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The decline of the Elder Scrolls series

hakuroshi

Augur
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
589
Is it actually possible to kill Almalexia immediately after meeting her the first time?
Never tried it, but should be possible. Vivec is pretty much killable at any point of the game. The only exception I know is Dagoth Ur. This would break the quest line though - no Clockwork City and other stuff for you.
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
8,837
Tribunal's Clockwork City is possibly the laziest endgame in TES history.

Even Skyrim has better and larger climatic locations, such as the Vale where you find the Snow Elf prince.

The first two games in the series - they really pulled off their endgames. Afterwards, there has never been a good endgame in a TES game.

That has got to be the most pointless and boring area I have ever seen in a game. I eventually used the tcl command so I can travel faster to those shrines.
You actually liked that? o_O
 

Regvard

Arcane
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
1,070
Location
Gormenghast
Is it actually possible to kill Almalexia immediately after meeting her the first time?

You can but it breaks the quest line. Not a very task though (unless you cheese with pots, levitate, chameleon, leave the room etc) between "her hands" and stuff.

Almalexia:

Health 3000 Magicka 1500
 

Regvard

Arcane
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
1,070
Location
Gormenghast
you just have to wait some 10+ years more for TR to finish first.
Actually no, there is already available continent 10x the size of Vvanderfell ready for you to explore. The map is called Sacred East. In terms of questing, its not so hot, but its an opportunity to mod it some more ( tack quests of your own yo ). The quality of design is far above the original game. There are several cool places to visit, like Necrom mausoleums, featuring Death guard Ordinators ( my fav ), cities, dungeons, villages and more. Imma not spoilin more.

This. Just avoid southernmost cells and you'll be fine. I hope TR gets included in Graphics Overhaul though. Custom armors etc. look shitty compared to replaced Morrowind textures.
 
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
6,068
Location
Digger Nick
Tamriel Rebuilt FAQ

So far, Oblivion is the most unique and farthest away from the traditional role-playing world with its very rich lore, unlike anything seen in a game developed exclusively for computers and consoles.
Oblivion, the latest title in the Elder Scrolls series, goes beyond the bounds of all previous games conceived.
:lol: not sure whether to check it out as such...
 

madrigal

Augur
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
249
Is there a good commerce mod for morrowind?

I was going to try out the overhaul mod but it is kind of pointless when an orc can waltz into a vendor and buy stuff and then sell it straight back for more money than it was bought for and then go buy levelups.

Is this why the codex loves morrowind so much, because all the game mechanics are broken so you are forced to larp.
 

Hollywood

Educated
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
57
Location
The Britannia System
Can't wait to see how Skyrim Dragonborn DLC will turn Bloodmoon's awesome multipathed dungeons like Frossel and Bloodskal Barrow into BSB linear crap. :decline:

I like Bloodmoon. More so than Tribunal.

I like werewolves. I liked Bloodmoon's take on werewolves.

They really fucked-up the preternatural element of the Elder Scrolls when they limited you to goring crazed White men in fur skins (ahhh, White people) in order splash their blood on your eyeball so that you could become one (yeah, it was that painful to become a werewolf -- at least becoming a vampire only required you getting it on your fucking epidermis in comparison) and THEN they don't even bother including some sort of quest structure or a faction of some kind which provided some sense of being part of something bigger like the vampiric Clans so that you had somewhere to get work from, supplies or rest.

And don't get me started on the whole "some Nord saw you taking a shit in the woods and now everyone knows that you defenestrate your bowels in woodland" approach to supernatural anonymity...

Oblivion on the other hand literally disgusts me with how retarded it looks

I tried playing it a few months back (with added damage mods for non-HP-bloat-like Saturday night fights -- they worked a charm, by the way just because I felt like playing it.

I shit you not, right out of prologue dungeon, I'm hit with a viscera of bright, sickly, warm colours that make my eyes hurt and stomach feel like keelhauling. I don't know what it was, maybe it's because the last time I played it was half-a-decade ago and my eyes could take it or something like that, 'cause I played the shit out of that game before and made Mankar Cameron fucking cry with my Nightblade character tormeting him and his progeny with Mysticism and Illusion and shit and I had never experienced that horrible feeling all that time ago.

