barring one (Iron King DLC, dropping down the trap door into a half dozen enemies). The Shrine of Amana is a particular offender, the player is heavily encouraged to fire a single arrow at melee enemies then run 300 feet through water to find cover behind which the aggroed melee enemies can be fought, because ranged casters with homing soul arrow are firing roughly once every 5 seconds. Both the melee and the ranged attacks will take off roughly 1/2 your health in a hit so good luck charging in water. It's a cool area, great concept, but a horrible slog designed to kill you unless you fight through it using the lamest, slowest method possible. Areas like these consistently feel like an artificial puzzle with the object being to figure out how to aggro as little as possible. DS1 areas were a puzzle, yes, but DS1 was always about exploring and dealing with the environment + the enemies. In DS2 puzzles are about figuring out where the arbitrary "please rape me with 5 enemies at deal half my health in damage if I don't immediately start running backwards when I cross this line" points are.

There's also a lot of areas that are clearly unfinished/underfinished and just involved planting a dozens of enemies in the center of relatively open areas to attack the player when they enter. Heide's Tower of Flame, Iron Keep, Belfry Sol, Shaded Woods, Memory of the Old Iron King (by far the most egregious example). As mentioned previously, Dark Souls thrives on facing both the enemy and the environment simultaneously, fighting the same enemies over and over in wide open rooms just get tedious. DS1 certainly had it's own underfinished areas (most notably Lost Izalith), but DS2 has far, far more. The lead up to the Sir Alonne in particular is one of the worst, most obviously unfinished area I've seen in a long time. It would deserve a 1/5 star rating if submitted as a amateur's first Doom wad.

I can't believe I didn't notice this until tackling the DLCs in my 2nd game, but DS2 has a huge problem with healing item resource management. That is, there is none. You can buy 99 lifestones from the starting merchants. This is so insanely dumb it boggles the mind. Even the dullest of the dull, namely video game journalists, managed to understand that it was a good thing when Dark Souls 1 removed buyable healing items and limited players fairly strictly to estus (humanity existed but wasn't spammable). This is a clear sign that the DS2 devs simply didn't care about overall difficulty as it pertains to surviving from one bonfire to the next, only about the difficulty of individual fights. It's a lot like how recent RPGs just auto-heal players after all fights, that's what lifegems do. It means the area designers aren't interested in tricky areas or encounters that only injure players, every fight is designed to be do-or-die. I ended up resorting to this in the DLCs, which are universally monster-infested and bonfire-sparse to the point of it being a rather tedious grind to get through and backtrack through areas.

Let's also take a detour to talk about some basic game mechanics that were screwed up for no reason. Armor is good in DS1. You can read how it works here (http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/396507-dark-souls-stats-i-damage-formula-and-analysis). But the TL;DR is, armor in DS1 has both flat damage reduction and percentile damage reduction properties. In other words it worked like armor in Fallout 1/2 work, and armor in FO1/2 is awesome. Dark Souls 1 is slightly less awesome in terms of letting you be immune to everything but crits to the eyes, but just as awesome in always feeling effective whether you're taking lots of small hits or a few big hits. Dark Souls 2 decided to screw this up for reasons I can't understand. Physical armor is now purely a flat damage reduction (like Damage Threshold from FONV), and it sucks ass. It's .1 DT per armor rating, and with the max armor at around 1500 your flat 150 damage reduction does jack shit to shrug off common enemies dealing 800 damage by the mid game. Why? I dunno, I guess they wanted to make the game harder by nerfing all of the tank builds? On the other hand, DS2 decides to make Elemental resistance fully percentile. You start at 10% and every 100 elemental armor adds 10% more. 900 fire resistance? Take 0 damage from all fire attacks. Period. Thanks to this Vitality (increases max equipment load, yes I can't remember which is which between this and Vigor/Endurance either) is a useless investment. ~45 levels of Vitality to *maybe* take 3 hits instead of 2 or 4 hits instead of 3 is a joke, and the game is laughing at you as you still have a shitty roll. 30 points of vigor will give you 600 HP and give you 15 to spare somewhere else. Robes that protect against elemental attacks weigh virtually nothing and half the endgame enemies have some combination of normal damage and elemental damage on their standard attacks anyway, so sometimes you're being protected more by robes than armor when impaled by a frozen spear or what have you. TL;DR #2 almost all the armor in DS2 is useless, the only sensible options are to wear robes (elemental resist), nothing (slightly faster rolls/stamina regen) or +souls gained armor (kill the armor merchant in the starting area for it, you're not buying anything from him are you?). Dodge or block everything, don't rely on armor to do anything unless it's a dragon breathing fire.

