1eyedking The defining core of RPGs

[Mr. Hiver]

Well no, those are your hallucinations.
In your first post you wrote several incorrect, cheap and superficial proclamations - that you cannot explain, or understand.
And if you read what i wrote, well... you couldn't understand that either being so hilariously fucking stupid, but lets imagine you can read AND understand, you would see why games simply having stats doesn't mean anything.

Because if "stats decide results of all actions" was the defining feature of RPGs, then Doom would also be an RPG.
And any other game ever made. Because all games have stats that decide all actions, including shooting from FP.
You laughable ignorant shit.

your question "what is a RPG/ what makes it a distinguishable genre?" has been answered multiple times: take a look at D&D for PnP and at Wizardry/Pool of Radiance for computer!
that's it! these games are true RPGs and everything they feature is that what makes a RPG different from every other genre.

Which is.... what exactly?
Everything? lol, so ... the pixels? characters? combat? visual art? enemies? weapons? some kind of a story?
What?

and calling storyfag god Avellone for help in your first post is really pathetic.

Lol. I didnt call Avellone "for help" you dumb hysterical shit, i was just letting him know. I dont expect him to answer nor do i give a fuck what a exploding bucket of shit like you hallucinates about it.

"storyfag god" too? I guess you say that from position of authority, haha.

you knew you would get your ass handed by people who know what a RPG is

Ahahaha.... wait, you live in delusions you are one of those "people" arent you, newfag?
lolcopter!

But you have no idea, all you posted is dumb nonsense that makes all games RPGs. And some posters to bloat under.

/thread

Third times the charm! :D

 

[mondblut]

Mondblut, you are just as dumb as ever. Zero xp gained and still on lvl 1. Kindly just fuck off too.

Urmom.

i.e what the fuck was it about Wizardry that made it establish and influence the creation of a whole distinct genre?

It copied D&D on a computer, dumbo.

and we sure as fuck dont play endless exact copies of wizardry either, moron.

Because their designers are incompetent yet full of themselves.

 

[Tweed]

Well no, those are your dumbfuck halucinations.
In your first post you wrote several incorrect, cheap and superficial proclamations - that you cannot explain, or understand.
And if you read what i wrote, well... you couldn't understand that either being so hilariously fucking stupid, but lets imagine you can read AND understand, you would see why games simply having stats doesn't mean anything.

Because if "stats decide results of all actions" was the defining feature of RPGs, then Doom would also be an RPG.

Ok, I'll bite. You're going to need to explain this one to me, what stats does Doom have? And don't just say weapons, hit points, or ammunition count as stats because you can hand a lousy player every gun in the game and a supercharge and they'll still get themselves killed.

 

[Martyr]

this thread is hilarious!

Because if "stats decide results of all actions" was the defining feature of RPGs, then Doom would also be an RPG.
And any other game ever made. Because all games have stats that decide all actions, including shooting from FP.
You laughable ignorant shit.

yeah, Doom huh ...
a medkit stays a medkit, a shotgun stays a shotgun. doesn't matter if there are varying types of medkits and shotguns in Doom/ shooters in general. that's just like going from a longsword to a longsword+1. what matters are your characters (plural) stats.

your question "what is a RPG/ what makes it a distinguishable genre?" has been answered multiple times: take a look at D&D for PnP and at Wizardry/Pool of Radiance for computer!
that's it! these games are true RPGs and everything they feature is that what makes a RPG different from every other genre.

Which is.... what exactly? You laughable low cretin.
Everything? lol, so ... the pixels? characters? combat? visual art? enemies? weapons? some kind of a story?
What?

not sure if I should even answer to that. try playing one of the RPGs that I've mentioned. first you're creating a party of characters. by that I don't mean that you control their boob size or that you paint their hair blue, nope. I mean stats, like strength.
having 18 strength and a flaming lava broadsword+2 has a different outcome in attacks than having 11 strength with a rusty dagger.
but yeah, of course you're right about the pixels too.

you knew you would get your ass handed by people who know what a RPG is

Ahahaha.... wait, you live in delusions you are one of those "people" arent you, newfag?

certainly more so than you, fag.

/thread

Third times the charm! :D

/thread

 

[Mr. Hiver]

what matters are your characters (plural) stats.