No problem with the music, though. It's boss. Jeremy Soule is a fucking legend. May the Great Symphony above reserved a special place for him -- he's earned it more than once.

Anyway, what was I gonna say next? Oh yes: is Daggerfell and Arena actually not as good as people want to remember it being? I wouldn't know: I was too busy playing Lands of Lore III (woo, GOG.com!) to find out. Seriously though, are they good games?
 

madrigal

Augur
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
249
Piratelord's Trading Enhancements or Hotfusion's Economy Adjuster were the best ones I've tried.

I just tried the Economy Adjuster and it reduces the margins but it still allows buying items and selling them back for a profit, even at low level mercantile.
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
Interesting. He argues that the game and setting is dumbed down more, yet to me Skyrim seems like an improvement over Oblivion. However, I did not play Oblivion so hell if I know.

I don't care about the setting nor the past games anywhere near as much as this person (seemingly) does, or others here for that matter. Morrowind wasn't all that enjoyable to me, either. In terms of exploration in games the Gothics just always did it better IMO and had a lot of things going on that the TES games often wish they could achieve. Being a thief in Gothic 1 or 2 was actually a thing, fun, exciting, and had the potential for major payoffs or punishment. In TES it just kind of... sucks. On paper the classic mage/thief combo seems so viable and yet when you actually try to make it you quickly find yourself resorting to over-head bashes to get the job done.

Eh, whatever. Sucks that someone's unhappy, or something.
 

Broseph

Dangerous JB
Patron
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
4,449
Location
Globohomo Gayplex
I was browsing the site "Gather Your Party" and found this article ( http://www.gatheryourparty.com/articles/2012/10/16/the-elder-scrolls-and-their-fans-part-i/ ).

Thought I'd share it here.

Interesting read. Comments section is surprisingly :incline: ...for the most part.

Stupid dipshit said:
I would just like to point out that I utterly disagree with almost all of these opinions, including those of the article’s author. Not the thing about online play. I couldn’t care less about that. But the setting! You might say it was “dumbed down” to attract a bigger audience. Maybe it was even that Bethesda’s plan for TES. But, let’s look at it another angle. Morrowind is ulgy as sin (it was pretty in the old days, granted, but we are not in the old days any longer). There’s little to no voice acting (and I do love good voice acting. Can’t say that it is great in later games, but it improved. A lot. A real lot). The fact that Morrowind is based in an “alien” and original setting doesn’t make it better. Or maybe it does, but just for those who have already spent thousands of hours playing typical fantasy games and are eager for something new. I don’t spend thousands of hours playing games, much less fantasy. I wasn’t thirsting for something new. I find chitinous creatures and giant mushrooms deeply displeasing, and the “alien” atmosphere doesn’t appeal to my sense of aesthetics. It is ugly, even with improved graphic mods. About the narrative, the same thing applies. I don’t want to have to decipher, decode or whatever. This is supposed to be a role playing game, not a puzzle adventure. Do Oblivon and Skyrim lack in mature themes? Yes they do. Are they “dumbed down” because their puzzles and combat are easier? No, they are not. Role playing games is about exploring, interacting with NPCs and the environment, interpreting a character (in the way you can “interpret a character” in a computer game, of course). So, about the lore. It was more complex and weird and it was made simpler in Oblivion and Skyrim? It’s not a great move, because it destroys coherence, but on the other hand, most people don’t really memorize all the lore, so most are (probably) unconsciously thankful for Skyrim having a simpler and less weird lore. When I want weird and complex I watch a David Lynch movie, read Kafka, I don’t play a role playing game. The same applies to the less verbose dialogues and narrative. I would rather have shorter dialogues, but voice acted (they aren’t less profound because of that), and I don’t like spending an entire afternoon reading an in-game book about whatever theme it is. If I wish to read a book, I can do it in real like, in games book/note/diary entries should be short and meaningful, not long and boring. People who write computer game stories aren’t writers, neither they are supposed to be. They are paid to write compelling, immersive interactive stories, and not literature. All this said, I would love to love Morrowind, as it must have a lot of hidden treasures, precious secrets and wonderful side stories. But for me it will always be an ugly game, with characters who move with limps, with ugly backgrounds, almost no voice acting, not much music either, and where, once, I tried to play a Nord barbarian, born under the sign of the Warrior, strong and bold, and was beaten to a pulp in hand-to-hand combat by and elderly wood elf store owner (why did I try to beat her up? Just to test how stupid it would be If I lost. And I did).