Poise (the other part of armor) and poise damage (the thing strength weapons are for) also kind of sucks. It's not actually broken for the player or really changed in any way I can tell from DS1, it's just not suited for DS2's PvE. Poise is entirely about being a tie-breaker in 1v1 combat. You and your opponent swing together, you both hit, they stagger because they suck and you combo their ass to death. It keeps you swinging through 1, maybe 2 hits at most. But because DS2 is all about groups of enemies everywhere trying to just bully your way through with a strength weapon is suicidal. You take one hit, you stagger your attacked target and in return his buddies all get their hit in to stun you and then lol now you're stunned while in the middle of 3-4 enemies ready to rape you. GG no re. Additionally almost every boss is nigh immune to poise damage as far as I can tell, so those big strength weapons dealing 700-800 damage are literally useless jokes compared to dex weapons hitting 3x as quickly for 500-600. This is a real bummer, in DS1 almost every boss could be stunned by a good two-handed strength weapon (even lowly maces and clubs), leading to a lot of free time to get hits in. I did manage to stun a few bosses with the high-level pyromancy Fire Whip (in particular Mytha can be stunlocked to death with it) but I'm pretty sure that's so far above the level of poise damage that strength weapons deal out that there's no point bothering. There's also a ring that gives +poise damage, faster weapons end up as good or better than strength weapons with it on when fighting the things that can be reasonably stunned. Everything still kind of works and feels balanced for PvP, it's just the PvE environment that poise is messed up in.

Magic is also rather trash as mentioned in my previous post. Because you're constantly fighting groups and overall magic damage is rather weak outside of uber spells, you're always ending up in melee range before you can kill them all. Once you're there, do you want to spend 2s casting a spell (3s for any of the better spells) unable to dodge or .75s stabbing for the same damage? Bosses also have the same problem, since all of them have very clear gap-closing moves designed to punish a player who tries to back off and cast a slow spell from a medium distance. If you're going to end up in melee with them and dodging just the same as a melee character would, why cast a spell rather than attack with a much higher DPS melee weapon? There's simply no reasonably difficult boss fight in which magic is anywhere near as good as melee, and relatively few areas in which it excels. Again, nerfed because DS2 devs decided that there was a right way to play (quick, active melee) and a wrong way to play (virtually everything else)? I hear magic used to be more like DS1 and was nerfed because it made the game too easy, I guess that answers that. Game needed to be made harder, so make something good suck.

Anyway, lets talk about bosses. I'm just going to list a few categories of sins and the relevant bosses that commit it.

- Generic humanoid melee bosses.
So many bosses. Shit, let me pull up a list. Pursuer, Dragonrider, Old Dragonslayer, Flexile Sentry, Ruin Sentinels, Lost Sinner, Smelter Demon, Looking Glass Knight, The Rotten, Velstadt, Throne Defender/Watcher, Fume Knight, Sir Alonne, Burnt Iron King.