Thats what i said, only i explained why too, shit for brains.
You have no idea how and why that actually works.

In Doom the Space marine also has stats. Specific defined stats that regulate every move, everything you can do with him. Your aiming is regulated by specific "stats", the speed of pulling the trigger is regaulted by specific stats, damage done by stats of weapons and enemies. And the same goes for every game in existence.

more,

that's just like going from a longsword to a longsword+1. what matters are your characters (plural) stats.

versus:

having 18 strength and a flaming lava broadsword+2 has a different outcome in attacks than having 11 strength with a rusty dagger.

You just defeated your previous statement, sony.

certainly more so than you, fag.

obviously
Somewhere in that shriveled retarded asshole in your head.

this thread is hilarious!

Thats almost one of my favorite things, when imbeciles get so desperate while they punch themselves in the face.

Oh and, i actually expected Chris to disagree, if he would answer, because in several latest interviews he named options and C&C as defining features. And thats sama Chris Avellone to you, newfag.

 

[thesheeep]

This is indeed hilarious.
For a moment I thought this Mr. Hiver was serious. But the way he pretends to not understand what an actual stat is vs what is just a variable in programming kinda gives it away.

Still, A for effort.
Also, reported for retardation/funny harvesting.

 

[Martyr]

what matters are your characters (plural) stats.

Thats what i said, only i explained why too, shit for brains.
You have no idea how and why that actually works.

In Doom the Space marine also has stats. Specific defined stats that regulate every move, everything you can do with him. Your aiming is regulated by specific "stats", the speed of pulling the trigger is regaulted by specific stats, damage done by stats of weapons and enemies. And the same goes for every game in existence.

more,

that's just like going from a longsword to a longsword+1. what matters are your characters (plural) stats.

versus:

having 18 strength and a flaming lava broadsword+2 has a different outcome in attacks than having 11 strength with a rusty dagger.

You just defeated your previous statement, sony.

certainly more so than you, fag.

obviously
Somewhere in that shriveled retarded asshole in your head.

this thread is hilarious!

Thats almost one of my favorite things, when imbeciles get so desperate while they punch themselves in the face.

Oh and, i actually expected Chris to disagree, if he would answer, because in several latest interviews he named options and C&C as defining features. And thats sama Chris Avellone to you, newfag.

lol so this

is the same as Doom Marine's running, aiming and pulling triggers.



also how did I defeat my previous statement?
I said:
- Doom is going from pistol to shotgun
- a RPG is going from a low stat to a higher stat PLUS going from dagger to longsword

how the fuck is that the same thing?
you can't argue for shit, mate.

 

[Mr. Hiver]

Ahh, talking to imbecile who cant even understand what they are saying themselves...

Look retard, in your first statement you said that only character stats matter but not the weapon stats.
In your other statement you provided a direct example how both matter.

is the same as Doom Marine's running, aiming and pulling triggers.

No, its not the same, moron. Thats the point.
Space marine has stats only you dont see them, (the whole game is build out of different stats) and that character has stats. Whats the difference?

 

[Martyr]

Ahh, talking to imbecile who cant even understand what they are saying themselves...

Look retard, in your first statement you said that only character stats matter but not the weapon stats.
In your other statement you provided a direct example how both matter.

no, I said that, quote: "stats decide the outcome of every action."
NOT "only character stats (not weapon stats!!!) decide the outcome".

 

[Martyr]

Ahh, talking to imbecile who cant even understand what they are saying themselves...

Look retard, in your first statement you said that only character stats matter but not the weapon stats.
In your other statement you provided a direct example how both matter.

is the same as Doom Marine's running, aiming and pulling triggers.

No, its not the same, moron. Thats the point.
Space marine has stats only you dont see them, (the whole game is build out of different stats) and that character has stats. Whats the difference?

also, "what's the difference"? sarisely?
in a RPG you level up (= increase stats through gained XP). I've never leveled up in Doom before.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Ahh, talking to imbecile who cant even understand what they are saying themselves...

Look retard, in your first statement you said that only character stats matter but not the weapon stats.
In your other statement you provided a direct example how both matter.

is the same as Doom Marine's running, aiming and pulling triggers.

No, its not the same, moron. Thats the point.
Space marine has stats only you dont see them, (the whole game is build out of different stats) and that character has stats. Whats the difference?

also, "what's the difference"? sarisely?
in a RPG you level up. I've never leveled up in Doom before.