:x :x :x

:what: :declining:





 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
Hahahahahaha, the very voice of the decline itself. Wondrous.
 

Broseph

Dangerous JB
Patron
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
4,449
Location
Globohomo Gayplex
I was browsing the site "Gather Your Party" and found this article ( http://www.gatheryourparty.com/articles/2012/10/16/the-elder-scrolls-and-their-fans-part-i/ ).

Thought I'd share it here.

I don't understand the complain about no online play. They got that with Skyrim. :troll:

J4ndX.jpg
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
Every time someone starts the sentence with "Roleplaying games about about...", I want to kill shit.
 

Akasen

Augur
Patron
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
280
Location
The Magicians Lair
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
I didn't even see that guys post at all. From what I can tell from what you describe, his posts would make all fluids in my body boil. What's he done? Proclaim Oblivion to be the epitome of game design despite jarring flaws?
 

Broseph

Dangerous JB
Patron
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
4,449
Location
Globohomo Gayplex
Stupid dipshit said:
The last thing on my mind is that games should be shallow and meaningless. I don’t think Morrowind is deeper and with more meaning than Skyrim (more than Oblivion, yes, not Skyrim). It just appears so because it is an old game, with old graphics, with less voice acting, because it was cheaper that way, and by that time people weren’t really used to voice acting anyway, and strange and bizarre environments.

You heard it first, folks. Morrowind isn't deeper than Skyrim, it just seems that way because it's an older game. :troll:
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,972
Can't wait to see how Skyrim Dragonborn DLC will turn Bloodmoon's awesome multipathed dungeons like Frossel and Bloodskal Barrow into BSB linear crap. :decline:

I like Bloodmoon. More so than Tribunal.

I like werewolves. I liked Bloodmoon's take on werewolves.

They really fucked-up the preternatural element of the Elder Scrolls when they limited you to goring crazed White men in fur skins (ahhh, White people) in order splash their blood on your eyeball so that you could become one (yeah, it was that painful to become a werewolf -- at least becoming a vampire only required you getting it on your fucking epidermis in comparison) and THEN they don't even bother including some sort of quest structure or a faction of some kind which provided some sense of being part of something bigger like the vampiric Clans so that you had somewhere to get work from, supplies or rest.

And don't get me started on the whole "some Nord saw you taking a shit in the woods and now everyone knows that you defenestrate your bowels in woodland" approach to supernatural anonymity...

Oblivion on the other hand literally disgusts me with how retarded it looks

I tried playing it a few months back (with added damage mods for non-HP-bloat-like Saturday night fights -- they worked a charm, by the way just because I felt like playing it.

I shit you not, right out of prologue dungeon, I'm hit with a viscera of bright, sickly, warm colours that make my eyes hurt and stomach feel like keelhauling. I don't know what it was, maybe it's because the last time I played it was half-a-decade ago and my eyes could take it or something like that, 'cause I played the shit out of that game before and made Mankar Cameron fucking cry with my Nightblade character tormeting him and his progeny with Mysticism and Illusion and shit and I had never experienced that horrible feeling all that time ago.

No problem with the music, though. It's boss. Jeremy Soule is a fucking legend. May the Great Symphony above reserved a special place for him -- he's earned it more than once.

Anyway, what was I gonna say next? Oh yes: is Daggerfell and Arena actually not as good as people want to remember it being? I wouldn't know: I was too busy playing Lands of Lore III (woo, GOG.com!) to find out. Seriously though, are they good games?

Daggerfall:

It really depends on what you can stomach in terms of art and graphics after all these years, and what you're expecting. If you're okay with a world that is literally random-generated (before they polished it up), or even like the idea, it's great fun. Rather than try to critique it normally, I'll just cite some of my favorite things about it that stand out compared to the later games, and let you decide if it gets you interested.