Now these aren't neccesarily all bad bosses. The problem is that there are too many and they are often too indistinguishable in how their moveset works. Most of them are visually great and all but as soon as you start fighting them it takes 5s to figure out what they are about and 20s to learn their specific timings. They run up to you, do a 3 hit combo (almost always coming from the left, so if you roll to the left through them you'll easily avoid the rest by strafing), and you punish. Then there are the gimmicks. The gimmicks are consistently really bad, basically a fatal weakness of the boss. Pursuer? He stops and spends 10s firing dark magic in front of him, you circle behind him and spend 10s smacking his shithole. Velstadt's gimmick is literally the same. Looking Glass Knight does the same except to spawn an enemy. Other gimmicks just don't matter. Smelter Demon does a very small amount of damage to you while you are close to him. Fume Knight changes to a slower sword halfway through the fight (becoming arguably easier). Flexile Sentry sometimes switches to a weapon that does more poise damage. The rest generally don't even half a gimmick and would be indistinguishable if not for the different 3d model.

This list needs to be condensed and there needs to be more distinctiveness. The part that differentiates a boss from the rest should be obvious and powerful. DS1's Artorias was the insanely aggressive boss that was agile and leaping all over the place like a giant rabbit on crack. Manus was the boss with really killer dark magic and short/mid ranged melee attacks, able to threaten you at any range. Ornstein and Smough were the tag team with completely different archetypes that made for the most difficult fight in DS1. Four Kings was the boss rush, go DPS or go home. Gwyn was the "fair" fight, almost like a powered-up player. Priscilla was arguably the weakest gimmick with invisibilty, but it works and at least it isn't a gimmick that ends up a fatal weakness like DS2's bosses. Stray Demon and Taurus Demon are the gimmick-less ones, basically there to help train the player. They appropriately come early in the game rather than at the end or in post-endgame DLC areas like several DS1 bosses. DS2 bosses needed to be distinctive like this.

- Overly simplistic bosses.
This is unfortunatenly a good portion of the rest. Last Giant. Covetous Demon. Old Iron King. Demon of Song. Giant Lord. Nashandra. Ancient Dragon.

These bosses are all woefully underdesigned. They have glaring weaknesses and painfully easy to recognize and dodge moves. Now this isn't unusual for the series, Dark Souls and Demons Souls have a number of dud bosses. The unfortunate part is that these bosses are quite unique and it's a shame for them to suck or lack truly threatening abilities. Was development time lacking, or was the team too inexperienced to be able to come up with a unique boss that was threatening without charging into melee with their 3-hit combo?

- Bosses that were clearly meant to be harder.
Skeleton Lords. Royal Rat Authority. Prowling Magus & Congregation. Duke's Dear Freja. Looking Glass Knight. Throne Defender/Watcher. Darklurker.
A curious part of DS2 is that there are a number of bosses that should be incredibly difficult but ended up being a joke. My guess is that they were more difficult in development, but then playtesters complained and they were unceremoniously nerfed into the ground, because as I mentioned at the start DS2 is a game overly concerned with difficulty rather than just letting an overly difficult boss exist. The sad thing is that this includes most of the fights in the game that would be very good. They are also all multi-enemy fights.

What happens in these? Well, the AI is very clearly neutered and will flat out not pursue you in order to let you get free hits in. This is most obvious in Skeleton Lords, where being in a room with 30 skeletons should be insanely difficult. Instead the skeletons are almost passive, only slowly coming after you and rarely mobbing you up. Royal Rat Authority? The rats fucking WALK. You can just run back and forth between them without a problem. Freja's the same but has a rather annoying and bloated HP bar just to annoy you with. Prowling Magus and Congregation flat out have no HP. Darklurker doesn't clone until half HP and by then he's a few taps away from death. Throne Defender/Watcher will decide to take a break once in a while and back off to let you wail on the other. Looking Glass Knight barely comes after you while you are dueling whatever he summoned.