 

[Tweed]

In Doom the Space marine also has stats. Specific defined stats that regulate every move, everything you can do with him. Your aiming is regulated by specific "stats", the speed of pulling the trigger is regaulted by specific stats, damage done by stats of weapons and enemies. And the same goes for every game in existence.

The difference is that there's no possible way to change those stats outside of their pre-defined perimeters. Doomguy can't grind imps to get strong enough to facetank a Baron, he can't gain any special skills to overcome one. The outcome is almost entirely determined by individual player skill rather than a result of stats.

 

[Mr. Hiver]

no, I said that, quote: "stats decide the outcome of every action."

I didnt mean the very first thing you said.

I was talking about your last post and the fucking sentences i quoted - to which you were replying to, moron.

NOT "only character stats (not weapon stats!!!) decide the outcome".

quoting you again:

that's just like going from a longsword to a longsword+1. what matters are your characters (plural) stats.

youre fading away.

also, "what's the difference"? sarisely?
in a RPG you level up (= increase stats through gained XP). I've never leveled up in Doom before.

Bravo! Applause! Woooo, almost there!
Just those few synapses more to light up and we can make it!
So, there is a difference between how stats work in an rpg and how they work in some other game? Riiiiight?

The difference is that there's no possible way to change those stats outside of their pre-defined perimeters. Doomguy can't grind imps to get strong enough to facetank a Baron, he can't gain any special skills to overcome one. The outcome is almost entirely determined by individual player skill rather than a result of stats.

Yeees, thats one obvious difference, But there is more. think! Im sure you can.... what do the stats exactly do in an RPG?
Make you stronger, smarter, faster, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight?

Which means..... without those .... improvements.....

 

[Mr. Hiver]

Cmon morons, i believe in you!

You can make it! Dont give up now!

Oh, i almost forgot;

you can't argue for shit, mate.

You are so right Marty! If only i could argue like you do!
If i was only able to not understand written words and hallucinate what others are saying AND really thinking while being completely incapable of changing my mind!

That would be so wonderful Marty, i would win every argument! Just like you!


Look, ill help you a bit more cos i see youre struggling, ...

Why do you need character stats anyway?
What happens when you dont have them? Eh?

 

[Tweed]

Yeees, thats one obvious difference, But there is more. think! Im sure you can.... what do the stats exactly do in an RPG?

They pad the game out.

Which means..... without those .... improvements.....

You can cut right to the ending and then you'll feel like you wasted sixty dollars! What do I win?

 

[Mr. Hiver]

No... they impose limits on what you as a player can do - with that character stats, skills or whatever else defines him and limits his options, and so force you to play through that character.
Those same limits create many different options, or choices - and their corresponding consequences.
And they provide the whole structure of that specific RPG gameplay where you evolve your character abilities and enhance them through equipment, so you can solve the next limit - quest, task, enemy, etc.

Which is what i already said in the Op.

Wanna go for another round?

Spoiler

 

[c2007]

Please return OPs meds.

Thread had a chance for entertainment value, but this volume of autistic retardation is too much.

 

[Sigourn]

RPGs:

• Wizardry
• Pool of Radiance
  
• Fallout
• Deus Ex
• Dark Souls

Poor RPGs, but RPGs nonetheless:

• Skyrim: stats influence your skills and there's some way to express your character in quests, but fairly limited.
  
• Dragon Quest: stats influence your skills but quest choice is practically non-existant, the game is very linear when it comes to character development and may as well be a Legend of Zelda game and the game would have been better because of it.

Not RPGs:

• Doom: no character creation or progression, only accumulating equipment.
  
• Zelda: no character creation, only accumulating equipment and specific power-ups.
  
• Pong: no character creation or progression, you end the game as you begin it.
  
• Pac-Man: no character creation or progression, you end the game as you begin it.
• Castlevania: Symphony of the Night: no character creation; character progression is entirely linear. Not an RPG: level ups don't express your character.

To me it is impossible to conceive the idea of an RPG without stats or skills of some sort. An RPG that relies solely on dialogue choices is not an RPG but a CYOA. In an RPG, a gay character is gay all the time (Confirmed Bachelor Perk in New Vegas). In a CYOA, a gay character is gay after you have hmi say "hey, I'm gay".