Quests have multiple, randomly-allocated endings. This happens on many quests, but there's one in particular I always remember where you're investigating someone who is allegedly possessed by a spirit of some sort. The church sends you to investigate. There's an ending where the possessed kid turns out to be faking it for the attention & possibly money, which I at first thought was just the normal, linear ending of the quest. The second time I did the quest, however, the kid turned out to be actually possessed by a demon. This does a *lot* to punch up the otherwise randomly-generated identikit world, because quests also have random locations, so the "same" quest in town B may not end the same as it did in Town A.

The character creation system is awesome. Highly exploitable, but awesome. In addition to neat little touches like the usual derpery of "you don't know how to play the game, here's a fucking automatic chargen" being bundled as a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure where you're asked about what you did in your childhood to determine your type of character (which Bethesda later simplified down to "PICK A CLASS RETARD"), you have...

Disadvantages & Advantages. Examples include being allergic to sunlight and holy places (this includes every church in the game where quests are handed out), regenerating health while in water, immunity to disease, etc. It's all highly customizable, and for a lot of people the best part of the game.

If you play with some minor console-commands, the game is actually not tedious/noticeably buggy at all. This is one of the things that has to be said about the game. The patches fixed a ton of issues with the game and it's generally stable and worthwhile, but the dungeons are still absurdly huge and sometimes don't even have portions connected. This is where the Teleport To Next Quest Location In Dungeon command hotkey comes in handy. I don't really consider it very cheat-y since you still fight plenty of monsters, can explore dungeons all you like aside from it, and will do dozens upon dozens of dungeons in any playthrough. I don't remember the exact hotkey, but it really makes questlines and the game experience in general a lot smoother and less hair-tearing. I don't reccomend it for your first time through a dungeon, but on repeats its a damned lifesaver.

It's got that mid-90's DOS vibe of "We Don't Give a Fuck, ESRB hasn't even been invented yet." (I'm probably wrong on the ESRB bit.) The topless characters in churches for no reason in an otherwise completely asexual game kind of ooze this feeling. The awesomeness of the books reinforce this (a lot of the best books from later iterations of the series are direct copies or rewrites of these ones). If you are at all curious about the history of Elder Scrolls, you really need to play Daggerfall. It is a pre-Todd-Howard-era Bethesda, and it's easy to misunderstand the series if you labor under the impression that Morrowind is simply a further dumbing-down of the same formulae by the same people. It isn't. It's more akin to Diablo 3: an outside team who came in and tried to remake a classic in their own, shitty image.

ETA:

Spellmaker. How the fuck did I forget this? The fact I forgot one of the most amazing features of the earlier games tells me I need to go back and play them, pronto. Yeah, you could make spells. They said Cya to this in Oblivion and Skyrim. It was in Morrowind, but I seem to recall it being less flexible in some ways. This was basically the shit of mage-thief fantasies in the 90's. Getting a Jump/Fly spell, then fleeing from the guards from rooftop to rooftop in Daggerfall's ginormous capital cities.
 

madrigal

Augur
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
249
Spellmaker. How the fuck did I forget this? The fact I forgot one of the most amazing features of the earlier games tells me I need to go back and play them, pronto. Yeah, you could make spells. They said Cya to this in Oblivion and Skyrim. It was in Morrowind, but I seem to recall it being less flexible in some ways. This was basically the shit of mage-thief fantasies in the 90's. Getting a Jump/Fly spell, then fleeing from the guards from rooftop to rooftop in Daggerfall's ginormous capital cities.

Spellmaker was in all the games except skyrim.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,972
Spellmaker. How the fuck did I forget this? The fact I forgot one of the most amazing features of the earlier games tells me I need to go back and play them, pronto. Yeah, you could make spells. They said Cya to this in Oblivion and Skyrim. It was in Morrowind, but I seem to recall it being less flexible in some ways. This was basically the shit of mage-thief fantasies in the 90's. Getting a Jump/Fly spell, then fleeing from the guards from rooftop to rooftop in Daggerfall's ginormous capital cities.

Spellmaker was in all the games except skyrim.

Oh, you're right. I was misremembering--what they did in Oblivion was take away Z-axis-enabling spells (i.e flight, jumping). I'm pretty sure it's been scaled back in usefulness with every iteration, though.
 

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