This really breaks the realism of DS2 and makes the game instead feel akin an over-balanced boring mess. Want a good fucking fight? Ornstein and Smough are a good fucking fight. They are deadly, they are powerful, and they are 100% relentless in aggressively getting in the player's face to fuck them up. Gargoyles are a similarly good fight, hence DS2 had to copy it in order to get the only good multi-enemy fight next to Ruin Sentinels. Enemies that are clearly pulling their punches have no place in a Dark Souls game, period. It's absolutely disgusting and makes DS2 feel like Fisher Price presents Dark Souls whenever you realize a fight is just completely trivial.

- Just to be fair, let's list the good bosses of DS2
Pursuer is a good introductory boss, his surprises throughout the rest of the game are enjoyable, the throne room 2v1 is great. Pity that the 2v1 requires you to beat the game first, but it's the closest the game has to Ornstein & Smough. Gargoyles and Ruin Sentinels have already been mentioned as good. Chariot is unique, I can dig it. Mytha is mobile with some hard-to-read attacks, some quick spells, a decent room gimmick. I didn't list her under generic humanoid melee bosses because she's unique enough to stand out. Najka is almost a copy of Quelaag but gets credit nonetheless. Elana is tricky if you don't cheese the fight by leaving just 1 skeleton alive, basically a Darklurker/Nashandra done right. Sinh is a good dragon fight. The adventuring trio is fun even if it isn't terribly boss-like. Aava is an example of a high-aggression melee boss that manages to not suck. The dual pet boss is insane and would be awesome if it didn't take forever to get to.

To conclude, a mini-review of the DLCs:

Crown of the Old Iron King is decent. The main area is, in total opposition to the base game's simplistic corridors, almost overdesigned and too complex. There's really just not enough to distinguish the different levels within the tower and help players get their bearings, it could use more variety. Bosses are all mediocre, falling in the generic humanoid category. Also significantly HP-bloated which makes them take much longer than most base game bosses. Enemy abundance is truly ridiculous in some parts, some of the worst examples of stuffing a bunch of crap into a small area to annoy players. Needing to run back and forth to the ashen idols is a bad way to artificially extend gameplay.
Crown of the Sunken King is well designed all-around. Great area gimmicks, great bosses. Really no complaints, only positive impressions all around. A bit of enemy number bloat but more subdued than the other DLCs. Also the trio is a bit anti-climactic, they should have come before Sinh.
Crown of the Ivory King is pretty good. Areas are a bit too long with a bit too much time between bonfires. Definitely necessitates lifegem spamming here. Also way too many enemies in general much like Iron King. Bosses are good except for the Ivory King himself, another generic humanoid melee boss, but he's still alright on account of just how badass his entire fight goes. Forcing players to retread through so much crap is, again, a poor way to artificially extend gameplay.

Anyway, I've definitely said enough by now. Crooked Bee wanted a review of Dark Souls 2 a few years back, guess I can deliver something of the sort now. Dark Souls 2 did manage to hit that specific point of making me mad about something I want to like such that I had to type all this out.

TL;DR Nowhere near as good as DaS1 and will make you appreciate everything good about DaS1 100x more. Still decently enjoyable if stacked against modern crap.

Your view on DS2 is spot on. Now I'm playing DS2 with integrated graphics and with audiobook. Beat this game 3 times this week. DLC are something special, it might even be the best piece in the DS series, but the engine and mechanics itself are terrible and it ruins so much good content. It feels like I'm playing PS2 game. How it is even possible to degrade Dark Souls to a such degree
 

Adon

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2015
Messages
667
Just finished DaS2, and overall I was pretty happy with my time spent on it. I did miss some stuff, but I'll eventually get to what I missed on my next playthrough after DaS3.

Finally went through the last piece of DLC, Crown of the Sunken King, and while I liked the level design for Shulva, the bosses were mostly just mediocre. It was also really short. Before I knew it I had finished exploring all the areas, got the crown and everything seemed to be over. But that's probably because there's no NPCs or narrative giving it the level of finality that I got from Sunken King but here it was more disappointing because even Old Iron King ends on a better note. Overall a mixed bag, but still pretty decent. I definitely went from best to worst. Frozen Eleum Loyce = Brume Tower > Shulva.

