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From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963
That's an interesting proposition actually. What's the overall gameplan?
I shoot my twanger and roll so I don't get hit. It's all about finding when you can hit because you really lack stopping power. High damage per shot but you're not doing a 3 hit combo and rolling afterwards. Some enemies like dark wraiths become a real problem with their combos because you can't interrupt them reliably.

Going to the catacomb is also kind of suicide for people who don't know how Souls works. But in the end it's kind of nice how Souls logic often works in a normal crpg kind of logic. Of course you'd need holy damage to kill undead for sure, until you find out killing the necromancers has the same effect. Similarly, it makes sense that ghosts can't be hit normally. I don't think there's like outlandish loops of logic in that regard.
Souls games are at their heart, cheap Japanese imitations of the golden era of Western fantasy. Ghosts not being hit by magic swords (fire/lightning/holy) feels a bit off but it's an interesting area so it's fantasy logic breaks isn't a big problem.
 

Silverfish

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
3,928
Fair enough, but I also meant what's the crossbow you're ultimately planning on? I'm assuming heavy early on and Avelyn late game?
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963
Avelyn reloads faster but it chews through so much ammo and is easy to miss your shots with. I like the heavy more but it depends on the fight. If you need speed you want Avelyn but in general the stopping power and resource management of heavy is nicer.

Some bosses end up being really interesting.. or painful. Invisible enemies and no way to aim make the painted world a problem. Can't do a jumping attack to skip the dragon butt either. So it's the long way round.
 

ghostdog

Arcane
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Messages
11,158
So I'm replaying vanilla Dark Souls 2. I had played a bit of it in the past, but then started and finished the SOTFS version.

All and all I'm having a lot of fun, can't say it's a better game than SOFTS, but it's not worse either. And that's the big disappointment with Softs, that when you add it all, it didn't actually manage to be a better game than the original.

Vanilla seems easier, but also less frustrating. As far as I can tell, at least, since I haven't played softs for some years now.

Anyway, IMO it's a far better game than DSIII, which I have no desire to replay (without some huge remake mod at least).

I've been using axes and having a blast. Dual Wielding Bandit Axe and Battle Axe is pretty fun and kicks a lot of punch.
 

cvv

Arcane
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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Anyway, IMO it's a far better game than DSIII, which I have no desire to replay (without some huge remake mod at least).
I can't stand vanilla DS3 but I highly recommend the Convergence overhaul mod. Turns a barely average game into a great one (altho even that can't fix the shitty afterthought of a level design).
 

Max Damage

Savant
Joined
Mar 1, 2017
Messages
748
ZWPPaDz.png

I think Darklurker may be my new favorite dual boss of the series, it also feels refreshing that his sword combo is only long when it makes sense, the fight has very good flow overall.
 

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
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Apr 8, 2015
Messages
8,108
Location
Lusitânia
Darklurker
Imo one of the best bosses of From's Souls library
And they accomplished it, with something they've seem to mostly have forgotten - simplicity

His moveset isn't extensive and is even quite basic
But it covers all bases - he has short, medium and long range attacks, AoE, charge moves and projectiles
Then, just when the player thinks he's got the hang of him... boom a double
Some might say a copycat enemy is lazy, which admittedly is correct to an extent - but even in the context of 2 identical enemies, the devs still need to make sure the clone meshes well with the original
Which it does, as again his moveset is simple but varied, so they can close each others gaps and more importantly don't end up being overcomplicated for the player - also due because by the time the 2nd one appears, the player has had enough time to learn the particularities of the moveset
Additionally, the splitting itself is long enough to serve as short pause between in the action (another important element From has mostly left behind in favor of constant spazz shit), which the player can use to heal and buff himself, or punish the boss
The AI of the two also mix things ups well enough - some times one is in the back casting projectiles, while the other keeps the players attention at short range ; other times they're both up an close, keeping pressure ; and sometimes both use their charge attacks
It helps immensely that every move is well telegraphed and there's no animation gacha trickery bullshit, even the few new moves they might do in this 2nd phase are all pretty much variations on the base moveset

Overall, just a fun and straigthfoward boss fight, with clever use of assets and solid design
 
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SharkClub

Prophet
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Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
1,583
Strap Yourselves In
Vanilla seems easier, but also less frustrating. As far as I can tell, at least, since I haven't played softs for some years now.
The thing about vanilla is that it increases in difficulty the further you get in the game, you know, like a game should work. Scholar on the other hand is an inconsistent mess with random enemy placement and arbitrary changes that sometimes make an area easier and sometimes make an area harder. Vanilla was rushed but the areas were balanced for the game they are in and Scholar basically feels like a low effort official romhack similar to Master Quest for Zelda Ocarina of Time.