For me, an RPG needs to let you define a character/group of characters through their skills. This is either achieved with:

• Character creation.
• Some sort of progression mechanic that still lets you individualize your character by forcing you to choose (as opposed to "pick up the 10 power-ups and max out your character").

I disagree with the idea that a roleplaying game can only be something like Pool of Radiance or Fallout. As long as existing character stats affect the way your character plays, it is an RPG. This is different than something like Doom or Quake: one could say "those games play different and you could say Doomguy is a different character than Quakeguy", but we have to judge games in a vacuum. Doomguy will always play the same; Quakeguy will always play the same.

 

[ManaJunkie]

 

[Tweed]

The Achilles' Heel to this whole argument is the level scaling RPG, what good are stats if every encounter is automatically adjusted to be just within whatever stats you've chosen so you can overcome it with a minimal amount of tactics? Go anywhere, do anything, everything is leveled to be beatable.

 

[Sigourn]

C&C is the thing that turns a game into an RPG.
Take any game, slap C&C onto it = voila, you got an RPG. No matter how shitty the game is, now it's an RPG.
Convince me otherwise.
PS. In before some retardo posts "different way to shoot/stab is an example of C&C".

I also agree with this general sentiment: like I explained earlier, you must be able to craft a character of your own. That alone means "choice & consequence": I decide to create this character and live with it, or I decide to advance this character this way and live with it.
There's no "living with it" in a game like Zelda, because you are expected to pick up everything.

 

[octavius]

 

[JarlFrank]

Space marine has stats only you dont see them, (the whole game is build out of different stats) and that character has stats. Whats the difference?

Doomguy has a max health of 100 (200 with bonus health items like the flasks and soulsphere), does a fixed amount of damage with each weapon, has a fixed movement speed and fixed melee damage.

You can't create different Doomguys, every player plays the same Doomguy. You can't create a Doomguy with 20 less HP but twice the speed, for example.
You also don't level up your Doomguy. His stats stay the same throughout the game. Max health is always 100/200, every weapon's damage and effects stay the same from the moment you pick it up to the end of the game, your movement speed stays the same.

That's the difference.

Doom RL however is an RPG because everyone plays a different Doomguy.

 

[Ninjerk]

I missed Hiver threads.

 

[Mr. Hiver]

To me it is impossible to conceive the idea of an RPG without stats or skills of some sort. An RPG that relies solely on dialogue choices is not an RPG but a CYOA. In an RPG, a gay character is gay all the time (Confirmed Bachelor Perk in New Vegas). In a CYOA, a gay character is gay after you have hmi say "hey, I'm gay".

For me, an RPG needs to let you define a character/group of characters through their skills. This is either achieved with:

• Character creation.
• Some sort of progression mechanic that still lets you individualize your character by forcing you to choose (as opposed to "pick up the 10 power-ups and max out your character").

I disagree with the idea that a roleplaying game can only be something like Pool of Radiance or Fallout. As long as existing character stats affect the way your character plays, it is an RPG. This is different than something like Doom or Quake: one could say "those games play different and you could say Doomguy is a different character than Quakeguy", but we have to judge games in a vacuum. Doomguy will always play the same; Quakeguy will always play the same.

Exactly Sigourn, exactly.
And what gives you ability to have character creation and progression? And creates a role to play? And different C&C? Just stats and skills... or stats and skills that work in a specific way?

The Achilles' Heel to this whole argument is the level scaling RPG, what good are stats if every encounter is automatically adjusted to be just within whatever stats you've chosen so you can overcome it with a minimal amount of tactics? Go anywhere, do anything, everything is leveled to be beatable.

You only need to read the OP to see that is also accounted for.

hint, hybrids and abominations?
maybe,... you can ask someone to read it for you.


JarlFrank

No Frank, although those things are different its not THE difference.
The real difference is the obvious one. Its your own twitch skills that directly influence great majority of gameplay and content in Doom. While in a True RPG it is the character abilities that have the biggest influence on the gameplay options while you as a player have to change and evolve them and make various strategic and meta decisions on how to proceed and what options to choose from, from those available to your character.
My point is that its not enough to just have stats and skills, but that they have to work in a specific way.