Anyway quick summary on some thoughts

- Locations are definitely a plus over DaS1. Most locations are more memorable imo. That's not to say DaS1's are forgettable, but there was more of a unified art direction to the setting/locations of this game in comparison. Not as strongly as DeS, but still solid.

- I don't know if it's because the last "Souls" game I played was Bloodborne, but the game felt very slow at first. I died quite a few times in the beginning where I got hit when I was trying to heal. Because of this I think the game can be rougher on people playing solo which it was for me at the start. But eventually I got used to it, and everything felt mostly fine. I can see how this can be a negative point for some people. Didn't mess around with power stance as much as I'd like, but the variety of weapons and armor is pretty outstanding. Unlike DaS1, there wasn't a stat that necessarily felt like a "dump" stat and they were all pretty useful in one way or another regardless of the build you were going for. Well, maybe the exception is attunement unless you're going for mage/faith/pyromancy build.

- Game felt like it had stronger requirements for weapons which I think was good as it forces people to kind of commit, but at the same time you level up so fucking fast it felt unreal. Love that you can respec your character and reallocate all your points. I'm defintely going to play around with this more in NG+. Same thing with the bonfire acstetic.

- Ah, that reminds me of another reason of why some people can see this game as too brutal at times. While you do get plenty of Human Effigies, the penalty for dying over and over again as a hollow means your HP keeps getting reduced time and time again. That's a stark contrast to DeS and DaS1 where the percentage you lose is fixed. The change itself is fine however as, like I said, you get plenty of Human Effigies. On Brume Tower alone I must've used over 20 but by the time I finished the game, I had well over 50.

- Part of the reason I ended having so many Human Effigies is because of how many fucking NPC invaders the game has. This is actually something that was really annoying. They showed up at some of the worst moments, and that Forlorn with the scythe was easily the worst.

- I've never been big on PVP, and I don't mind a bout every now and then, but I disliked that you could get invaded while hollow.

- This is more of a personal preference, but I prefer Majula as a hub over Firelink Shrine. In games like these that can feel brutal (for a lack of a better word), I feel that something as serene of a hub like Majula can be a great mental break whenever you have to manage your equipment, level up, etc., to get you ready to get back into the fight. Firelink Shrine never felt like that (or much of a hub); although that was probably the point.

- Despite having multiple choices for where you want to go to first, much like DaS1, it's very obvious which path you should take first. Having said that, after Forest of the Giants, I do think the game opens up a bit. You can either go Lost Bastille or to Heide's Tower. Multiple times throughout the game I had different options of where I wanted to go next which is what I think makes the progression feel more open than DaS1. But obviously the reason this ends happening is because you're able to teleport from the get-go. DaS1 having no teleportation until the second half means From had to be more creative and overlap levels much more strongly and as a result I think that's why DaS1 has better level design and is less linear than DaS2. So overall that's a bit of a plus and a minus on DaS2 part.

- With the exception of a handful of bosses, there weren't that many good ones and the best ones were in the DLC. I don't know all the changes from the vanilla release of the game, but just looking at the base game as it is, I can see how people walked away from DaS2 negatively and saw it as inferior to DaS1 and DeS.

- Narrative-wise, I felt more involved in this than DaS1. Not that I ever cared much for the lore and story of these games so take that as you will. Vendrick as that ultimate goal, and finding out what happened to him had a better sense of progression than DaS1's ring two bells, go here, and now collect four lord souls. However, that intro was terribly blunt and kind of awful for how vague the stories in these games are supposed to be. That said, the theme of obsession and of the curse of the Undead was pretty nifty and befitting of the game. It was melancholic to see characters forget where they even came from.

So, not a perfect game by any means, but I like it as much as Dark Souls 1. I'm moving on Dark Souls 3 now, but I'm definitely revisiting this game afterwards.
 
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