Shrine of Amana in vanilla is one of the hardest areas and is at the tail end of the game, in SOTFS Shrine of Amana got nerfed to be easier for some reason so it's actually way less hard than vanilla despite being a lategame area. Conversely, SOTFS peaks in difficulty at the beginning of the game, where Heide's Tower and No Man's Wharf are much harder than in vanilla, and then the game gradually becomes a cakewalk following that until Iron Keep where it's just randomly really hard again compared to vanilla. Retarded difficulty rollercoaster with enemy placement shuffled around rather than intelligently placed.
 

Hell Swarm

Learned
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Jun 16, 2023
Messages
2,144
The reason being people were crying and wailing and bitching about "artificial difficulty" almost as much as about LotF last year.
I liked Shrine but it was unfair. You couldn't see where the edges of the water was and you would have homing spells being slung at you from every angle. Often enemies covering each other. Would have been fine if you could see the edges of the path but you can't and that's a problem.

Scholar makes the boss run harder doesn't it? I think it adds more to the stone circle before the door leading to the fog gate.
 

SharkClub

Prophet
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Joined
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Messages
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Strap Yourselves In
Vanilla seems easier, but also less frustrating. As far as I can tell, at least, since I haven't played softs for some years now.
in SOTFS Shrine of Amana got nerfed to be easier for some reason
The reason being people were crying and wailing and bitching about "artificial difficulty" almost as much as about LotF last year.
This reasoning would make sense if not for the fact that the areas they made harder in SOTFS have just as much if not more bullshit than vanilla Shrine of Amana did. Why nerf the difficulty of one lategame area and then drastically buff the difficulty of two early game areas (Heide's Tower, No Man's Wharf) and a mid game area (Iron Keep)? Among other areas of course, but these are the ones that come to mind when thinking about the changes in SOTFS.

Also SOTFS moving all of the Heide Knights from being scattered around the game to all being located within Heide's Tower is completely soulless. One of my biggest problems with how that area is in Scholar. Thematically it always felt way cooler to find these guys hunched over on their asses in the middle of nowhere all across the game world than all just living in the ruins of their home. It kinda feels like whichever dev (I'm guessing it was a different person or people entirely) that was in charge of arbitrarily rearranging the enemies saw them in these areas and were like "huh, they're called Heide Knights, shouldn't they all be in Heide's Tower?" and completely misinterpreted the original level designer/enemy placement's intentions.
 
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Hell Swarm

Learned
Joined
Jun 16, 2023
Messages
2,144
Vanilla seems easier, but also less frustrating. As far as I can tell, at least, since I haven't played softs for some years now.
in SOTFS Shrine of Amana got nerfed to be easier for some reason
The reason being people were crying and wailing and bitching about "artificial difficulty" almost as much as about LotF last year.
This reasoning would make sense if not for the fact that the areas they made harder in SOTFS have just as much if not more bullshit than vanilla Shrine of Amana did. Why nerf the difficulty of one lategame area and then drastically buff the difficulty of two early game areas (Heide's Tower, No Man's Wharf) and a mid game area (Iron Keep)? Among other areas of course, but these are the ones that come to mind when thinking about the changes in SOTFS.

Also SOTFS moving all of the Heide Knights from being scattered around the game to all being located within Heide's Tower is completely soulless. One of my biggest problems with how that area is in Scholar. Thematically it always felt way cooler to find these guys hunched over on their asses in the middle of nowhere all across the game world than all just living in the ruins of their home. It kinda feels like whichever dev (I'm guessing it was a different person or people entirely) that was in charge of rearranging the enemies arbitrarily saw them in these areas and were like "huh, they're called Heide Knights, shouldn't they all be in Heide's Tower?" and completely misinterpreted the original level designer/enemy placement's intentions.
There's also enemies from Earthern peak in the castle for no actual reason. Executioner's chariot is now in the castle's main hall and none of it makes sense or has a reason to be.
 

Hell Swarm

Learned
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ghostdog

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Messages
11,158
Shrine of Amana in vanilla is one of the hardest areas and is at the tail end of the game, in SOTFS Shrine of Amana got nerfed to be easier for some reason so it's actually way less hard than vanilla despite being a lategame area
Is SOA really easier in softs? I remember it having many more enemies. I remember big old knights scattered all around apart from the mages and those white robed knights that guard them.
 
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SharkClub

Prophet
Patron
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
1,583
Strap Yourselves In
Shrine of Amana in vanilla is one of the hardest areas and is at the tail end of the game, in SOTFS Shrine of Amana got nerfed to be easier for some reason so it's actually way less hard than vanilla despite being a lategame area
Is SOA really harder in softs? I remember it having many more enemies. I remember big old knights scattered all around apart from the mages and those white robed knights that guard them.
It's easier in SOTFS, they nerfed the difficulty from vanilla. Dragon Shrine is also easier in Scholar than in vanilla.
 

cvv

Arcane
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Kingdom of Bohemia
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Release shrine is actually difficult, it got nerfed pretty early on with patches.
IIRC the only "difficulty" were the soul arrows. My theory is they were so ridiculous they must've been legit busted, that's why they patched them p. promptly. Apparently even if you dodged an arrow it would double back and hit you in your cheeks, just as you were engaged with a priestess. Yeah, a clear bork in my book.
 

Zlaja

Arcane
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Aug 17, 2006
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6,111
Location
Swedex
in SOTFS Shrine of Amana got nerfed to be easier for some reason
The reason being people were crying and wailing and bitching about "artificial difficulty" almost as much as about LotF last year.

People were also crying about the Lost Sinner bossfight being too hard, so she got nerfed to hell and back. Still butthurt about that. Nerfed her health, damage output, and made her slower so you could get in more hits easier. Turned one of the coolest bossfights in the game into a joke.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Messages
514
Vanilla seems easier, but also less frustrating. As far as I can tell, at least, since I haven't played softs for some years now.
The thing about vanilla is that it increases in difficulty the further you get in the game, you know, like a game should work. Scholar on the other hand is an inconsistent mess with random enemy placement and arbitrary changes that sometimes make an area easier and sometimes make an area harder. Vanilla was rushed but the areas were balanced for the game they are in and Scholar basically feels like a low effort official romhack similar to Master Quest for Zelda Ocarina of Time.

Shrine of Amana in vanilla is one of the hardest areas and is at the tail end of the game, in SOTFS Shrine of Amana got nerfed to be easier for some reason so it's actually way less hard than vanilla despite being a lategame area. Conversely, SOTFS peaks in difficulty at the beginning of the game, where Heide's Tower and No Man's Wharf are much harder than in vanilla, and then the game gradually becomes a cakewalk following that until Iron Keep where it's just randomly really hard again compared to vanilla. Retarded difficulty rollercoaster with enemy placement shuffled around rather than intelligently placed.
Not to mention insane amounts of enemy spam.

A room that previously contained 4 enemies now contains 20, all packed in like a clown car.

Because why bother tuning difficulty when you can just spam large numbers of enemies and overwhelm the player through pure bullshit?
 

Hell Swarm

Learned
Joined
Jun 16, 2023
Messages
2,144
in SOTFS Shrine of Amana got nerfed to be easier for some reason
The reason being people were crying and wailing and bitching about "artificial difficulty" almost as much as about LotF last year.

People were also crying about the Lost Sinner bossfight being too hard, so she got nerfed to hell and back. Still butthurt about that. Nerfed her health, damage output, and made her slower so you could get in more hits easier. Turned one of the coolest bossfights in the game into a joke.
Dark souls has a funny disconnect within the community. Day 1/unpatched From games are always really hard and full of bullshit so they build up a nasty reputation. After a year of patches they've nerfed pretty much every boss and toned down the totally broken weapons that carried scrubs through the ultra hard difficulty. Then Johnny come lately turns up, plays through Easy mode From game and acts like they've beaten the hardest game ever. It's fascinating.

You should try the Seeker of the fire mod if you want Lost Sinner back to her former glory. She's a real cunt in that mod and since the game is sped up the windows to hit her are far tighter.
Vanilla seems easier, but also less frustrating. As far as I can tell, at least, since I haven't played softs for some years now.
The thing about vanilla is that it increases in difficulty the further you get in the game, you know, like a game should work. Scholar on the other hand is an inconsistent mess with random enemy placement and arbitrary changes that sometimes make an area easier and sometimes make an area harder. Vanilla was rushed but the areas were balanced for the game they are in and Scholar basically feels like a low effort official romhack similar to Master Quest for Zelda Ocarina of Time.

Shrine of Amana in vanilla is one of the hardest areas and is at the tail end of the game, in SOTFS Shrine of Amana got nerfed to be easier for some reason so it's actually way less hard than vanilla despite being a lategame area. Conversely, SOTFS peaks in difficulty at the beginning of the game, where Heide's Tower and No Man's Wharf are much harder than in vanilla, and then the game gradually becomes a cakewalk following that until Iron Keep where it's just randomly really hard again compared to vanilla. Retarded difficulty rollercoaster with enemy placement shuffled around rather than intelligently placed.
Not to mention insane amounts of enemy spam.

A room that previously contained 4 enemies now contains 20, all packed in like a clown car.

Because why bother tuning difficulty when you can just spam large numbers of enemies and overwhelm the player through pure bullshit?
Sucks that scholar does that but it did fix the undead crypt's boss rush. Probably the worst gank squad in all of souls history, only balanced by enemy despawning.
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
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Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Sucks that scholar does that but it did fix the undead crypt's boss rush. Probably the worst gank squad in all of souls history, only balanced by enemy despawning.

DS2 and Scholar had some great moments. Like that motherfucker Maldron. :argh:
I think that's one of the only times I came close to raging in one of the games. I just wish I'd have thought to seed him. Fucker.
 

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